White's median outcome is Lakers Clarkson w 38% 3s and slightly less paint attacking. He's a shooting guard passer, his ceiling there is rookie Clarkson
Clarkson came out of MIZZ as a junior who was still very raw in most aspects as a guard, especially feel for the game, understanding pace and decision-making.
White is coming out as a Freshman with advanced 3-level scoring skills, leading UNC to the NCAA tourney.
I don't think they are anything alike now nor does White project to be anything like Clarkson later. Clarkson's elite athleticism allowed him to get away with a lot of things White can't. Conversely, White's skills at this point allow him to a lot of things Clarkson couldn't at the same age.
I just don't buy Coby creating consistently/confidently off the dribble, he's shaky af setting up an offense or having to dribble for a long time...so w that said I don't buy the passing so much. He has special flashes of dribble moves..kinda like a great handling SG would, in spurts to beat his defender only.
White led UNC as a Freshman PG to the #8 Pace in the Nation, #18 Offensive Rating, #6 in total points and a 29-7 record all the way to being a #1 seed in the NCAA Tourney and making it to the Sweet 16. I don't think his ability to run a team is in question.
He's not a true PG. He's a combo guard. He's a good scoring guard. You do know he's like 6'5, right? He uses angles and handles to get where he needs to be. He's not going to blow you away with his speed but he has LEGIT NBA attack skills.
For reference, D'Angelo Russell came into the NBA lacking NBA foot speed or athleticism but could create space by using his handles and exploiting angles...Russell STILL doesn't have blow-by speed or NBA level lateral speed, as evidenced by his very poor man defense.
I'm a Duke fan. I still like Coby White. He projects as a combo guard who has all of the tools to be an efficient 3-level-scorer, able to post up smaller guards.
When you watch him play, you can see all of the fundamentals drilled into every aspect of his game. It's like he was raised and coached by a College Coach. From his jab step to his triple threat, he plays the right way. No wasted moves nor any flashy, unnecessary play. He looks like he's just going through practice drills in the game, which shows how much of a gym rat he is.
I like Coby White, but I think UNC's offense might just be a Roy Williams thing.
Roy also has Senior PGs who've been in that system like Seventh Woods. White's ability to run a team was questioned. If that were the case, he wouldn't have started at PG for UNC.
Nassir Little was a MUCH higher rated player and he didn't start for UNC.
So I agree, UNC's offense is really good. Roy wouldn't trust a PG to run it if he couldn't run it.
White's median outcome is Lakers Clarkson w 38% 3s and slightly less paint attacking. He's a shooting guard passer, his ceiling there is rookie Clarkson
Clarkson came out of MIZZ as a junior who was still very raw in most aspects as a guard, especially feel for the game, understanding pace and decision-making.
White is coming out as a Freshman with advanced 3-level scoring skills, leading UNC to the NCAA tourney.
I don't think they are anything alike now nor does White project to be anything like Clarkson later. Clarkson's elite athleticism allowed him to get away with a lot of things White can't. Conversely, White's skills at this point allow him to a lot of things Clarkson couldn't at the same age.
I just don't buy Coby creating consistently/confidently off the dribble, he's shaky af setting up an offense or having to dribble for a long time...so w that said I don't buy the passing so much. He has special flashes of dribble moves..kinda like a great handling SG would, in spurts to beat his defender only.
White led UNC as a Freshman PG to the #8 Pace in the Nation, #18 Offensive Rating, #6 in total points and a 29-7 record all the way to being a #1 seed in the NCAA Tourney and making it to the Sweet 16. I don't think his ability to run a team is in question.
He's not a true PG. He's a combo guard. He's a good scoring guard. You do know he's like 6'5, right? He uses angles and handles to get where he needs to be. He's not going to blow you away with his speed but he has LEGIT NBA attack skills.
For reference, D'Angelo Russell came into the NBA lacking NBA foot speed or athleticism but could create space by using his handles and exploiting angles...Russell STILL doesn't have blow-by speed or NBA level lateral speed, as evidenced by his very poor man defense.
I'm a Duke fan. I still like Coby White. He projects as a combo guard who has all of the tools to be an efficient 3-level-scorer, able to post up smaller guards.
When you watch him play, you can see all of the fundamentals drilled into every aspect of his game. It's like he was raised and coached by a College Coach. From his jab step to his triple threat, he plays the right way. No wasted moves nor any flashy, unnecessary play. He looks like he's just going through practice drills in the game, which shows how much of a gym rat he is.
