Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32136 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:19 pm Post subject:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
i would love MadBum on this team. he's a better younger version of Verlander. can't believe MadBum is only 30 years old, he's only 1-2 years older than Cole.
Nah. MadBum throws 91 MPH. That doesn't mean he can't still be somewhat effective, but he's not a horse/ace anymore.
All these talks about Dodgers going after Rendon is giving me a headache. Can we just get a new skipper and call it a day? I like our team just the way it is (Well minus Kenley but I think he will come around to being his former self). With a new manager I think we'll get over the hump. Don't get me wrong. Roberts did a good job getting us there. We just need someone else that can get us over the top.
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32136 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:19 pm Post subject:
aprevo15 wrote:
All these talks about Dodgers going after Rendon is giving me a headache. Can we just get a new skipper and call it a day? I like our team just the way it is (Well minus Kenley but I think he will come around to being his former self). With a new manager I think we'll get over the hump. Don't get me wrong. Roberts did a good job getting us there. We just need someone else that can get us over the top.
I think we need Cole more than Rendon, but I'm all in favor of spending money. The owners have the money to be able to go into the luxury tax, I assure you. They just haven't wanted to for the past couple of years. If not Rendon, I wonder if the Dodgers would consider Josh Donaldson as a cheaper alternative. He's still in line for a high AAV after a strong campaign with the Braves that was not that far off from his Toronto heyday, but probably won't require more than 3 years. His defense is excellent and if the aim is to get JT off of third base and install him at first, that would go a long way. It also fits the Dodger model of not handing out long-term deals at high AAV's. I guess it also explains the rumors of paying Rendon $40MM a year but only for 5 years.
The idea of Rendon or Donaldson at 3B and trading for Lindor at SS does make me a little happy inside, I won't lie. I just wonder what such a plan would mean for Lux, since it means JT has to play first and Muncy has to play second. Perhaps he would be the piece with Seager that gets Lindor here.
All these talks about Dodgers going after Rendon is giving me a headache. Can we just get a new skipper and call it a day? I like our team just the way it is (Well minus Kenley but I think he will come around to being his former self). With a new manager I think we'll get over the hump. Don't get me wrong. Roberts did a good job getting us there. We just need someone else that can get us over the top.
I think we need Cole more than Rendon, but I'm all in favor of spending money. The owners have the money to be able to go into the luxury tax, I assure you. They just haven't wanted to for the past couple of years. If not Rendon, I wonder if the Dodgers would consider Josh Donaldson as a cheaper alternative. He's still in line for a high AAV after a strong campaign with the Braves that was not that far off from his Toronto heyday, but probably won't require more than 3 years. His defense is excellent and if the aim is to get JT off of third base and install him at first, that would go a long way. It also fits the Dodger model of not handing out long-term deals at high AAV's. I guess it also explains the rumors of paying Rendon $40MM a year but only for 5 years.
The idea of Rendon or Donaldson at 3B and trading for Lindor at SS does make me a little happy inside, I won't lie. I just wonder what such a plan would mean for Lux, since it means JT has to play first and Muncy has to play second. Perhaps he would be the piece with Seager that gets Lindor here.
Not just Lux but Kike as well.
Maybe keep Lux at AAA to start the yr to preserve/manipulate service time?
Lux n Seager for Lindor would be silly.
Is there room to pay both Rendon n Lindor $200M+?
Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
All these talks about Dodgers going after Rendon is giving me a headache. Can we just get a new skipper and call it a day? I like our team just the way it is (Well minus Kenley but I think he will come around to being his former self). With a new manager I think we'll get over the hump. Don't get me wrong. Roberts did a good job getting us there. We just need someone else that can get us over the top.
I think we need Cole more than Rendon, but I'm all in favor of spending money. The owners have the money to be able to go into the luxury tax, I assure you. They just haven't wanted to for the past couple of years. If not Rendon, I wonder if the Dodgers would consider Josh Donaldson as a cheaper alternative. He's still in line for a high AAV after a strong campaign with the Braves that was not that far off from his Toronto heyday, but probably won't require more than 3 years. His defense is excellent and if the aim is to get JT off of third base and install him at first, that would go a long way. It also fits the Dodger model of not handing out long-term deals at high AAV's. I guess it also explains the rumors of paying Rendon $40MM a year but only for 5 years.
