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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:29 pm    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
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Astros reportedly had sign-stealing system for when they couldn’t hear banging noises

There has been no shortage of video evidence supporting the claims that the Houston Astros stole signs and relayed them to hitters by banging on a trash can back in 2017, but what would happen in situations where the crowd was too loud? Apparently they had a separate system in place for that.

Free-agent third baseman Trevor Plouffe says he was told by former Boston Red Sox pitcher Carson Smith and a separate source that the Astros incorporated their bullpen catcher if the environment at Minute Maid Park was too loud for hitters to hear the banging noise being relayed from between the home dugout and clubhouse. According to the claim, the Astros would have someone watch the live feed of the camera that was focused on the opposing team’s catcher and then relay the signs to their bullpen catcher, who was wearing an ear piece. The bullpen catcher would then put his hands up on the outfield fence if a fastball was coming and keep them down if it was an off-speed pitch.

https://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/astros-sign-stealing-system-couldnt-hear-banging/523592


Wow. It keeps getting worse for them. Now they are using earpieces too. Can't wait to hear about how someone knew cheating like this was happening and betting on it. Then the wheels truly come off.


Ironic thing is - the gambling part would bring more punishment than the actual cheating part


Your question got me thinking about another question. If it comes out that the Astros cheated, do losing bettors have a case to get their money back?


Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:34 pm    Post subject:

No (bleep) way Altuve puts up those numbers legit.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:54 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
No (bleep) way Altuve puts up those numbers legit.


I'll go one better: Josh Reddick.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:27 pm    Post subject:

So happy Trout won MVP

F the Astros and all their players
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LakersRGolden
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Quote:
Astros reportedly had sign-stealing system for when they couldn’t hear banging noises

There has been no shortage of video evidence supporting the claims that the Houston Astros stole signs and relayed them to hitters by banging on a trash can back in 2017, but what would happen in situations where the crowd was too loud? Apparently they had a separate system in place for that.

Free-agent third baseman Trevor Plouffe says he was told by former Boston Red Sox pitcher Carson Smith and a separate source that the Astros incorporated their bullpen catcher if the environment at Minute Maid Park was too loud for hitters to hear the banging noise being relayed from between the home dugout and clubhouse. According to the claim, the Astros would have someone watch the live feed of the camera that was focused on the opposing team’s catcher and then relay the signs to their bullpen catcher, who was wearing an ear piece. The bullpen catcher would then put his hands up on the outfield fence if a fastball was coming and keep them down if it was an off-speed pitch.

https://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/astros-sign-stealing-system-couldnt-hear-banging/523592


Wow. It keeps getting worse for them. Now they are using earpieces too. Can't wait to hear about how someone knew cheating like this was happening and betting on it. Then the wheels truly come off.


Ironic thing is - the gambling part would bring more punishment than the actual cheating part


Your question got me thinking about another question. If it comes out that the Astros cheated, do losing bettors have a case to get their money back?

No, because they still won. The Astros can be sued for losses due to their cheating though. Most betting places probably have disclaimers also.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:29 pm    Post subject:

LakersRGolden wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:

Your question got me thinking about another question. If it comes out that the Astros cheated, do losing bettors have a case to get their money back?

No, because they still won. The Astros can be sued for losses due to their cheating though. Most betting places probably have disclaimers also.


Well, let's start with this then:

If the cheating was detected immediately following the game, would that make a difference?

Let's say it comes out that the Astros bribed all the umpires. Would that make a difference? Would bettors have a case then?
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LonzoLegend2
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:01 pm    Post subject:

Now if Kendrick had a corked bat then BAAAM, LA cheated out of 3 titles.
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Surfitall
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:39 am    Post subject:

So how did the Nationals win if this was still going on? Their coaches had suspicions and ordered their catchers to use more complex signs for the whole game (not just when runners were on base).

That’s some healthy paranoia right there. Wish the Dodgers had done that in 2017.
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DuncanIdaho
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:58 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
So how did the Nationals win if this was still going on? Their coaches had suspicions and ordered their catchers to use more complex signs for the whole game (not just when runners were on base).

That’s some healthy paranoia right there. Wish the Dodgers had done that in 2017.


I read we had an idea they were cheating in 2017, but didn't know how bad it was.
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LakersRGolden
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:00 am    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
So how did the Nationals win if this was still going on? Their coaches had suspicions and ordered their catchers to use more complex signs for the whole game (not just when runners were on base).

That’s some healthy paranoia right there. Wish the Dodgers had done that in 2017.


