| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
lar9149
Star Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 2413
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | StoicChalice392 wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | Quote: | Defensive Rating leaders via BBall Ref
Jimmy Butler - 88.1
Dwight Howard - 88.4
Nerlens Noel - 91.6
Anthony Davis - 91.6
Matisse Thybulle - 91.7
Rudy Gobert - 92.6
Jonathan Isaac - 94.2
Dejounte Murray - 94.9
LeBron James - 95.2
Giannis Antetokounmpo - 95.2
Bam Adebayo - 95.5
|
https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1191836835678498817?s=21 |
I thought Lebron didn’t play defense anymore… |
but the KLAW! Where is the Klaw?! |
LeBron’s been great but are we really gonna pretend he’s a better defender than Leonard?? |
I don't know...but I wouldn't be hesitate to argue that Lebron might be better than Kawhi or at least close to his level when engaged. Each his their own strengths here, but Lebron maybe better at running down a player in transition and block their shot at the rim. Kawhi maybe better at steals. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
LaLaLakeShow
Star Player
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 2989
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| lar9149 wrote: | | LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | StoicChalice392 wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | Quote: | Defensive Rating leaders via BBall Ref
Jimmy Butler - 88.1
Dwight Howard - 88.4
Nerlens Noel - 91.6
Anthony Davis - 91.6
Matisse Thybulle - 91.7
Rudy Gobert - 92.6
Jonathan Isaac - 94.2
Dejounte Murray - 94.9
LeBron James - 95.2
Giannis Antetokounmpo - 95.2
Bam Adebayo - 95.5
|
https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1191836835678498817?s=21 |
I thought Lebron didn’t play defense anymore… |
but the KLAW! Where is the Klaw?! |
LeBron’s been great but are we really gonna pretend he’s a better defender than Leonard?? |
I don't know...but I wouldn't be hesitate to argue that Lebron might be better than Kawhi or at least close to his level when engaged. Each his their own strengths here, but Lebron maybe better at running down a player in transition and block their shot at the rim. Kawhi maybe better at steals. |
Kawhi sticks to his man way better, imo. LeBron is more effective when roaming |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JPaulK0n
Star Player
Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Posts: 2478
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lakers stats to improve upon:
15th in ppg at 111
19th in pace at at 102.12
13th in rpg at 45.7
23rd in offensive rpg at 9.3
17th in apg at 23.6
22nd in in FTA at 23.1
26th in 3PM at 65
26th in 3P% at 31.7
13th in FT% at 76.5%
Lakers strengths so far:
1st in defensive rating at 97.9
2nd in +/- at 9.9 in the league
2nd in defensive rating at 8.8
1st in bpg at 8.4
5th in spg at 9.0
9th in turnover per game at 15.1
8th in personal fouls per game at 21
6th in FG% at 47%
Team is elite on defense, offense still needs lot to figure out and improve early in the season. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
durden-tyler
Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 1266
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ziggy
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12736
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JPaulK0n wrote: | Lakers stats to improve upon:
15th in ppg at 111
19th in pace at at 102.12
13th in rpg at 45.7
23rd in offensive rpg at 9.3
17th in apg at 23.6
22nd in in FTA at 23.1
26th in 3PM at 65
26th in 3P% at 31.7
13th in FT% at 76.5%
Lakers strengths so far:
1st in defensive rating at 97.9
2nd in +/- at 9.9 in the league
2nd in defensive rating at 8.8
1st in bpg at 8.4
5th in spg at 9.0
9th in turnover per game at 15.1
8th in personal fouls per game at 21
6th in FG% at 47%
Team is elite on defense, offense still needs lot to figure out and improve early in the season. |
The Laker shooting curse continues! Weird because it feels like we've been better this year.
I'm actually fine with our pace being around 20th for the season. We have a 35 year old PG running the offense.
Definitely need to increase our FTA.
Love the defense and block party 
Thanks for the update. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23804
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Maybe sometime in the next 20 years the Lakers will finally be the best shooting team in the league. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23804
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LaLaLakeShow
Star Player
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 2989
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerSD wrote: | https://twitter.com/garykester/status/1192665863381340160?s=21
Lineup of AB/Green/LBJ/AD/Dwight is destroying opponents.
Small sample size but crazy net rating. |
It’s a well balanced lineup |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | https://twitter.com/garykester/status/1192665863381340160?s=21
Lineup of AB/Green/LBJ/AD/Dwight is destroying opponents.
