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ChickenStu
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Location: Anaheim, CA
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 Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Jansen is just not good anymore. We need an upgrade, especially if Urias is going to be a starter down the stretch. We will not win the World Series if he is the closer. |
I have said this for a year now.
Not sure what else they need to see. |
I really, really truly don't want to see anybody get injured. HOWEVER...if Jansen's ankle is hurt enough for him to miss time, it might be the best thing to happen to this team, because it might compel management to trade for a big-time reliever. Jansen's pitches have nothing on them. This is more than looking at his peripherals and seeing good stats. Sometimes, stats do not tell the story. I watch the games, and it feels like we're getting lucky whenever he gets through a scoreless appearance.
We are not going to win the World Series with Jansen as the closer. Good hitters have the advantage against him. |
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ExPatLkrFan
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Location: Mukdahan, Thailand
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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^^^ He rarely even gets a clean inning even if he gets a save. He's turning into Jesse Orozco before our very eyes.
Let Baez close he's earned it. I don't care how much Jansens making let him mop up until he proves different. Losing this game was a gut punch after the way the offense came back and Buehler and the rest of the relievers held them after a shaky start. Everyone else is on a meritocracy. He should be too. |
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JerryWest_44
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ExPatLkrFan wrote: | | ^^^ He rarely even gets a clean inning even if he gets a save. He's turning into Jesse Orozco before our very eyes. |
He's no longer a championship closer -- very spotty at best. |
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Cutheon
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Didn't watch. is it true that Jansen was limping? Should he even have been pitching? |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Cutheon wrote: | | Didn't watch. is it true that Jansen was limping? Should he even have been pitching? |
The first batter of the inning tattooed one right up the middle and it hit his ankle/foot area and caromed to Freese at first base for the out. His velocity to that hitter was only 89-90 though, and his velocity didn't go down after that. It might be fair to say he was in pain, but I'm out of excuses for him. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:37 am Post subject: |
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Jansen isn’t even a guy I’d want pitching the 8th with the lead, or even the 7th. I’m not surprised when he blows a save; I’m actually surprised he hasn’t blown more games because he makes it too much of an adventure. If he declines just a little bit more he will start blowing some of the games that he barely closes out and that’s even scarier.
| Quote: |
Jansen’s 0.24 pitching war is ranked No. 23 in the MLB,
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| Quote: | Of the 27 hits Jansen has allowed this year, nearly half are extra base hits, including six home runs, equating to a .433 slugging percentage. He is allowing 1.47 home runs per nine innings, which is nearly double his career HR/9 (0.83).
He is also projected to blow more saves this year than the previous two seasons combined, which accounts for the nerves that settle in your gut when he takes the mound. |
The article also shows that his velocity is down this year:
Kenley Jansen is no longer the answer |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Kenley can opt out after this year. Hopefully he opts out.
Kenley's still owed:
2020 - $18M
2021 - $20M |
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ExPatLkrFan
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Location: Mukdahan, Thailand
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | Kenley can opt out after this year. Hopefully he opts out.
Kenley's still owed:
2020 - $18M
2021 - $20M |
There's not enough alcohol in the world to make that happen. Lol |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Cutheon wrote: | | Didn't watch. is it true that Jansen was limping? Should he even have been pitching? |
I didn't notice the limping* but he just didn't seem right. He seemed more deliberate than usual, he was up (but then so was the target) and he just didn't appear comfortable. I don't recall a single slider as well.
I gotta admit that I am joining the bandwagon, but the defense and lady luck weren't exactly on his side either.
*though he said afterwards that he should have come out after being hit in the ankle by a comebacker.
https://www.mlb.com/dodgers/news/dodgers-hit-five-homers-lose-to-phillies
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| Why do so many closers have such a short shelf life? It seems after like 4 years they all seem to get worse. |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| ExPatLkrFan wrote: | | ^^^ He rarely even gets a clean inning even if he gets a save. |
This is my thing.
His stats are deceiving as it seems like he is walking the tightrope practically every appearance but squeeking out of some of the bad spots he has put himself in.
As ChickenStu said above, I think the good teams/hitters have his number now in clutch situations, we can't let this guy cost us another World Series.
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ExPatLkrFan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | ExPatLkrFan wrote: | | ^^^ He rarely even gets a clean inning even if he gets a save. |
This is my thing.
His stats are deceiving as it seems like he is walking the tightrope practically every appearance but squeeking out of some of the bad spots he has put himself in.
