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ocho
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 Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | RashardA wrote: | Lonzo really is a complete bust for where he was drafted.
He's a role player taken at a position of the draft where you should be drafting a franchise player.
He also doesnt have the heart or desire for the game and its evident when he plays.
I honestly dont see Lonzo having a very long career and it has nothing to do with his ability.
I dont even think he enjoys playing the game at all.
He would prefer to rap. |
Franchise players don't grow on trees, even in the lottery. We should know. We were in the lottery for 4 years in a row, including three #2 picks. Depending on how you look at Ingram, we maybe got one franchise player in the group and we are a team that drafts very well. There are a lot of variables that go into it, but fans tend to expect a star if they're picking high. Just doesn't work out that way. |
All of our top draft picks, except Lonzo thus far have proven themselves to be All-Star quality(Randle, Russell) and potential franchise quality(Ingram) so that's pretty good on the scouting department.
And far as Lonzo goes his health is going to be a big factor in what he becomes and develops into, ultimately. |
That's my whole point. All those guys are good! Some have made All Star teams. Are any of them franchise players in the traditional sense? I don't know if Ingram is going to lead you to a championship, but he keeps improving. Getting franchise players is really, really hard. Even with high lottery picks.
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Nash Vegas
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Lonzo was Magic’s pick.
Randle, Dlo, Ingram were Mitch’s picks.
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Laker4lifer4real
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Tatum or Mitchell should have been the pick over Lonzo. I will say that the Lakers were clicking and then Lonzo rolled his ankle. That was it for the Playoffs. |
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Laker4lifer4real
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Tatum or Mitchell should have been the pick over Lonzo. I will say that the Lakers were clicking and then Lonzo rolled his ankle. That was it for the Playoffs. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | PASTOR RILEY wrote: | | Release McKinney and get Kevin porter jr. |
We are hard capped. Not sure if we could do that. Plus he’s a young prospect, I’m sure someone like the Knicks may trade for him. |
He can be added on a 2-way. Unlikely to happen.
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D-Shiznit
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | PASTOR RILEY wrote: | | Release McKinney and get Kevin porter jr. |
We are hard capped. Not sure if we could do that. Plus he’s a young prospect, I’m sure someone like the Knicks may trade for him. |
He can be added on a 2-way. Unlikely to happen. |
Is a trade involving McKinney for him possible? Salary wise etc |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | Lonzo was Magic’s pick.
Randle, Dlo, Ingram were Mitch’s picks. |
Magic screwed up the worst...Mitch/Jim actually did good here....they missed on DLO's year by passing on Booker and possibly Porz. Randle's year they could have had LaVine. But easy to judge now...that's why I'm saying they did well...Magic inexcusable by not taking Tatum, Fox or Mitchell |
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | Nash Vegas wrote: | Lonzo was Magic’s pick.
Randle, Dlo, Ingram were Mitch’s picks. |
Magic screwed up the worst...Mitch/Jim actually did good here....they missed on DLO's year by passing on Booker and possibly Porz. Randle's year they could have had LaVine. But easy to judge now...that's why I'm saying they did well...Magic inexcusable by not taking Tatum, Fox or Mitchell |
Mitchell was never in the discussion. It was basically Jackson/Tatum/Fox or Ball.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| D-Shiznit wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | PASTOR RILEY wrote: | | Release McKinney and get Kevin porter jr. |
We are hard capped. Not sure if we could do that. Plus he’s a young prospect, I’m sure someone like the Knicks may trade for him. |
He can be added on a 2-way. Unlikely to happen. |
Is a trade involving McKinney for him possible? Salary wise etc |
Looks like it, yes.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Nash Vegas wrote: | Lonzo was Magic’s pick.
Randle, Dlo, Ingram were Mitch’s picks. |
Magic screwed up the worst...Mitch/Jim actually did good here....they missed on DLO's year by passing on Booker and possibly Porz. Randle's year they could have had LaVine. But easy to judge now...that's why I'm saying they did well...Magic inexcusable by not taking Tatum, Fox or Mitchell |
Mitchell was never in the discussion. It was basically Jackson/Tatum/Fox or Ball. |
And Booker was never in the discussion. Most here wanted Okafor or Mudiay if it wasn't DLo with Porzingis and Hezonja as dark horses.
