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LAkers 4 Life
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:26 pm    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
Oh and as for the Dodgers not having any fight, they took a much bigger blow in game 4 of this series than they ever took during the season or in the NLCS. I’m sure the players cared but I was disappointed with the effort in game 5. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were still in shock.

And that's exactly what happens that becomes a permanent imprint in your subconscious.

I don't want to trivialize this, since it's a real illness that our troops who serve our country are suffering with, but it's almost like PTSD. When you're in the environment again, or a different environment that reminds you of the one that was a traumatic experience, something happens mentally where even if things are going well enough, you'll relive the traumatic experience on some level and it will translate in a bad way into your actions.

If I'm the Dodgers FO this is something I'm discussing in terms of, how will we prevent this from actually happening, starting now. How will we train these players mentally when spring training starts so that they'll be positive and full of swag when they face adversity in the WS?

I know this all sounds like serious psychobabble, but if we talk to any pro athlete, especially a retired one who now has perspective, they'll tell us that all this is true and maybe the biggest difference between winning and finishing second.


Hmm... it certainly is the case with the 2002 sacramento kings. It looked the same with the 2014 san jose sharks, but then they changed coaches and got to the finals and have re-tooled their team to become a more serious title threat. The Dodgers front office might take a look at some of the lessons learned there, even though san jose still hasn't won it all.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:29 pm    Post subject:

One observation:
If the cost of having October Puig on your team is to suffer through the occasional midseason TOOTBLAN, it's well worth it. Sign him beyond the arbitration year.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:09 am    Post subject:

Kershaw has lost it completely but that doesn’t mean he’s done for good. He might adjust and become better. I hope he opts in..i believe that’s the best case scenario. But I think they may mutually decide to part ways. End of a sweet sweet era. Will miss Kersh a lot.

Dave is just a figurehead. Zaidi/Friedman run this team. Still I want to fire Dave.

Kenley had a lot going on this year. He was hot trash for several parts of the season so I don’t link his failures to choking. Same with kerhsaw...from game 1 of the reg season he just didn’t have “it”.

I prefer Muncy over Cody at 1B. Package Belli with someone and send him out. Belli is awesome ...just like Kuzma - but he’s easily replaceable.

Manny is def not coming back and as Stu said it’s mutual.

No room for Bryce on this team and he’s another inconsistent bat.

Lastly: say what you want about the FO - but our immaculate run last year was not expected. We overachieved and squeezed juice out of a lot of scrubs. We did the same thing this year. It just didn’t work out. I don’t feel like we are severely stacked with talent at all - so I have to give the FO some credit for helping us overachieve.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:24 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
No guarantee this team will be back in the World Series next year.....it could get ugly if they have the same roster with no major shakeups.


Why ugly? Arizona is blowing it up. SF has an old roster.

It's between Rockies and Dodgers again.

Dodgers have the most talented roster in the NL West. Pretty much everyone is coming back.

Urias will be a starter again. Buehler will be the new ace. Ryu might be back.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:25 am    Post subject:

leor_77 wrote:
4stargeneralbulldog wrote:
leor_77 wrote:
As I said in the 2018 thread, silver lining is that baseball isn't as popular and the talking heads/talk shows will have moved on completely by Wednesday.


Yes, I've read this same quote multiple times now. And BTW, that's not true.


Yes it is. First Take and Undisputed will talk about it for probably 10 minutes tomorrow, and then just talk about NBA/NFL.


Yeah, this is true. They don't really focus on baseball much. This won't be mentioned beyond next week.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:27 am    Post subject:

leor_77 wrote:
I think we need to gut our team of the playoff chokers...Kershaw, Jansen, etc. Keep guys like Buehler, Hill, Baez, Turner, Puig, Seager, Urias, etc., and build on that core.

The chokers have proved that no matter what, when the going gets tough, they will just choke again. I feel like, at this point, the best sports psychologists could not fix their fragile mentality in big games.


Baez being a part of the "perfomers" list is ironic.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:28 am    Post subject:

bertrome wrote:
Get rid of Turner Ward. Ain't winning crap with home run or nothing approach.


hr or nothing approach is a FO philosophy. Whoever they hire will have to adhere to that philosophy.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:31 am    Post subject:

4stargeneralbulldog wrote:
leor_77 wrote:
4stargeneralbulldog wrote:
leor_77 wrote:
As I said in the 2018 thread, silver lining is that baseball isn't as popular and the talking heads/talk shows will have moved on completely by Wednesday.