I read we had an idea they were cheating in 2017, but didn't know how bad it was.


I remember hearing the Dodgers thought the pitchers were tipping pitches. Right symptom, wrong cause.
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aprevo15
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:50 am    Post subject:

Nationals are a super team. They beat the cheating astros 4 times in their stadium.
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loslakersss
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:56 am    Post subject:

This is a redditor's translation of what Yu Darvish said re: this whole situation. Here is the Link to the post which has the youtube video as well.

Quote:
What happened during Game 7

During the 2017 World Series, I threw around two innings, and I obviously wasn’t able to perform well. Couldn’t last two innings, something like that. I screwed up. After that WS for the past two years, I’ve received a lot of unpleasant comments from Dodgers fans about my performance. But during the past few days, I’ve received a lot of apologies from Dodgers fans, that my performance was because of the Astros stealing the signs. I’m very impressed as to how they’re reacting recently.

But personally, Game 7 was played at Dodgers Stadium. Since what we currently know is limited to MMP, I don’t think there were any sign stealings going on at that game. However, with the technology that they have, I really think it’s not impossible that they’ve done it at LA as well.

After Game 7, there were news about how I was tipping my pitches. After the WS ended, I personally asked a player from the Astros about it. He said that I was fumbling my ball before I threw my fastball. After Game 3, the Dodgers suspected that I was tipping my pitches, and I reviewed some footage with some people. I reviewed my mechanics from that footage, but we all couldn’t find any noticeable signs that I was giving something away. During Game 7, I was really aware and concerned about this, so I made extra sure on the mound that I wasn’t giving anything away.

After Game 7, I’ve been personally trying to get to the bottom of this problem. This year, from a source from the Astros that I won’t disclose, I was told that I was tipping my pitches during Game 3 and 7 by fumbling my ball before my windup. Since I saw my Game 7 footage numerous times, I was convinced that I wasn’t doing that, and there was something in the back of my mind that didn’t mesh well with what that player was saying, and what was shown on the footage.

Looking back on his WS performance:

Now, do I think that my failure in the 2017 WS is because of the Astros stealing signs? I don’t think so, I think Astros have talented players. Results don’t change, and I don’t expect anyone to send me apologies for what they had said to me for the past 2 years. Through adversity, I’ve been able to work hard to get to where I am, where I can play for a great organization, the Cubs. If I start associating my failure to the Astros scandal, I don’t think that I would be able to develop as a person. I think adversity is important in life, and I think these types of failures will be an important experience for me, as a player. I’m willing to swallow the results of 2017.

On Gurriel:

During the 2017 WS, Gurriel did a racial gesture after he hit a HR off of me. I don’t really care, but if he did that knowing about the signs, I think that puts that problem in an entirely different light.


Some weird things he saw this year:

Especially this year, I've noticed a lot weird things. When I’m in the set position, usually the batter looks at me. It depends on the batter, but they generally look at my elbows, my eyes, my shoulders, you know it. But several times this year, I’ve noticed that the batters don’t look at me. (Timestamp at 11:00, he does a bit of demonstration) Even without runners on second, I see players just looking into the distance, around left center field. It’s awkward. This usually happens when we’re the visiting team. I’ve even told Caratini during mound visits that the batters eyes were not on me.

Conclusion:

So… um… let’s stop sign stealing. What’s fun about swinging at something that you know that’s coming? I wonder if the batters are actually happy with that. If Houston was actually content with winning the WS knowing that they were stealing signs electronically... IDK I wouldn't be able to do that as a player if I’m in their shoes. It’s very disappointing.


While I recognize the infractions are different in nature, I see the NFL is not shy to deliver swift and harsh punishment when needed. I hope MLB follows suit.
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DuncanIdaho
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:26 am    Post subject:

The scumbag Astros player still lying to Darvish really pisses me off. Also the Gurriel HR is even worse in retrospect. Dude knew he was cheating on top of his racist crap.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:43 am    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
The scumbag Astros player still lying to Darvish really pisses me off. Also the Gurriel HR is even worse in retrospect. Dude knew he was cheating on top of his racist crap.


MLB needs to gut that franchise.
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LakerLanny
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:15 pm    Post subject:

Congratulations to Cory Bellinger, National League MVP.

That is a major achievement.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:17 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
No (bleep) way Altuve puts up those numbers legit.


