2020 Toyota Supra
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:07 am    Post subject:

999 wrote:
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As of now, I'm not impressed.


Is it because of the BMW roots in it or the overall styling?


Both. The difference is just the suspension tuning and some possible throttle mapping.

May as well just get the Z4, because the Supra isn't exactly a rebodied Z4 from Zagato or another design house. All of the design elements that gave the Supra concept real presence and similarity to the previous gen, are practically gone.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:08 am    Post subject:

22 wrote:
GTR sales are poor because they haven’t really changed the looks since it came out. It’s old.

Cars like this aren’t for profit, they’re flagship models to keep customers interested in the brand. They will likely not sell enough of this gen Supra to turn a profit. So might as well make it a supercar instead of a sports car imo.


GTR sales are poor because 1st gens used to be 60k and now they're 100k.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:09 am    Post subject:

999 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
There probably would be no Supra revival if they didn't partner with BMW and release this shared platform car. The sales numbers would not make sense for them considering these types of cars are halo cars and not really something that makes the manufacturer money if any.


hmm i think Toyota will definitely make money off this thing. it is capturing buyers from the euro bmw market as well as the American market. its capturing those who don't want a corvette or a jag but cant afford a cayman or 911.


That's the problem isn't it? The Supra IV Turbo already captured buyers from the BMW/Porsche market during that time...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:33 am    Post subject:

More I read, the less I like.
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999
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:26 am    Post subject:

I wonder if Toyota will drop the upcoming S58 motor in this thing?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:33 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
999 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
There probably would be no Supra revival if they didn't partner with BMW and release this shared platform car. The sales numbers would not make sense for them considering these types of cars are halo cars and not really something that makes the manufacturer money if any.


hmm i think Toyota will definitely make money off this thing. it is capturing buyers from the euro bmw market as well as the American market. its capturing those who don't want a corvette or a jag but cant afford a cayman or 911.


That's the problem isn't it? The Supra IV Turbo already captured buyers from the BMW/Porsche market during that time...


True but the are making it affordable. Cayman are like 70G and 911 are 100 grand. The jag F type base are about 65g while the V8 goes for 120.

Let’s pretend if you had to choose between the 370z, f type base, cayman, Miata coupe, z coupe and the Supra. Which one would you get? I would get the Supra.


However if it were between the Vette and the Supra I would choose the vette all day
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999
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:36 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
999 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
As of now, I'm not impressed.


Is it because of the BMW roots in it or the overall styling?


Both. The difference is just the suspension tuning and some possible throttle mapping.

May as well just get the Z4, because the Supra isn't exactly a rebodied Z4 from Zagato or another design house. All of the design elements that gave the Supra concept real presence and similarity to the previous gen, are practically gone.


They totally screwed up the interior. If they made that Interior somewhat reminiscent of the MK4 people would love this car. Instead it looks like a 3 series threw up in it
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:41 am    Post subject:

999 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
999 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
As of now, I'm not impressed.


Is it because of the BMW roots in it or the overall styling?


Both. The difference is just the suspension tuning and some possible throttle mapping.

May as well just get the Z4, because the Supra isn't exactly a rebodied Z4 from Zagato or another design house. All of the design elements that gave the Supra concept real presence and similarity to the previous gen, are practically gone.


They totally screwed up the interior. If they made that Interior somewhat reminiscent of the MK4 people would love this car. Instead it looks like a 3 series threw up in it


Thats because its a rebodied BMW Z4. Even the interior looks similar. I look at the roofline and I see the same lines.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:21 pm    Post subject:

If anybody is on the fence about the new Supra now c'mon over to the darkside boys and look at the 2020 GT500
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:02 pm    Post subject:

999 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
999 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
There probably would be no Supra revival if they didn't partner with BMW and release this shared platform car. The sales numbers would not make sense for them considering these types of cars are halo cars and not really something that makes the manufacturer money if any.


hmm i think Toyota will definitely make money off this thing. it is capturing buyers from the euro bmw market as well as the American market. its capturing those who don't want a corvette or a jag but cant afford a cayman or 911.


That's the problem isn't it? The Supra IV Turbo already captured buyers from the BMW/Porsche market during that time...


True but the are making it affordable. Cayman are like 70G and 911 are 100 grand. The jag F type base are about 65g while the V8 goes for 120.

Let’s pretend if you had to choose between the 370z, f type base, cayman, Miata coupe, z coupe and the Supra. Which one would you get? I would get the Supra.


However if it were between the Vette and the Supra I would choose the vette all day


I'm not as picky with new vs. used, though I understand that people are.

But I have no problem getting a lower mileage 5 year old Cayman over the current Supra. That's the thing.

They even made them manual, naturally aspirated, with the suspension tuning that I already like. I prefer my engines behind me, so this made the decision especially easy.

