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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
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 Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | I'd be pretty satisfied with Koufus. |
1 thing that SAC has a history of doing is collecting bigs who either don’t pan out or are in a bad situation..
I don’t even need to list the long list of solid bigs the Kings have had in recent years only to still be bad as a team because of there incompetent franchise... |
Vlade still has PTSD from being assaulted by Shaq so many times. He needs as many Scot Pollard's as he can get. |
Lol 
Scott Pollard is actually the only big that was apart of a relevant Sacramento Kings team, just imagine that for a second, they have been horrible for years.. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: |
It is what it is. I'll take being in salary cap hell if it means we have a dynasty like the Warriors. If the goal is to win multiple rings with this core then that comes with the territory. |
So the dynasty would start with WCS and not someone like KD, Kawhi, Middleton, etc? |
My point went over your head. Getting a quality backup C this yr is necessary for us to make a deep playoff run. Trading for WCS this year would not preclude us from signing Kawhi or KD next summer. That 2nd round pick you covet so much is not doing anything for us at all. |
So, throwing a pick. You're paying a 2nd round pick for WCS (assuming that would go through), then just letting him go again for the cap space the Lakers already have?
I don't understand the point of making a "late playoff run" when championship is the goal. So, basically, lose a 2nd rounder for a late playoff run?
Nah. That's an awful trade.
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: |
It is what it is. I'll take being in salary cap hell if it means we have a dynasty like the Warriors. If the goal is to win multiple rings with this core then that comes with the territory. |
So the dynasty would start with WCS and not someone like KD, Kawhi, Middleton, etc? |
My point went over your head. Getting a quality backup C this yr is necessary for us to make a deep playoff run. Trading for WCS this year would not preclude us from signing Kawhi or KD next summer. That 2nd round pick you covet so much is not doing anything for us at all. |
So, throwing a pick. You're paying a 2nd round pick for WCS (assuming that would go through), then just letting him go again for the cap space the Lakers already have?
I don't understand the point of making a "late playoff run" when championship is the goal. So, basically, lose a 2nd rounder for a late playoff run?
Nah. That's an awful trade. |
The point is to gain valuable experience for the young guys and maybe we get lucky and get a ring that nobody expects. With a respectable backup center we can beat anybody in the NBA besides GSW if LeBron has another historical playoff run. Curry rolls an ankle in the playoffs and they are beatable too. You’re drastically overvaluing a second rounder. We’ve made some great 2nd round picks and still none of them have been very valuable yet. |
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The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: |
It is what it is. I'll take being in salary cap hell if it means we have a dynasty like the Warriors. If the goal is to win multiple rings with this core then that comes with the territory. |
So the dynasty would start with WCS and not someone like KD, Kawhi, Middleton, etc? |
My point went over your head. Getting a quality backup C this yr is necessary for us to make a deep playoff run. Trading for WCS this year would not preclude us from signing Kawhi or KD next summer. That 2nd round pick you covet so much is not doing anything for us at all. |
So, throwing a pick. You're paying a 2nd round pick for WCS (assuming that would go through), then just letting him go again for the cap space the Lakers already have?
I don't understand the point of making a "late playoff run" when championship is the goal. So, basically, lose a 2nd rounder for a late playoff run?
Nah. That's an awful trade. |
The point is to gain valuable experience for the young guys and maybe we get lucky and get a ring that nobody expects. With a respectable backup center we can beat anybody in the NBA besides GSW if LeBron has another historical playoff run. Curry rolls an ankle in the playoffs and they are beatable too. You’re drastically overvaluing a second rounder. We’ve made some great 2nd round picks and still none of them have been very valuable yet. |
Exactly! How can you value a late 2nd round pick over making the WCF? |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: |
It is what it is. I'll take being in salary cap hell if it means we have a dynasty like the Warriors. If the goal is to win multiple rings with this core then that comes with the territory. |
So the dynasty would start with WCS and not someone like KD, Kawhi, Middleton, etc? |
My point went over your head. Getting a quality backup C this yr is necessary for us to make a deep playoff run. Trading for WCS this year would not preclude us from signing Kawhi or KD next summer. That 2nd round pick you covet so much is not doing anything for us at all. |
So, throwing a pick. You're paying a 2nd round pick for WCS (assuming that would go through), then just letting him go again for the cap space the Lakers already have?