I like Coby White, but I think UNC's offense might just be a Roy Williams thing.
Roy also has Senior PGs who've been in that system like Seventh Woods. White's ability to run a team was questioned. If that were the case, he wouldn't have started at PG for UNC.
Nassir Little was a MUCH higher rated player and he didn't start for UNC.
So I agree, UNC's offense is really good. Roy wouldn't trust a PG to run it if he couldn't run it.
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 8518 Location: Left coast
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:30 pm Post subject:
Mike@LG wrote:
Goga still grossly underrated? Cool.
I like his ability and quickness which lead to highlights of chase down blocks, spins and finishes, and outside shots while not needing to be comfortably standing still.
He combines what McGee and Wagner do and the more I think of it, I'd love it if he comes here. Maybe I'd get over trading Zubac. 😳
Ive become turned off to any player in this lottery who would be a liability on defense. One common thread you see with the best teams in the NBA is having an abundance of 2-way players on their team.
Completely agree.
No D, no Draftee if I am whoever is making decisions for the Lakers. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny
I don’t expect him to be able to close in playoffs on D. I don’t want any anymore dinosaurs on D. I know you say “Zu and Bryant can” but you see exactly where Zubac’s D is getting him in the playoffs.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:30 pm Post subject:
Luminous8 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Goga still grossly underrated? Cool.
I don’t expect him to be able to close in playoffs on D. I don’t want any anymore dinosaurs on D. I know you say “Zu and Bryant can” but you see exactly where Zubac’s D is getting him in the playoffs.
In a weak draft, there are just certain things that can't be asked for. Otherwise, Reddish would shoot, Jontay would be healthy, Coby would have wingspan, Barrett made better decisions, etc.
At some point, it's the BPA of what's left. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
I don’t expect him to be able to close in playoffs on D. I don’t want any anymore dinosaurs on D. I know you say “Zu and Bryant can” but you see exactly where Zubac’s D is getting him in the playoffs.
In a weak draft, there are just certain things that can't be asked for. Otherwise, Reddish would shoot, Jontay would be healthy, Coby would have wingspan, Barrett made better decisions, etc.
At some point, it's the BPA of what's left.
I can respect that, but for me personally, I just think there are going to be better options available where we pick. NAW would still be ideal.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:52 pm Post subject:
Luminous8 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Goga still grossly underrated? Cool.
I don’t expect him to be able to close in playoffs on D. I don’t want any anymore dinosaurs on D. I know you say “Zu and Bryant can” but you see exactly where Zubac’s D is getting him in the playoffs.
In a weak draft, there are just certain things that can't be asked for. Otherwise, Reddish would shoot, Jontay would be healthy, Coby would have wingspan, Barrett made better decisions, etc.
At some point, it's the BPA of what's left.
I can respect that, but for me personally, I just think there are going to be better options available where we pick. NAW would still be ideal.
Yeah I've been shuffling guys around #11. NAW was my choice 3-4 weeks ago. Right now, it's KPJ.
I just think the impact of 5s that can actually shoot, rebound, and swat, even if they aren't great PnR guys, is incredibly high. It's not so much for that defensive weakness, but rather, how much help those particular skill sets help the other 4 guys on the floor. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:08 pm Post subject:
I think by the end of this week, Twitter will start exploding with Combine invitations. Based on previous years, the invitations to about 60ish players will be sent this week, and received later this week and early next week. The NBA Combine begins May 15th.
Seeing a somewhat sad trend of underclassmen not only declaring, but making it clear they will remain in the draft.....and many of those guys clearly do not appear ready. I think much of it is being driven by the FBI scandal and the expected followup from the NCAA. There has been speculation that the reason so many of LSU's underclassmen are declaring even though they are not even appearing in mock drafts is to avoid having to cooperate with the NCAA investigation. Guys like Quentin Grimes of Kansas declaring and making it clear he will not return to school simply does not make sense on the surface after a terrible Freshman season, but again his name has been mentioned in the FBI testimony at an earlier trial.
I mostly point this out because I think there could be a golden opportunity to grab one or two of these guys if they go undrafted and put them on 2 ways. The trick will be identifying the ones that have the tools to actually develop into an NBA player.....and the ones that were not successful in college simply because they were not talented enough. For example, a guy like Quentin Grimes was all over preseason mock drafts....often a fringe lottery selection, then he fell off after not having success at Kansas as a Freshman. The kid is still 18 years old.