Yes, I've read this same quote multiple times now. And BTW, that's not true.


Yes it is. First Take and Undisputed will talk about it for probably 10 minutes tomorrow, and then just talk about NBA/NFL.


*sighs*

The whole baseball/MLB isn't popular or dying canard is getting tiresome.

If a sport isn't popular or is dying it wouldn't have record breaking revenues for 15 years in a row, now exceeding $10 billion. It's overall revenue is just only behind the NFL. MLB is the 2nd most profitable sports league in the world. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2017/11/22/mlb-revenues-exceed-10-billion/890041001/
And that's last year's numbers.

And for many years MLB broke it's overall attendance numbers, although the last 3 years saw a slight dip due to things like hurricanes/natural disasters and some teams going to crap. But overall MLB is very healthy.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2017/10/02/final-2017-mlb-attendance-dips-below-73-million-for-first-time-since-2002/#251f379c326f

Also take note, MLB hasn't sign new TV contracts, which will more than likely increase revenues, much like the NBA signing new contracts and increasing its revenues even further.

I can't find the link right now which I actually read on ESPN a few months back, but the most participated sports for youngsters in the past 6 or 7 years in the US? Yep, it's baseball. So the next Cody Bellingers, Manny Machados, Mookie Betts, will replenish MLB's talent.

Baseball at all levels is very healthy, even at the international level where it's a top 2 sport in many Latin American countries and the number 1 sport in East Asian countries such as Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, where they also send their best players to the US.

Baseball isn't popular? The numbers says otherwise.


He didn't say baseball isn't popular or it's dying.

He said it isn't AS popular. Do you disagree? Is baseball as popular today as it was in the past?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:44 am    Post subject:

LAkers 4 Life wrote:
BirdMagicLegend wrote:
Again with 2010? First of all, Perkins went down for Game 6 and 7 and that basically lost the Celtics game 6 as the players were shell shocked. In Game 7, we lost the rebounding war to the Lakers badly with no Perkins but were still winning. All of a sudden in the 4th quarter, the refs start calling ticky tack fouls on the Celtics and Pau Gasol is flopping like mad which eventually allows a comeback by the Lakers with Kobe shooting a horrible 6-24. If anything the Celtics had more adversity in that series as even KG was not 100% himself.

Oh well, we have 2008 and now 2018 with the Red Sox 4-1 winners over the Dodgers.


Why are you on a Lakers site whining about a series 8 years ago in a Dodgers thread? It takes a special kind of asshat to decide on the night his team wins the freakin' World Series to go to an opponent's site to (bleep) about a long ago series just to poor salt on the wounds in another sport. Stop being a classless tool hijacking a thread over a topic that has nothing to do with the current topic.


What? I didn't bring up 2010 in this topic. You can look at your fellow Dodger fan Steve007 and thank him for that. Actually if you look at my historical posts right after Game 7 2010, you'll see that I was actually gracious and congratulated you LA fans. I did not bring up the officiating at all because it would have looked like soul grapes. Check it out here.

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=112841&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Of course now that your fellow fans bring it up 8 years later in a Dodger topic to make themselves feel better, I feel like I can respond with my opinion of that game and how one sided the officiating was in one quarter. Still whatever, Lakers won in 2010 and we got 2008. Let's see how it plays out in the future between Boston and LA.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:51 am    Post subject:

I’m not convinced there will be PTSDish residue from this loss. I hate to admit it, but the Red Sox were clearly the better team. Look at how close the series was with the Brewers. This series didn’t feel close. It could have been closer if it weren’t for the blunders by Roberts, but we truly were the underdogs and the Red Sox took care of business.

If we were evenly matched and lost in a heartbreaking fashion like we did last year, I’d agree, but this one didn’t tear out the endocrine system like last season did.

There is something to be said for having World Series experience. This team now has players who know what it’s like and can learn and improve from the experience. I wouldn’t blow everything up, but nobody should be untouchable either.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:55 am    Post subject:

BirdMagicLegend wrote:
From a Boston fan perspective...

