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aprevo15
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:34 pm    Post subject:

It's kinda funny reading the astros forum. It went from denial to "we are not the only ones doing it" stage.
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h2omike
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:12 pm    Post subject:

I wonder how hard MLB will come down on the Astros, if at all. I’d say anything under year long suspensions and forfeited draft picks is a whitewash.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:37 pm    Post subject:

I want that championship vacated. But I know that is unrealistic.

I mean, seriously. They were cheating, even in the WS? What more do you want?

MLB will have to do something, something serious, because this was serious, otherwise just let everyone do it.

Bye.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:37 pm    Post subject:

gumby wrote:
I want that championship vacated. But I know that is unrealistic.

I mean, seriously. They were cheating, even in the WS? What more do you want?

MLB will have to do something, something serious, because this was serious, otherwise just let everyone do it.

Bye.


Here's a question. Is there anything a team can do to get mlb to vacate a title? Bribery of umpires?
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Theseus
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:52 pm    Post subject:

Heads should roll for this. The astros cheated their way to a world series win.

So many people will stop taking the MLB seriously if the Astros get a slap on the wrist.


I feel bad for the Dodgers fans. As a Cardinals fan in SoCal I've sometimes gotten a hard time for wearing my Cardinals hat, but nothing bad, more good natured ribbing than anything.

I've always had a lot of respect for Kershaw as a pitcher. I know the knock on him has been he isn't a big game pitcher, or isn't clutch or whatever. I always thought that was bad luck more than anything. Having seen us put up a big game against him in person, which I thought was more luck than anything, especially in hindsight. I thought in 2017 that he was well on his way to getting the post season monkey off of his back, and would win a world series against the Astros.

He was dominant in game 1 at home. 7 IP. 11 K. 3 H's and 1 run allowed. 83 pitches thrown. Then he only goes 4 2/3 in Houston, giving up 6 runs, walking 3, while only striking out 2! What a wild turn of events, and then people start talking about how he is a choker in big games again. Now the Dodgers were down in the series while going back home, when they could have been up and going home.

It isn't just the game that loses integrity with this, its people's legacy. Kershaw could be in the hall of fame one day. Yet people will talk about his post season failures a lot. Imagine if the Dodgers win the WS in 2017 with him turning in 2 good starts. Now we have an asterisk next to the whole thing.

Heads should roll for this thing.
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:53 pm    Post subject:

I want draft picks from the Astros until the Dodgers win it all (unless the Dodgers win in the next 5 years, then the Astros should lose picks to the Dodgers for 5 years). For example, if the Dodgers don’t win for the next 40 years, the team gets some of the Astros picks for the next 40 years.

Some of the other teams cheated should get picks too.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:08 pm    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
I want draft picks from the Astros until the Dodgers win it all (unless the Dodgers win in the next 5 years, then the Astros should lose picks to the Dodgers for 5 years). For example, if the Dodgers don’t win for the next 40 years, the team gets some of the Astros picks for the next 40 years.

Some of the other teams cheated should get picks too.


Anyone who purchased tickets should get a refund.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:14 pm    Post subject:

was on some Reds forums this weekend and seems like people around the league are starting to lean towards the Dodgers being a landing spot for Rendon (and maybe Cole). I usually wish well for you guys in a vacuum because a few of you that I speak to are so emotionally invested in the Dodgers....but I just can't wish for you guys to land Rendon. Your lineup this past season was superior to any other NL team.....Rendon would make that gap 73 win Warriors level.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:11 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
was on some Reds forums this weekend and seems like people around the league are starting to lean towards the Dodgers being a landing spot for Rendon (and maybe Cole). I usually wish well for you guys in a vacuum because a few of you that I speak to are so emotionally invested in the Dodgers....but I just can't wish for you guys to land Rendon. Your lineup this past season was superior to any other NL team.....Rendon would make that gap 73 win Warriors level.