I think by the end of this week, Twitter will start exploding with Combine invitations. Based on previous years, the invitations to about 60ish players will be sent this week, and received later this week and early next week. The NBA Combine begins May 15th.
Seeing a somewhat sad trend of underclassmen not only declaring, but making it clear they will remain in the draft.....and many of those guys clearly do not appear ready. I think much of it is being driven by the FBI scandal and the expected followup from the NCAA. There has been speculation that the reason so many of LSU's underclassmen are declaring even though they are not even appearing in mock drafts is to avoid having to cooperate with the NCAA investigation. Guys like Quentin Grimes of Kansas declaring and making it clear he will not return to school simply does not make sense on the surface after a terrible Freshman season, but again his name has been mentioned in the FBI testimony at an earlier trial.
I mostly point this out because I think there could be a golden opportunity to grab one or two of these guys if they go undrafted and put them on 2 ways. The trick will be identifying the ones that have the tools to actually develop into an NBA player.....and the ones that were not successful in college simply because they were not talented enough. For example, a guy like Quentin Grimes was all over preseason mock drafts....often a fringe lottery selection, then he fell off after not having success at Kansas as a Freshman. The kid is still 18 years old.
Are you expecting teams to draft the more established but lower ceiling prospects in the second round and leave the less established but higher ceiling prospects floating around undrafted?
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:25 pm Post subject:
Bard207 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
I think by the end of this week, Twitter will start exploding with Combine invitations. Based on previous years, the invitations to about 60ish players will be sent this week, and received later this week and early next week. The NBA Combine begins May 15th.
Seeing a somewhat sad trend of underclassmen not only declaring, but making it clear they will remain in the draft.....and many of those guys clearly do not appear ready. I think much of it is being driven by the FBI scandal and the expected followup from the NCAA. There has been speculation that the reason so many of LSU's underclassmen are declaring even though they are not even appearing in mock drafts is to avoid having to cooperate with the NCAA investigation. Guys like Quentin Grimes of Kansas declaring and making it clear he will not return to school simply does not make sense on the surface after a terrible Freshman season, but again his name has been mentioned in the FBI testimony at an earlier trial.
I mostly point this out because I think there could be a golden opportunity to grab one or two of these guys if they go undrafted and put them on 2 ways. The trick will be identifying the ones that have the tools to actually develop into an NBA player.....and the ones that were not successful in college simply because they were not talented enough. For example, a guy like Quentin Grimes was all over preseason mock drafts....often a fringe lottery selection, then he fell off after not having success at Kansas as a Freshman. The kid is still 18 years old.
Are you expecting teams to draft the more established but lower ceiling prospects in the second round and leave the less established but higher ceiling prospects floating around undrafted?
I really do not know. This draft is confusing me, or the current projections/mocks. For example, I am seeing one of my favorite WVU players Sagaba Konate appear in mocks again....even climbing in some. This is a guy that got an evaluation from the committee a year ago of mid 2nd Round to undrafted.....played 8 games this season, and has not played since December because of a lingering knee injury, and is a 6'7"ish guy that can only play the 5. None of that makes sense to me. I brought up Grimes because I do not see him showing up in any mocks, but I do think he may have fringe lottery level talent upside.....already has a NBA body, and is 18 years old. If he truly goes undrafted, he is the idea type of guy I think the 2 way contracts were made for.....just not high on 23 and 24 year olds on 2 way deals going forward.
If I had to guess, I think teams will still value upside more than anything, especially early in the 1st Round. It just comes down to the pay scale. It is a better bet to take a swing on the upside because you are going to be paying the player a decent sum of money. If they are a bust, you can cut bait after two years. It is just not as appealing in my opinion to take a player that is 9th or 10th in the rotation in year 2 and are probably worth picking up their extension, but there is not much value there.
I think by the end of this week, Twitter will start exploding with Combine invitations. Based on previous years, the invitations to about 60ish players will be sent this week, and received later this week and early next week. The NBA Combine begins May 15th.
