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JerryWest_44
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 Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | What exactly is the expectation, that he's going to gain another 5 miles on his fastball with a slight adjustment from Honeycutt? He's done. |
A closer needs a go to pitch ... Kenley lost his velocity for a couple of years now... same with a kershaw but at least kershaw is evolving into more of a finesse pitcher...a closer can’t finesse |
Actually, I think they can. Huston Street did it for a few years and was highly effective, until injury issues dropped his fastball to about 88 and cost him the bite on his slider, and then he had nothing even just trying to throw junk up there. Doug Jones used to get guys out with a lot of changeups and his below-average fastball could work because of that. Obviously, you'd prefer to have a closer with filthy stuff, but if you can at least mess up the timing of the hitter, it can work. But if Kenley is going to mostly rely on one pitch that isn't that good anymore, yeah, he's just asking to get hit hard way too often now. Especially with how these baseballs are wound up now.
Look at Rich Hill. Dude throws 90-91 when healthy and his fastball looks about 100 to the hitter because of how good his curveball is, and because the hitter has no idea which pitch is coming in any given count. With Jansen, they pretty much know 80-90% of the time a low-90's cutter is coming, and a cutter that doesn't cut much. We're seeing the results of that this year. His only chance, at this point, would be if he were willing to throw either pitch in any count. He's reluctant to do that, so, yeah, he's going to be highly susceptible to getting hit hard. |
hmmm ... to be honest I’d rather have Hill close than Kenley |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | What exactly is the expectation, that he's going to gain another 5 miles on his fastball with a slight adjustment from Honeycutt? He's done. |
A closer needs a go to pitch ... Kenley lost his velocity for a couple of years now... same with a kershaw but at least kershaw is evolving into more of a finesse pitcher...a closer can’t finesse |
Actually, I think they can. Huston Street did it for a few years and was highly effective, until injury issues dropped his fastball to about 88 and cost him the bite on his slider, and then he had nothing even just trying to throw junk up there. Doug Jones used to get guys out with a lot of changeups and his below-average fastball could work because of that. Obviously, you'd prefer to have a closer with filthy stuff, but if you can at least mess up the timing of the hitter, it can work. But if Kenley is going to mostly rely on one pitch that isn't that good anymore, yeah, he's just asking to get hit hard way too often now. Especially with how these baseballs are wound up now.
Look at Rich Hill. Dude throws 90-91 when healthy and his fastball looks about 100 to the hitter because of how good his curveball is, and because the hitter has no idea which pitch is coming in any given count. With Jansen, they pretty much know 80-90% of the time a low-90's cutter is coming, and a cutter that doesn't cut much. We're seeing the results of that this year. His only chance, at this point, would be if he were willing to throw either pitch in any count. He's reluctant to do that, so, yeah, he's going to be highly susceptible to getting hit hard. |
hmmm ... to be honest I’d rather have Hill close than Kenley |
If healthy, easily.
Watching Baez right now, it's easy to see how much better Kelly's breaking ball is than than of Baez. That's really the key for Kelly. When he can command that breaking ball, as he has basically since June, he can dominate hitters. That pitch has so much snap to it. And then he can come at you with 98-99 MPH heat. |
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JerryWest_44
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| when do u pull Kenley as the closer? |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | | when do u pull Kenley as the closer? |
They already tried this "he'll pitch once a series so he can feel more comfortable with more usage" crap, as if the public was going to buy that. I don't know what the next move is. It's obvious he is no longer the Dodgers' best option out of the bullpen. Heck, he's not even their second-best option. |
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JerryWest_44
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Baez gets the win |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| My God, Muncy is boss. |
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ExPatLkrFan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | | when do u pull Kenley as the closer? |
They already tried this "he'll pitch once a series so he can feel more comfortable with more usage" crap, as if the public was going to buy that. I don't know what the next move is. It's obvious he is no longer the Dodgers' best option out of the bullpen. Heck, he's not even their second-best option. |
At this point you can't put him on the post season roster. You just can't. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | | when do u pull Kenley as the closer? |
They already tried this "he'll pitch once a series so he can feel more comfortable with more usage" crap, as if the public was going to buy that. I don't know what the next move is. It's obvious he is no longer the Dodgers' best option out of the bullpen. Heck, he's not even their second-best option. |
How many guys have gone directly from closer to mop-up guy? If this team didn't basically have the NL locked up I feel that would be his role right now. |
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JerryWest_44
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | | when do u pull Kenley as the closer? |
They already tried this "he'll pitch once a series so he can feel more comfortable with more usage" crap, as if the public was going to buy that. I don't know what the next move is. It's obvious he is no longer the Dodgers' best option out of the bullpen. Heck, he's not even their second-best option. |
How many guys have gone directly from closer to mop-up guy? If this team didn't basically have the NL locked up I feel that would be his role right now. |
Roberts and the Dodger brass need to sack up and make the call |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I know the players love Jansen. Roberts loves him. They don't have to do anything rash like cut him. They should just let him work in lower-leverage spots until he can "work out some things", and just announce it like that. Don't announce anything like "he is definitely the closer", or "he'll get his closer job back when he works things out", or anything like that. Just let him work in lower-leverage spots. If by some miracle everyone else falters and he pitches brilliantly for 3 weeks, you have given yourself the cover to then elevate him again. But that's highly unlikely to happen, and as long as Kelly continues to pitch well and if others also step up, the Dodgers can decide what to do when the postseason is about to start. I still doubt they would leave him off the postseason roster, but I guess you never know. |
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LonzoLegend2
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Too bad we don't have any closer types ready to jump in from the minors.....can't win a post season series without a competent pen. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Joe Kelly, since June 1:
24.1 IP, 15 hits allowed, 9 walks, 36 K's, 1 HBP, 1.03 WHIP
Since July 1:
15.1 IP, 8 hits, 4 walks, 22 K's, 1 HBP, .848 WHIP |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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How important is this upcoming Yankees series?