I don't understand the point of making a "late playoff run" when championship is the goal. So, basically, lose a 2nd rounder for a late playoff run?
Nah. That's an awful trade. |
The point is to gain valuable experience for the young guys and maybe we get lucky and get a ring that nobody expects. With a respectable backup center we can beat anybody in the NBA besides GSW if LeBron has another historical playoff run. Curry rolls an ankle in the playoffs and they are beatable too. You’re drastically overvaluing a second rounder. We’ve made some great 2nd round picks and still none of them have been very valuable yet. |
So, throwing a pick for *maybe* a round of playoff experience?
I'm not drastically overvaluing a 2nd rounder. Draft picks in itself have inherently high intrinsic value. It's what the team decides and how they foster talent development that determines the true value of the pick.
Sure, lets sell a 2nd rounder.
Pick becomes Jordan Bell.
Was that playoff experience worth it?
Or, maybe we'd be better off without Mykhailiuk or Bonga right now?
I already expect the Lakers to make the 2nd round, so tbh, I don't see what the fuss is all about. Who is going to beat the Lakers in 4 games in round 1 outside of GSW?
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The Juggernaut
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes the playoff experience is worth more than a Jordan Bell or Anthony Brown or Ryan Kelly |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | Yes the playoff experience is worth more than a Jordan Bell or Anthony Brown or Ryan Kelly |
I vehemently disagree with that, especially when I see the Lakers making it to the 2nd round anyway.
Trading picks shortened the Lakers' window in the 2000's, and made the 80's window a decade long. Lottery picks, late 1sts, and 2nd rounders alike.
I just find it insane when to me, the real argument is maybe 2-3 games in the playoffs (I'm guessing) for a 2nd rounder really, and yet, that draft pick could be the 5 you wanted in the first place, plus the FA pick up, without having to worry about capspace or trades or anything else.
It has to be a really pessimistic view of the team to not see the Lakers get past the 1st round, and then get swept in the 2nd, and WCS is going to make that a 5 or 6 game 2nd round series.
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: |
It is what it is. I'll take being in salary cap hell if it means we have a dynasty like the Warriors. If the goal is to win multiple rings with this core then that comes with the territory. |
So the dynasty would start with WCS and not someone like KD, Kawhi, Middleton, etc? |
My point went over your head. Getting a quality backup C this yr is necessary for us to make a deep playoff run. Trading for WCS this year would not preclude us from signing Kawhi or KD next summer. That 2nd round pick you covet so much is not doing anything for us at all. |
So, throwing a pick. You're paying a 2nd round pick for WCS (assuming that would go through), then just letting him go again for the cap space the Lakers already have?
I don't understand the point of making a "late playoff run" when championship is the goal. So, basically, lose a 2nd rounder for a late playoff run?
Nah. That's an awful trade. |
The point is to gain valuable experience for the young guys and maybe we get lucky and get a ring that nobody expects. With a respectable backup center we can beat anybody in the NBA besides GSW if LeBron has another historical playoff run. Curry rolls an ankle in the playoffs and they are beatable too. You’re drastically overvaluing a second rounder. We’ve made some great 2nd round picks and still none of them have been very valuable yet. |
So, throwing a pick for *maybe* a round of playoff experience?
I'm not drastically overvaluing a 2nd rounder. Draft picks in itself have inherently high intrinsic value. It's what the team decides and how they foster talent development that determines the true value of the pick.
Sure, lets sell a 2nd rounder.
Pick becomes Jordan Bell.
Was that playoff experience worth it?
Or, maybe we'd be better off without Mykhailiuk or Bonga right now?