Seeing a somewhat sad trend of underclassmen not only declaring, but making it clear they will remain in the draft.....and many of those guys clearly do not appear ready. I think much of it is being driven by the FBI scandal and the expected followup from the NCAA. There has been speculation that the reason so many of LSU's underclassmen are declaring even though they are not even appearing in mock drafts is to avoid having to cooperate with the NCAA investigation. Guys like Quentin Grimes of Kansas declaring and making it clear he will not return to school simply does not make sense on the surface after a terrible Freshman season, but again his name has been mentioned in the FBI testimony at an earlier trial.
I mostly point this out because I think there could be a golden opportunity to grab one or two of these guys if they go undrafted and put them on 2 ways. The trick will be identifying the ones that have the tools to actually develop into an NBA player.....and the ones that were not successful in college simply because they were not talented enough. For example, a guy like Quentin Grimes was all over preseason mock drafts....often a fringe lottery selection, then he fell off after not having success at Kansas as a Freshman. The kid is still 18 years old.
Are you expecting teams to draft the more established but lower ceiling prospects in the second round and leave the less established but higher ceiling prospects floating around undrafted?
I really do not know. This draft is confusing me, or the current projections/mocks. For example, I am seeing one of my favorite WVU players Sagaba Konate appear in mocks again....even climbing in some. This is a guy that got an evaluation from the committee a year ago of mid 2nd Round to undrafted.....played 8 games this season, and has not played since December because of a lingering knee injury, and is a 6'7"ish guy that can only play the 5. None of that makes sense to me. I brought up Grimes because I do not see him showing up in any mocks, but I do think he may have fringe lottery level talent upside.....already has a NBA body, and is 18 years old. If he truly goes undrafted, he is the idea type of guy I think the 2 way contracts were made for.....just not high on 23 and 24 year olds on 2 way deals going forward.
If I had to guess, I think teams will still value upside more than anything, especially early in the 1st Round. It just comes down to the pay scale. It is a better bet to take a swing on the upside because you are going to be paying the player a decent sum of money. If they are a bust, you can cut bait after two years. It is just not as appealing in my opinion to take a player that is 9th or 10th in the rotation in year 2 and are probably worth picking up their extension, but there is not much value there.
Do you have any other candidates for that strategy besides Grimes?
If picks #50 - #60 are selling for reasonable prices, buy one to make sure of gaining control of Grimes (or similar) or just wait it out and expect to be able to get the player(s) wanted as undrafted free agents?
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:28 pm Post subject:
Bard207 wrote:
Do you have any other candidates for that strategy besides Grimes?
If picks #50 - #60 are selling for reasonable prices, buy one to make sure of gaining control of Grimes (or similar) or just wait it out and expect to be able to get the player(s) wanted as undrafted free agents?
I am not seeing Javonte Smart, the LSU Freshman appearing in mocks, and he has made it clear he is not returning to LSU. I will need to see the final list of who stays after the combine, but some guys that I think are really talented, have declared, and are not getting mocked...Andrew Nehmbard (Florida), Reggie Perry (Miss. State), EJ Montgomery (Kentucky)....but they have not declared the will for sure remain in draft.
Do you have any other candidates for that strategy besides Grimes?
If picks #50 - #60 are selling for reasonable prices, buy one to make sure of gaining control of Grimes (or similar) or just wait it out and expect to be able to get the player(s) wanted as undrafted free agents?
I am not seeing Javonte Smart, the LSU Freshman appearing in mocks, and he has made it clear he is not returning to LSU. I will need to see the final list of who stays after the combine, but some guys that I think are really talented, have declared, and are not getting mocked...Andrew Nehmbard (Florida), Reggie Perry (Miss. State), EJ Montgomery (Kentucky)....but they have not declared the will for sure remain in draft.
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:44 pm Post subject:
PlantedTanks wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Do you have any other candidates for that strategy besides Grimes?
If picks #50 - #60 are selling for reasonable prices, buy one to make sure of gaining control of Grimes (or similar) or just wait it out and expect to be able to get the player(s) wanted as undrafted free agents?
I am not seeing Javonte Smart, the LSU Freshman appearing in mocks, and he has made it clear he is not returning to LSU. I will need to see the final list of who stays after the combine, but some guys that I think are really talented, have declared, and are not getting mocked...Andrew Nehmbard (Florida), Reggie Perry (Miss. State), EJ Montgomery (Kentucky)....but they have not declared the will for sure remain in draft.
For an international - Dino Radoncic.
Moses Brown....the 7'1" Freshman UCLA Center declared and claims he will remain in draft....he was not good this year, so not sure if someone will draft him.
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