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King Randle
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Nash Vegas wrote: | Lonzo was Magic’s pick.
Randle, Dlo, Ingram were Mitch’s picks. |
Magic screwed up the worst...Mitch/Jim actually did good here....they missed on DLO's year by passing on Booker and possibly Porz. Randle's year they could have had LaVine. But easy to judge now...that's why I'm saying they did well...Magic inexcusable by not taking Tatum, Fox or Mitchell |
Mitchell was never in the discussion. It was basically Jackson/Tatum/Fox or Ball. |
And Booker was never in the discussion. Most here wanted Okafor or Mudiay if it wasn't DLo with Porzingis and Hezonja as dark horses. |
Yup...that's why I'm saying they did a good job. |
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PayasoLoco
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Joined: 07 Jul 2001
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | Nash Vegas wrote: | Lonzo was Magic’s pick.
Randle, Dlo, Ingram were Mitch’s picks. |
Magic screwed up the worst...Mitch/Jim actually did good here....they missed on DLO's year by passing on Booker and possibly Porz. Randle's year they could have had LaVine. But easy to judge now...that's why I'm saying they did well...Magic inexcusable by not taking Tatum, Fox or Mitchell |
There was ONE POSTER who randles year said we should draft jokic. forgot who it was |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Randle, Ingram, Kuzma, Clarkson. Lopez were all ahead of Lonzo in the scoring pecking order. |
Eh. When you aren't willing to attack, you are going to be low on the scoring pecking order. We are way past the point at which the excuses for Lonzo's offense became hollow. It wasn't that long ago that people were saying that Lonzo would be the next Jason Kidd. Instead, he's pretty much the same player he was as a rookie.
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | RashardA wrote: | Lonzo really is a complete bust for where he was drafted.
He's a role player taken at a position of the draft where you should be drafting a franchise player.
He also doesnt have the heart or desire for the game and its evident when he plays.
I honestly dont see Lonzo having a very long career and it has nothing to do with his ability.
I dont even think he enjoys playing the game at all.
He would prefer to rap. |
Franchise players don't grow on trees, even in the lottery. We should know. We were in the lottery for 4 years in a row, including three #2 picks. Depending on how you look at Ingram, we maybe got one franchise player in the group and we are a team that drafts very well. There are a lot of variables that go into it, but fans tend to expect a star if they're picking high. Just doesn't work out that way. |
All of our top draft picks, except Lonzo thus far have proven themselves to be All-Star quality(Randle, Russell) and potential franchise quality(Ingram) so that's pretty good on the scouting department.
And far as Lonzo goes his health is going to be a big factor in what he becomes and develops into, ultimately. |
That's my whole point. All those guys are good! Some have made All Star teams. Are any of them franchise players in the traditional sense? I don't know if Ingram is going to lead you to a championship, but he keeps improving. Getting franchise players is really, really hard. Even with high lottery picks. |
You can determine whether a player can lead a franchise to a Championship if you also look at whom their second options/players surrounding them are. Anthony Davis can't lead a team to a Championship by that metric, but he's without doubt a franchise player.
James Harden is also a franchise talent. But he has proven he can't lead a team to a Championship as the Rockets pretty much put everything around him that he wanted, every star, every coach, every system, every scenario and he blamed everyone else before blaming himself. So he's not the guy that will lead your team to a Championship. But he's a franchise talent regardless. But one that lacks leadership qualities.
There's been a lot of franchise talents through the league that weren't able to lead their team to a Championship for one reason or another. It's a 30 team league, and only one team wins. It doesn't mean the other 29 are lacking franchise talent. Scenario and teammates matter a lot.
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crackadon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | D-Shiznit wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | PASTOR RILEY wrote: | | Release McKinney and get Kevin porter jr. |
We are hard capped. Not sure if we could do that. Plus he’s a young prospect, I’m sure someone like the Knicks may trade for him. |
He can be added on a 2-way. Unlikely to happen. |
Is a trade involving McKinney for him possible? Salary wise etc |
Looks like it, yes. |
We got McKinney from the Cavs through the McGee trade. Pretty sure we can't just trade him back or that they would even want him.
