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adkindo
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 Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
Or maybe it was the right thing to convict her.
With all her "training," this was the best she could do? That's scary to me. |
not sure what you mean....I never thought there was a pathway to acquittal for her. I always thought she had to be found guilty. I never really dug into how the manslaughter laws in Texas are written compared to Murder 2 or 3. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| hoopschick29 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
((PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED - JMK)) |
((PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED - JMK)) |
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audioaxes
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
yawn... so basically you spent hours hunting for random twitter comments to support your narrative that minorities always want something "to be outraged about" and an excuse to go riot and loot.
Im sure I can find enough random comments to claim there is "a lot of people" who believe Sasquatch and Santa Clause are long lost cousins
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
Or maybe it was the right thing to convict her.
With all her "training," this was the best she could do? That's scary to me. |
not sure what you mean....I never thought there was a pathway to acquittal for her. I always thought she had to be found guilty. I never really dug into how the manslaughter laws in Texas are written compared to Murder 2 or 3. |
No. I disagree with your implication that the jury voted guilty bc of a possible race riot. Maybe they saw (as you seem to agree) that there was no way she was acquitted based on the evidence.
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hoopschick29
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
((PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED - JMK)) |
((PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED - JMK)) |
((PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED - JMK))
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nickuku
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
This is literally one of the dumbest takes I've ever seen
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | Never, ever, did I think that a guilty verdict on the murder charge would happen. Though it is richly deserved.
Unfortunately, I think that an appeal of that verdict will occur. I don't know what the legal possibilities are there, whether an appeal could force a lesser charge or whether it would mean there'd have to be a new trial. Perhaps AH (or someone else with legal expertise) could advise. |
The exclusion of the expert will be one issue. Otherwise, I don’t know of any appealable issues. Dallas (like Houston) had a blue wave, so the court of appeals is not full of pro-police types. She will have trouble selling mistake of fact as a matter of law. I would say that her prospects are poor.
I am on a Facebook group for Texas lawyers, and a couple friends of mine are high profile, well connected criminal defense lawyers. If I hear an educated discussion of the appellate issues, I’ll come back and report. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Hmm, don't see an appeal of this prevailing unless there was jury misconduct, or the judge gave wrong jury instructions. She actually allowed the defense to use the castle doctrine as a jury instruction (which if she didn't, maybe the defense would have appealed on that ground). |
imagine that, the racial make up of the jury is important[/quote]
I think the defense wanted the venue changed (so as to probably get more rural/conservative/lighter skinned folks) from Dallas. But doubt that will be a successful appeal argument. I think when procedurally things are fine (especially since the judge bent over backwards and allowed the castle doctrine jury instruction) like it seemed to be, there is strong chance it'll stand, even if the jury construction was mostly minority. (b/c that argument isn't automatically successful when a person of color's jury is predominantly white).[/quote]
I had the same reaction to the castle instruction. This is why I said it probably wouldn’t make a difference. I’m surprised that they rang her up for murder, though. |
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | The issue was never whether or not it was murder. The issue wasn't even intent. She intended to kill the man when she shot him center mass 'per her training.' The question all along was 'Reasonableness.' Did she act REASONABLY in the seconds leading up to and after her intentionally shooting and killing this man. To make that determination, you have to first determine whether or not you actually bought that story she gave. But even if you believe that load of bull, there are still details that simply do not compute.
FOR EXAMPLE: how did she not see that bright red mat in front of Botham's door? She never sufficiently explained even on the stand how she didn't see the mat.
FOR EXAMPLE #2: When she went to put the key in the hole and the door pushed open, she saw a dark shadowy figure in the living room. Why didn't she back out of the door and radio for back up, 'per her training?'
FOR EXAMPLE #3: After she shot this man, she didn't render him any aid. That's also something she should have done, 'per her training.' But she didn't do that. She let this innocent man bleed out on his living room floor. Granted, it only took 3 minutes or so for back up to arrive from the moment she called it in, but that was at least 3 minutes she was not spending trying to keep this man alive.
