Ohio State puts Urban Meyer on administrative leave
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Courtney Smith had already gone to the police. In fact, she did it twice, in 2009 and 2015. The police brought no charges. Courtney Smith filed for divorce and had an attorney. This year, Courtney Smith got the police to bring criminal trespass charges against Zach Smith, as well as a restraining order. I see people trying to fit this case into the "helpless victim whose pleas were ignored" template. That's a square peg and a round hole. Courtney Smith didn't need Urban Meyer to protect her.

Meyer got disciplined because he did not inform OSU compliance of the pending criminal investigation in 2015. The police brought no charges, but in theory OSU could have conducted its own investigation. Personally, I think that there is a significant BS factor with this -- What was OSU going to do when the police found insufficient evidence to bring charges? Later, Meyer might have known what Courtney was telling his wife, but his wife said she never talked to him about it because she didn't believe Courtney.

I don't know. Maybe Courtney Smith really is a victim. That will be decided in a court of law, not on a message board. I've seen too many cases in which people make up this stuff and get other people all fired up about it. I'll wait for a jury to listen to the evidence, if it ever gets that far.


I actually agree with you as a personal opinion.....we do not know what happened, and that is for the legal system to determine. A lot of people talk out of thier ass about things they have no knowledge of....in this instance, anything related to Zach and Courtney Smith.

I have a friend in WV that is an attorney and she told me any decent divorce lawyer in the country that is representing a female with custody issues involved will immediately advise and seek ways to bring law enforcement into the situation after a divorce case has been filed. She told me that the attorney will immediately seek any way possible for the female spouse to claim abuse....or even fear of abuse when the client absolutely claims there has never been physical abuse. She said anything to file for a retraining order....even if not granted, the filing can hold some prejudice in the divorce and custody proceedings. Next, she said go for "trespassing".....even if you invited the other spouse to your residence for a discussion or pick something up....if they do not leave immediately after the first request, contact police and ask for a trespassing warning or citation.....all in an effort to prejudice the divorce and custody case. She told me she assumes the attorney did not do their job when she sees a divorce hearing, and these filings have not been attempted. She said it usually avoids going before the judge because the spouse is ready to settle instead of going to court and defending against abuse, trespassing, or whatever else he has been accused of in recent months.

I asked my ex wife about what my friend told me, and she confirmed it nearly word for word about conversations with her attorney.....I was just fortunate that she did not take that path and we both sought a reasonable conclusion. My ex even told me how her attorney told her if she ever was touched or grabbed.....how she could use pressure to bring more blood to the surface of the skin to make it appear more red before she took photo's!! Maybe everything Courtney Smith said is true....or maybe none of it is true....no one on this board knows that answer.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:47 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Courtney Smith had already gone to the police. In fact, she did it twice, in 2009 and 2015. The police brought no charges. Courtney Smith filed for divorce and had an attorney. This year, Courtney Smith got the police to bring criminal trespass charges against Zach Smith, as well as a restraining order. I see people trying to fit this case into the "helpless victim whose pleas were ignored" template. That's a square peg and a round hole. Courtney Smith didn't need Urban Meyer to protect her.

Meyer got disciplined because he did not inform OSU compliance of the pending criminal investigation in 2015. The police brought no charges, but in theory OSU could have conducted its own investigation. Personally, I think that there is a significant BS factor with this -- What was OSU going to do when the police found insufficient evidence to bring charges? Later, Meyer might have known what Courtney was telling his wife, but his wife said she never talked to him about it because she didn't believe Courtney.

I don't know. Maybe Courtney Smith really is a victim. That will be decided in a court of law, not on a message board. I've seen too many cases in which people make up this stuff and get other people all fired up about it. I'll wait for a jury to listen to the evidence, if it ever gets that far.


I actually agree with you as a personal opinion.....we do not know what happened, and that is for the legal system to determine. A lot of people talk out of thier ass about things they have no knowledge of....in this instance, anything related to Zach and Courtney Smith.

I have a friend in WV that is an attorney and she told me any decent divorce lawyer in the country that is representing a female with custody issues involved will immediately advise and seek ways to bring law enforcement into the situation after a divorce case has been filed. She told me that the attorney will immediately seek any way possible for the female spouse to claim abuse....or even fear of abuse when the client absolutely claims there has never been physical abuse. She said anything to file for a retraining order....even if not granted, the filing can hold some prejudice in the divorce and custody proceedings. Next, she said go for "trespassing".....even if you invited the other spouse to your residence for a discussion or pick something up....if they do not leave immediately after the first request, contact police and ask for a trespassing warning or citation.....all in an effort to prejudice the divorce and custody case. She told me she assumes the attorney did not do their job when she sees a divorce hearing, and these filings have not been attempted. She said it usually avoids going before the judge because the spouse is ready to settle instead of going to court and defending against abuse, trespassing, or whatever else he has been accused of in recent months.