Small sample size but crazy net rating. |
It’s a well balanced lineup |
Beautiful! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54693
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Big success in Lakers' frontcourt
| Quote: | The Lakers have been better with Davis at the four (combining his minutes with McGee or Howard) than they've been with Davis at the five (with both McGee and Howard resting).
Lakers with Anthony Davis on the floor
On floor MIN OffRtg DefRtg NetRtg +/-
Davis + McGee 99 97.7 101.4 -3.7 -11
Davis + Howard 72 120.8 85.3 +35.4 +58
Davis at 4 total 171 107.3 94.8 +12.5 +47
Davis at 5 72 96.4 96.4 0 0
OffRtg = Points scored per 100 possessions
DefRtg = Points allowed per 100 possessions
NetRtg = Point differential per 100 possessions
Davis himself has been more efficient at the five (effective field goal of 55%, true shooting percentage of 63%) than he's been at the four (46%, 55%). One issue with the Lakers' struggles in the minutes in which Davis has played center? James hasn't been at the four for all of them.
In breaking up the time between minutes that James has been on the floor vs. minutes that he's been off the floor, there's a huge difference in how well the Lakers have played with Davis at center. In 49 minutes with Davis at the five and James on the floor, the Lakers have outscored their opponents by 24 points. In 23 minutes with Davis at the five with James on the bench, the Lakers have been outscored by 24 points.
Lakers with Anthony Davis at the 5
James on/off MIN OffRtg DefRtg NetRtg +/-
James on the floor 49 110.6 87.8 +22.8 +24
James off the floor 23 66.0 115.7 -49.6 -24
Davis at 5 total 72 96.4 96.4 0 0
OffRtg = Points scored per 100 possessions
DefRtg = Points allowed per 100 possessions
NetRtg = Point differential per 100 possessions
|
https://www.nba.com/article/2019/11/08/friday-notebook |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 7-1 is such a beautiful stat |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheBlackMamba
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9057
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Crazy how offseason narratives get destroyed once the actual games begin. Having said that, I don't even think the most optimistic Laker fans could have predicted our defense would be this good, and this soon. But the knock on this roster was that there was no way we could stop anybody, and it was going to be the Lebron/AD combo on offense plus our shooters that and it would be our scoring that gets us wins. And it's been quite the opposite...
Just imagine what we're gonna be like when we get out (bleep) together on offense. The amazing thing is that we've been fairly piss poor on that end, with our shooters still cold (a couple of net negatives in KCP and Kuz) and it's mostly been Lebron and to a lesser extent AD carrying us based on their individual scoring talent alone. The chemistry between them is still a work in progress. Can't wait to see what the finished product is gonna look like... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | Mike Trudell
@LakersReporter 1m
After another impressive defensive effort, @KingJames deserved to sit for the @SpectrumSN walkoff 📺. He helped limit Miami to 80 points (14 in 4th Q). Frank Vogel said LAL’s analytics team shared that they contested 88% of MIA’s shots, which he called unheard of. LAL are 7-1. |
88% contests? OMG.
That's gotta be off. But if not, and they're playing defense like that, I won't mind them being pathetic from 3 point land. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LaLaLakeShow
Star Player
Joined: 04 Aug 2019
Posts: 2989
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| epak wrote: | | Quote: | Mike Trudell
@LakersReporter 1m
After another impressive defensive effort, @KingJames deserved to sit for the @SpectrumSN walkoff 📺. He helped limit Miami to 80 points (14 in 4th Q). Frank Vogel said LAL’s analytics team shared that they contested 88% of MIA’s shots, which he called unheard of. LAL are 7-1. |
88% contests? OMG.
That's gotta be off. But if not, and they're playing defense like that, I won't mind them being pathetic from 3 point land. |
Are there hidden Magnets at work here or something?? Lol
88%??? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerDynasty6.0
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 4660
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
define "contest"
_________________
Starting Lakers Dynasty6.0! NOW!!
------
....." each year in Lakerland is marked by four seasons: Kobe’s Mad at His Teammates; Kobe’s Shooting Too Much; Kobe Leads the Victory Parade; Kobe Receives His Championship Ring." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hype
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 4389
Location: Lake Nacimiento
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| epak wrote: | | Quote: | Mike Trudell
@LakersReporter 1m
After another impressive defensive effort, @KingJames deserved to sit for the @SpectrumSN walkoff 📺. He helped limit Miami to 80 points (14 in 4th Q). Frank Vogel said LAL’s analytics team shared that they contested 88% of MIA’s shots, which he called unheard of. LAL are 7-1. |
88% contests? OMG.