Actually so the Red Sox were big losers while winning the division the last two years as they were swept or destroyed in the first two rounds by the Indians and Astros respectively. I went games and the team had no fire and seemed to be sleepwalking through the games.

We can trace it all back to our manager at the time John Farrell. He was a great regular season manager but was out managed and out coached in the postseason two years in a row but they couldn't fire him easily because of the Sox winning in 2013 which you could say the marathon bombing and Boston Strong played a larger role in that win.

So Farrell is gone and this year they went out to get Alex Cora. The rest is history. I love Roberts for 2004 but sometimes it seems that he relies a bit too much on baseball analytics. He should also go on instinct if situation deems it necessary.

And no way, no one is worse than Grady Little.


Who (bleep) cares?

Go away.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:59 am    Post subject:

Vishnu wrote:
I think Kershaw has 10 and 5 rights so he's tough to trade. He also has a clause in his contract that allows him to be a fee agent after 1 year.

Honestly, other than Grandal and maybe Machado, I'd bring everyone back. I think this is a good team. We just ran into a better one. We do need to either trade Verdugo or trade someone else to make room for him. He needs to be in the bigs.


Standing pat would be a mistake.

This team needs some major changes as ChickenStu pointed out.

Obviously we need a new closer and a new catcher for sure.

As far as Kershaw, my guess is we are stuck with him, but it is time to tell him to pipe down if he doesn't start Game 1 of a series or such, he has proven he cannot be counted on in pressure situations and is not our ace.

The Manager needs to go, but I expect them to go the path of least resistance and keep him.

All this talk that the Red Sox were unbeatable is BS. The Dodgers could have and should have won Games 2 and 4 with even semi competent managing and typical pitching perfomances.

The Red Sox flopping and rolling around on the field (Nunez bringing back memories of wheelchair Paul Pierce) was typically classless Boston B.S.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:27 am    Post subject:

What will 2019 bring? I suspect a lot of changes, but they must be the right ones and I have never been confident that this management team, with their throw the spaghetti against the wall approach, will improve the team.

I want and expect Kersh to stay and retire as a Dodger. Some act like he is now just garbage, when he was, even with his back issues, fourth in the league in ERA (with but two more outs to qualify). He may no longer be an ace, but he is still damned good. I continue to wonder about his health and how that relates to his fast ball. I think there is a direct link that the public has not been made aware of.

I would like to see Ryu back, but I don't see a large long-turn contract--maybe 2 years at $15M. Hill will be gone, and his last game, one of his very best, will be remembered oh so well. Wood is still under contract as is Maeda and Stripling. With Kersh, Urias and Buehler, that's a pretty good start.

Grandal is almost certainly gone (but he frames so well . . .) but I don't see anyone better out there to replace him, so that is something like going from bad to worse. I don't think any of their three young catchers (Ruiz, Smith, or Cartaya) will be ready.

I'm OK with either Kike or Taylor at second, as both have outperformed the transplants, Dozier and Forsythe, but management should be on the lookout.

I'd look to see what kind of offers the team could get for either Muncy or Bellinger, but it would have to be a trade for someone of need--a top notch closer, a catcher, and outfielder who can play defense and hit for average.

I'm keeping Kenley. He barely pitched in spring training and by the time he seem to get back in form he had the heart murmur. Of course, the team needs more help here. Letting Morrow go was the greatest mistake that management made this year.

No Machado. I never wanted him to begin with. As good as he his, I just never felt he was a team guy.

As to Roberts, I'm ambivalent. I didn't rave about him as did others when he first came and I'm not ready to tar and feather him as do others now. He's average--not too good, not too bad. I would say this though, I'd have about a gagillion practices with every hitter hitting every pitch the other way. Gonzo used to be good at that, as is Turner and Freeze, but the rest are just let 'er rip kinda guys.

Though the team really appeared to have fun and have each other's backs, something is missing and has been. But I can't seem to figure what exactly it is. Maybe it is a combination of things such as having all of these similar type of home run/strike out hitters, Roberts'/management's managing style, management in general, or just back luck, such as having their best two pitchers let them down at crucial times (for whatever reasons, but I suspect health is involved with both), I just don't know.