As ChickenStu said above, I think the good teams/hitters have his number now in clutch situations, we can't let this guy cost us another World Series. |
It's up to the FO to take care of the issue, because if he's on the team Roberts will close with him. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| opposing walkoffs and shaky closers suck...amirite? |
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nickuku
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Kenley Broxton
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srm90
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:26 am Post subject: |
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We need to get one of the actual closers on the market (hopefully someone like Shane Greene) and try them out at the closer spot, because there’s no way we can feel comfortable about Jansen at the closer spot going into the postseason. He’s hasn’t given us any reason to believe he won’t be smacked around in the postseason/World Series like he has the past two years.
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| srm90 wrote: | | We need to get one of the actual closers on the market (hopefully someone like Shane Greene) and try them out at the closer spot, because there’s no way we can feel comfortable about Jansen at the closer spot going into the postseason. He’s hasn’t given us any reason to believe he won’t be smacked around in the postseason/World Series like he has the past two years. |
I wouldn't even feel comfortable with Greene. We need to aim higher. Greene is closing in a low-pressure environment on a terrible team without expectations. And he was awful last season. Ask Scott Alexander what it's like to get guys out pitching without expectations for a post-World Series Royals team a couple of years ago, and then he comes to LA with expectations and turns back into a pumpkin. This isn't to say that you can't target guys on bad teams, but they better have the raw stuff and talent.
Will Smith might not even be an option for us anymore, if the Giants keep this hot streak up. They are only 3 games out of a wild card spot, so it will be interesting to see if Zaidi feels pressure to not trade away Smith and MadBum in an effort to try to make the postseason one last time under Bochy. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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I caught a bit of Mlb network last night in between clicks and caught a discussion on who should be favorites to win the WS. Greg Amsinger said, unequivocally, the Yankees, to the unimpressed other hosts.
He simply said, what matters down the stretch and into the playoffs is the bullpen. He added, look at the Yankees' bullpen, and went on about them, and though I only remember the mention of Chapman, there is Ottavino, Briton, and Kahnle as well.
That is a scary thought but then so are their starters and middle relief.
Still who would you want at the back of your bullpen, Ottavion and Chapman or Baez and Jansen? Since the Dodgers of recent past have shown that a two or three run lead is not automatic, and the Dodgers, much to my satisfaction, have given Kenley plenty of rope, it is time for plan B or C, which now could/should include two additions to the bully.
While having Urias pitch the eighth was my original hope, now there really appears to be a greater need for the ninth, a role with which using Urias could be pushing it. So, they could try him to see how it goes, or bend over and pay up the wazoo, which really does appear to be the only realistic solution.
There also should be an effort to have Kenley pitch in some low pressure situations to work on his mechanics (or maybe his head), that looked all screwed up last night.
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | I caught a bit of Mlb network last night in between clicks and caught a discussion on who should be favorites to win the WS. Greg Amsinger said, unequivocally, the Yankees, to the unimpressed other hosts.
He simply said, what matters down the stretch and into the playoffs is the bullpen. He added, look at the Yankees' bullpen, and went on about them, and though I only remember the mention of Chapman, there is Ottavino, Briton, and Kahnle as well.
That is a scary thought but then so are their starters and middle relief.
Still who would you want at the back of your bullpen, Ottavion and Chapman or Baez and Jansen? Since the Dodgers of recent past have shown that a two or three run lead is not automatic, and the Dodgers, much to my satisfaction, have given Kenley plenty of rope, it is time for plan B or C, which now could/should include two additions to the bully.
While having Urias pitch the eighth was my original hope, now there really appears to be a greater need for the ninth, a role with which using Urias could be pushing it. So, they could try him to see how it goes, or bend over and pay up the wazoo, which really does appear to be the only realistic solution.
There also should be an effort to have Kenley pitch in some low pressure situations to work on his mechanics (or maybe his head), that looked all screwed up last night. |
I dunno, rib, but dude is throwing 90 MPH cutters that aren't cutting much. Velocity was never overly important for Kenley, but he used to have wicked movement. It's obvious to me that he no longer has such movement on his ball. I remember when Frankie Rodriguez started to lose velocity. He was still able to remain an effective closer for a long time due to being willing to feature his offspeed stuff way more. In other words, he had guile. Does Kenley have that? He teases every once in a while in outings where he's willing to throw his slider, but more often than not, it's just all fastballs/cutters. Throwing one pitch the same speed over and over when it's not moving much, and it's not a high-velocity pitch? It's just saying "hit me." |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | ExPatLkrFan wrote: | | ^^^ He rarely even gets a clean inning even if he gets a save. |
This is my thing.