I already expect the Lakers to make the 2nd round, so tbh, I don't see what the fuss is all about. Who is going to beat the Lakers in 4 games in round 1 outside of GSW? |
Yea drastically overvaluing those picks. You’re assuming best case scenario with this picks. Even average second round picks don’t contribute let alone bad ones. If trade Bonga for an extra round in the playoffs without a second thought. Svi is a great outlier second round pick and hasn’t proven to be a contributor at all. I expect them to make the second round too but if they do and Gobert destroys them and gets Utah into the finals while Curry sprains his ankle against Houston and becomes a very beatable team, we will look like absolute morons for coveting that second round pick which turned into a prospect who needs time in the gleague(which is most 2nd rounders) instead of getting a meeting with Boston in the finals.
Your line of thinking makes sense for a tanking rebuilding team, not a contender with the best player in the world. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Yes the playoff experience is worth more than a Jordan Bell or Anthony Brown or Ryan Kelly |
I vehemently disagree with that, especially when I see the Lakers making it to the 2nd round anyway.
Trading picks shortened the Lakers' window in the 2000's, and made the 80's window a decade long. Lottery picks, late 1sts, and 2nd rounders alike.
I just find it insane when to me, the real argument is maybe 2-3 games in the playoffs (I'm guessing) for a 2nd rounder really, and yet, that draft pick could be the 5 you wanted in the first place, plus the FA pick up, without having to worry about capspace or trades or anything else.
It has to be a really pessimistic view of the team to not see the Lakers get past the 1st round, and then get swept in the 2nd, and WCS is going to make that a 5 or 6 game 2nd round series. |
You’re looking at the most optimistic outcome of your view and the most pessimistic one of ours. Maybe WCS turns a 6 game loss to Utah into a 7 game win. Leading to an upset of GSW(which almost happened last year with an injury to their 5th best guy not even a top guy) and meeting with Boston in the finals. You’re arguing the window is shortened, we’re arguing the move opens that window in the first place. Imagine x player could be our Horry for the price of a second rounder. We lose to Utah(the Kings) instead of winning a title cause we wanted more camp fodder and a competitive summer league team from that second rounder. Na we moved past that stuff when we signed LeBron. You don’t make moves to extend a championship window when you aren’t even sure were good enough to open it yet. You open that thing and figure it out from there. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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^As far as I'm concerned, every team is technically rebuilding until they make the Finals. And drastically overvaluing the picks? I think you're drastically underrating the FOs decision-making in regards to the draft, who at least until recently, has been pretty much hitting on every single pick since what, 2013? There's no other team that comes close.
The Lakers have been getting outlier draft picks for years. Why is it suddenly they're just going to miss? What on earth is WCS going to do against Gobert? Not much.
My line of thinking actually ties in with how championship teams were built.
I mean, what picks were Draymond Green and Clint Capela? How valuable has Kyle Korver been?
They're certainly worth more than a series of playoff games or 2-3 games within a round.
Nevermind the fact that it fits SO WELL given the Lakers' current cap situation in regards to acquiring NBA level talent, regardless of draft position.
You use picks to acquire talent for the playoffs, when you're already in the WCF or Finals. At least the team is already built up, and just need an extra edge to get over the hump.
I especially don't understand the argument with depth of the talent pool in the draft has practically doubled within a 7-10 year span. Back then we actually had time for project players. We don't anymore because too many rookies produce early/quickly and still have upside.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Yes the playoff experience is worth more than a Jordan Bell or Anthony Brown or Ryan Kelly |
I vehemently disagree with that, especially when I see the Lakers making it to the 2nd round anyway.
Trading picks shortened the Lakers' window in the 2000's, and made the 80's window a decade long. Lottery picks, late 1sts, and 2nd rounders alike.
I just find it insane when to me, the real argument is maybe 2-3 games in the playoffs (I'm guessing) for a 2nd rounder really, and yet, that draft pick could be the 5 you wanted in the first place, plus the FA pick up, without having to worry about capspace or trades or anything else.