Last edited by ribeye on Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:35 am    Post subject:

BirdMagicLegend wrote:


What? I didn't bring up 2010 in this topic. You can look at your fellow Dodger fan Steve007 and thank him for that.


It was on my mind because you were talking about that series on page 332 in the other thread. And it was useful for the point I was making. If you don’t like my example, then fine. That Laker team faced adversity against Phoenix and OKC in the earlier rounds and overcame that to win.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:42 am    Post subject:

Not sure how I feel about Kershaw. He does dominate in the regular season and will help a team get in the playoffs. It’s a major reason the team wins the division year after year.

But I don’t want to see him be the #1 or #2 guy in the postseason. Other guys need to step up.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
BirdMagicLegend wrote:


What? I didn't bring up 2010 in this topic. You can look at your fellow Dodger fan Steve007 and thank him for that.


It was on my mind because you were talking about that series on page 332 in the other thread. And it was useful for the point I was making. If you don’t like my example, then fine. That Laker team faced adversity against Phoenix and OKC in the earlier rounds and overcame that to win.


I didn't bring it up first. slavavov brought it up on page 331 saying we'll always have Game 7 2010 over Boston or something like that so I only responded to that post with my opinion and perspective.

Actually, I don't mind you bringing it up as an example but some of your fellow fans are getting on my case for responding to 2010 and going off topic.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:49 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
What will 2019 bring? I suspect a lot of changes, but they must be the right ones and I have never been confident that this management team, with their throw the spaghetti against the wall approach, will improve the team.

I want and expect Kersh to stay and retire as a Dodger. Some act like he is now just garbage, when he was, even with his back issues, fourth in the league in ERA (with but two more outs to qualify). He may no longer be an ace, but he is still damned good. I continue to wonder about his health and how that relates to his fast ball. I think there is a direct link that the public has not been made aware of.

I would like to see Ryu back, but I don't see a large long-turn contract--maybe 2 years at $15M. Hill will be gone, and his last game, one of his very best, will be remembered oh so well. Wood is still under contract as is Maeda and Stripling. With Kersh, Urias and Buehler, that's a pretty good start.

Grandal is almost certainly gone (but he frames so well . . .) but I don't see anyone better out there to replace him, so that is something like going from bad to worse. I don't think any of their three young catchers (Ruiz, Smith, or Cartaya) will be ready.

I'm OK with either Kike or Taylor at second, as both have outperformed the transplants, Dozier and Forsythe, but management should be on the lookout.

I'd look to see what kind of offers the team could get for either Muncy or Bellinger, but it would have to be a trade for someone of need--a top notch closer, a catcher, and outfielder who can play defense and hit for average.

I'm keeping Kenley. He barely pitched in spring training and by the time he seem to get back in form he had the heart murmur. Of course, the team needs more help here. Letting Morrow go was the greatest mistake that management made this year.

No Machado. I never wanted him to begin with. As good as he his, I just never felt he was a team guy.

As to Roberts, I'm ambivalent. I didn't rave about him as did others when he first came and I'm not ready to tar and feather him as do others now. He's average--not too good, not too bad. I would say this though, I'd have about a gagillion practices with every hitter hitting every pitch the other way. Gonzo used to be good at that, as is Turner and Freeze, but the rest are just let 'er rip kinda guys.

Though the team really appeared to have fun and have each other's backs, something is missing and has been. But I can't seem to figure what exactly it is. Maybe it is a combination of things such as having all of these similar type of home run/strike out hitters, Roberts'/management's managing style, management in general, or just back luck, such as having their best two pitchers let them down at crucial times (for whatever reasons, but I suspect health is involved with both), I just don't know.


I pretty much agree with all of this.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:05 am    Post subject:

Unless Kenley returns to 2017 regular season form he should not even be considered as a closer in any future postseason game.

I understand he has his heart issue and then issues with the medication messing with him but he was unclutch before that. He gave up home runs in game 2 and 5 against the Astros.

I'm not saying he needs to be 100% on save opportunities; hell, even Mo Rivera has blown games in the WS. But with Mo you knew the other 9 times out of 10 he'd come through. Kenley needs to succeed more often than he fails to be reliable, but he doesn't and he's not. The guy has given up more homers than he has saves in the World Series. He simply cannot be trusted to close big games anymore.