Having driven all of those cars except the current Supra and Z4:

Cayman, Miata RF, Z4, Supra, Jaguar, -------------- 370z.

If it's Supra vs. Vette, it's the Supra. I've read enough track problems with the Corvette, and I know who the better suspension tuner is, regardless of what hypothetical lateral-g numbers say.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:38 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
999 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
999 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
There probably would be no Supra revival if they didn't partner with BMW and release this shared platform car. The sales numbers would not make sense for them considering these types of cars are halo cars and not really something that makes the manufacturer money if any.


hmm i think Toyota will definitely make money off this thing. it is capturing buyers from the euro bmw market as well as the American market. its capturing those who don't want a corvette or a jag but cant afford a cayman or 911.


That's the problem isn't it? The Supra IV Turbo already captured buyers from the BMW/Porsche market during that time...


True but the are making it affordable. Cayman are like 70G and 911 are 100 grand. The jag F type base are about 65g while the V8 goes for 120.

Let’s pretend if you had to choose between the 370z, f type base, cayman, Miata coupe, z coupe and the Supra. Which one would you get? I would get the Supra.


However if it were between the Vette and the Supra I would choose the vette all day


If it's Supra vs. Vette, it's the Supra. I've read enough track problems with the Corvette, and I know who the better suspension tuner is, regardless of what hypothetical lateral-g numbers say.


Well that’s the thing most Americans drive and race in a straight line. You are looking at more weight distribution and handling aspects of a vehicle which is why the Supra with a bmw suspension would make sense for you.

But in reality when people buy the Supra they are going to mod it, fcuk it up, and drive in a straight line
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:13 am    Post subject:

The suspension system and wider tires is probably the most noticeable improvement over the Gen IV Supra. Other than that the 2JZ potential beats the B58 in potential and also the number of mods. The styling is negative compared to the Gen IV Supra and the fact that its made in a Magna Steyer factory along with other BMW's says that theres very little Toyota other than the badges and styling. Don't forget counting for inflation the Gen IV Supra Turbo was closer to 70k versus the 50k for this Gen V Supra. This was due to the no holds barred engineering during the peak of the Japanese economy in the early to mid 90's, which is why you had so many amazing cars from that era.
Supra IV>Supra V
Original NSX>New NSX
300zx>350z, 370z
RX-7>RX-8

I think the fact that they didn't even bother to modify the Z4 chassis as a base and stretch it shows how little effort they put into it....if this new Supra fails to sell they can always use the same parts in the BMW Z4 production line.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:03 pm    Post subject:

I was excited. Unfortunately after reading initial reports and reviews it seems to be a disappointment. For the money, I'd still go for a used Cayman S at that price point.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:51 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Well that’s the thing most Americans drive and race in a straight line. You are looking at more weight distribution and handling aspects of a vehicle which is why the Supra with a bmw suspension would make sense for you.


Actually, the Corvette puts up better lateral G numbers and cornering speeds. It just does so in a less sophisticated way, especially in terms of giving feedback to the driver, which is why I prefer Porsche.

But this isn't about drag racing or any kind of racing. It's what you prefer as a potential buyer. For what I think the Supra is specifically aimed at, it misses the mark. The Z4 covered that market, and the Supra is basically a hardtop version with a different tune.

$50k gets me a lightly used Cayman S. More horsepower. Less Torque. 300lbs-500lbs. less weight.

$50k gets me a lightly used Lexus GS-F with a 471HP and wider front tires than the LC500.

Worse yet, I think the BMW M2 hits the goals of the new Supra, and the Supra is just a small tier of performance down, in a reshaped body.

The worst part is, Toyota's best car isn't even stateside, and it's the Toyota Century.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:01 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
Well that’s the thing most Americans drive and race in a straight line. You are looking at more weight distribution and handling aspects of a vehicle which is why the Supra with a bmw suspension would make sense for you.


Actually, the Corvette puts up better lateral G numbers and cornering speeds. It just does so in a less sophisticated way, especially in terms of giving feedback to the driver, which is why I prefer Porsche.

But this isn't about drag racing or any kind of racing. It's what you prefer as a potential buyer. For what I think the Supra is specifically aimed at, it misses the mark. The Z4 covered that market, and the Supra is basically a hardtop version with a different tune.

$50k gets me a lightly used Cayman S. More horsepower. Less Torque. 300lbs-500lbs. less weight.

$50k gets me a lightly used Lexus GS-F with a 471HP and wider front tires than the LC500.

Worse yet, I think the BMW M2 hits the goals of the new Supra, and the Supra is just a small tier of performance down, in a reshaped body.