I asked my ex wife about what my friend told me, and she confirmed it nearly word for word about conversations with her attorney.....I was just fortunate that she did not take that path and we both sought a reasonable conclusion. My ex even told me how her attorney told her if she ever was touched or grabbed.....how she could use pressure to bring more blood to the surface of the skin to make it appear more red before she took photo's!! Maybe everything Courtney Smith said is true....or maybe none of it is true....no one on this board knows that answer.


Let's shorten these two posts into a sentence each:

Poster A: Police didn't charge Zach Smith, where's the video evidence? Liar.

Poster B: Women are liars who are terrible people.

Great work, gentlemen.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:03 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Keep in mind that Zach Smith's lawyer, in deflecting his client's apparent physical abuse over a period of years


Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Courtney Smith had already gone to the police. In fact, she did it twice, in 2009 and 2015. The police brought no charges


Isn't that the definition of the "helpless victim whose pleas were ignored"


No, in fact it raises a question about her credibility. It is important to remember that there are a lot of false accusations in the domestic context. A jury may eventually find that she is telling the truth. Or it may not.

Either way, Urban Meyer is the head football coach. His obligation is to report to the compliance unit at OSU, not to investigate the allegations or to enforce the law. In this case, the police were already involved. If the police do not see fit to bring charges, it is not Urban Meyer's responsibility -- legally or morally -- to go and do something about it.

This is what I meant when I said that this was a square peg with a round hole. The domestic abuse allegations were not covered up. The police had investigated twice, and apparently they did not find Courtney Smith to be credible. Meyer's violation was not informing OSU's compliance unit and making inaccurate statements at the press conference.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
I actually agree with you as a personal opinion.....we do not know what happened, and that is for the legal system to determine. A lot of people talk out of thier ass about things they have no knowledge of....in this instance, anything related to Zach and Courtney Smith.

I have a friend in WV that is an attorney and she told me any decent divorce lawyer in the country that is representing a female with custody issues involved will immediately advise and seek ways to bring law enforcement into the situation after a divorce case has been filed. She told me that the attorney will immediately seek any way possible for the female spouse to claim abuse....or even fear of abuse when the client absolutely claims there has never been physical abuse. She said anything to file for a retraining order....even if not granted, the filing can hold some prejudice in the divorce and custody proceedings. Next, she said go for "trespassing".....even if you invited the other spouse to your residence for a discussion or pick something up....if they do not leave immediately after the first request, contact police and ask for a trespassing warning or citation.....all in an effort to prejudice the divorce and custody case. She told me she assumes the attorney did not do their job when she sees a divorce hearing, and these filings have not been attempted. She said it usually avoids going before the judge because the spouse is ready to settle instead of going to court and defending against abuse, trespassing, or whatever else he has been accused of in recent months.

I asked my ex wife about what my friend told me, and she confirmed it nearly word for word about conversations with her attorney.....I was just fortunate that she did not take that path and we both sought a reasonable conclusion. My ex even told me how her attorney told her if she ever was touched or grabbed.....how she could use pressure to bring more blood to the surface of the skin to make it appear more red before she took photo's!! Maybe everything Courtney Smith said is true....or maybe none of it is true....no one on this board knows that answer.


I didn't want to just come out and say this, but yes, that's true. In my opinion, that is unethical behavior on the part of family law attorneys. It happens every day, though. Family court is a cesspool, and I want nothing to do with it. My brother is a high profile divorce lawyer in Dallas. He has easily made 10-20 times as much money as an attorney, and it might be higher. I wouldn't trade places with him.

At one time, it was virtually form book practice to plead that the husband was sexually abusing the kids. At least in Texas, this became less common when some women got jail time for making false accusations to the police.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:41 am    Post subject:

So, to be clear at Ohio State:

trade autographs for tattoos--5 games (5 players tattoo gate)
Cover up tattoo gate--lose job (tressell)
cover up domestic abuse--3 games

well done ohio state...well done.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject:

Huskers wrote:
cover up domestic abuse--3 games


This is the part that a lot of people, and a lot of media pundits, don't grasp. Nothing was covered up.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
Let's shorten these two posts into a sentence each:

Poster A: Police didn't charge Zach Smith, where's the video evidence? Liar.