It has to be a really pessimistic view of the team to not see the Lakers get past the 1st round, and then get swept in the 2nd, and WCS is going to make that a 5 or 6 game 2nd round series. |
You’re looking at the most optimistic outcome of your view and the most pessimistic one of ours. Maybe WCS turns a 6 game loss to Utah into a 7 game win. Leading to an upset of GSW(which almost happened last year with an injury to their 5th best guy not even a top guy) and meeting with Boston in the finals. You’re arguing the window is shortened, we’re arguing the move opens that window in the first place. Imagine x player could be our Horry for the price of a second rounder. We lose to Utah(the Kings) instead of winning a title cause we wanted more camp fodder and a competitive summer league team from that second rounder. Na we moved past that stuff when we signed LeBron. You don’t make moves to extend a championship window when you aren’t even sure were good enough to open it yet. You open that thing and figure it out from there. |
I don't see how a window is open when it's not anticipated that the Lakers make the Finals even with WCS.
That's IFFF the Kings even make the trade. I'm arguing that you're shorting the utility to actually acquire talent onto the roster over a handful of playoff games.
As far as I'm concerned, the window opens next season when FA 2019 is signed, the cap room is used, and the roster is mostly set for a few years. Then sure, consider that kind of move. But for now, it's still talent accumulation because LAL hasn't proven to be WCF/Finals level yet.
Shorting types like Jordan Bell, DRaymond Green, and Clint Capela over playoff games, I can't imagine. ALL of those guys extend playoff series for years in the future for their respective teams, not just 1 season.
That's why I disagree with the argument.
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The Juggernaut
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| The Shaq Kobe dynasty was shortened because of trading 1st rounders not 2nd rounders. You are over valuing 2nd rd picks this isn’t the nfl draft |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | The Shaq Kobe dynasty was shortened because of trading 1st rounders not 2nd rounders. You are over valuing 2nd rd picks this isn’t the nfl draft |
The draft is drastically different than it was 15 years ago.
But, you also can't tell me that Carlos Boozer wouldn't have been a more permanent fix next to Shaq instead of AC Green, who retired, Horace Grant, who played a great year, then burned out and retired, and then Horry, who wasn't really a 36mpg guy at the time.
It would have actually fit Dr. Buss, who was ADAMANT about staying under the luxury tax during those times as well. What, a 1 or 2 year vet rookie contract wouldn't have worked? The Lakers didn't need a 11.5/7.5 rookie player? 15/10 the next year?
My favorite part is that he actually shot roughly 40% from 10' to 21', so Shaq would have had some space to work with too.
Do you really want me to go down the road of missed 2nd rounders between 2000-2005, even in those weaker drafts?
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Yes the playoff experience is worth more than a Jordan Bell or Anthony Brown or Ryan Kelly |
I vehemently disagree with that, especially when I see the Lakers making it to the 2nd round anyway.
Trading picks shortened the Lakers' window in the 2000's, and made the 80's window a decade long. Lottery picks, late 1sts, and 2nd rounders alike.
I just find it insane when to me, the real argument is maybe 2-3 games in the playoffs (I'm guessing) for a 2nd rounder really, and yet, that draft pick could be the 5 you wanted in the first place, plus the FA pick up, without having to worry about capspace or trades or anything else.
It has to be a really pessimistic view of the team to not see the Lakers get past the 1st round, and then get swept in the 2nd, and WCS is going to make that a 5 or 6 game 2nd round series. |
You’re looking at the most optimistic outcome of your view and the most pessimistic one of ours. Maybe WCS turns a 6 game loss to Utah into a 7 game win. Leading to an upset of GSW(which almost happened last year with an injury to their 5th best guy not even a top guy) and meeting with Boston in the finals. You’re arguing the window is shortened, we’re arguing the move opens that window in the first place. Imagine x player could be our Horry for the price of a second rounder. We lose to Utah(the Kings) instead of winning a title cause we wanted more camp fodder and a competitive summer league team from that second rounder. Na we moved past that stuff when we signed LeBron. You don’t make moves to extend a championship window when you aren’t even sure were good enough to open it yet. You open that thing and figure it out from there. |
I don't see how a window is open when it's not anticipated that the Lakers make the Finals even with WCS.
