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lakersken80
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 Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Dodgers will overpay for him and he'll get hurt and never live up to his contract....like all the other ex-Giants we signed in the past. |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Dodgers will overpay for him and he'll get hurt and never live up to his contract....like all the other ex-Giants we signed in the past. |
I actually wouldn't mind him sucking in the regular season if it meant we had clutch Bum in the post season  But who knows. We might just end up with Ryu again. I hate Scott Boras!
Side: I read that we were in the ballpark of the Yankees offer. I wonder how far apart :\ |
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greenfrog
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Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Quote: | | Verducci claims Dodgers were "in the same ballpark" as the Yankees. Dodgers now looking to pivot to...Madison Bumgarner. |
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Ugh, that country trash. |
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DuncanIdaho
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 17262
Location: In a no-ship
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Time for 2020 thread with the hot stove going on? |
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LonzoLegend2
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Joined: 05 Aug 2017
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:13 am Post subject: |
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Would be awesome if Muncy and Madbum have to share the same clubhouse after past season's splash landing incident.
Last edited by LonzoLegend2 on Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ChickenStu
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Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Can't even believe we're considering Bumgarner. Another ace would've been very useful, but we have no use for a mid-rotation starter, and that's what Bumgarner is now. There is absolutely no reason to shell out big bucks for him. The Angels, now that's a different story. But not the Dodgers.
If we sign him, I'm convinced that Friedman is not cut out to run a team with a gigantic budget. |
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LonzoLegend2
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| So do we prefer to overpay for Ryu or Mad Bum? Not seeing any aces left in the market now so desperate times call for desperate measures. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| LonzoLegend2 wrote: | | So do we prefer to overpay for Ryu or Mad Bum? Not seeing any aces left in the market now so desperate times call for desperate measures. |
Ryu has more injury questions but has pitched vastly better than MadBum over the last 2 seasons, and he's also going to be much cheaper. Not even a question for me that I'd rather have Ryu back, of those two options. If we're going to spend big, I'd prefer it to be on Rendon or even Donaldson. Or, of course, we can still go the trade route. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| LonzoLegend2 wrote: | | So do we prefer to overpay for Ryu or Mad Bum? Not seeing any aces left in the market now so desperate times call for desperate measures. |
I would think Ryu because he has been much better in recent years, and I am guessing he will only require a 2-3 year deal. |
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ribeye
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Joined: 10 Nov 2001
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | LonzoLegend2 wrote: | | So do we prefer to overpay for Ryu or Mad Bum? Not seeing any aces left in the market now so desperate times call for desperate measures. |
I would think Ryu because he has been much better in recent years, and I am guessing he will only require a 2-3 year deal. |
Whatever seems right, it will always be more. I expect $75M/4 or $60M/3 or more. The Dodgers have treated Ryu fairly (unlike Maeda), and have not always got their money's worth, so one could hope for a slight discount. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | LonzoLegend2 wrote: | | So do we prefer to overpay for Ryu or Mad Bum? Not seeing any aces left in the market now so desperate times call for desperate measures. |
I would think Ryu because he has been much better in recent years, and I am guessing he will only require a 2-3 year deal. |
Whatever seems right, it will always be more. I expect $75M/4 or $60M/3 or more. The Dodgers have treated Ryu fairly (unlike Maeda), and have not always got their money's worth, so one could hope for a slight discount. |
I thought the Dodgers already got the discount last year when Ryu accepted the QO and gave them a Cy Young worthy year?
The Dodgers paid Ryu a total of $53.9M for 7 years and got 4 really good years out of it.
125 starts at a 2.98 ERA for $53.9M
That's a pretty fair deal |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | LonzoLegend2 wrote: | | So do we prefer to overpay for Ryu or Mad Bum? Not seeing any aces left in the market now so desperate times call for desperate measures. |
I would think Ryu because he has been much better in recent years, and I am guessing he will only require a 2-3 year deal. |
Whatever seems right, it will always be more. I expect $75M/4 or $60M/3 or more. The Dodgers have treated Ryu fairly (unlike Maeda), and have not always got their money's worth, so one could hope for a slight discount. |
I thought the Dodgers already got the discount last year when Ryu accepted the QO and gave them a Cy Young worthy year?
The Dodgers paid Ryu a total of $53.9M for 7 years and got 4 really good years out of it.
125 starts at a 2.98 ERA for $53.9M
That's a pretty fair deal |
Maybe overall, but 2016 - 2018, he was 12-13, with a 3.24 ERA in 213 2/3 innings, or about one above average year for $23M, which, especially 2016 and 2017, I think conforms to not always getting their money's worth. Also, I don't think many thought the Dodgers were getting a discount BEFORE play began last year.
