Official General 2019 NBA Draft Talk Thread (Lakers Get 46th Pick/Talen Horton-Tucker, Sign Cacok, Norvell, Caroline)
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manlisten
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject:

Norvell kinda sounds like another Anthony Brown.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:35 am    Post subject:

lakersfan32 wrote:
Laker_Jocker wrote:
https://www.thestepien.com/2019/06/17/ricky-scriccas-final-big-board/

Norvell - "He is one of this draft’s worst athletes regardless of position, alongside Kansas’s Dedric Lawson. Norvell at least checks some boxes as a wing with some size who can reliably hit his threes and isn’t terribly flaggy in most other areas."

Not a ringing endorsement for a 2-way contract...


the next anthony brown?


Eh, yup?
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:44 am    Post subject:

manlisten wrote:
Norvell kinda sounds like another Anthony Brown.


Except we didn't have to use a high 2nd round pick to get him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:52 am    Post subject:

To my non-expert eye:

THT = Bonzi Wells (without the nanny, lol)
Cacok = Jimmy Butler (same hair, lol)
Caroline = Paul Milsap (slower and less talented, lol)
Norvell = Anthony Brown (less athletic if that is possible)
Holman = Brian Cook (with some hops - some is better than none)

Not horrible, but nothing to get to crazy about - especially for having no picks...
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:55 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
A few brief, early post-draft thoughts:

Losers:

Wizards - traded for Bobby Portis who they'll no doubt feel compelled to re-sign then drafted chunky Bobby Portis in Rui Hachimura and then traded for Admiral Schofield (or Semi Ojeleye without defense) so they can go three deep on backup blackhole PFs who don't defend or pass.

Suns - one of the worst drafts I can think of in recent years and I don't dislike Saric, Johnson, or Jerome in a vacuum. But the Suns hemorrhaged draft assets to move a productive Warren and draft two athletically limited older prospects - both guys are older than Devin Booker - on guaranteed deals and earned the right to overpay Saric next summer.

Atlanta - the Hawks draft night wasn't disastrous, but they overpaid for and overdrafted two limited upside forwards in the top 10. The trade for Fernando may have been their best move of the night, but was also unnecessarily rich when they could've been patient and taken a better center at #8/10/17.

Spurs - Samanic and Johnson are fine, but underwhelming rotation caliber players to add to a mediocrity treadmill team that should've traded Kawhi to the Lakers and started to rebuild a year ago.

Winners:

Pelicans - clear top winners if they had drafted no one but Zion, but leveraging the Hawks overpay for Hayes and NAW was the well-executed flaming citrus to accent David Griffin's whiskey (bleep). Given how the draft shook out I had other players higher than NAW, but before the draft getting NAW at #17 would've been fine value on my board.

Grizzlies - I have deep concerns about Morant's shooting upside, but he's a young guy you can build your offense around while hoping for his shot to come. Getting Brandon Clarke at #21 was a master stroke both for pick value and fit - Memphis has two potential future DPOY candidates to protect Morant for the next 7-10 years.

Timberwolves - Saric on an expiring deal was worth sacrificing to move up for Culver who has the potential to bring a much-needed all-around game to a Minnesota team burdened by Wiggins' overpaid stagnation.

Pacers - added a productive bench scorer in Warren and three future 2nd round picks for cap space then drafted Bitadze - a top-10 talent and #2 center in this draft - at #18 allowing them to move on from Myles Turner while re-signing Sabonis. A quietly good night for Indiana.

Nuggets - they drafted my #2 upside pick at #44 for the cost of a future 2nd. Bol won't be able to ever start next to Jokic, but he's an incredible value play on a team that seems willing to draft smart risks with injury histories and let them develop. Bol is a big boom-bust player who the NBA (incorrectly) saw as having little boom to a lot of bust, but who I think will pay huge dividends for the Nuggets in time.

Lakers - for the cost of a future 2nd and cash they drafted my #15 prospect in THT at #46. Where they could've easily gone conservative, the front office instead took a big swing on one of the few young players in this draft with both two-way potential and initiatior upside.

Drafts I like but that are TBD:

Hornets - nothing sexy, but PJ Washington, Cody Martin, and Jalen McDaniels should all be productive NBA rotation players. I would've liked to see Kupchak take a bigger swing on upside talent, though.