The idea of Rendon or Donaldson at 3B and trading for Lindor at SS does make me a little happy inside, I won't lie. I just wonder what such a plan would mean for Lux, since it means JT has to play first and Muncy has to play second. Perhaps he would be the piece with Seager that gets Lindor here.
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32136 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:51 pm Post subject:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
aprevo15 wrote:
All these talks about Dodgers going after Rendon is giving me a headache. Can we just get a new skipper and call it a day? I like our team just the way it is (Well minus Kenley but I think he will come around to being his former self). With a new manager I think we'll get over the hump. Don't get me wrong. Roberts did a good job getting us there. We just need someone else that can get us over the top.
I think we need Cole more than Rendon, but I'm all in favor of spending money. The owners have the money to be able to go into the luxury tax, I assure you. They just haven't wanted to for the past couple of years. If not Rendon, I wonder if the Dodgers would consider Josh Donaldson as a cheaper alternative. He's still in line for a high AAV after a strong campaign with the Braves that was not that far off from his Toronto heyday, but probably won't require more than 3 years. His defense is excellent and if the aim is to get JT off of third base and install him at first, that would go a long way. It also fits the Dodger model of not handing out long-term deals at high AAV's. I guess it also explains the rumors of paying Rendon $40MM a year but only for 5 years.
The idea of Rendon or Donaldson at 3B and trading for Lindor at SS does make me a little happy inside, I won't lie. I just wonder what such a plan would mean for Lux, since it means JT has to play first and Muncy has to play second. Perhaps he would be the piece with Seager that gets Lindor here.
Not just Lux but Kike as well.
Keep Lux at AAA to start the yr to preserve/manipulate service time?
Well, if we got Lindor and signed a star 3B, there just isn't any playing time for Lux on the Dodgers for the 2020 season, unless they are willing to trade Muncy or JT this season (remarkably unlikely). JT's contract does expire after the 2020 season, so perhaps it's not completely out of the question that they could keep Lux in the minors for most of next season, that's true, with an eye on moving Muncy back to first base in 2021 and just letting JT walk. But if they can keep all of their other prospects in a Lindor deal, maybe they would actually find trading just Seager and Lux and nobody else as more palatable. Lux would be a great fit for the Indians because they need cheap, controllable talent as they are always on a budget a bit, and also because they have a hole at 2B.
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32136 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:01 pm Post subject:
LBPoly, to answer your question about whether there is room to give both Rendon and Lindor $200MM contracts, my guess is that they wouldn't do that. So it would be Rendon for, let's say, 5 seasons, and Lindor for the next 2 before he departs as a free agent. However, perhaps this is why the Donaldson idea could make sense, if, again, the Dodgers don't think JT can handle third base anymore. If Donaldson were only on the books for 3 seasons (at, say, roughly $25MM a season), perhaps they would then feel confident about paying Lindor big money when he's a free agent after the 2021 season (or extending him before then).
Keep in mind, too, that the Dodgers are going to have to pay Bellinger big money after 2023 and Buehler the same after 2024. Maybe after 2024, you could have Lindor, Bellinger, and Buehler as the big-ticket players on your club. That's also another reason that perhaps Rendon makes sense on a 5-year deal because it would expire after the 2024 season, before Buehler might start to make megabucks.
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32136 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:09 pm Post subject:
Another thing worth pointing out is that Donaldson is about to turn 34, so a 3-year deal would have him playing during his age 34-35-36 seasons, while Rendon is about 4 and a half years younger. Having said that, Rendon's WAR last season was 6.3, while Donaldson's was also a robust 6.1. I have no idea if Donaldson would have interest in the Dodgers, but in my own humble speculation, such a player on a 3-year deal would make a lot of sense to Dodger management.
LBPoly, to answer your question about whether there is room to give both Rendon and Lindor $200MM contracts, my guess is that they wouldn't do that. So it would be Rendon for, let's say, 5 seasons, and Lindor for the next 2 before he departs as a free agent. However, perhaps this is why the Donaldson idea could make sense, if, again, the Dodgers don't think JT can handle third base anymore. If Donaldson were only on the books for 3 seasons (at, say, roughly $25MM a season), perhaps they would then feel confident about paying Lindor big money when he's a free agent after the 2021 season (or extending him before then).
