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Cutheon
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:08 pm    Post subject:

loslakersss wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
I don't know much about baseball, but it appears that the article was about cheating throughout MLB and folks are singling out Houston (I guess cuz we won)? All the examples seem to be from the regular season as well.

The #Astros stole signs electronically in 2017 - part of a much broader issue for Major League Baseball. Story with @EvanDrellich. https://theathletic.com/1363451/2019/11/12/the-astros-stole-signs-electronically-in-2017-part-of-a-much-broader-issue-for-major-league-baseball/

https://twitter.com/Joshstros/status/1194326043114520578?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1194326043114520578&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231194326043114520578

From what I'm reading cheating in this sport is a pretty rampant thing, others have been popped, etc. Where is all the talk of vacating titles or extreme penalties coming from? Is cheating not rampant in baseball? Have other teams not been popped for cheating? Again, I don't know much about baseball so these are legit questions.


There's a difference between gamesmanship and cheating. Players have always tried to steal signs and look for pitchers tipping - there is no rules against this. The difference here is the Astros are using technology to not only steal signs but to relay them to the team instantly so they batter has an advantage. Technology is what makes this a violation. No teams are allowed to have cameras between the foul poles for this reason. The Astros did this deliberately to gain an unfair advantage and it resulted in 3 100-win seasons, 2 WS trips and a title.


Yup. Nothing wrong with a player using his eyes, baseball IQ, etc, to deduce what the opposing pitcher is giving him. That is literally the game of baseball. This is out and out cheating.
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4stargeneralbulldog
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:39 pm    Post subject:

The Braves GM was banned for life for circumventing the rules for signing international players just a few years back. This is much worse, it goes at the heart of the integrity of the game. There should be lifetime bans for the higher ups in the Astros organization.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:33 pm    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
How does MLB not savage the Astros for this? They didn't just do this to us - in the (bleep) world series - the Astros also did this to Boston in 2017, the Yankees in 2017, the Indians in 2018, Boston in 2018, the Rays in 2019, the Yankees in 2019, the Nationals in 2019, and every single other team they beat in the last three regular seasons (311-175 w/l). and the players got rewarded to the tune of a world series, MVP awards, all-star selections, and silver sluggers. their pitchers benefitted to the tune of an absurd w/l record and cy youngs.

I'm obviously biased, but (bleep) it - I hope MLB leans into this and cripples that organization. You want to cheat for three seasons? Fine. No draft picks for the next three years, no international signings for three years, no free agents for three years, a $250 million dollar fine, and a fat (bleep) asterisk next to your season record and 2017 title.


I think MLB is treading carefully with this because unlike the steroid scandal where they can single out individual players for punishment, this affects an entire franchise and has legitimate operating concerns for MLB as a business.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:29 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
How does MLB not savage the Astros for this? They didn't just do this to us - in the (bleep) world series - the Astros also did this to Boston in 2017, the Yankees in 2017, the Indians in 2018, Boston in 2018, the Rays in 2019, the Yankees in 2019, the Nationals in 2019, and every single other team they beat in the last three regular seasons (311-175 w/l). and the players got rewarded to the tune of a world series, MVP awards, all-star selections, and silver sluggers. their pitchers benefitted to the tune of an absurd w/l record and cy youngs.

I'm obviously biased, but (bleep) it - I hope MLB leans into this and cripples that organization. You want to cheat for three seasons? Fine. No draft picks for the next three years, no international signings for three years, no free agents for three years, a $250 million dollar fine, and a fat (bleep) asterisk next to your season record and 2017 title.


I think MLB is treading carefully with this because unlike the steroid scandal where they can single out individual players for punishment, this affects an entire franchise and has legitimate operating concerns for MLB as a business.


What’s worse, throwing a match or cheating to win?

What’s worse in boxing? A boxer taking a dive or one who stuffs his gloves and kills his opponent?

We know how hard they came down on the Black Sox scandal.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:26 pm    Post subject:

Jon Heyman

@JonHeyman


Dodgers have Anthony Rendon on their radar. Earlier they’d been connected to Josh Donaldson. Justin Turner has generously offered to change positions if necessary.
5:32 PM · Nov 13, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
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Dreamshake
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:49 pm    Post subject:

nickuku wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
nickuku wrote:
I honestly don't care if they were stealing signs w/o external methods. Thats a part of the game. But its literally proven at this point that they used cameras as part of their schemes. Just look at the (bleep) home/away splits for them in the 2017 playoffs. Altuve had an OPS of 1.5 at home vs on the road and that goes for like 6 other players too. Mccan hit .037 on the road and .300 at home. Ban that organization from top to bottom for 5 years.


Saw this online. Valid?