That's IFFF the Kings even make the trade. I'm arguing that you're shorting the utility to actually acquire talent onto the roster over a handful of playoff games.
As far as I'm concerned, the window opens next season when FA 2019 is signed, the cap room is used, and the roster is mostly set for a few years. Then sure, consider that kind of move. But for now, it's still talent accumulation because LAL hasn't proven to be WCF/Finals level yet.
Shorting types like Jordan Bell, DRaymond Green, and Clint Capela over playoff games, I can't imagine. ALL of those guys extend playoff series for years in the future for their respective teams, not just 1 season.
That's why I disagree with the argument. |
Bell, Draymond, Capela are OUTLIERS in every sense of the word. You mentioned we’ve hit on every pick since 2013, sure and even then we’ve drafted ZERO second rounders capable of being rotational players on a championship team. Not Zubac, not Brown, not even Clarkson who was a fringe rotation guy who they were phasing out and had to get some PT by default. Svi hasn’t proven it yet and Bonga is a long term project. Second rounders dont contribute 9/10 times at the least.
And to answer your earlier question, maybe WCS holds Gobert to 3 o boards instead of 5 and contests 2 shots at the rim that would have been dunks on Kuz/beas etc instead. That’s not doing much but could be an 8 point difference. Those little things are what determine playoff games. That and having a finisher which we finally have again in LeBron.
You’re stuck in the tanking mindset, it’s time to make moves to contend. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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This isn't a tanking mindset.
I just don't think a handful of games changes "playoff experience" that much, especially when a team STILL needs to acquire the talent to get to the Finals and compete.
Unless of course, you think they're already there.
I certainly don't.
I also think you're disregarding the utility of the best ways to acquire talent for the team. How the hell are 2-3 playoff games going to change a mindset about a player's offseason work ethic? The guys don't work hard enough already?
Until there's a strong argument for that, I'm the furthest from convinced. Maybe WCS does those things against Gobert, but then you're losing him next season, so what does it matter?
I also like the slight irony about calling WCS a finisher. He's somewhat average-ish around the rim, but outside of 3'... and his total lack of touch begins to show. He's one of my favorite bigs. But unless 1, Sacramento is dumb enough to make the trade and 2, WCS is capable to get the Lakers over the hump, to me, this isn't a strong argument at all. I'm certainly not choosing WCS over the potential All-Stars in line for FA 2019.
So, when the Lakers have the same problem against next year, what's going to change? 1 less pick.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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This isn't a tanking mindset. This isn't about going out of the way to stay in the lottery for better draft picks.
This is a talent acquisition mindset. Free agency. Draft picks. Trades. Draft picks by far, are the easiest ways to do it, with the best cap benefits.
I just don't think a handful of games changes "playoff experience" that much, especially when a team STILL needs to acquire the talent to get to the Finals and compete.
Unless of course, you think they're already there.
I certainly don't.
I also think you're disregarding the utility of the best ways to acquire talent for the team. How the hell are 2-3 playoff games going to change a mindset about a player's offseason work ethic? The guys don't work hard enough already?
Until there's a strong argument for that, I'm the furthest from convinced. Maybe WCS does those things against Gobert, but then you're losing him next season, so what does it matter?
I also like the slight irony about calling WCS a finisher. He's somewhat average-ish around the rim, but outside of 3'... and his total lack of touch begins to show. He's one of my favorite bigs. But unless 1, Sacramento is dumb enough to make the trade and 2, WCS is capable to get the Lakers over the hump, to me, this isn't a strong argument at all. I'm certainly not choosing WCS over the potential All-Stars in line for FA 2019.
So, when the Lakers have the same problem against next year, what's going to change? 1 less pick.