Keep in mind, too, that the Dodgers are going to have to pay Bellinger big money after 2023 and Buehler the same after 2024. Maybe after 2024, you could have Lindor, Bellinger, and Buehler as the big-ticket players on your club. That's also another reason that perhaps Rendon makes sense on a 5-year deal because it would expire after the 2024 season, before Buehler might start to make megabucks.
Lots to ponder!
Yeah
There’s also a logjam in the outfield.
Verdugo, Pollock, Pederson, Bellinger
What do you do with Chris Taylor and Kike?
I think both are estimated to make over $5M next year. That’s alot for bench players.
If we do sign Rendon and move JT to 1st, we’d have 7 everyday players and 1 platoon position (LF)
3B - Rendon
SS - Seager or Lindor
2B - Muncy
1B - Turner
LF - Pollock/Pederson
CF - Verdugo
RF - Bellinger
C - Smith
Barring injury, there’s just not many ABs left for Kike, Taylor, n Lux right now (if they sign Rendon)
Man, I forgot about Matt Beaty as well
Would they trade Taylor and Kike to save $10M?
Would they rather have Lux playing everyday in the minors or sitting on the bench in the majors getting pinch hit ABs here and there?
Would they actually trade Lux after only getting to see him play in the majors for one month?
Also, getting rid of all three of Taylor, Kike, and Lux would leave the Dodgers w/o a backup SS (unless they bring up Negron).
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32136 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:16 pm Post subject:
^
I don't see them trading both Taylor and Kike. Perhaps one of them. I also wouldn't rule out that Joc finally gets moved, given his salary in his final year of arb and given that Verdugo can fill his position just fine (less power but better AB's from game-to-game, and can hit lefties). Doesn't make sense to use up Lux's service time on the bench where he'll get cold; he should either start or be in the minors (or traded). Beaty's a nice piece to have but shouldn't be guaranteed anything but utility AB's. It wouldn't totally shock me if they attempt to move Pollock, though they'd have to surely eat some money there.
^
I don't see them trading both Taylor and Kike. Perhaps one of them. I also wouldn't rule out that Joc finally gets moved, given his salary in his final year of arb and given that Verdugo can fill his position just fine (less power but better AB's from game-to-game, and can hit lefties). Doesn't make sense to use up Lux's service time on the bench where he'll get cold; he should either start or be in the minors (or traded). Beaty's a nice piece to have but shouldn't be guaranteed anything but utility AB's. It wouldn't totally shock me if they attempt to move Pollock, though they'd have to surely eat some money there.
Yeah, I agree, it would be hard to get rid of both. However, when you really think about it, it doesn't make financial sense to keep either (assuming we signed Rendon).
1) $5M is really high for a bench player that's not in a platoon situation. We paid Freese $5M last year but he was our platoon 1st baseman.
2) You're eventually going to have to make a decision on Taylor and Kike. They are coming up on free agency and they'll just get more and more expensive. If you do keep them, it'll probably be at most 1 more year.
3) Replacement - the Dodgers highly value versatility. Luckily, they have a pretty cheap replacement in Negron.
4) Money - potentially saving $10M is no small matter. $10M can get you a really good reliever
5) Prospects - trading Kike and Taylor can bring back something good to replenish the farm. They are both potential everyday players who would have more value to other teams than to the Dodgers.
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32136 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:52 pm Post subject:
Yes, the Dodgers may not want to go over the luxury tax, but I doubt they are sweating paying one of Taylor or Kike about $5MM. With the way the Dodgers utilize these guys--especially if only one of them were on the team--that guy would be highly likely to get more than 400 AB's. Taylor provided 2.4 WAR last season in 414 PA's (366 AB's), and that's easily worth $5MM.
^
I don't see them trading both Taylor and Kike. Perhaps one of them. I also wouldn't rule out that Joc finally gets moved, given his salary in his final year of arb and given that Verdugo can fill his position just fine (less power but better AB's from game-to-game, and can hit lefties). Doesn't make sense to use up Lux's service time on the bench where he'll get cold; he should either start or be in the minors (or traded). Beaty's a nice piece to have but shouldn't be guaranteed anything but utility AB's. It wouldn't totally shock me if they attempt to move Pollock, though they'd have to surely eat some money there.
Yeah, I agree, it would be hard to get rid of both. However, when you really think about it, it doesn't make financial sense to keep either (assuming we signed Rendon).
1) $5M is really high for a bench player that's not in a platoon situation. We paid Freese $5M last year but he was our platoon 1st baseman.