The worst part is, Toyota's best car isn't even stateside, and it's the Toyota Century.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:20 pm    Post subject:

I'll pass...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:10 am    Post subject:

Here are the facts on the development of this car. Very good video

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_jbyzmtgU_0
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:27 pm    Post subject:

999 wrote:
Here are the facts on the development of this car. Very good video

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_jbyzmtgU_0


The best part is knowing Magna Steyr helps build it and combining the goals of both manufacturers in the build and the revised engineering tests by Toyota with the motor, though I still have some slight skepticism considering some issues with the FA20 block in the FRS/BRZ/GT86.

I dunno man. The Supra would have sold me on the styling first, just as it did on the Supra IV, but right off the bat, they refrained from the golden ratio and compromised it slightly to make something work with convertibles/hard tops alike.

This isn't a carbon fiber tub where little to no redesign is required for having a convertible/removable top. Add to that, the take away of the low/flat/wide stance from the 2014 concept, and I'm still a Porsche guy for the money.

At least with the FRS/BRZ/GR86, I can understand the styling cues away from the concept, because it's built to a price point.

This has the same vibe, from the collaboration, to the compromise in chassis design, to the use of BMW parts (even if it's tuned by Toyota) for the suspension and engine.

When the Supra IV came out, I thought of it as a grand tourer considering the weight. I could forgive the weight because the entire car was bespoke. At least back then, the Mr2 was the dedicate hardcore sports car, much in the way of what the GT86 is supposed to be, but left underpowered. The Supra tries to implement more sport into it. It didn't work with the 370z (when I love the 370z vs the 350z), but at least that was a $32-$40k car, not a $50k.

The formula doesn't have to be so complicated.

N/A
Manual
RWD
Engine placement optional

I only get 2 of those. Modern 6 cyls have the horsepower output of yesterdecades turbo engines.

I'd rather wait until LC500s drop to $50k.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:57 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
999 wrote:
Here are the facts on the development of this car. Very good video

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_jbyzmtgU_0


The best part is knowing Magna Steyr helps build it and combining the goals of both manufacturers in the build and the revised engineering tests by Toyota with the motor, though I still have some slight skepticism considering some issues with the FA20 block in the FRS/BRZ/GT86.

I dunno man. The Supra would have sold me on the styling first, just as it did on the Supra IV, but right off the bat, they refrained from the golden ratio and compromised it slightly to make something work with convertibles/hard tops alike.

This isn't a carbon fiber tub where little to no redesign is required for having a convertible/removable top. Add to that, the take away of the low/flat/wide stance from the 2014 concept, and I'm still a Porsche guy for the money.

At least with the FRS/BRZ/GR86, I can understand the styling cues away from the concept, because it's built to a price point.

This has the same vibe, from the collaboration, to the compromise in chassis design, to the use of BMW parts (even if it's tuned by Toyota) for the suspension and engine.

When the Supra IV came out, I thought of it as a grand tourer considering the weight. I could forgive the weight because the entire car was bespoke. At least back then, the Mr2 was the dedicate hardcore sports car, much in the way of what the GT86 is supposed to be, but left underpowered. The Supra tries to implement more sport into it. It didn't work with the 370z (when I love the 370z vs the 350z), but at least that was a $32-$40k car, not a $50k.

The formula doesn't have to be so complicated.

N/A
Manual
RWD
Engine placement optional

I only get 2 of those. Modern 6 cyls have the horsepower output of yesterdecades turbo engines.

I'd rather wait until LC500s drop to $50k.


You think like me. I have ZERO problems buying a gently used late model vehicle. Two more years for a 2018 maybe?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:58 pm    Post subject:

^Yep. GSF dropped to 50k ish in 3 years.

That car is a steal, right now.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^Yep. GSF dropped to 50k ish in 3 years.

That car is a steal, right now.


Yeah, I've been eyeballing a used M2 or RCF in a year.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:23 pm    Post subject:

Car looks good, commercial so so
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:57 pm    Post subject:

1998 MK4:

320 hp
313 Ft-Lb Torque
0-60 = 4.6 secs

2020 MK5

335 hp
365 Ft Lb Torque
0-60 = 4.1 secs



1998 Ferrari F355
380 hp
268 Ft Lb Torque
0 - 60 = 4.6 seconds


What made the 2JZ so good is it delivered supercar-esque performance in a reasonably priced good looking ride.When you compare a 1998 Corvette, Mustang, Camaro, to todays variants of each, today you have far superior vehicles on the road. But with the Supra, it's basically the same car from 20 years ago. A BRZ with a body kit.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:23 am    Post subject:

Gotta look at when the torque is delivered and the relative fuel efficiency.

The BMW motor is ahead there.

The 2jz is legend not just for it's performance, but reliability, especially with power upgrades, but people don't think of the turbo last e or the unnecessary complexity of a twin turbo setup.

If Toyotas adjustments to that BMW engine have similar effect, it may be legendary too.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:22 pm    Post subject:

I think for heritage reasons with the MK4 it would have made more sense to put the N54 engine in this car rather than a B58 twin scroll. That's just me.
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