I still think we need Cole more than Rendon. Another ace is a low-key need for us. Kershaw had a 3.80 FIP last season and Ryu will probably walk. Urias is going to have to be on an innings limit this season, ditto May, and no one else we have is capable of being a top-of-the-rotation starter.

Rendon would obviously be a great addition but I think there should be more urgency for another ace.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:02 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
adkindo wrote:
was on some Reds forums this weekend and seems like people around the league are starting to lean towards the Dodgers being a landing spot for Rendon (and maybe Cole). I usually wish well for you guys in a vacuum because a few of you that I speak to are so emotionally invested in the Dodgers....but I just can't wish for you guys to land Rendon. Your lineup this past season was superior to any other NL team.....Rendon would make that gap 73 win Warriors level.


I still think we need Cole more than Rendon. Another ace is a low-key need for us. Kershaw had a 3.80 FIP last season and Ryu will probably walk. Urias is going to have to be on an innings limit this season, ditto May, and no one else we have is capable of being a top-of-the-rotation starter.

Rendon would obviously be a great addition but I think there should be more urgency for another ace.


All attention lately has been on the Astros cheating when it comes to hitting, but I wonder when people will start seriously examining how they've turned washed-up dudes into Cy Young candidates? Bauer has some ideas...
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:10 pm    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
adkindo wrote:
was on some Reds forums this weekend and seems like people around the league are starting to lean towards the Dodgers being a landing spot for Rendon (and maybe Cole). I usually wish well for you guys in a vacuum because a few of you that I speak to are so emotionally invested in the Dodgers....but I just can't wish for you guys to land Rendon. Your lineup this past season was superior to any other NL team.....Rendon would make that gap 73 win Warriors level.


I still think we need Cole more than Rendon. Another ace is a low-key need for us. Kershaw had a 3.80 FIP last season and Ryu will probably walk. Urias is going to have to be on an innings limit this season, ditto May, and no one else we have is capable of being a top-of-the-rotation starter.

Rendon would obviously be a great addition but I think there should be more urgency for another ace.


All attention lately has been on the Astros cheating when it comes to hitting, but I wonder when people will start seriously examining how they've turned washed-up dudes into Cy Young candidates? Bauer has some ideas...


Yep. See my comment on Verlander when this all broke.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:28 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
adkindo wrote:
was on some Reds forums this weekend and seems like people around the league are starting to lean towards the Dodgers being a landing spot for Rendon (and maybe Cole). I usually wish well for you guys in a vacuum because a few of you that I speak to are so emotionally invested in the Dodgers....but I just can't wish for you guys to land Rendon. Your lineup this past season was superior to any other NL team.....Rendon would make that gap 73 win Warriors level.


I still think we need Cole more than Rendon. Another ace is a low-key need for us. Kershaw had a 3.80 FIP last season and Ryu will probably walk. Urias is going to have to be on an innings limit this season, ditto May, and no one else we have is capable of being a top-of-the-rotation starter.

Rendon would obviously be a great addition but I think there should be more urgency for another ace.


All attention lately has been on the Astros cheating when it comes to hitting, but I wonder when people will start seriously examining how they've turned washed-up dudes into Cy Young candidates? Bauer has some ideas...


Yep. See my comment on Verlander when this all broke.


This stuff doesn't just come out based on examination. It never does.

There's gotta be a whistleblower.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:36 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
gumby wrote:
I want that championship vacated. But I know that is unrealistic.

I mean, seriously. They were cheating, even in the WS? What more do you want?

MLB will have to do something, something serious, because this was serious, otherwise just let everyone do it.

Bye.


Here's a question. Is there anything a team can do to get mlb to vacate a title? Bribery of umpires?


Here's a strong opinion for having them vacate their title:


Rumors of cheating using electronic bandaids on players

1 buzz for fastball, 2 buzz for breaking ball

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcWBRIrKUmc


---------------------------

Looks like jomboy found the exact setup that Mike Fiers was referring to:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/sports/astros-sign-stealing-investigation-video-footage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9up10jsW1c
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:30 pm    Post subject:

The idea that the pitchers are somehow cheating is an interesting one. How would they pull that off? I mean, sure, I suppose they could be on some sort of PED program that makes them gain velocity and spin rate. Like, I know that Charlie Morton threw much harder when he joined them. But Morton kept everything up last season with the Rays.