This is the same reason we can't get Javale back from them either. |
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D-Shiznit
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| If we can't trade McKinney, maybe ship Kostas for him, throw in a conditional 2nd rounder. |
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lakerican
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | PASTOR RILEY wrote: | | Release McKinney and get Kevin porter jr. |
We are hard capped. Not sure if we could do that. Plus he’s a young prospect, I’m sure someone like the Knicks may trade for him. |
He can be added on a 2-way. Unlikely to happen. |
2way money is not enough for the stash. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| crackadon wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | D-Shiznit wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | PASTOR RILEY wrote: | | Release McKinney and get Kevin porter jr. |
We are hard capped. Not sure if we could do that. Plus he’s a young prospect, I’m sure someone like the Knicks may trade for him. |
He can be added on a 2-way. Unlikely to happen. |
Is a trade involving McKinney for him possible? Salary wise etc |
Looks like it, yes. |
We got McKinney from the Cavs through the McGee trade. Pretty sure we can't just trade him back or that they would even want him.
This is the same reason we can't get Javale back from them either. |
I don't know if that's true.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | James Harden is also a franchise talent. But he has proven he can't lead a team to a Championship as the Rockets pretty much put everything around him that he wanted, every star, every coach, every system, every scenario and he blamed everyone else before blaming himself. So he's not the guy that will lead your team to a Championship. But he's a franchise talent regardless. But one that lacks leadership qualities. |
The Rockets couldn't quite get past the peak Warriors. The Warriors then swept the Cavs and Lebron in the Finals. Sometimes winning a title isn't so much about being in the right place at the right time as it's about not being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The Olajuwon era Rockets could not beat the Seattle. The Sonics were like Kryptonite for the Rockets. But in the title seasons, someone else knocked off the Sonics.
The point is that the narrative gets distorted by the halo effect that comes from winning titles, and by the reverse effect that comes from not winning titles. It wasn't all that long ago in the grand scheme when people were saying that Lebron couldn't win a title, and a little before that when people were saying that Kobe couldn't win a title without Shaq. Toronto could never win a title, until they did.
It's tempting to turn the results of the playoffs into a moral judgment. Players whose teams win are winners, players whose teams fall short are losers. I don't mean that in the literal sense, but rather in the moral sense. The players on winning teams have intangible qualities that led to the result. The other players lost because they were deficient. Or at least that becomes the narrative.
I'm not a Harden fan. But can he take a team to a title? Oh, yeah, he can. Is he going to do it this year? Probably not. The Nets are defensively unsound, and we're just plain better if we're healthy. It really has nothing to do with Harden's leadership ability.
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crackadon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | crackadon wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | D-Shiznit wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | PASTOR RILEY wrote: | | Release McKinney and get Kevin porter jr. |
We are hard capped. Not sure if we could do that. Plus he’s a young prospect, I’m sure someone like the Knicks may trade for him. |
He can be added on a 2-way. Unlikely to happen. |
Is a trade involving McKinney for him possible? Salary wise etc |
Looks like it, yes. |
We got McKinney from the Cavs through the McGee trade. Pretty sure we can't just trade him back or that they would even want him.
This is the same reason we can't get Javale back from them either. |
I don't know if that's true. |
I honestly don't know if you're trolling half the time on this forum. A lot of the stuff you say is either wildly inaccurate or a take so bad that it looks like you're joking.
I looked it up. Something that would have taken you 1, 2 minutes max.
| Quote: | WAITING PERIODS
No Re-Acquisitions — Once a team trades a player, it cannot reacquire that player during the same season. If the team trades a player between seasons, it cannot reacquire that player until the end of the next season. The only exceptions to these rules are if the player is waived and no other team claims the player. |
https://cbabreakdown.com/trades |
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hype
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Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | James Harden is also a franchise talent. But he has proven he can't lead a team to a Championship as the Rockets pretty much put everything around him that he wanted, every star, every coach, every system, every scenario and he blamed everyone else before blaming himself. So he's not the guy that will lead your team to a Championship. But he's a franchise talent regardless. But one that lacks leadership qualities. |
The Rockets couldn't quite get past the peak Warriors. The Warriors then swept the Cavs and Lebron in the Finals. Sometimes winning a title isn't so much about being in the right place at the right time as it's about not being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The Olajuwon era Rockets could not beat the Seattle. The Sonics were like Kryptonite for the Rockets. But in the title seasons, someone else knocked off the Sonics.
