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kikanga
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 Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Unless I'm mistaken, murder implies premeditation. Does anybody know how the prosecution was able to prove it was premeditated?
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Notice ^^ How Former cop and attorney Pete Schulte quickly, astutely, identifies "Conservative" with Racist Pro-Fascist Authoritarian
Where is the evidence on whether she used a key in his door
Where is her drug test from the night she killed him
Where are her social media posts saying people should thank her for not murdering them
Saying she wears black so she is already dressed for your funeral
***Someone said he felt The French Family Attorney /Costco/ was paid off
Is the prosecution going to bring this data to light Urinalysis Electronic Lock Data Social Media
I tell you this. If a person drove drunk and killed someone with their car it would be a mandatory sentence
This woman claims she was drunk due to being overworked
While in this exhausted state she entered the wrong home
Who knows how she got in there
While there AS ANY NORMAL HOME DWELLER WOULD The renter was startled and she blew him away
In mere seconds she murdered him being under NO Threat whatsoever
BTW folks.
Only black people break into homes and put pictures of themselves and their family up
Then sit down and watch TV
I saw it on Dave Chapelle so it must be true
Her social media posts indicated she wanted to kill someone |
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focus
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Unless I'm mistaken, murder implies premeditation. Does anybody know how the prosecution was able to prove it was premeditated? |
You're mistaken.
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.19.htm
| Quote: | Sec. 19.02. MURDER. (a) In this section:
(1) "Adequate cause" means cause that would commonly produce a degree of anger, rage, resentment, or terror in a person of ordinary temper, sufficient to render the mind incapable of cool reflection.
(2) "Sudden passion" means passion directly caused by and arising out of provocation by the individual killed or another acting with the person killed which passion arises at the time of the offense and is not solely the result of former provocation.
(b) A person commits an offense if he:
(1) intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual;
(2) intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual; or
(3) commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission or attempt, he commits or attempts to commit an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual.
(c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), an offense under this section is a felony of the first degree.
(d) At the punishment stage of a trial, the defendant may raise the issue as to whether he caused the death under the immediate influence of sudden passion arising from an adequate cause. If the defendant proves the issue in the affirmative by a preponderance of the evidence, the offense is a felony of the second degree. |
Putting a bullet into someone meets the highlighted portion of the statute.
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Guilty....Murder....details coming |
Wow. Missed it while high typing my wall of text above
African American judge and how many black jurors?
Props to justice |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Never, ever, did I think that a guilty verdict on the murder charge would happen. Though it is richly deserved.
Unfortunately, I think that an appeal of that verdict will occur. I don't know what the legal possibilities are there, whether an appeal could force a lesser charge or whether it would mean there'd have to be a new trial. Perhaps AH (or someone else with legal expertise) could advise.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:08 am Post subject: |
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I didn't see an article on the decision.
Amber Guyger is found guilty of murder in the shooting death of Botham Jean in his apartment
LINK
| Quote: | (CNN)(CNN) -- A Dallas jury on Tuesday found former police officer Amber Guyger guilty of murder for fatally shooting her unarmed neighbor, Botham Jean, in his own apartment, which she said she mistook as hers.
The jury deliberated less than 24 hours. The verdict followed a trial that has captured national attention and sparked outrage. |
Justice For Botham: Amber Guyger’s Jury Isn’t As Lily White As She Probably Hoped
LINK
| Quote: | | Jean’s family lawyer in the civil case, Lee Merritt, tweeted on Monday, “We are all relieved that the jury hearing the #AmberGuyger case reflects the diversity of Dallas County where the crime took place. From my estimation 5 black jurors, 5 Hispanic/Asian, 2 white (2 black & 2 white alternates).” |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | Never, ever, did I think that a guilty verdict on the murder charge would happen. Though it is richly deserved.
Unfortunately, I think that an appeal of that verdict will occur. I don't know what the legal possibilities are there, whether an appeal could force a lesser charge or whether it would mean there'd have to be a new trial. Perhaps AH (or someone else with legal expertise) could advise. |
Hmm, don't see an appeal of this prevailing unless there was jury misconduct, or the judge gave wrong jury instructions. She actually allowed the defense to use the castle doctrine as a jury instruction (which if she didn't, maybe the defense would have appealed on that ground).
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | Never, ever, did I think that a guilty verdict on the murder charge would happen. Though it is richly deserved.
Unfortunately, I think that an appeal of that verdict will occur. I don't know what the legal possibilities are there, whether an appeal could force a lesser charge or whether it would mean there'd have to be a new trial. Perhaps AH (or someone else with legal expertise) could advise. |
Hmm, don't see an appeal of this prevailing unless there was jury misconduct, or the judge gave wrong jury instructions. She actually allowed the defense to use the castle doctrine as a jury instruction (which if she didn't, maybe the defense would have appealed on that ground). |
imagine that, the racial make up of the jury is important |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | Never, ever, did I think that a guilty verdict on the murder charge would happen. Though it is richly deserved.