I'm tired of that midget.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:10 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

Astros executive asked scouts for help stealing signs and suggested using cameras, email shows

An Astros front-office executive wrote about the team’s desire to steal signs in an August 2017 email that was obtained by The Athletic. As the club discussed its advance scouting plans ahead of the playoffs, the executive asked the team’s scouts to pursue sign stealing from the stands, and suggested cameras could be used to do so.

“One thing in specific we are looking for is picking up signs coming out of the dugout,” the email’s sender wrote in a message from August of 2017. “What we are looking for is how much we can see, how we would log things, if we need cameras/binoculars, etc. So go to game, see what you can (or can’t) do and report back your findings.”

The email was sent to multiple people and provided to The Athletic on the condition that both its sender and recipients remain unnamed.

https://theathletic.com/1374774/2019/11/16/astros-executive-asked-scouts-for-help-stealing-signs-and-suggested-using-cameras-email-shows/

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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject:

^ They are so (bleep). Anyone that wants to defend this with "everyone does this" can gtfoh.

This won't soften the blow of getting cheated out of a WS title but I still want them to pay dearly.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:46 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
The exec discussed sign stealing with scouts through multiple channels of communication, according to the report, which said a number of scouts were disgusted and voiced their disagreement to management about the idea of using cameras to steal signs.

“Nobody wanted to do that, and take a chance of getting caught and ruining their reputation, not only as a scout but then even further damage what the Astros had going,” a person directly involved in the conversations said.

MLB rules prohibit the use of cameras or other electronic equipment to steal signs. Having scouts pick up signs from the stands, even with the help of binoculars, is allowed as long as they are not relayed to the dugout during that same game. Asking scouts to track signs from the stands is not unusual, according to the report, but one non-Astros scout called bringing up the used of cameras as something that “crosses the line.”

https://nypost.com/2019/11/16/astros-emails-reveal-how-deep-cheating-scandal-went-in-2017/


Quote:
The emails were given to Rosenthal and Drellich on the condition that the individuals who sent and received them would remain anoymous. But considering how wildly, wickedly improper the discussed activities are, it's simply not conceivable that these guys won't be outed before too long.

It's also noted that similar discussions took place on a Slack channel and over the phone.

https://www.12up.com/posts/houston-astros-exec-asked-scouts-for-help-stealing-signs-01dsvfmba1nd
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Quote:

Astros executive asked scouts for help stealing signs and suggested using cameras, email shows

An Astros front-office executive wrote about the team’s desire to steal signs in an August 2017 email that was obtained by The Athletic. As the club discussed its advance scouting plans ahead of the playoffs, the executive asked the team’s scouts to pursue sign stealing from the stands, and suggested cameras could be used to do so.

“One thing in specific we are looking for is picking up signs coming out of the dugout,” the email’s sender wrote in a message from August of 2017. “What we are looking for is how much we can see, how we would log things, if we need cameras/binoculars, etc. So go to game, see what you can (or can’t) do and report back your findings.”

The email was sent to multiple people and provided to The Athletic on the condition that both its sender and recipients remain unnamed.

https://theathletic.com/1374774/2019/11/16/astros-executive-asked-scouts-for-help-stealing-signs-and-suggested-using-cameras-email-shows/



Well that's all within the rules
Edit: the clarification the latter post about the cameras being illegal in scouting sheds a different light but how different is that from studying film on pitchers tipping pitches. Not much. The live camera work during the game though does cross the line for me
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:15 pm    Post subject:

I think Darvish is being too honorable about being screwed over by the Astros. With the entire convulated scheme coming to light, I think a lot of Dodger fans will probably forgive the performance of the team in the World Series knowing that the Astros had a huge unfair advantage. I wouldn't be surprised if theres a lot of Astros execs, coaches and scouts that will be facing penalties imposed by the MLB if they are serious about cracking down on this.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 11:51 pm    Post subject:

Jeff Passan

@JeffPassan
·
5m


The email, first reported by
@Ken_Rosenthal
and
@EvanDrellich
, is part of the growing body of evidence as MLB investigates the Astros and weighs potential discipline. There is an increasing sense severe penalties could accompany the investigation’s findings.
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LonzoLegend2
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:59 am    Post subject:

Make them return Alvarez to us, we kinda got bent over there as well.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:32 am    Post subject:

LonzoLegend2 wrote:
Make them return Alvarez to us, we kinda got bent over there as well.


Where would you play Alvarez? LF?

He was benched against the Nationals when they played at the Nationals in the WS.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:53 pm    Post subject:

F it. I change my mind. Take away their World Series title.

https://twitter.com/r_j_anderson/status/1196518587495780352/photo/1
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