Poster B: Women are liars who are terrible people.

Great work, gentlemen.


in no way am i saying she is a liar....with a gun to my head, I would definitely bet on that he was physical with her, and I do not find that behavior acceptable....but the fact is it would just be a gut feeling probably biased about what I have heard from her.

I have seen too much or mostly heard too much from people with no real reason to lie to me to assume the truth in divorce and custody cases. I never took the challenge, but my friend challenged me to attend a day of divorce proceedings/hearings or whatever takes place in public in front of the judge at my local courthouse.....and she guaranteed me that even on the best day, more than 50% of the cases will have law enforcement records included after the date the divorce was filed or within a month previously when the lawyers got involved.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject:

My final opinion as it relates to Meyer. I do not care. I am not employed nor did I attend Ohio State. I do not live in the state of Ohio so my taxes are not directly supporting the institution. This is between Meyer, the school, and anyone connected to the school in any way. I will not benefit nor suffer from their decision. I kind of think the fix was in with the "investigation", and the decision was more about money and PR.....but that will be those involved cross the bear.

If this was a Dean within the School of Business.....or the Director of Maintenance....would everyone be losing their mind? My speculation is most of the people that really wanted Meyer to be harshly punished are those that feel they may indirectly benefit or those that just enjoy seeing very successful people fall. I say indirectly benefit as in fans of other Big 10 teams that feel if Meyer was gone, their team would have better chances at success. I think this is a microscopic illustration of a much bigger issue in society where we are now more commonly trying to "win" in life by reducing others. It just seems like that is the chosen path over trying to perform better than others. I am at least trying to refuse becoming that person.....I do not care for Meyer the public figure....but he is a man, with a family and friends, and I refuse to find joy in seeing bad things happen to someone else that has zero effect on me.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
My final opinion as it relates to Meyer. I do not care. I am not employed nor did I attend Ohio State. I do not live in the state of Ohio so my taxes are not directly supporting the institution. This is between Meyer, the school, and anyone connected to the school in any way. I will not benefit nor suffer from their decision. I kind of think the fix was in with the "investigation", and the decision was more about money and PR.....but that will be those involved cross the bear.

If this was a Dean within the School of Business.....or the Director of Maintenance....would everyone be losing their mind? My speculation is most of the people that really wanted Meyer to be harshly punished are those that feel they may indirectly benefit or those that just enjoy seeing very successful people fall. I say indirectly benefit as in fans of other Big 10 teams that feel if Meyer was gone, their team would have better chances at success. I think this is a microscopic illustration of a much bigger issue in society where we are now more commonly trying to "win" in life by reducing others. It just seems like that is the chosen path over trying to perform better than others. I am at least trying to refuse becoming that person.....I do not care for Meyer the public figure....but he is a man, with a family and friends, and I refuse to find joy in seeing bad things happen to someone else that has zero effect on me.


I don't have an axe to grind, but let me turn your question back around: If this was the Dean of the Business School, or the Director of maintenance, would either in any likelihood even have their job?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
I don't have an axe to grind, but let me turn your question back around: If this was the Dean of the Business School, or the Director of maintenance, would either in any likelihood even have their job?


It is impossible for me to say with certainty, but either way if it was at Ohio State University.....it would be something the university and it's stakeholders would have to determine. My guess is they would because I doubt anyone would expect a person within a supervisory role within a traditional position at a University to be involved in the personal lives and responsible for those they supervise outside of the university setting. We have seen many cases where institutions have stepped in when actions by a professor became public and was potentially damaging to the universities reputation but did not involve students....but I do not recall internal investigations where supervisors and colleagues were scrutinized about prior knowledge, etc.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:41 am    Post subject:

Meyer's "apology" was ludicrous. Who is handling this Joker's PR, the Iraqi Defense Minister?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:53 am    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
Meyer's "apology" was ludicrous. Who is handling this Joker's PR, the Iraqi Defense Minister?


Unless it affects OSU’s recruiting, I doubt he cares much. If it does turn out to affect recruiting, he’ll regret agreeing to go on stage and answer questions when he was obviously so angry that he was being suspended.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:14 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
adkindo wrote:
My final opinion as it relates to Meyer. I do not care. I am not employed nor did I attend Ohio State. I do not live in the state of Ohio so my taxes are not directly supporting the institution. This is between Meyer, the school, and anyone connected to the school in any way. I will not benefit nor suffer from their decision. I kind of think the fix was in with the "investigation", and the decision was more about money and PR.....but that will be those involved cross the bear.