Seems to me the only time Ms. Amber deployed her training is when she was shooting Botham Jean dead. Everything else both before and after the shooting is real sketchy. And clearly the jury bought NONE of it. Good for them. |
I think reasonableness goes more towards her DEFENSE.
Prosecution had to show for purposes of murder, that she had intent.
I thought it would be manslaughter but I also do not see a successful appeal either. |
I'm not an attorney, but no one pulls a gun, points it at you and pulls the trigger unless their intent is to do great bodily harm.
FWIW, I posted the Texas statute earlier. If you cause someone great bodily injury that leads to their death, it's murder even if you weren't trying to kill them.
IMVHO, the DA sent it to the grand jury in hopes that the GJ would fail to indict or charge her with murder, because manslaughter would be hard to defend. I do not think the DA, DPD or anyone in the system wanted the cop to be convicted. Were it not for public outcry, the worst that would've happened to the cop was a quiet, brief suspension and reassignment. Maybe her long term promotion prospects would've suffered, but she'd have been able to stay on the force until retirement.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| hoopschick29 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
((PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED - JMK)) |
((PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED - JMK)) |
((PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED - JMK)) |
((PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED - JMK)) |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I think reasonableness goes more towards her DEFENSE.
Prosecution had to show for purposes of murder, that she had intent.
I thought it would be manslaughter but I also do not see a successful appeal either. |
The prosecution nailed her on intent, though frankly it was easy to do. She admitted that she shot him center mass, as she was trained. Cops are trained to shoot to kill. Shooting people in the leg is for the movies. If a cop is justified in shooting someone, they are supposed to shoot to kill. She admitted all of this. She just wasn’t justified. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | not sure what you mean....I never thought there was a pathway to acquittal for her. I always thought she had to be found guilty. I never really dug into how the manslaughter laws in Texas are written compared to Murder 2 or 3. |
Texas really doesn’t have 1, 2, and 3. There is capital murder and there is murder. There is some variant for crimes of passion. I think this goes to the degree of the felony, but is not a distinct crime. Otherwise, the distinctions you hear about in other states go to sentencing. This actually makes a lot of sense if you think about it. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
((PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED - JMK)) |
((PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED - JMK)) |
((PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED - JMK)) |
((PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED - JMK)) |
People...People....Play nice. Attack the post not the poster
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | not sure what you mean....I never thought there was a pathway to acquittal for her. I always thought she had to be found guilty. I never really dug into how the manslaughter laws in Texas are written compared to Murder 2 or 3. |
Texas really doesn’t have 1, 2, and 3. There is capital murder and there is murder. There is some variant for crimes of passion. I think this goes to the degree of the felony, but is not a distinct crime. Otherwise, the distinctions you hear about in other states go to sentencing. This actually makes a lot of sense if you think about it. |
what are attorney's in TX expecting to be the sentence? |
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nickuku
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
You are a WHOLE ASS liar. |
take your ignorance and name calling somewhere else... |
You first. You're a liar, and you're a bigot. |
a liar about what? a bigot in regards to what? Those are just some of your low IQ go to's when you get triggered for whatever reason? You do not know me, so whatever your problems are....those are yours to deal with. |
1. Posts something stupid and inflammatory.
2. People get upset and poster gets called out.
3. ITS JUST A JOKE BRO!!!!
4. Slings more insults.
5. ????
Straight from the Trump playbook. You're not even trying to hide it anymore are you?
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| nickuku wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
You are a WHOLE ASS liar. |
take your ignorance and name calling somewhere else... |
You first. You're a liar, and you're a bigot. |
a liar about what? a bigot in regards to what? Those are just some of your low IQ go to's when you get triggered for whatever reason? You do not know me, so whatever your problems are....those are yours to deal with. |
1. Posts something stupid and inflammatory.
2. People get upset and poster gets called out.
3. ITS JUST A JOKE BRO!!!!
4. Slings more insults.
5. ????