On the one hand, we want the HFA. On the other hand, we don't want to let them face our best pitchers.
That being said, the scheduled starters will be:
Ryu, Gonsolin, Kershaw.
Excited for the series. |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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^ We got them at home? I'm WAY too invested in Ryu's ERA for a grown ass man  .
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| Jensen should learn from Kershaw of this season. both of them are the main culprit of the WS loss two years ago. Kershaw has been keeping it low profile while consistently perform. he's willing to allow Rye and Buhler to take the headlines away from him the last two seasons without any issues. but Jensen on the other hand is playing with bad body language, his talking through the media reeks a selfish entitled has been. time to move on from Jensen, responsible for 1 WS loss is enough. |
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LonzoLegend2
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:10 am Post subject: |
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Eric Stephen
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@ericstephen
Dave Roberts In Kenley Jansen: “If there’s a save situation, he’ll be back out there.”
“It’s good to have options, but right now Kenley is our closer.” |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| The last time the Yankees visited we got to watch Broxton blow a save. Now Kenley gets a chance to go full Broxton on national television too. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| LonzoLegend2 wrote: | Eric Stephen
✔
@ericstephen
Dave Roberts In Kenley Jansen: “If there’s a save situation, he’ll be back out there.”
“It’s good to have options, but right now Kenley is our closer.” |
that's a bad look for this team's chemistry. everyone is carrying their weight the entire team, and yet we have Jensen who has not performed in high leverage situation but he's getting a pass. |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Right. It's hard to wrap your head around guys getting yanked out of the lineup when they're slumping or even not slumping but have others out-performing them. Then you have another guy that is the exception to the rules that apply to everyone else.
Cody plays RF, CF, and 1B. Muncy plays 1B, 2B, and 3B. Even Joc played 1B when he never has before. These guys are all doing what they need to do to play and help the team.
I think we're past the point of worrying about pissing Kenley off or him thinking the team isn't confident in him. It's not like we don't have other options in Kelly and Baez. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | “You’ve got to continue to play it out, learn from things,” Roberts said of Jansen, who has a 3.70 ERA (worst in his career) and six blown saves (second worst in his career) but will remain the team’s closer.
“I still think Kenley is tracking in a positive direction, regardless of outcome.” |
Tell me he's just gaslighting the media.
| Quote: | | Jansen did not make himself available to the media before reporters were asked to leave the clubhouse following the game. |
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Mark_in_Tulsa
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Look we're going to the playoffs with HF through the NL if not all of the league.
We have the luxury of letting KJ work through this. What do we have to lose?
If he fixes things then great, if not we didn't kill our other arms in the pen in the process before the playoffs.
Having KJ be just an above avg closer and cost us a few games during the reg. season isn't hurting anything. It's not like we're fighting for a spot.
When Kobe had a cold streak did we stop going through him? No we just worked through it.
KJ is still one of the best closers in the game. Yeah he's not as sharp as he was but it's not like we're losing more than winning when he's out there.
Now if he's still not the best option in the playoffs then yeah I wouldn't necessarily close with him. But right now we have the luxury of letting him work through it.
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:59 am Post subject: |
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We do have the luxury of these games being mostly "house money" but from what I've seen, Kenley has just gotten worse and worse since 2017. He wasn't great last year and hasn't been good this year.
At some point you have to accept that it's not working and try something else. Use him in low leverage situations to see if he can get some clean innings under his belt. Then work him back to closer when he's proven he's earned it.
I don't think we are dependent on him for playoff success so it's not like we need him to figure it out, it would just make us a whole lot better if he did. The downside of not changing anything is if he still sucks in October then either we risk him blowing more games or we have Baez/Kelly closing when they haven't had the chance to all year. Let them get some looks now, let him get some 7th/8th inning looks. See what happens.
Like you said, we can take chances with these regular season games so why not try some different scenarios and see what works? |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Kelly should be the closer at this time period. Kenley can work some other innings. Guy refuses to throw anything but cutters, seems like he is being difficult to coach.
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JerryWest_44
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | Kelly should be the closer at this time period. Kenley can work some other innings. Guy refuses to throw anything but cutters, seems like he is being difficult to coach. |
yup everyone is sitting on his 91 mph cutter |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | We do have the luxury of these games being mostly "house money" but from what I've seen, Kenley has just gotten worse and worse since 2017. He wasn't great last year and hasn't been good this year.
At some point you have to accept that it's not working and try something else. Use him in low leverage situations to see if he can get some clean innings under his belt. Then work him back to closer when he's proven he's earned it.
I don't think we are dependent on him for playoff success so it's not like we need him to figure it out, it would just make us a whole lot better if he did. The downside of not changing anything is if he still sucks in October then either we risk him blowing more games or we have Baez/Kelly closing when they haven't had the chance to all year. Let them get some looks now, let him get some 7th/8th inning looks. See what happens.
Like you said, we can take chances with these regular season games so why not try some different scenarios and see what works? |
I just have a hard time believing Roberts is going to turn on a dime once the postseason starts and stop using him in high leverage or closing situations at all.
They are battling with the Yankees for HF so these games do have some meaning now. It'll be interesting to see if he appears at all in that series. |
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