If this was a Dean within the School of Business.....or the Director of Maintenance....would everyone be losing their mind? My speculation is most of the people that really wanted Meyer to be harshly punished are those that feel they may indirectly benefit or those that just enjoy seeing very successful people fall. I say indirectly benefit as in fans of other Big 10 teams that feel if Meyer was gone, their team would have better chances at success. I think this is a microscopic illustration of a much bigger issue in society where we are now more commonly trying to "win" in life by reducing others. It just seems like that is the chosen path over trying to perform better than others. I am at least trying to refuse becoming that person.....I do not care for Meyer the public figure....but he is a man, with a family and friends, and I refuse to find joy in seeing bad things happen to someone else that has zero effect on me.


I don't have an axe to grind, but let me turn your question back around: If this was the Dean of the Business School, or the Director of maintenance, would either in any likelihood even have their job?


Football and college sports are two institutions that I don’t understand how people feel good about supporting.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:17 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
adkindo wrote:
My final opinion as it relates to Meyer. I do not care. I am not employed nor did I attend Ohio State. I do not live in the state of Ohio so my taxes are not directly supporting the institution. This is between Meyer, the school, and anyone connected to the school in any way. I will not benefit nor suffer from their decision. I kind of think the fix was in with the "investigation", and the decision was more about money and PR.....but that will be those involved cross the bear.

If this was a Dean within the School of Business.....or the Director of Maintenance....would everyone be losing their mind? My speculation is most of the people that really wanted Meyer to be harshly punished are those that feel they may indirectly benefit or those that just enjoy seeing very successful people fall. I say indirectly benefit as in fans of other Big 10 teams that feel if Meyer was gone, their team would have better chances at success. I think this is a microscopic illustration of a much bigger issue in society where we are now more commonly trying to "win" in life by reducing others. It just seems like that is the chosen path over trying to perform better than others. I am at least trying to refuse becoming that person.....I do not care for Meyer the public figure....but he is a man, with a family and friends, and I refuse to find joy in seeing bad things happen to someone else that has zero effect on me.


I don't have an axe to grind, but let me turn your question back around: If this was the Dean of the Business School, or the Director of maintenance, would either in any likelihood even have their job?


Probably. Years of assault charges against a USC doctor and his job was safe. We can’t underestimate the way some groups stick together. The coaching ranks are definitely one of those groups.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Huskers wrote:
cover up domestic abuse--3 games


This is the part that a lot of people, and a lot of media pundits, don't grasp. Nothing was covered up.


I don't know, maybe it's just me, but if one of Urb's first things he does after news breaks is figure out how to have text messages over a year deleted, to me sounds like he has something to hide, and he's doing his best to cover it up.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
adkindo wrote:
My final opinion as it relates to Meyer. I do not care. I am not employed nor did I attend Ohio State. I do not live in the state of Ohio so my taxes are not directly supporting the institution. This is between Meyer, the school, and anyone connected to the school in any way. I will not benefit nor suffer from their decision. I kind of think the fix was in with the "investigation", and the decision was more about money and PR.....but that will be those involved cross the bear.

If this was a Dean within the School of Business.....or the Director of Maintenance....would everyone be losing their mind? My speculation is most of the people that really wanted Meyer to be harshly punished are those that feel they may indirectly benefit or those that just enjoy seeing very successful people fall. I say indirectly benefit as in fans of other Big 10 teams that feel if Meyer was gone, their team would have better chances at success. I think this is a microscopic illustration of a much bigger issue in society where we are now more commonly trying to "win" in life by reducing others. It just seems like that is the chosen path over trying to perform better than others. I am at least trying to refuse becoming that person.....I do not care for Meyer the public figure....but he is a man, with a family and friends, and I refuse to find joy in seeing bad things happen to someone else that has zero effect on me.


I don't have an axe to grind, but let me turn your question back around: If this was the Dean of the Business School, or the Director of maintenance, would either in any likelihood even have their job?


Probably. Years of assault charges against a USC doctor and his job was safe. We can’t underestimate the way some groups stick together. The coaching ranks are definitely one of those groups.


Fair enough, good point.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:19 am    Post subject:

Huskers wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Huskers wrote:
cover up domestic abuse--3 games


This is the part that a lot of people, and a lot of media pundits, don't grasp. Nothing was covered up.


I don't know, maybe it's just me, but if one of Urb's first things he does after news breaks is figure out how to have text messages over a year deleted, to me sounds like he has something to hide, and he's doing his best to cover it up.