Also, the Dodgers had to pay his Korean team $25.7M on top of his salary. |
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epak
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Ryu vs Bum?
Gimme whichever one is healthier. |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | LonzoLegend2 wrote: | | So do we prefer to overpay for Ryu or Mad Bum? Not seeing any aces left in the market now so desperate times call for desperate measures. |
I would think Ryu because he has been much better in recent years, and I am guessing he will only require a 2-3 year deal. |
Whatever seems right, it will always be more. I expect $75M/4 or $60M/3 or more. The Dodgers have treated Ryu fairly (unlike Maeda), and have not always got their money's worth, so one could hope for a slight discount. |
I thought the Dodgers already got the discount last year when Ryu accepted the QO and gave them a Cy Young worthy year?
The Dodgers paid Ryu a total of $53.9M for 7 years and got 4 really good years out of it.
125 starts at a 2.98 ERA for $53.9M
That's a pretty fair deal |
Maybe overall, but 2016 - 2018, he was 12-13, with a 3.24 ERA in 213 2/3 innings, or about one above average year for $23M, which, especially 2016 and 2017, I think conforms to not always getting their money's worth. Also, I don't think many thought the Dodgers were getting a discount BEFORE play began last year.
Also, the Dodgers had to pay his Korean team $25.7M on top of his salary. |
Yeah, but he was making $6M a year. If the Dodgers are worried about not getting their $6M a year's worth out of him for the years that he was injured, then they certainly got more than their money's worth in the years when he was healthy.
And not sure about last year why it matters before or after? In the end, he gave them alot more than $17.9M worth?
And about them having to post $25.7M on top of his salary, is he supposed to repay them?
At what point do we just call it an even exchange?
Why is Ryu still indebted to the Dodgers?
They paid him $53.9M for 4 strong years and they're looking for a hometown discount?
Especially with all the money they blew on other injured pitchers?
This makes no sense to me.
Seems like a pretty fair exchange so far. Ryu doesn't owe the Dodgers anything.
I think entering free agency last yr, there was talking of Ryu giving the Dodgers a hometown discount for all the years that he was hurt. He re-signed for 1 yr and gave them a Cy Young level season. And there's still talk of the dude needing to give the team a hometown discount.
At what point will he have repaid his debt to the Dodgers? This can't just go on in perpetuity right?
The guy's made $53.9M in his career. If we can't afford him, then we should let him go to a team that's willing to pay. I think he's repaid his debt to the team. |
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ribeye
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Joined: 10 Nov 2001
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | LonzoLegend2 wrote: | | So do we prefer to overpay for Ryu or Mad Bum? Not seeing any aces left in the market now so desperate times call for desperate measures. |
I would think Ryu because he has been much better in recent years, and I am guessing he will only require a 2-3 year deal. |
Whatever seems right, it will always be more. I expect $75M/4 or $60M/3 or more. The Dodgers have treated Ryu fairly (unlike Maeda), and have not always got their money's worth, so one could hope for a slight discount. |
I thought the Dodgers already got the discount last year when Ryu accepted the QO and gave them a Cy Young worthy year?
The Dodgers paid Ryu a total of $53.9M for 7 years and got 4 really good years out of it.
125 starts at a 2.98 ERA for $53.9M
That's a pretty fair deal |
Maybe overall, but 2016 - 2018, he was 12-13, with a 3.24 ERA in 213 2/3 innings, or about one above average year for $23M, which, especially 2016 and 2017, I think conforms to not always getting their money's worth. Also, I don't think many thought the Dodgers were getting a discount BEFORE play began last year.
Also, the Dodgers had to pay his Korean team $25.7M on top of his salary. |
Yeah, but he was making $6M a year. If the Dodgers are worried about not getting their $6M a year's worth out of him for the years that he was injured, then they certainly got more than their money's worth in the years when he was healthy.
And not sure about last year why it matters before or after? In the end, he gave them alot more than $17.9M worth?
And about them having to post $25.7M on top of his salary, is he supposed to repay them?
At what point do we just call it an even exchange?
Why is Ryu still indebted to the Dodgers?
They paid him $53.9M for 4 strong years and they're looking for a hometown discount?
Especially with all the money they blew on other injured pitchers?
This makes no sense to me.