#Astros since 2017:

Home - .270/.343/.465
Away - .270/.342/.468


Congrats on being one of the idiots defending this.

https://youtu.be/M2XNW1qHN9w CLEAR AND LOUD EVIDENCE

https://nypost.com/2019/10/17/astros-a-j-hinch-responds-to-sign-stealing-accusations-its-a-joke/

https://twitter.com/jmjones/status/1194339616234627073?s=21

https://www.barstoolsports.com/newyork/the-houston-astros-homeroad-splits-during-the-2017-postseason-are-laugh-out-loud-funny-and-you-might-need-to-take-away-their-title

Theres also other (bleep) like Kershaw's game 5 that are egregious as well.

I get there's lines that your fan base will cross like giving a standing ovation to a racist or shamelessly defend cheating or cheer a flopping pos.


Please highlight where my post defended anything? I’ll wait....
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Dreamshake
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:57 pm    Post subject:

loslakersss wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
I don't know much about baseball, but it appears that the article was about cheating throughout MLB and folks are singling out Houston (I guess cuz we won)? All the examples seem to be from the regular season as well.

The #Astros stole signs electronically in 2017 - part of a much broader issue for Major League Baseball. Story with @EvanDrellich. https://theathletic.com/1363451/2019/11/12/the-astros-stole-signs-electronically-in-2017-part-of-a-much-broader-issue-for-major-league-baseball/

https://twitter.com/Joshstros/status/1194326043114520578?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1194326043114520578&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231194326043114520578

From what I'm reading cheating in this sport is a pretty rampant thing, others have been popped, etc. Where is all the talk of vacating titles or extreme penalties coming from? Is cheating not rampant in baseball? Have other teams not been popped for cheating? Again, I don't know much about baseball so these are legit questions.


There's a difference between gamesmanship and cheating. Players have always tried to steal signs and look for pitchers tipping - there is no rules against this. The difference here is the Astros are using technology to not only steal signs but to relay them to the team instantly so they batter has an advantage. Technology is what makes this a violation. No teams are allowed to have cameras between the foul poles for this reason. The Astros did this deliberately to gain an unfair advantage and it resulted in 3 100-win seasons, 2 WS trips and a title.


But wasn’t Boston caught for using technology to do the same thing?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/sports/baseball/boston-red-sox-stealing-signs-yankees.amp.html

They got fined and the $$ went to hurricane relief efforts.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-rules-on-red-sox-yankees-sign-stealing-and-fines-both-teams/

The original article makes it seem like it a rampant thing in baseball. I seeing examples like the one above, or or guys getting popped for putting stuff on the balls, etc.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:24 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
I don't know much about baseball, but it appears that the article was about cheating throughout MLB and folks are singling out Houston (I guess cuz we won)? All the examples seem to be from the regular season as well.

The #Astros stole signs electronically in 2017 - part of a much broader issue for Major League Baseball. Story with @EvanDrellich. https://theathletic.com/1363451/2019/11/12/the-astros-stole-signs-electronically-in-2017-part-of-a-much-broader-issue-for-major-league-baseball/

https://twitter.com/Joshstros/status/1194326043114520578?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1194326043114520578&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231194326043114520578

From what I'm reading cheating in this sport is a pretty rampant thing, others have been popped, etc. Where is all the talk of vacating titles or extreme penalties coming from? Is cheating not rampant in baseball? Have other teams not been popped for cheating? Again, I don't know much about baseball so these are legit questions.


There's a difference between gamesmanship and cheating. Players have always tried to steal signs and look for pitchers tipping - there is no rules against this. The difference here is the Astros are using technology to not only steal signs but to relay them to the team instantly so they batter has an advantage. Technology is what makes this a violation. No teams are allowed to have cameras between the foul poles for this reason. The Astros did this deliberately to gain an unfair advantage and it resulted in 3 100-win seasons, 2 WS trips and a title.


But wasn’t Boston caught for using technology to do the same thing?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/sports/baseball/boston-red-sox-stealing-signs-yankees.amp.html

They got fined and the $$ went to hurricane relief efforts.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-rules-on-red-sox-yankees-sign-stealing-and-fines-both-teams/

The original article makes it seem like it a rampant thing in baseball. I seeing examples like the one above, or or guys getting popped for putting stuff on the balls, etc.


Yeah, the difference is the results. Astros won a WS in 2017.

If Mike Fiers came out and said Astros stole signs in 2014, no one would care.

It taints the WS. It taints the game.

People care more when results become tainted.


In the Olympics, lots of people are caught doping. In the tour de france, lots of people were caught doping. Who are the ones that made the biggest headlines? The winners. The ones that won the gold medal.

Lance Armstrong
Ben Johnson
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:22 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Jon Heyman

@JonHeyman


Dodgers have Anthony Rendon on their radar. Earlier they’d been connected to Josh Donaldson. Justin Turner has generously offered to change positions if necessary.
5:32 PM · Nov 13, 2019·Twitter for iPhone


that would be pretty crazy to add Rendon to that lineup.....sounds like Ryu may not be a priority to keep?
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:43 pm    Post subject:

MVP coming out today.