You said "cover up domestic abuse." How do you cover up something that is the subject of a police investigation and divorce litigation?

My take on the facts is this: Neither the police nor the Meyers believed Courtney Smith. Read the posts from Adkindo above. I think that both the police and the Meyers think that this is the situation with Courtney Smith. I think that the Meyers tuned her out. They may or may not have been right about Courtney Smith.

In any event, Meyer knew about the 2015 incident (because the AD told him about it after learning of the police investigation), and he assumed that he personally didn't need to do anything because the AD knew about it. In fact, he had a responsibility to insure that it was reported internally within OSU, whether he did it himself or whether the AD did it.

When he found out that Zach Smith was having issues again, and when he found out that Zach Smith was not telling him about it, he got angry and fired Smith. Meyer has zero tolerance for underlings who do not obey his orders. Then the media got hold of the story. In the era of #metoo, this was juicy stuff. A lot of people will just instantly believe Courtney Smith and take everything she says as gospel. (And, to be clear, it could eventually turn out to be true.) The media got all excited.

Meyer is not used to being under scrutiny for things like this, and he is an arrogant SOB, so he did some stupid things expecting it all to go away. He got embarrassed, and now OSU needs to spank him.

That's my take on the situation. It may not turn out to be completely right, but I have the benefit of not giving a flip about OSU football or having some bias against Urban Meyer.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:38 pm    Post subject:

I do feel compelled to post this even though no one on this board made this claim....but I heard someone state today that it was on Courtney Smith for not leaving her husband immediately if he abused her in 2009. I did not respond to the person because they were not talking directly to me, but that is a statement easy to make in a vacuum.

If anyone has been married with children....and even had the thought of ending the marriage knows that is an extremely difficult decision to make. When you are the one affected by the decision, there are a million things you feel you must consider like many things in life. My point is the fact that Smith or any female does not immediately leave is not evidence that the abuse was not real.....or evidence that it was real. Separation, divorce, children, etc. are all excruciating decisions for many people.....heck, even people that are not even in love any longer struggle to make these life altering decisions.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:15 pm    Post subject:

Yes, that's not evidence of anything. I'm surprised that anyone would make that argument in this day and age. Anyway, she did call the police twice, file for divorce, get a restraining order, and bring criminal trespass charges.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:59 am    Post subject:

Meyer also apologized to her yesterday on Twitter, and I guarantee y'all that he had to do that because someone got in his ear and made it clear to him that he came off looking like an uncaring jackass at the press conference.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:41 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Meyer also apologized to her yesterday on Twitter, and I guarantee y'all that he had to do that because someone got in his ear and made it clear to him that he came off looking like an uncaring jackass at the press conference.


I thought he came off looking like Urban Meyer
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:43 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Meyer also apologized to her yesterday on Twitter, and I guarantee y'all that he had to do that because someone got in his ear and made it clear to him that he came off looking like an uncaring jackass at the press conference.


I thought he came off looking like Urban Meyer


Touche!
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:33 pm    Post subject:

I get two things from this situation.

The media is a beast.

We live in a scary society. And I mean this from both sides of the coin. It is a shame a man abused a women and had some serious personal issues.

Also, it is a shame him and this women are being dragged about in the media. This is a personal issue, these people are going to be scarred for life for real now thanks to the media.

And Urban Meyer, I do not like him. That said, what is he being charged with? Conspiracy to commit domestic violence? I'm sorry but this is comical.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject:

24Legend007 wrote:
And Urban Meyer, I do not like him. That said, what is he being charged with? Conspiracy to commit domestic violence? I'm sorry but this is comical.


I agree with most of what you’re saying. To answer this point, OSU would have fired Meyer in a heartbeat if there was evidence that he was somehow complicit in domestic violence. More than anything else, it was the press conference that got him suspended. He was too arrogant to duck questions that he wasn’t prepared to answer. If he had said, “I can’t comment on that subject at this time,” this would not have become such a big deal. Instead, he opened his mouth and dug himself a hole.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject:

24Legend007 wrote:
I get two things from this situation.

The media is a beast.

We live in a scary society. And I mean this from both sides of the coin. It is a shame a man abused a women and had some serious personal issues.

Also, it is a shame him and this women are being dragged about in the media. This is a personal issue, these people are going to be scarred for life for real now thanks to the media.

And Urban Meyer, I do not like him. That said, what is he being charged with? Conspiracy to commit domestic violence? I'm sorry but this is comical.


Meyer isn’t being charged with anything
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