2) You're eventually going to have to make a decision on Taylor and Kike. They are coming up on free agency and they'll just get more and more expensive. If you do keep them, it'll probably be at most 1 more year.
3) Replacement - the Dodgers highly value versatility. Luckily, they have a pretty cheap replacement in Negron.
4) Money - potentially saving $10M is no small matter. $10M can get you a really good reliever
5) Prospects - trading Kike and Taylor can bring back something good to replenish the farm. They are both potential everyday players who would have more value to other teams than to the Dodgers.
Seagar gets you more back than either Kike or Taylor in trade. Taylor can handle SS just fine maybe better than Seagar. He's also a decent hitter that will improve with more at bats IMO. He will also probably cost considerably less than a Seagar extension of a Lindor contract. And it will be a net plus in what you get back.
I agree there will probably be some move with Joc and he could get you something good in return. If the Dodgers are really in on a Mookie Betts deal as some rumours indicate, it could involve some combination Verdugo, Lux or May as the Sox try to trim salary.
Yes, the Dodgers may not want to go over the luxury tax, but I doubt they are sweating paying one of Taylor or Kike about $5MM. With the way the Dodgers utilize these guys--especially if only one of them were on the team--that guy would be highly likely to get more than 400 AB's. Taylor provided 2.4 WAR last season in 414 PA's (366 AB's), and that's easily worth $5MM.
Taylor didn't get 414 PA due to how he was utilized. He got them due to injuries. Most of their value is as injury replacements.
Taylor got most of those ABs after Seager, Pollock, Verdugo, and Turner went down. We started the year with Pederson/Taylor platooning in LF. Verdugo wasn't an everyday player yet. Pollock was penciled in as the everyday CF.
This year, I believe Verdugo and Bellinger are everyday outfielders. Pederson and Pollock would be platoons in LF (if Pederson isn't traded). So barring injuries, there is no playing time for Taylor/Kike in the outfield.
Similarly in the infield with 4 everyday players (assuming we sign Rendon), there's not much playing time, aside from the occasional spot start, late inning defensive replacement, and pinch hitting duties (barring injuries).
So most of their value will be as injury replacements. And yes, injuries happen every year so it is of major value. But we do have other very cheap alternatives: White, Negron, Beaty, Lux, Rios
And yeah, $5M, $10M might not sound like much, but we can look back at how Pollock's contract was structured:
Last year, they gave Pollock a $12M signing bonus and a $1M base salary. This counted $4M against the CBT.
This year Pollock counts $15M against the CBT. So clearly, they cared about creating $11M in room last year. If they hadn't had that room, maybe they don't sign Kelly last year.
This is just another way that they might want to create $10M in room this year.
^
I don't see them trading both Taylor and Kike. Perhaps one of them. I also wouldn't rule out that Joc finally gets moved, given his salary in his final year of arb and given that Verdugo can fill his position just fine (less power but better AB's from game-to-game, and can hit lefties). Doesn't make sense to use up Lux's service time on the bench where he'll get cold; he should either start or be in the minors (or traded). Beaty's a nice piece to have but shouldn't be guaranteed anything but utility AB's. It wouldn't totally shock me if they attempt to move Pollock, though they'd have to surely eat some money there.
Yeah, I agree, it would be hard to get rid of both. However, when you really think about it, it doesn't make financial sense to keep either (assuming we signed Rendon).
1) $5M is really high for a bench player that's not in a platoon situation. We paid Freese $5M last year but he was our platoon 1st baseman.
2) You're eventually going to have to make a decision on Taylor and Kike. They are coming up on free agency and they'll just get more and more expensive. If you do keep them, it'll probably be at most 1 more year.
3) Replacement - the Dodgers highly value versatility. Luckily, they have a pretty cheap replacement in Negron.
4) Money - potentially saving $10M is no small matter. $10M can get you a really good reliever
5) Prospects - trading Kike and Taylor can bring back something good to replenish the farm. They are both potential everyday players who would have more value to other teams than to the Dodgers.
Seagar gets you more back than either Kike or Taylor in trade. Taylor can handle SS just fine maybe better than Seagar. He's also a decent hitter that will improve with more at bats IMO. He will also probably cost considerably less than a Seagar extension of a Lindor contract. And it will be a net plus in what you get back.
I agree there will probably be some move with Joc and he could get you something good in return. If the Dodgers are really in on a Mookie Betts deal as some rumours indicate, it could involve some combination Verdugo, Lux or May as the Sox try to trim salary.