Interesting to ponder, I admit. Might make one hesitant to shell out $240MM+ for Cole.
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:33 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
adkindo wrote:
was on some Reds forums this weekend and seems like people around the league are starting to lean towards the Dodgers being a landing spot for Rendon (and maybe Cole). I usually wish well for you guys in a vacuum because a few of you that I speak to are so emotionally invested in the Dodgers....but I just can't wish for you guys to land Rendon. Your lineup this past season was superior to any other NL team.....Rendon would make that gap 73 win Warriors level.


I still think we need Cole more than Rendon. Another ace is a low-key need for us. Kershaw had a 3.80 FIP last season and Ryu will probably walk. Urias is going to have to be on an innings limit this season, ditto May, and no one else we have is capable of being a top-of-the-rotation starter.

Rendon would obviously be a great addition but I think there should be more urgency for another ace.


Baseball has way more upsets than basketball so it’s hard to imagine a roster that would be like the Warriors with Durant in the playoffs. The team would dominate a 162 game season, but is no sure thing in the postseason.

Baseball is more comparable to the NHL. Look at the Tampa Bay Lightning. They were loaded, had a historical season and were swept in the first round.

And Rendon can’t dominate a game the way that Durant can. Cole can be completely dominant, but he usually doesn’t play.


Last edited by Steve007 on Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:35 pm    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
adkindo wrote:
was on some Reds forums this weekend and seems like people around the league are starting to lean towards the Dodgers being a landing spot for Rendon (and maybe Cole). I usually wish well for you guys in a vacuum because a few of you that I speak to are so emotionally invested in the Dodgers....but I just can't wish for you guys to land Rendon. Your lineup this past season was superior to any other NL team.....Rendon would make that gap 73 win Warriors level.


I still think we need Cole more than Rendon. Another ace is a low-key need for us. Kershaw had a 3.80 FIP last season and Ryu will probably walk. Urias is going to have to be on an innings limit this season, ditto May, and no one else we have is capable of being a top-of-the-rotation starter.

Rendon would obviously be a great addition but I think there should be more urgency for another ace.


Baseball has way more upsets than basketball so it’s hard to imagine a roster that would be like the Warriors with Durant in the playoffs. The team would dominate a 162 game season, but is no sure thing in the postseason.

Baseball is more comparable to the NHL. Look at the Tampa Bay Lightning. They were loaded, had a historical season and were swept in the first round.


Anyone can lose a series in hockey. You get a hot goaltender and that's really all it takes. Never mind all sorts of other potential factors.

As far as baseball goes, I just think that trying to stack the deck in the rotation has more of a potential postseason impact than anything you can do with your lineup. But I do admit that I never thought about the angle of "what if the Astros' pitchers are somehow cheating, too?"
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:36 pm    Post subject:

Man, clear picture of the actual television screens being set up in the tunnel next to the dugout. Very very clear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJRBOmbV1zQ
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:35 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
adkindo wrote:
was on some Reds forums this weekend and seems like people around the league are starting to lean towards the Dodgers being a landing spot for Rendon (and maybe Cole). I usually wish well for you guys in a vacuum because a few of you that I speak to are so emotionally invested in the Dodgers....but I just can't wish for you guys to land Rendon. Your lineup this past season was superior to any other NL team.....Rendon would make that gap 73 win Warriors level.


I still think we need Cole more than Rendon. Another ace is a low-key need for us. Kershaw had a 3.80 FIP last season and Ryu will probably walk. Urias is going to have to be on an innings limit this season, ditto May, and no one else we have is capable of being a top-of-the-rotation starter.

Rendon would obviously be a great addition but I think there should be more urgency for another ace.