His stats are deceiving as it seems like he is walking the tightrope practically every appearance but squeeking out of some of the bad spots he has put himself in.
As ChickenStu said above, I think the good teams/hitters have his number now in clutch situations, we can't let this guy cost us another World Series. |
Agreed, the idea of using him in critical moments when the level of competition is higher is really scary. In the regular season pitchers can improve their stats just by facing some of the weaker to average teams. But you don’t get to play those teams in the playoffs. On average the lineups will tend to be significantly tougher. |
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srm90
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | srm90 wrote: | | We need to get one of the actual closers on the market (hopefully someone like Shane Greene) and try them out at the closer spot, because there’s no way we can feel comfortable about Jansen at the closer spot going into the postseason. He’s hasn’t given us any reason to believe he won’t be smacked around in the postseason/World Series like he has the past two years. |
I wouldn't even feel comfortable with Greene. We need to aim higher. Greene is closing in a low-pressure environment on a terrible team without expectations. And he was awful last season. Ask Scott Alexander what it's like to get guys out pitching without expectations for a post-World Series Royals team a couple of years ago, and then he comes to LA with expectations and turns back into a pumpkin. This isn't to say that you can't target guys on bad teams, but they better have the raw stuff and talent.
Will Smith might not even be an option for us anymore, if the Giants keep this hot streak up. They are only 3 games out of a wild card spot, so it will be interesting to see if Zaidi feels pressure to not trade away Smith and MadBum in an effort to try to make the postseason one last time under Bochy. |
Well, if we want someone that for sure could slide into that closer role and we could feel highly confident about, that would mean getting either Vasquez, Hand, or Yates (if available). All would cost a boatload, which I don’t think Friedman is going to be willing to pay those prices unless the Pirates lower the asking price on Vasquez, which there is no real reason for them to do that IMO.
We might have to settle for the closers that are performing on bad teams currently like Greene or Colome on the White Sox. Maybe we grab a couple of them and try them out in high leverage save situations down the stretch and see who comes out looking the best.
If we can somehow convince Pittsburgh to give us Vasquez for one top level prospect instead of two, that would be awesome and I think Friedman would pull the trigger on that since he has a multi-year team friendly contract. But demand is probably going to be sky-high during this deadline with just about every NL team seemingly in wild card contention.
I’m worried we’re gonna play it safe and the Braves/Brewers/Cubs go for it and scoop up all the top quality relievers available.
Obviously they shouldn’t trade Lux, but we need to be aggressive. Urias looks like he could be a weapon in the bullpen and Kelly is looking better, but I don’t know if we can rely on just what we have now. And I don’t think Maeda is the answer either after his performance in last year’s postseason.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| srm90 wrote: |
Obviously they shouldn’t trade Lux, but we need to be aggressive. |
Yeah. No way Jose. Check out his slash numbers in AAA.
| Code: | NAME POS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG OPS
Gavin Lux SS 13 54 20 27 7 2 4 14 50 6 10 0 0 .550 .926 .500 1.476 |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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How about Keibert Ruiz, the number 2 catching prospect in MLB according to MLB.com, for Kirby Yates. I don't know what SD has in their farm but they need a catcher since theirs actually hit as bad as do the Dodgers', and they don't have a top 10 catcher. Yates is 32 and a free agent in 2021, so is not likely a long term plan.
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | How about Keibert Ruiz, the number 2 catching prospect in MLB according to MLB.com, for Kirby Yates. I don't know what SD has in their farm but they need a catcher since theirs actually hit as bad as do the Dodgers', and they don't have a top 10 catcher. Yates is 32 and a free agent in 2021, so is not likely a long term plan. |
Isn't Francisco Mejia a top catching prospect? |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | How about Keibert Ruiz, the number 2 catching prospect in MLB according to MLB.com, for Kirby Yates. I don't know what SD has in their farm but they need a catcher since theirs actually hit as bad as do the Dodgers', and they don't have a top 10 catcher. Yates is 32 and a free agent in 2021, so is not likely a long term plan. |
Isn't Francisco Mejia a top catching prospect? |
I don't follow the Pads that closely but he is up with the big club and slashing .200/.258/.336/.595.
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leor_77
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Game delayed...Weird ass East Coast weather. I wish it would rain here during the summer. |
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