Yeah, if you're advocating moving Seager to start Taylor, that's something different.
$5M for a starting SS is a bargain. I won't disagree with that.
I'm saying if there's no place for Taylor or Kike to play, then having them on the bench as injury replacements is an expensive luxury more than a necessity.
Think about what you're saying. If you really believe Taylor is a quality starting SS in this league, even better than Seager, and under team control for 2 more years, then we should be able to extract some good value for him.
It should be more value than having him sit on the bench all season if no one gets injured.
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32136 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:05 pm Post subject:
^
I'm not a huge Seager fan relative to his perception, but he's still a better player than Taylor. Pretty comfortably.
The one advantage we may have over other teams that may attempt to try to trade for Lindor is that those other teams don't have a SS that they can offer back to the Indians who is close to as good as Seager, and Seager and Lindor are on the exact same service time clock (both free agents after 2021). Since the Indians want to remain competitive, this helps us. Yeah, we could offer Taylor or Kike, but then we'd need to send them a ton more in the way of prospects to get something done.
The Houston Astros used a center-field camera to help steal signs during their 2017 championship season, a former Astros pitcher told The Athletic, a practice that would have run afoul of rules against using technology for an advantage and could prompt an investigation by Major League Baseball.
Mike Fiers, who now pitches for the Oakland A's, told the website that he warned teammates with the Detroit Tigers and A's that Astros hitters had used a video feed piped into a monitor near the dugout to decode signs and relay them to hitters during games.
Will be interesting to see what the MLB does about it....stealing signs isn't against MLB rules, but the Astros went far above and beyond what is allowed.
Wow. So pretty much the 2017 championship is ours.
MLB should do what the NCAA does - make them vacate their title
Quote:
Carlos Beltran: Astros stole signs in 2017, but not illegally
SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. — Carlos Beltran, a member of the 2017 Astros, denied knowledge of a camera that his team allegedly used to electronically steal signs that season, claiming that the World Series champions stole signs organically and legally.
“I’m not aware of that camera,” Beltran told The Post in a text message exchange. “We were studying the opposite team every day.”
A report on The Athletic, which included whistleblowing quotes from former Astro right-hander Mike Fiers, described a camera that was positioned in the outfield at Minute Maid Park. According to the story, Astros personnel deciphered and relayed signs to hitters through a banging-on-trash-can signal.
Beltran, who is well-regarded for his baseball IQ and was named Mets manager earlier this offseason, insisted the Astros only stole signs from standing on second base.
“We took a lot of pride studying pitchers [on] the computer. That is the only technology that I use and understand,” he said. “It was fun seeing guys get to the ballpark to look for little details.
“The game of baseball for years, guys have given location and if the catchers get lazy and the pitcher doesn’t cover the signs from second base [then] of course players are going to take advantage. I don’t call that cheating. I call that using small details to take advantage. I think baseball is doing a great job adding new technology to make sure the game is even for both teams. It’s easy to blame someone when they win.”
Astros manager AJ Hinch declined comment on the report.
Jomboy Media just posted a video evidencing the Astros sign stealing vs. the White Sox.
Seems like they would relay the information to the hitters via a bang on the bat rack.
Anytime there's a changeup, there would be a banging sound.
Look at the video, it's pretty convincing. And this refutes Beltran saying it's only when there's a guy on 2nd base.
There's no one on base!
This is pretty convincing evidence, take a look
Quote:
“There was a banging from the dugout, almost like a bat hitting the bat rack every time a changeup signal got put down,” said Farquhar, who is now the pitching coach with the White Sox’s High-A affiliate in Winston-Salem, N.C. “After the third one, I stepped off. I was throwing some really good changeups and they were getting fouled off. After the third bang, I stepped off.”
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 32136 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:54 pm Post subject:
^
Seems like a lot of controversy finds this organization. I'm guessing that a major fine will end up being enforced here, as well as a loss of draft picks and international bonus pool money/signings. Remember, this is a former player of theirs who is openly talking about this, not just some allegation by an opposing player.
Last edited by ChickenStu on Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:54 pm Post subject:
They banned Pete rose for life for betting on himself. The astros should lose their draft picks for at least 3 years, vacate all their division titles since 2017 and have a asterisk posted next to their World Series Championship. (bleep) that team. _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good
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