Baseball has way more upsets than basketball so it’s hard to imagine a roster that would be like the Warriors with Durant in the playoffs. The team would dominate a 162 game season, but is no sure thing in the postseason.

Baseball is more comparable to the NHL. Look at the Tampa Bay Lightning. They were loaded, had a historical season and were swept in the first round.


Anyone can lose a series in hockey. You get a hot goaltender and that's really all it takes. Never mind all sorts of other potential factors.

As far as baseball goes, I just think that trying to stack the deck in the rotation has more of a potential postseason impact than anything you can do with your lineup. But I do admit that I never thought about the angle of "what if the Astros' pitchers are somehow cheating, too?"


A couple of things I overlooked is fewer teams make the baseball playoffs, so the #1 seed in baseball never plays a #8 seed, and instead starts off with a tougher opponent. Also, the first round is only a best of 5 which is usually good for an underdog.

It’s hard for me to imagine any team improving enough in free agency for me to think “Okay, looks like we have the baseball version of the Golden State Warriors; as long as they stay healthy they will easily win rings.”

Even if I pick the starting rotation for a team I still will probably never think the team has enough pitching. This reminds me of some of those Atlanta Brave teams that didn’t win with Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, etc. Even if they added Roger Clemens and Randy Johnson I’m still not sure they would win more rings.

This is true if I could pick the lineup too. Even if I could pick the hitters in a lineup, I’m still not sure they would perform in the postseason when the number of games is so small which makes upsets much more likely to happen. If given a choice I still would prefer to pick the rotation though.


Last edited by Steve007 on Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:46 am; edited 2 times in total
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:40 am    Post subject:

I thought Verlander was still pretty good when he joined the Astros. But he did seem like he was declining and nobody expected him to improve the way he did.
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:43 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
was on some Reds forums this weekend and seems like people around the league are starting to lean towards the Dodgers being a landing spot for Rendon (and maybe Cole). I usually wish well for you guys in a vacuum because a few of you that I speak to are so emotionally invested in the Dodgers....but I just can't wish for you guys to land Rendon. Your lineup this past season was superior to any other NL team.....Rendon would make that gap 73 win Warriors level.


I’m more concerned with the pitching than the lineup. The bullpen and Jansen made me nervous, and besides Buehler nobody else gives me confidence in the playoffs (assuming Ryu is gone).
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:04 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
I thought Verlander was still pretty good when he joined the Astros. But he did seem like he was declining and nobody expected him to improve the way he did.


In light of the Astros penchant for cheating, it wouldn’t be surprising if some of their ace pitchers were also looking for a non-detectable performance enhancing edge. Remember how Eric Gagne went from “a piece of crap” as Jim Rome described him, to the most dominant closer of all time? The rewards for pitchers are significant. At this point, it wouldn’t be surprising...and that’s the problem with cheating the way they did as an entire organization. Everyone is complicit, so everyone is now suspect.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject:

https://sports.yahoo.com/kenta-maeda-not-happy-dodgers-170326695.html
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:51 pm    Post subject:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:
https://sports.yahoo.com/kenta-maeda-not-happy-dodgers-170326695.html


Honestly, you can't blame the guy, as he's been yo-yo'd between the rotation and bullpen for years now.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:11 pm    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
I thought Verlander was still pretty good when he joined the Astros. But he did seem like he was declining and nobody expected him to improve the way he did.


In light of the Astros penchant for cheating, it wouldn’t be surprising if some of their ace pitchers were also looking for a non-detectable performance enhancing edge. Remember how Eric Gagne went from “a piece of crap” as Jim Rome described him, to the most dominant closer of all time? The rewards for pitchers are significant. At this point, it wouldn’t be surprising...and that’s the problem with cheating the way they did as an entire organization. Everyone is complicit, so everyone is now suspect.


If the pitchers got undetectable good stuff, the hitters should get some of it too (since it's undetectable).

Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me either. Although, it would surprise me if only the pitchers were on it and not the hitters.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:51 pm    Post subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcovCwqjSlU
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