It's going to be an Angels-Dodgers sweep right?
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:53 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Astros reportedly had sign-stealing system for when they couldn’t hear banging noises

There has been no shortage of video evidence supporting the claims that the Houston Astros stole signs and relayed them to hitters by banging on a trash can back in 2017, but what would happen in situations where the crowd was too loud? Apparently they had a separate system in place for that.

Free-agent third baseman Trevor Plouffe says he was told by former Boston Red Sox pitcher Carson Smith and a separate source that the Astros incorporated their bullpen catcher if the environment at Minute Maid Park was too loud for hitters to hear the banging noise being relayed from between the home dugout and clubhouse. According to the claim, the Astros would have someone watch the live feed of the camera that was focused on the opposing team’s catcher and then relay the signs to their bullpen catcher, who was wearing an ear piece. The bullpen catcher would then put his hands up on the outfield fence if a fastball was coming and keep them down if it was an off-speed pitch.

https://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/astros-sign-stealing-system-couldnt-hear-banging/523592
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:30 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
MVP coming out today.

It's going to be an Angels-Dodgers sweep right?


I think Bregman will win in the AL. Bellinger in the NL.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:35 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Quote:
Astros reportedly had sign-stealing system for when they couldn’t hear banging noises

There has been no shortage of video evidence supporting the claims that the Houston Astros stole signs and relayed them to hitters by banging on a trash can back in 2017, but what would happen in situations where the crowd was too loud? Apparently they had a separate system in place for that.

Free-agent third baseman Trevor Plouffe says he was told by former Boston Red Sox pitcher Carson Smith and a separate source that the Astros incorporated their bullpen catcher if the environment at Minute Maid Park was too loud for hitters to hear the banging noise being relayed from between the home dugout and clubhouse. According to the claim, the Astros would have someone watch the live feed of the camera that was focused on the opposing team’s catcher and then relay the signs to their bullpen catcher, who was wearing an ear piece. The bullpen catcher would then put his hands up on the outfield fence if a fastball was coming and keep them down if it was an off-speed pitch.

https://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/astros-sign-stealing-system-couldnt-hear-banging/523592


Wow. It keeps getting worse for them. Now they are using earpieces too. Can't wait to hear about how someone knew cheating like this was happening and betting on it. Then the wheels truly come off.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:21 pm    Post subject:

Bellinger wins NL MVP. AL MVP to be announced in about 25 minutes.
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aprevo15
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:23 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Bellinger wins NL MVP. AL MVP to be announced in about 25 minutes.


Congrats Belli. Well deserved.
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AD23
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:25 pm    Post subject:

Cody won the MVP clean and honest!
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Surfitall
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:25 pm    Post subject:

aprevo15 wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Bellinger wins NL MVP. AL MVP to be announced in about 25 minutes.


Congrats Belli. Well deserved.


Awesome to hear!
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4stargeneralbulldog
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:51 pm    Post subject:

I hope Trout wins it in the AL. Bregman, like it or not is considered to be too tainted.
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:53 pm    Post subject:

4stargeneralbulldog wrote:
I hope Trout wins it in the AL. Bregman, like it or not is considered to be too tainted.


I'm happy to be wrong: Trout won! Got 17 of the 30 1st-place votes, with Bregman getting the other 13.
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AllorNothing
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:10 pm    Post subject:

My god. They are also investigating Boston for cheating? Connection with alex cora?
No wonder the dodgers lost two world series in a row.
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4stargeneralbulldog
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:39 pm    Post subject:

IF anyone is interested, r/baseball on Reddit compiled a lot of videos that confirms the Astros hitters knew what pitches were coming, yes this also involves the 2017 World Series where Kershaw and Darvish were lit up.

https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/dw1u4g/astros_sign_stealing_video_footage_megathread_for/?sort=confidence
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DuncanIdaho
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:50 pm    Post subject:

AllorNothing wrote:
My god. They are also investigating Boston for cheating? Connection with alex cora?
No wonder the dodgers lost two world series in a row.


What a punch in the gut, god
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:51 pm    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
aprevo15 wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Bellinger wins NL MVP. AL MVP to be announced in about 25 minutes.


Congrats Belli. Well deserved.


Awesome to hear!


Super happy for Cody and the team. It wasn't super close either!
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:00 pm    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
AllorNothing wrote:
My god. They are also investigating Boston for cheating? Connection with alex cora?
No wonder the dodgers lost two world series in a row.


What a punch in the gut, god


Wow. The Cora connection is especially noteworthy.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:11 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
AllorNothing wrote:
My god. They are also investigating Boston for cheating? Connection with alex cora?
No wonder the dodgers lost two world series in a row.


What a punch in the gut, god


Wow. The Cora connection is especially noteworthy.


And I used to salivate over the Astros hitters. (bleep) Altuve and the lot of them.
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