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Last edited by Mike@LG on Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | The Shaq Kobe dynasty was shortened because of trading 1st rounders not 2nd rounders. You are over valuing 2nd rd picks this isn’t the nfl draft |
The downfall of the Shaq Kobe dynasty was two fold.
Shaq got fat, was out of shape, suffered from foot problems and was no longer his dominant self.
The estranged relationship between Shaq and Kobe got to the point where they could no longer function together on the same team. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | The Shaq Kobe dynasty was shortened because of trading 1st rounders not 2nd rounders. You are over valuing 2nd rd picks this isn’t the nfl draft |
The downfall of the Shaq Kobe dynasty was two fold.
Shaq got fat, was out of shape, suffered from foot problems and was no longer his dominant self.
The estranged relationship between Shaq and Kobe got to the point where they could no longer function together on the same team. |
But I think part of that was because the Lakers couldn't control his minutes during an extended championship run.
GSW is in the middle of multiple championships. Spurs, did so throughout a decade. What do they do? Foster young talent regardless of draft position. Rest their best players. Add depth.
Kobe was ready for those minutes. He was young. Shaq was getting beat up and was exhausted. Even getting FA talent like Malone at his age helped tremendously. GP didn't even fit the system like he could have. They still finished #1 in the Pacific. But they needed youth.
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RI Laker
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| The "I got hurt on company time, so I'll rehab on company time" was the beginning of the end. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | This isn't a tanking mindset.
I just don't think a handful of games changes "playoff experience" that much, especially when a team STILL needs to acquire the talent to get to the Finals and compete.
Unless of course, you think they're already there.
I certainly don't.
I also think you're disregarding the utility of the best ways to acquire talent for the team. How the hell are 2-3 playoff games going to change a mindset about a player's offseason work ethic? The guys don't work hard enough already?
Until there's a strong argument for that, I'm the furthest from convinced. Maybe WCS does those things against Gobert, but then you're losing him next season, so what does it matter?
I also like the slight irony about calling WCS a finisher. He's somewhat average-ish around the rim, but outside of 3'... and his total lack of touch begins to show. He's one of my favorite bigs. But unless 1, Sacramento is dumb enough to make the trade and 2, WCS is capable to get the Lakers over the hump, to me, this isn't a strong argument at all. I'm certainly not choosing WCS over the potential All-Stars in line for FA 2019.
So, when the Lakers have the same problem against next year, what's going to change? 1 less pick. |
I don’t think they are there. Late second round picks aren’t the best ways to acquire talent, come on man you don’t actually believe that. Nobody is advocating giving up a lottery pick for him. Those 2-3 games do multiple things including big game experience. You don’t think those air balls in Utah had a positive impact on Kobe? I certainly do. Having WCS could allow you to win a close game you otherwise wouldn’t. He’s not some game changer at all but he could have a positive impact on a few possessions, that’s sometimes all it takes. If we beat Utah in 7 because McGee fouled out with 3 min left and WCS has to come in and keep Gobert off the boards with 5 seconds left to win that last game. Then game 1 of the WCF Curry lands on Lonzos foot, sprains his ankle and LeBron goes 40/10/10 to get the Lakers into the finals and then destroys the Celtics to win a ring. We certainly didn’t win a ring cause of WCS but we wouldn’t have won one without him. I’ll take 1 less pick for 1 more ring. It’s a crazy hypothetical but I’m willing to give up a pick in the 50s for the chance at it. |
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | The Shaq Kobe dynasty was shortened because of trading 1st rounders not 2nd rounders. You are over valuing 2nd rd picks this isn’t the nfl draft |
The downfall of the Shaq Kobe dynasty was two fold.
Shaq got fat, was out of shape, suffered from foot problems and was no longer his dominant self.
The estranged relationship between Shaq and Kobe got to the point where they could no longer function together on the same team. |
But I think part of that was because the Lakers couldn't control his minutes during an extended championship run.
GSW is in the middle of multiple championships. Spurs, did so throughout a decade. What do they do? Foster young talent regardless of draft position. Rest their best players. Add depth.