Straight from the Trump playbook. You're not even trying to hide it anymore are you? |
first, let's be honest at what is going on here. You routinely tag an indirect response to my posts about how it is the "dumbest thing you have ever read"....and you routinely attempt to get others involved by indirectly speaking about my post to someone else. I routinely ignore your comments because you seem to be baiting me and just have personal problems. Like all minions, you seek and need the inclusion so attacking anything the non-liberal says feels like an easy path to that inclusion of the majority. I get it....people like you clearly need this false sense of value.
Now to your points....I posted nothing I consider "stupid" or thought it would be inflammatory....unless it touched a very personal nerve. Did you take vacation days this week? Nobody called me out, I was personally attacked with personal insults that were simply baseless. I never said it was just a joke, nor did I initially respond with "more" insults because there were never any original insults towards anyone from me. After being personally insulted, I refrained from being too personal and requested the ignorant name calling be taken somewhere else. Subsequently I was personally attacked again being called a liar and a "bigot" and it became clear that this person was triggered and tossing out the standard left attacks.
Your final point says it all. You have real emotional problems in that you allow a national elected official to literally invade every aspect of your thought. You are unable to control that hate / rage, and seek relief by picking a fight with someone on a message board that you do not know, nor did I direct anything towards you or your beliefs. I did not follow a playbook or is this issue related to "Trump" in any way from my perspective. I feel I responded the best I could to defend myself without crossing lines, because I know if I called someone an ass, liar, or bigot, I would quickly be suspended. |
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vanexelent
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Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| nickuku wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
You are a WHOLE ASS liar. |
take your ignorance and name calling somewhere else... |
You first. You're a liar, and you're a bigot. |
a liar about what? a bigot in regards to what? Those are just some of your low IQ go to's when you get triggered for whatever reason? You do not know me, so whatever your problems are....those are yours to deal with. |
1. Posts something stupid and inflammatory.
2. People get upset and poster gets called out.
3. ITS JUST A JOKE BRO!!!!
4. Slings more insults.
5. ????
Straight from the Trump playbook. You're not even trying to hide it anymore are you? |
Yup. They like to feign ignorance or impartiality at first, before bringing up oddly specific gripes about issues (mostly racial, sexist, anti-progressive type stuff). Then they claim everyone's "triggered" when they disagree with them or see through it. |
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adkindo
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | Yup. They like to feign ignorance or impartiality at first, before bringing up oddly specific gripes about issues (mostly racial, sexist, anti-progressive type stuff). Then they claim everyone's "triggered" when they disagree with them or see through it. |
remember this guy.....I have been on this board for almost 15 years, and I talk to you guys about movies, tv shows, music, sports and cat video's....then you drop into a thread and speak about me personally and insinuate my character is flawed, etc. etc. Not sure how you are able to do that switch, but you are not the only one....so let's not pretend I am worthy of conversation when the next Netflix series is released or during the Notre Dame/USC game. I have to say....if I thought someone was truly a racist, sexist or just a bad person....I would not care what they said on any of those topics either. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | what are attorney's in TX expecting to be the sentence? |
Some of the evidence at the sentencing has been inflammatory. I'm surprised that the judge allowed all of it, to be honest. With this sort of evidence, you just never know.
Link |
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nickuku
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Joined: 09 Jul 2010
Posts: 7844
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
You are a WHOLE ASS liar. |
take your ignorance and name calling somewhere else... |
You first. You're a liar, and you're a bigot. |
a liar about what? a bigot in regards to what? Those are just some of your low IQ go to's when you get triggered for whatever reason? You do not know me, so whatever your problems are....those are yours to deal with. |
1. Posts something stupid and inflammatory.
2. People get upset and poster gets called out.
3. ITS JUST A JOKE BRO!!!!
4. Slings more insults.
5. ????