That's gotta be off. But if not, and they're playing defense like that, I won't mind them being pathetic from 3 point land. |
Yeah, 88% sounds insane but I will say at some point in the 3rd quarter I even noticed that it seemed like they were not allowing any free shots and even when a good distance away they were throwing there hands up and doing whatever they could to help disrupt it on the closeouts. Vogel has this team locked tf in on the defensive end and im still saying Lebron is having the clear better defensive season then Kawhi ( I know its still extremely early but extremely impressive nonetheless).
Any games where they are hitting 3's will be over real quick playing like this. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Judah
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Said all along that they would be good defensively. I never understood (and still don't) why it was assumed that they would be bad on defense considering the roster and the fact that Vogel is a defensive mastermind. Always seemed rather obvious to me *shrug*
_________________
“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheBlackMamba
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9057
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Judah wrote: | | Said all along that they would be good defensively. I never understood (and still don't) why it was assumed that they would be bad on defense considering the roster and the fact that Vogel is a defensive mastermind. Always seemed rather obvious to me *shrug* |
I could see a case made for them being good with Vogel, but c'mon - no one expected all three of Lebron, Dwight, and Bradley to turn back the clock the way they have, especially to the extent Lebron and Dwight did. The only things we had going for us were AD (who played on some terrible defense Pels' teams) and a 34-year old Danny Green (who's also been as great as advertised on defense, not as surprising, but still no guarantee coming in at that age). We also figured Rondo to be a starter and a negative on that end, but he hasn't even played yet. Then you go on down the line and we've just gotten contributions from everybody, with Caruso standing out among the bench guards.
Being the #1 defense has been a VERY pleasant surprise, but definitely a surprise. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LAII
Star Player
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 1934
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| durden-tyler wrote: | http://bkref.com/tiny/2seZV
 |
The Laker's perimeter defenders are trying to funnel players into the paint. They are going to run three point shooters off the line and dare them to go inside, where the Lakers seemingly always have one or more shot blockers waiting.
Even when they get the switch then what? Try to shoot over AD or Lebron or let them try to chase you down for the block while you are charging towards a waiting Dwight Howard or McGee? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Judah
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | Said all along that they would be good defensively. I never understood (and still don't) why it was assumed that they would be bad on defense considering the roster and the fact that Vogel is a defensive mastermind. Always seemed rather obvious to me *shrug* |
I could see a case made for them being good with Vogel, but c'mon - no one expected all three of Lebron, Dwight, and Bradley to turn back the clock the way they have, especially to the extent Lebron and Dwight did. The only things we had going for us were AD (who played on some terrible defense Pels' teams) and a 34-year old Danny Green (who's also been as great as advertised on defense, not as surprising, but still no guarantee coming in at that age). We also figured Rondo to be a starter and a negative on that end, but he hasn't even played yet. Then you go on down the line and we've just gotten contributions from everybody, with Caruso standing out among the bench guards.
Being the #1 defense has been a VERY pleasant surprise, but definitely a surprise. |
- Bradley isn't old, he just hasn't been healthy the last few years. So I wouldn't put him in the category of "turning back the clock." We've seen what he can do when he's healthy.
- AD has always been one of the best two-way players in the game, so no surprises here.
-Green is older but has always been an elite 3 and D guy (though his value is more so as a team defender than a guy who locks dudes up, as GT has shown).
- Dwight just needed to get healthy. Older or not, he didn't win DPOY three times in a row simply because of his athleticism. It takes more than that to win the award, especially multiple times.
- We already knew JaVale could protect the rim.
- And Caruso and KCP are competitors. KCP may be a little overrated defensively, but he's very good at particular things. Caruso is just super intelligent and hard nosed.
- LeBron is the one surprise to me because of his age. You can only expect so much from a guy his age, but he's giving it everything he's got.
Vogel is the key. You take this combination of guys and let a defensive-minded coach design a system of defense that maximizes them and BOOM. I wasn't overly concerned about where they would rank, but I always believed they had more than enough to at least be in the top 10. Expecting them to just be plain awful never made much sense.