Unfortunately, I think that an appeal of that verdict will occur. I don't know what the legal possibilities are there, whether an appeal could force a lesser charge or whether it would mean there'd have to be a new trial. Perhaps AH (or someone else with legal expertise) could advise. |
Hmm, don't see an appeal of this prevailing unless there was jury misconduct, or the judge gave wrong jury instructions. She actually allowed the defense to use the castle doctrine as a jury instruction (which if she didn't, maybe the defense would have appealed on that ground). |
imagine that, the racial make up of the jury is important |
I think the defense wanted the venue changed (so as to probably get more rural/conservative/lighter skinned folks) from Dallas. But doubt that will be a successful appeal argument. I think when procedurally things are fine (especially since the judge bent over backwards and allowed the castle doctrine jury instruction) like it seemed to be, there is strong chance it'll stand, even if the jury construction was mostly minority. (b/c that argument isn't automatically successful when a person of color's jury is predominantly white).
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | You're mistaken.
. |
I'm never gonna complain about a cop getting punished for killing an unarmed civilian. But what separates murder and manslaughter then if it isn't premeditation? Not a rhetorical question. I genuinely don't know.
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Unless I'm mistaken, murder implies premeditation. Does anybody know how the prosecution was able to prove it was premeditated? |
I know nothing, but a quick google search resulted in this: accidental killing through extreme recklessness can constitute second degree murder. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | You're mistaken.
. |
I'm never gonna complain about a cop getting punished for killing an unarmed civilian. But what separates murder and manslaughter then if it isn't premeditation? Not a rhetorical question. I genuinely don't know. |
My legal prediction was manslaughter b/c I thought they couldn't prove specific intent to murder (i.e. level of premeditation).
But not sure they will be able to challenge it if the jury in its province thought that the evidence showed she had some intent to kill (maybe when she testified that based on her police training when she pulled the trigger she intended to kill?).
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | Never, ever, did I think that a guilty verdict on the murder charge would happen. Though it is richly deserved.
Unfortunately, I think that an appeal of that verdict will occur. I don't know what the legal possibilities are there, whether an appeal could force a lesser charge or whether it would mean there'd have to be a new trial. Perhaps AH (or someone else with legal expertise) could advise. |
Hmm, don't see an appeal of this prevailing unless there was jury misconduct, or the judge gave wrong jury instructions. She actually allowed the defense to use the castle doctrine as a jury instruction (which if she didn't, maybe the defense would have appealed on that ground). |
I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that an appeal can be based on a conviction that is too severe for the basis of the facts - or something to that effect. I recall seeing something along those lines in the past.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | Never, ever, did I think that a guilty verdict on the murder charge would happen. Though it is richly deserved.
Unfortunately, I think that an appeal of that verdict will occur. I don't know what the legal possibilities are there, whether an appeal could force a lesser charge or whether it would mean there'd have to be a new trial. Perhaps AH (or someone else with legal expertise) could advise. |
Hmm, don't see an appeal of this prevailing unless there was jury misconduct, or the judge gave wrong jury instructions. She actually allowed the defense to use the castle doctrine as a jury instruction (which if she didn't, maybe the defense would have appealed on that ground). |
I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that an appeal can be based on a conviction that is too severe for the basis of the facts - or something to that effect. I recall seeing something along those lines in the past. |
If there is absolutely no factual basis, maybe. But here, it was certainly in the province of the jury to consider whether it was intentional murder. That's why I think the judge allowed the castle doctrine defense to peel out possible appeal avenues. Unless there are procedural defects, not sure efficacious it will be to challenge whether the jury's verdict was based on fact or not. I personally didn't see intentional murder, but the jury obviously did.
AH knows Texas law much better than I do. Would love to hear him weigh in.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | You're mistaken.
. |
I'm never gonna complain about a cop getting punished for killing an unarmed civilian. But what separates murder and manslaughter then if it isn't premeditation? Not a rhetorical question. I genuinely don't know. |
My legal prediction was manslaughter b/c I thought they couldn't prove specific intent to murder (i.e. level of premeditation).
But not sure they will be able to challenge it if the jury in its province thought that the evidence showed she had some intent to kill (maybe when she testified that based on her police training when she pulled the trigger she intended to kill?). |
Well I'm glad she's been held accountable for her actions. And I will continue to keep my front door locked at all times. Don't need to be shot on my own couch after a 14 hour day.
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Last edited by kikanga on Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | You're mistaken.
. |
I'm never gonna complain about a cop getting punished for killing an unarmed civilian. But what separates murder and manslaughter then if it isn't premeditation? Not a rhetorical question. I genuinely don't know. |
My legal prediction was manslaughter b/c I thought they couldn't prove specific intent to murder (i.e. level of premeditation).