Seems like a pretty fair exchange so far. Ryu doesn't owe the Dodgers anything. |
You just love to do this with your Strawman arguments. Did I say that Ryu should pay the Dodgers back $25.7M or was I pointing out that the cost was more than you suggested? Did I say he was indebted to the Dodgers, or did I say they have not always received their money's worth? |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | You just love to do this with your Strawman arguments. Did I say that Ryu should pay the Dodgers back $25.7M or was I pointing out that the cost was more than you suggested? Did I say he was indebted to the Dodgers, or did I say they have not always received their money's worth? |
It doesn't have to be you and I'm not arguing against YOU.
I'm arguing against the IDEA that Ryu would owe the Dodgers anything.
And this is the IDEA I'm arguing against:
| Quote: | | and have not always got their money's worth, so one could hope for a slight discount. |
If the Dodgers haven't always gotten their money's worth in the years that he was hurt, they certainly have gotten MORE than their money's worth in the years that he was healthy.
So, if the IDEA is to point out that they could hope for a slight discount for the years they didn't get their money's worth, then it would also be fair to point out that he's already given them a discount for the years that he overproduced.
So again, this isn't against YOU. I'm not arguing against YOU, so don't be offended or take it personal.
I'd have the same take no matter who brought it up. I'm against the IDEA that Ryu would owe the Dodgers anything.
They should be negotiating like they would negotiate with Cole or Bumgarner.
When negotiating with Cole, there was no suggestion of Cole maybe needing to give the Dodgers a discount. And I feel the same way about Ryu.
There's no discount necessary. It was a fair exchange for both sides. Both sides got a fair deal.
The Dodgers should negotiate with Ryu the same as they negotiate with Bumgarner or Cole. If they don't expect a discount from Cole or Bumgarner, they shouldn't expect one from Ryu. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| I'll tell you what, I will hope for a team discount and you can not expect one. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | I'll tell you what, I will hope for a team discount and you can not expect one. |
Sure, and you can also leave Ryu out of it and just say I hope every single free agent gives the Dodgers a slight discount this year.
There's really no need to limit it to Ryu. |
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nickuku
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Posts: 7844
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:38 am Post subject: |
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lets just sign bum ryu and rendon and call it an offseason.
Bum for 20 and Ryu for 25 on 3-4 years, Rendon for 40 on 5 years.
Beats having decade long contracts
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| nickuku wrote: | lets just sign bum ryu and rendon and call it an offseason.
Bum for 20 and Ryu for 25 on 3-4 years, Rendon for 40 on 5 years.
Beats having decade long contracts |
4/5 of our rotation is already set:
1) Buehler
2) Kershaw
3) Urias
4) Maeda
We also have May, Gonsolin, Stripling and whoever else in contention for the 5th starter spot.
I think we only sign one more starter unless we trade a starter like Maeda. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
The Angels and Dodgers were the runners-up for Cole, though both clubs submitted offers that came up short in years and average annual value, according to Mike DiGiovanna of the Los Angeles Times. ESPN's Buster Olney reports Yankees chairman Hal Steinbrenner negotiated with Scott Boras directly and the ninth guaranteed year sealed the deal.
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| Quote: |
Thanks to their financial maneuvering the last few years, the Dodgers have about $44 million in wiggle room under the $208 million luxury tax threshold, with players like Joc Pederson and Chris Taylor candidates to be traded to clear more money. They can afford Rendon at $30-something million a year and have a path to signing a $20-something million a year starter as well.
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https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/whats-next-for-dodgers-and-angels-after-missing-gerrit-cole-l-a-teams-turn-attention-to-rendon-and-beyond/
Rendon and Ryu? Sounds like a great offseason. |
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epak
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Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Jorge Castillo
@jorgecastillo
The Dodgers' offer for Gerrit Cole was eight years for $300 million, per sources. It included deferrals.
The Angels' offer was south of $300 million over eight years with deferrals. |
Big offer. But not big enough. |
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epak
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
#Dodgers pessimistic on chances of landing free-agent third baseman Anthony Rendon, sources tell The Athletic. #Rangers remain heavily involved. #Angels also interested, too. #Nationals a long shot; Rendon balked at deferrals in their initial seven-year, $210M-$215M offer. |
Not looking good!
Which is great. Which means the Dodgers will get him |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Quote: | Jorge Castillo
@jorgecastillo
The Dodgers' offer for Gerrit Cole was eight years for $300 million, per sources. It included deferrals.
The Angels' offer was south of $300 million over eight years with deferrals. |
Big offer. But not big enough. |
Yeah, somehow I don't think we were outbidding the Yankees. If we would have gone 9 I think they might have gone to 10.
I think the Yankees didn't want us to get him as that would make us the WS favorites for the next 2-3 years. |
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nickuku
Star Player
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Posts: 7844
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not really okay with 1 year 30 mil costing us an ace.
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