Sixers - another low upside duo, but Thybulle and Shayock can both be rotation players for them next season.

Boston - big losers in the grand scheme of life, the Celtics managed to salvage two future productive winning players in Williams and Edwards who will probably be traded for Andrew Wiggins. Langford's a passable gamble, but there were better high upside picks on the board.

Cavs - I lean towards them being losers, but the chutzpah to take Garland intrigues me and KPJ is value at #30 even if he's a terrible fit on their current roster.


Good stuff!


Cheers!

Other small moves I like and dislike:

Likes:

Pistons - I like the Sirvydis draft & stash, though Detroit is really tripling down on crafty, short-limbed white guy shooters.

Magic - one of these days John Hammond may try to address his team's backcourt via the draft, but it is not this day. I respect taking Okeke this high even though Orlando is tripling down on the same position.

Jazz - Utah didn't have much draft capital after the Conley trade, but Wright-Foreman and Oni in the late 2nd are two useful experienced small school guys who could develop into productive rotation players in their system.

Knicks - in addition to Barrett who made fine sense where they were drafting, I liked their move to grab Iggy who I think will surpass Kevin Knox pretty quickly as an impact player (not saying much, of course). Also a guy who should be a New York fan love/hate favorite.

Warriors - they were targeting Smailagic in the 2nd round the whole way after seeing him up close in the G-League, and rightfully so. He has 1st round upside. I like Paschall where he was drafted, as well, though I think he'll get the unfair "zOMG!! Warriors genis!!!" hype during Summer League that Smailagic deserves instead.

Dislikes:

Nets - I like the Claxton pick in a vacuum, but I don't think he was BPA at that spot nor is he an optimal fit unless the Nets are planning to move Allen. Now watch Claxton turn into a poor man's AD in their development system.

The move back into the draft to grab Jaylen Hands is inexplicable to me.

Bulls - an overall boring draft, but while the Coby White selection at #7 made sense, going conservative drafting Gafford is something bad teams should avoid. It's probably better for Bol² and THT to avoid Chicago under current management, but the Bulls really should've swung for the fences with one of those two guys (THT is a Chicago kid, too!)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:58 am    Post subject:

BVH, the Stepien and even 538 love THT. What happened? Why did so many teams pass on him? He seems like someone I would have bought a late 1st to get.
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lakersfan32
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:00 am    Post subject:

rockets snatched up shamorie ponds, damn
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:16 am    Post subject:

lakersfan32 wrote:
rockets snatched up shamorie ponds, damn


But will Mike let him play?
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crazylakerfan001
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:26 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
BVH, the Stepien and even 538 love THT. What happened? Why did so many teams pass on him? He seems like someone I would have bought a late 1st to get.


Probably the same reasons why Draymond fell.

"He's too short to play the 3 or 4"

"What position would he guard?"

"Is he a guard or a forward?"
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:27 am    Post subject:

So Porter went underrated and as of 6/21/19 11:30 PST has not been invited to any teams training camp.

Is the lack of news on his brothers rehab with the Nuggets a bad sign?
I think rehabbing this guy on the Lakers dime at least is worth the investment, Unless Jontay has just straight up quit bball, or his brother is trying to get him in to the Nuggets system as an UDFA.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:32 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
BVH, the Stepien and even 538 love THT. What happened? Why did so many teams pass on him? He seems like someone I would have bought a late 1st to get.

Some guesses:

1) Weird draft - with so many idiosyncratic, "beauty in the eye of the beholder" prospects, it was easy for some guys to slip through the cracks.

2) Weird body and unrefined offensive game - most draftniks are conditioned to look for young outliers, but I can see NBA teams not recognizing the upside THT's unique physical dimensions and burgeoning skills represent, while later in the draft they get conservative and seek out more refined, older players who can make more immediate impact. Also, make no mistake, outside of passing and finishing at the rim, THT wasn't particularly good offensively as a freshman - he has a ways to go to put it all together on that end.