_________________
“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hype
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 4389
Location: Lake Nacimiento
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Judah wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | Said all along that they would be good defensively. I never understood (and still don't) why it was assumed that they would be bad on defense considering the roster and the fact that Vogel is a defensive mastermind. Always seemed rather obvious to me *shrug* |
I could see a case made for them being good with Vogel, but c'mon - no one expected all three of Lebron, Dwight, and Bradley to turn back the clock the way they have, especially to the extent Lebron and Dwight did. The only things we had going for us were AD (who played on some terrible defense Pels' teams) and a 34-year old Danny Green (who's also been as great as advertised on defense, not as surprising, but still no guarantee coming in at that age). We also figured Rondo to be a starter and a negative on that end, but he hasn't even played yet. Then you go on down the line and we've just gotten contributions from everybody, with Caruso standing out among the bench guards.
Being the #1 defense has been a VERY pleasant surprise, but definitely a surprise. |
- Bradley isn't old, he just hasn't been healthy the last few years. So I wouldn't put him in the category of "turning back the clock." We've seen what he can do when he's healthy.
- AD has always been one of the best two-way players in the game, so no surprises here.
-Green is older but has always been an elite 3 and D guy (though his value is more so as a team defender than a guy who locks dudes up, as GT has shown).
- Dwight just needed to get healthy. Older or not, he didn't win DPOY three times in a row simply because of his athleticism. It takes more than that to win the award, especially multiple times.
- We already knew JaVale could protect the rim.
- And Caruso and KCP are competitors. KCP may be a little overrated defensively, but he's very good at particular things. Caruso is just super intelligent and hard nosed.
- LeBron is the one surprise to me because of his age. You can only expect so much from a guy his age, but he's giving it everything he's got.
Vogel is the key. You take this combination of guys and let a defensive-minded coach design a system of defense that maximizes them and BOOM. I wasn't overly concerned about where they would rank, but I always believed they had more than enough to at least be in the top 10. Expecting them to just be plain awful never made much sense. |
Yeah, I honestly expected Bradley to play at his level but I dont think anyone expected Dwight to play like he has, not even his biggest supporters. Nobody doubted his talent, it's always obviously been there even at his current age. What surprised people or at least me is his complete turnaround mentally where he is actually genuinely excited to do all the dirty work and not worried about getting the ball or scoring really at all. I was all for the signing considering the contract he got but he has greatly passed any of my expectations.
Lebron is also clearly outplaying Kawhi on the defensive end so far which i'm pretty sure nobody expected and still doesnt even feel right typing it out tbh.
The rest of what you said I agree with as well but even with Vogel I didn't expect a historically great defensive start to the season. I did expect a very possible top 10-15 level defense with a potent offense.
I agree completely though that anyone that said we would be awful defensively probably didn't know much about Vogel and many of the top guys we brought in. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
durden-tyler
Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 1266
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
8 games
OFFRTG : 106.0 (17) ↓
DEFRTG : 96.5 (1) ↑
NETRTG : +9.5 (1) ↑ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
durden-tyler
Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 1266
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
10 games
OFFRTG : 107.2 (16) ↑
DEFRTG : 99.8 (2) ↓
NETRTG : +7.4 (3) ↓ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
durden-tyler
Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 1266
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
GOOD (between 1 and 10)
AVERAGE (between 11 and 20)
BAD (between 21 and 30)
SCORING
#3 (↑) in Points in Paint per Game
#14 (↓) in Fastbreak Points per Game
#17 (↓) in Fastbreak Efficiency
#2 (↑) in Percent of Points from 2 Pointers
#28 (↓) in Percent of Points from 3 Pointers
#27 (↓) in Percent of Points from Free Throws
SHOOTING
#17 (↓) in True Shooting %
#11 (↑) in Effective Field Goal %
#22 (↓) in Free Throw %
REBOUNDING
#21 (↓) in Offensive Rebounding %
#8 (↑) in Defensive Rebounding %
#10 (↑) in Total Rebounding % (Rebound Rate)
BLOCKS & STEALS
#1 (=) in Block %
#10 (=) in Steals per Defensive Play
ASSISTS & TO
#10 (↑) in Turnovers per Possession
#4 (↑) in Assist / Turnover Ratio
#8 (↑) in Assists per FGM
#10 (↑) in Turnovers per Offensive Play |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
Durden-tyler, appreciate those stats man.
I will say though, not sure if I agree with the color bands.
I should it be more like 1-7 is good, 8-16 is average and 17+ is bad? Totally arbitrary I know. Just wondering what your thoughts are on that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