The point is that the narrative gets distorted by the halo effect that comes from winning titles, and by the reverse effect that comes from not winning titles. It wasn't all that long ago in the grand scheme when people were saying that Lebron couldn't win a title, and a little before that when people were saying that Kobe couldn't win a title without Shaq. Toronto could never win a title, until they did.
It's tempting to turn the results of the playoffs into a moral judgment. Players whose teams win are winners, players whose teams fall short are losers. I don't mean that in the literal sense, but rather in the moral sense. The players on winning teams have intangible qualities that led to the result. The other players lost because they were deficient. Or at least that becomes the narrative.
I'm not a Harden fan. But can he take a team to a title? Oh, yeah, he can. Is he going to do it this year? Probably not. The Nets are defensively unsound, and we're just plain better if we're healthy. It really has nothing to do with Harden's leadership ability. |
All of what you said is mostly true but Harden has been on the footsteps of advancing deeper many times and like clockwork he folds in the biggest lights. There's a reason why people always talk about him underperforming yearly. His 4 game 7's and 19 elimination games he is shooting about 40% and I remember hearing another stat which I can't remember exactly but in those same elimination games he has almost as many turnovers as assists. All of that is much lower then his averages by a large margin. So idk, I strongly believe he absolutely cant lead a team to the Championship as the #1 guy. If the Nets do win it in the next few years I have my money on it being KD's team as he doesn't shrink or borderline disappear in those massive moments. Now that he is a sidekick to possibly the best player in the game his chances are much better and he's in a spot he's never really been before outside of those early Thunder teams but they were super young at that point. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: |
Magic screwed up the worst...Mitch/Jim actually did good here. |
At strictly drafting. Sure. Mitch/Jim did better than Magic.
Overall. Magic >>>>>> Jim/Mitch
With Jim and Mitch we were getting laughed out of the room in Derozan, Melo, L. Aldridge, D. Jordan free agency meetings (if we even got the meeting). Free agents thought it was a joke how bad we were. We went from that to signing Bron in free agency with Magic. Signing Bron even without a 2nd star coming that offseason. Bron specifically said he signed here because of his sitdown with Magic.
Don't even get me started on those Deng and Mozgov contracts Jim/Mitch went with. They were horrible contracts the day they signed them. Not a "hindsight is 50/50" sort of thing.
Rob's better than all of the above. And we're back to where we should be because of him. But there are levels to this stuff.
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Kobe_Is_King13
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | King Randle wrote: |
Magic screwed up the worst...Mitch/Jim actually did good here. |
At strictly drafting. Sure. Mitch/Jim did better than Magic.
Overall. Magic >>>>>> Jim/Mitch
With Jim and Mitch we were getting laughed out of the room in Derozan, Melo, L. Aldridge, D. Jordan free agency meetings (if we even got the meeting). Free agents thought it was a joke how bad we were. We went from that to signing Bron in free agency with Magic. Signing Bron even without a 2nd star coming that offseason. Bron specifically said he signed here because of his sitdown with Magic.
Don't even get me started on those Deng and Mozgov contracts Jim/Mitch went with. They were horrible contracts the day they signed them. Not a "hindsight is 50/50" sort of thing.
Rob's better than all of the above. And we're back to where we should be because of him. But there are levels to this stuff. |
LOL....They were pretty horrible immediately when they signed them. I distinctly remember thinking "What the h*** are they thinking??" when they signed them.  |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Folks, we still have Deng's cap hit...think about that. 2021. Deng. Still.
W.
T.
F.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| I think the point is that you can get players that are very good, and all-star caliber if you draft well. However to get those 1 or 2 top 2 players on a championship level team, is the most extremely difficult thing to attain. They are only about 8-10 players like that in the league, and maybe you get 1 player like that in a draft if you are fortunate. |
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