3) He pleaded guilty to misdemeanor theft one month before the draft. Through confirmation bias that could snowball into negative opinions about his attitude during pre-draft interviews, especially for such a young kid who might not be as polished in trying to explain his actions to older front office dudes. And he may have legitimately had some attitude flags while at ISU we're unaware of.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:42 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
3.14 Talen Horton-Tucker- I think my main reservation with THT is the worry he gets taken by a team late first or early second round and doesn’t get a ton of leeway for mistakes and growth. As a prospect though I really like THT quite a bit. He showed awesome flashes of so many skills throughout the year, both offensively and defensively. His finishing at the rim is among the best in the class to go along with a good, functional handle. His strength and wingspan allow him to play bigger than his size and once he turns some fat into muscle, he has real room for athletic growth. If he can continue to improve his shooting and decision-making, Horton-Tucker has upside to be a top 5 player in the class.


https://www.thestepien.com/2019/06/20/ross-homans-final-2019-big-board/

Quote:
One of the more raw prospects at this stage of the draft, Horton-Tucker is one of this classes best at-rim finishers, leveraging his coordination, strong upper body, and roughly +9 wingspan effectively around the basket. He showed some flashes of defensive versatility as well, particularly when he had the opportunity to use his upper body and length to absorb contact and contest shots rather than defend in space with his slow feet, but largely had an up-and-down season on both ends of the floor. He would be in the tier above this one were rookie contracts a year or two longer. It’s difficult to bet on high end upside with guys who don’t have a distinct marketable skill to get on the court to develop within their first two years.


https://www.thestepien.com/2019/06/17/ricky-scriccas-final-big-board/


I think it's interesting that on both of these guy's big boards, they ranked THT higher than the player who was picked at #4 overall (Deandre Hunter).

Homan:
THT Tier 3 Overall 14
Hunter Tier 3 Overall 15

Scricca:
THT Tier 4 Overall 16
Hunter Tier 4 Overall 18
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:46 am    Post subject:

eddiejonze wrote:
So Porter went underrated and as of 6/21/19 11:30 PST has not been invited to any teams training camp.

Is the lack of news on his brothers rehab with the Nuggets a bad sign?
I think rehabbing this guy on the Lakers dime at least is worth the investment, Unless Jontay has just straight up quit bball, or his brother is trying to get him in to the Nuggets system as an UDFA.


If I'm his brother, wouldn't want to go there. You have Jokic. They have Bol as a project. Where does he get his playing time and money?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:47 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BVH, the Stepien and even 538 love THT. What happened? Why did so many teams pass on him? He seems like someone I would have bought a late 1st to get.

Some guesses:

1) Weird draft - with so many idiosyncratic, "beauty in the eye of the beholder" prospects, it was easy for some guys to slip through the cracks.

2) Weird body and unrefined offensive game - most draftniks are conditioned to look for young outliers, but I can see NBA teams not recognizing the upside THT's unique physical dimensions and burgeoning skills represent, while later in the draft they get conservative and seek out more refined, older players who can make more immediate impact. Also, make no mistake, outside of passing and finishing at the rim, THT wasn't particularly good offensively as a freshman - he has a ways to go to put it all together on that end.

3) He pleaded guilty to misdemeanor theft one month before the draft. Through confirmation bias that could snowball into negative opinions about his attitude during pre-draft interviews, especially for such a young kid who might not be as polished in trying to explain his actions to older front office dudes. And he may have legitimately had some attitude flags while at ISU we're unaware of.


Did not know about 3rd point. Glad we got him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:58 am    Post subject:

i hope he’s not the next robert upshaw after reading point #3.

yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BVH, the Stepien and even 538 love THT. What happened? Why did so many teams pass on him? He seems like someone I would have bought a late 1st to get.

Some guesses:

1) Weird draft - with so many idiosyncratic, "beauty in the eye of the beholder" prospects, it was easy for some guys to slip through the cracks.

2) Weird body and unrefined offensive game - most draftniks are conditioned to look for young outliers, but I can see NBA teams not recognizing the upside THT's unique physical dimensions and burgeoning skills represent, while later in the draft they get conservative and seek out more refined, older players who can make more immediate impact. Also, make no mistake, outside of passing and finishing at the rim, THT wasn't particularly good offensively as a freshman - he has a ways to go to put it all together on that end.

3) He pleaded guilty to misdemeanor theft one month before the draft. Through confirmation bias that could snowball into negative opinions about his attitude during pre-draft interviews, especially for such a young kid who might not be as polished in trying to explain his actions to older front office dudes. And he may have legitimately had some attitude flags while at ISU we're unaware of.