Kobe was ready for those minutes. He was young. Shaq was getting beat up and was exhausted. Even getting FA talent like Malone at his age helped tremendously. GP didn't even fit the system like he could have. They still finished #1 in the Pacific. But they needed youth. |
Agree with your reasoning but not sure it would have mattered. Wasn't the talk that Shaq was in the 300 lb range or more? |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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Wait.
How are free shots acquiring talent, not the best ways to acquire talent? It costs them research time and that's it.
2-3 airballs in Utah just meant he was back in the gym, shooting, like he would have already. Don't you think? Unlike the rest of the vets on the team, he was actually willing to take those shots. BTW, that isn't 2-3 games in a series. The Lakers were swept that year, remember?
That's just playing time in a critical game. If Luke Walton doesn't give the kids critical PT in a playoff game, that's a problem.
WCS is going to have a positive impact, but then you're losing that positive impact because he's gone next season. So, once again, IF the trade were to work, you lose him for nothing still.
But clearly you think the stars will align so that the Lakers will win *This season*. This, is the problem with the entire argument.
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | The "I got hurt on company time, so I'll rehab on company time" was the beginning of the end. |
That's right. I forgot about that.
Must have pissed Kobe to no end.
Last edited by PlantedTanks on Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | The Shaq Kobe dynasty was shortened because of trading 1st rounders not 2nd rounders. You are over valuing 2nd rd picks this isn’t the nfl draft |
The downfall of the Shaq Kobe dynasty was two fold.
Shaq got fat, was out of shape, suffered from foot problems and was no longer his dominant self.
The estranged relationship between Shaq and Kobe got to the point where they could no longer function together on the same team. |
But I think part of that was because the Lakers couldn't control his minutes during an extended championship run.
GSW is in the middle of multiple championships. Spurs, did so throughout a decade. What do they do? Foster young talent regardless of draft position. Rest their best players. Add depth.
Kobe was ready for those minutes. He was young. Shaq was getting beat up and was exhausted. Even getting FA talent like Malone at his age helped tremendously. GP didn't even fit the system like he could have. They still finished #1 in the Pacific. But they needed youth. |
Agree with your reasoning but not sure it would have mattered. Wasn't the talk that Shaq was in the 300 lb range or more? |
For sure he was more, but the physical toll of the games + the actual physical play within the games was too much to ask. The Lakers never really added depth at back up 5 because of ownership being adamant about staying under the luxury tax. Shaq paid the price.
The difference in energy level between Ben Wallace and Shaq should have been the most telling story for a series.
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Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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PlantedTanks
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 3156
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | The Shaq Kobe dynasty was shortened because of trading 1st rounders not 2nd rounders. You are over valuing 2nd rd picks this isn’t the nfl draft |
The downfall of the Shaq Kobe dynasty was two fold.
Shaq got fat, was out of shape, suffered from foot problems and was no longer his dominant self.
The estranged relationship between Shaq and Kobe got to the point where they could no longer function together on the same team. |
But I think part of that was because the Lakers couldn't control his minutes during an extended championship run.
GSW is in the middle of multiple championships. Spurs, did so throughout a decade. What do they do? Foster young talent regardless of draft position. Rest their best players. Add depth.
Kobe was ready for those minutes. He was young. Shaq was getting beat up and was exhausted. Even getting FA talent like Malone at his age helped tremendously. GP didn't even fit the system like he could have. They still finished #1 in the Pacific. But they needed youth. |
Agree with your reasoning but not sure it would have mattered. Wasn't the talk that Shaq was in the 300 lb range or more? |
For sure he was more, but the physical toll of the games + the actual physical play within the games was too much to ask. The Lakers never really added depth at back up 5 because of ownership being adamant about staying under the luxury tax. Shaq paid the price.
The difference in energy level between Ben Wallace and Shaq should have been the most telling story for a series. |
I can see both ways. Shaq paid the price but he did himself a disservice by getting so out of shape.
You are correct Buss was not overly rich like some of the other owners and he did not want to pay the luxury tax. |
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