Kershaw is maybe my favorite player but he's also in the same club. His failure rate isn't as high, I'd say he comes through 60-70% of the time but boy does he pick the worst times to have bad games. And his BP never does him any favors with inherited runners. I would still like to keep him but for the postseason he cannot be our #1 anymore.

The thing that hurts most about 2017 (yes, still) is that we didn't even need to get Verlander to win. I firmly believe if we left the team as is and didn't get Darvish we would have won.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject:

I don't see Kershaw opting out unless he really wants to get away from LA and get a fresh start. Only team that might offer him multiple World Series opportunities and will pay to get him is the Yankees. Texas Rangers offer him nothing besides being close to his family.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:09 am    Post subject:

BirdMagicLegend wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
BirdMagicLegend wrote:


What? I didn't bring up 2010 in this topic. You can look at your fellow Dodger fan Steve007 and thank him for that.


It was on my mind because you were talking about that series on page 332 in the other thread. And it was useful for the point I was making. If you don’t like my example, then fine. That Laker team faced adversity against Phoenix and OKC in the earlier rounds and overcame that to win.


I didn't bring it up first. slavavov brought it up on page 331 saying we'll always have Game 7 2010 over Boston or something like that so I only responded to that post with my opinion and perspective.

Actually, I don't mind you bringing it up as an example but some of your fellow fans are getting on my case for responding to 2010 and going off topic.


Just. Go. Away.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:30 am    Post subject:

I think Kershaw renegotiates with the Dodgers. He doesn't opt in or out. I believe that's possible.

I think they'll bring Roberts back. Ultimately, 2 World Series in a row is pretty good and his greatest feat is the ability to manage the egos in the locker room. I think there were at least 5 former all-stars in a platoon this year. It's impressive that they didn't implode.

Grandal is gone. Machado is gone. They have to trade an outfielder and figure out what to do with Muncy. I'd say they'd make a run at Bryce but they have too many outfielders as it is. He'd obviously be the best one but it's not a need.

Jansen makes too much money. I think they just hope he returns to form.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject:

Vishnu wrote:

Jansen makes too much money. I think they just hope he returns to form.


Yes, a point I was going to address, Jansen makes too much money to trade for anyone of much value.

Another point I missed is that I want a prime Chase Utley or two. That is EXACTLY what the team needs.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:03 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
Vishnu wrote:

Jansen makes too much money. I think they just hope he returns to form.


Yes, a point I was going to address, Jansen makes too much money to trade for anyone of much value.

Another point I missed is that I want a prime Chase Utley or two. That is EXACTLY what the team needs.


Yeah...we were thrilled that we got him (and kept him away from the Nats). There's not much you can do here other than just wish him the best of health and hope that he comes back better.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:15 am    Post subject:

Even though an OF isn't necesarrily a need I think we should go after Harper.

An outfield of Harper/Bellinger/Puig is outstanding. Put Freese/Muncy at first and Kike or CT at second. Seager and Turner on the other side. Catcher is the only gaping hole on offense but hopefully Barnes can improve.

We need a new approach from the bats though. JT and Puig seem to be the only guys with quality at bats and aren't swinging for the fences all the time. All of the guys need to work on this.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:05 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
Machado was actually one of the few hitters I felt wasn’t either just HR or strikeout. His World Series hitting was meh but he was far from an automatic out IMO. If it wasn’t for his lazy attitude and the huge contract he will get I’d definitely want him back. But because of the negative stuff I have mixed feelings about him.

Edit: Hmm, on second thought:

Quote:
He was 8 for 28 (.286 batting average) with three home runs and nine RBIs in the four-game NL Division Series against Atlanta and the first three games of the NL Championship Series against Milwaukee. But his production tailed off the rest of the way as he batted .184 (7 for 38) with three RBIs in the remaining nine games.


https://www.google.com/amp/amp.ledger-enquirer.com/sports/article220776525.html

The team needs more hitters like Turner. A guy with some power, but also the ability to get clutch hits off of tough pitchers.



I liked Manny as well -- he's better on both sides of the ball than Saeger (despite the $ difference). Perhaps package Seager in a trade ?
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