Straight from the Trump playbook. You're not even trying to hide it anymore are you? |
first, let's be honest at what is going on here. You routinely tag an indirect response to my posts about how it is the "dumbest thing you have ever read"....and you routinely attempt to get others involved by indirectly speaking about my post to someone else. I routinely ignore your comments because you seem to be baiting me and just have personal problems. Like all minions, you seek and need the inclusion so attacking anything the non-liberal says feels like an easy path to that inclusion of the majority. I get it....people like you clearly need this false sense of value.
Now to your points....I posted nothing I consider "stupid" or thought it would be inflammatory....unless it touched a very personal nerve. Did you take vacation days this week? Nobody called me out, I was personally attacked with personal insults that were simply baseless. I never said it was just a joke, nor did I initially respond with "more" insults because there were never any original insults towards anyone from me. After being personally insulted, I refrained from being too personal and requested the ignorant name calling be taken somewhere else. Subsequently I was personally attacked again being called a liar and a "bigot" and it became clear that this person was triggered and tossing out the standard left attacks.
Your final point says it all. You have real emotional problems in that you allow a national elected official to literally invade every aspect of your thought. You are unable to control that hate / rage, and seek relief by picking a fight with someone on a message board that you do not know, nor did I direct anything towards you or your beliefs. I did not follow a playbook or is this issue related to "Trump" in any way from my perspective. I feel I responded the best I could to defend myself without crossing lines, because I know if I called someone an ass, liar, or bigot, I would quickly be suspended. |
I didn't know you thought so much of me. Thank you.
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Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
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vanexelent
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Posts: 30081
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Yup. They like to feign ignorance or impartiality at first, before bringing up oddly specific gripes about issues (mostly racial, sexist, anti-progressive type stuff). Then they claim everyone's "triggered" when they disagree with them or see through it. |
remember this guy.....I have been on this board for almost 15 years, and I talk to you guys about movies, tv shows, music, sports and cat video's....then you drop into a thread and speak about me personally and insinuate my character is flawed, etc. etc. Not sure how you are able to do that switch, but you are not the only one....so let's not pretend I am worthy of conversation when the next Netflix series is released or during the Notre Dame/USC game. I have to say....if I thought someone was truly a racist, sexist or just a bad person....I would not care what they said on any of those topics either. |
We're all capable of code switching aren't we? I talk sports and life with many Trump supporters, that are friends and family. Sports and entertainment tends to transcend politics. But let's not pretend you didn't come into this thread exemplifying the same characteristics of closet MAGA folks: feigning impartiality, pretending you don't see race involved, then doing a deep dive into some anti-liberal conspiracy theory about blacks wanting a race war. |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:34 am Post subject: |
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I am OK with this.
Her story never made any sense to me, as I believe DMR pointed out above, if she wasn't a cop that story wouldn't even have been taken seriously.
So you enter the wrong apt by error (supposedly) and see a black man watching TV and eating a bowl of ice cream. Why do you shoot again instead of just exiting the premises?
Do the crime, do the time...maybe she will be honest now about what really went down and why.
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Not sure if I asked this previously, but was she represented by the Dallas PD lawyers?
If so, does their argument that she was tired after a long day at work (being a police officer) do any damage to them going forward? As in, if there is a police-officer shooting and we later find out that officer was working for 10+ hours or something, that could be used against them? |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | Not sure if I asked this previously, but was she represented by the Dallas PD lawyers?
If so, does their argument that she was tired after a long day at work (being a police officer) do any damage to them going forward? As in, if there is a police-officer shooting and we later find out that officer was working for 10+ hours or something, that could be used against them? |
I am told that her lawyers are prominent defense attorneys. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | Not sure if I asked this previously, but was she represented by the Dallas PD lawyers?
If so, does their argument that she was tired after a long day at work (being a police officer) do any damage to them going forward? As in, if there is a police-officer shooting and we later find out that officer was working for 10+ hours or something, that could be used against them? |
I am told that her lawyers are prominent defense attorneys. |
Would you have put her on the stand?
Not sure if her statement about how she intended to kill him b/c her police training told her to shoot to kill helped her honestly. Could see the jury using that to show she had intended to kill him.
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