Did not know about 3rd point. Glad we got him.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:06 am    Post subject:

deal wrote:
PartyMan wrote:
We want Tacko!



I'd give him an invite


Typically I'd stay away, but Vogel did turn Roy Hibbert into a two-time All-Star (2012, 2014).
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:07 am    Post subject:

kentu_tiro wrote:
i hope he’s not the next robert upshaw after reading point #3.

yinoma2001 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BVH, the Stepien and even 538 love THT. What happened? Why did so many teams pass on him? He seems like someone I would have bought a late 1st to get.

Some guesses:

1) Weird draft - with so many idiosyncratic, "beauty in the eye of the beholder" prospects, it was easy for some guys to slip through the cracks.

2) Weird body and unrefined offensive game - most draftniks are conditioned to look for young outliers, but I can see NBA teams not recognizing the upside THT's unique physical dimensions and burgeoning skills represent, while later in the draft they get conservative and seek out more refined, older players who can make more immediate impact. Also, make no mistake, outside of passing and finishing at the rim, THT wasn't particularly good offensively as a freshman - he has a ways to go to put it all together on that end.

3) He pleaded guilty to misdemeanor theft one month before the draft. Through confirmation bias that could snowball into negative opinions about his attitude during pre-draft interviews, especially for such a young kid who might not be as polished in trying to explain his actions to older front office dudes. And he may have legitimately had some attitude flags while at ISU we're unaware of.


Did not know about 3rd point. Glad we got him.


Upshaw had many more problems and substance abuse issues too.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:14 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
BVH, the Stepien and even 538 love THT. What happened? Why did so many teams pass on him? He seems like someone I would have bought a late 1st to get.


If there is nothing that we are not aware of, it was a solid upside value play. He was mocked in most recent mock drafts as a early 2nd Round guy, but he slid hard for some reason. It appears Klutch had the Lakers jump in and save him from falling even farther since we never worked him out or even spoke to him. I am hoping it is just an error on the other 29 teams part.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:20 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BVH, the Stepien and even 538 love THT. What happened? Why did so many teams pass on him? He seems like someone I would have bought a late 1st to get.


If there is nothing that we are not aware of, it was a solid upside value play. He was mocked in most recent mock drafts as a early 2nd Round guy, but he slid hard for some reason. It appears Klutch had the Lakers jump in and save him from falling even farther since we never worked him out or even spoke to him. I am hoping it is just an error on the other 29 teams part.


Rob was spotted at the Klutch pro day. LeBron was there to.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:22 pm    Post subject:

LBJ23 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BVH, the Stepien and even 538 love THT. What happened? Why did so many teams pass on him? He seems like someone I would have bought a late 1st to get.


If there is nothing that we are not aware of, it was a solid upside value play. He was mocked in most recent mock drafts as a early 2nd Round guy, but he slid hard for some reason. It appears Klutch had the Lakers jump in and save him from falling even farther since we never worked him out or even spoke to him. I am hoping it is just an error on the other 29 teams part.


Rob was spotted at the Klutch pro day. LeBron was there to.


I am sure every team had people there.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:29 pm    Post subject:

justsomelakerfan wrote:
Hey guy I’m excited about THT after looking into him for like 5 mins - what about those shooting #s though? Can someone give a little insight on his role that past year and path for improvement?


He was an average shooting on c&s and has a nice looking stroke.. so I’m optimistic
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:51 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Tacko Fall, a 7-foot-6 center from UCF, will sign an Exhibit 10 contract with the Boston Celtics, a source told ESPN's Jonathan Givony.

Exhibit 10 contracts, introduced in the NBA's most recent collective bargaining agreement, are one-year deals paying the minimum salary. They also can be used for two-way contracts.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:24 pm    Post subject:

THT and Norvell jr. out of a draft where we had zero picks is a freaking home run.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:28 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
THT and Norvell jr. out of a draft where we had zero picks is a freaking home run.


I agree....but still think a grand slam was possible with the UDFA market...there were a couple guys they would have had an honest shot at the roster.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:28 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
THT and Norvell jr. out of a draft where we had zero picks is a freaking home run.


Thank You Jerry West.
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