But not sure they will be able to challenge it if the jury in its province thought that the evidence showed she had some intent to kill (maybe when she testified that based on her police training when she pulled the trigger she intended to kill?). |
Well I'm glad she's been held accountable for her actions. And I will continue to keep my front door locked at all times. Don't need to be shot on my own couch after 14 hour day. |
PSA MEMO: do not eat a bowl of ice cream in your own house and say "hey hey" when an intruder bursts into your home with a pistol pointed at you.
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | You're mistaken.
. |
I'm never gonna complain about a cop getting punished for killing an unarmed civilian. But what separates murder and manslaughter then if it isn't premeditation? Not a rhetorical question. I genuinely don't know. |
My legal prediction was manslaughter b/c I thought they couldn't prove specific intent to murder (i.e. level of premeditation).
But not sure they will be able to challenge it if the jury in its province thought that the evidence showed she had some intent to kill (maybe when she testified that based on her police training when she pulled the trigger she intended to kill?). |
Well I'm glad she's been held accountable for her actions. And I will continue to keep my front door locked at all times. Don't need to be shot on my own couch after 14 hour day. |
PSA MEMO: do not eat a bowl of ice cream in your own house and say "hey hey" when an intruder bursts into your home with a pistol pointed at you. |
maybe easier not to be black at your own house when an intruder bursts into your home with a pistol pointed at you |
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hoopschick29
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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The issue was never whether or not it was murder. The issue wasn't even intent. She intended to kill the man when she shot him center mass 'per her training.' The question all along was 'Reasonableness.' Did she act REASONABLY in the seconds leading up to and after her intentionally shooting and killing this man. To make that determination, you have to first determine whether or not you actually bought that story she gave. But even if you believe that load of bull, there are still details that simply do not compute.
FOR EXAMPLE: how did she not see that bright red mat in front of Botham's door? She never sufficiently explained even on the stand how she didn't see the mat.
FOR EXAMPLE #2: When she went to put the key in the hole and the door pushed open, she saw a dark shadowy figure in the living room. Why didn't she back out of the door and radio for back up, 'per her training?'
FOR EXAMPLE #3: After she shot this man, she didn't render him any aid. That's also something she should have done, 'per her training.' But she didn't do that. She let this innocent man bleed out on his living room floor. Granted, it only took 3 minutes or so for back up to arrive from the moment she called it in, but that was at least 3 minutes she was not spending trying to keep this man alive.
Seems to me the only time Ms. Amber deployed her training is when she was shooting Botham Jean dead. Everything else both before and after the shooting is real sketchy. And clearly the jury bought NONE of it. Good for them.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| hoopschick29 wrote: | The issue was never whether or not it was murder. The issue wasn't even intent. She intended to kill the man when she shot him center mass 'per her training.' The question all along was 'Reasonableness.' Did she act REASONABLY in the seconds leading up to and after her intentionally shooting and killing this man. To make that determination, you have to first determine whether or not you actually bought that story she gave. But even if you believe that load of bull, there are still details that simply do not compute.
FOR EXAMPLE: how did she not see that bright red mat in front of Botham's door? She never sufficiently explained even on the stand how she didn't see the mat.
FOR EXAMPLE #2: When she went to put the key in the hole and the door pushed open, she saw a dark shadowy figure in the living room. Why didn't she back out of the door and radio for back up, 'per her training?'
FOR EXAMPLE #3: After she shot this man, she didn't render him any aid. That's also something she should have done, 'per her training.' But she didn't do that. She let this innocent man bleed out on his living room floor. Granted, it only took 3 minutes or so for back up to arrive from the moment she called it in, but that was at least 3 minutes she was not spending trying to keep this man alive.
Seems to me the only time Ms. Amber deployed her training is when she was shooting Botham Jean dead. Everything else both before and after the shooting is real sketchy. And clearly the jury bought NONE of it. Good for them. |
I think reasonableness goes more towards her DEFENSE.
Prosecution had to show for purposes of murder, that she had intent.
I thought it would be manslaughter but I also do not see a successful appeal either.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
Or maybe it was the right thing to convict her.
With all her "training," this was the best she could do? That's scary to me.
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hoopschick29
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
((PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED - JMK))
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
White people not seeing the racial component.
Police officers draw and fire their weapons faster at blacks and minorities than whites
This woman killed the negro instantly (*I think the force should have weeded her out
for her social media posts - a homicidal hothead afraid of everyone so she
Threatened everyone
Her sexting partner should have taken the stand under oath. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| hoopschick29 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | I did not pay much attention to this case after it happened, and I had no idea it became such a racially divisive case until today really. Clearly I could always see the potential, but never saw anything come to light that suggested racial motivations with any of the parties.
Ben Crump was the Jean family attorney? Reading comments on Twitter over the last few hours, and a lot of people that seem to be very much against the cop also seem upset she did not get off because they wanted to see rioting or something to be outraged about. |
((PERSONAL ATTACK DELETED - JMK)) |
He's quite a trip with his insincerity bordering on intentional trolling |
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