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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:24 am    Post subject:

32 wrote:
I think the Pelicans will pull out all the stops to try to appease Davis by the trade deadline. I think they'll try to trade for an All-Star. I think they are going to need a good playoff run.


How though? What are they dangling?

They have too many good big men, 0 wings, and a flawed guard rotation with Jrue being the only bright spot.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject:

Austin Rivers to Memphis

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1075106580977205248
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:32 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Oh think Ben is a great player... but I'm amazed at how the guy who averages 16 points for us at 20... is looked upon as a failure... yet Ben who seems to have plateaued beneath 16... is an unmitigated success.


I haven't called him a failure, nor have many here. But again, Ben isn't a scorer. His bread and butter is passing/rebounding/defense. He excels in those areas in an all star caliber.


I think you have been pretty fair about BI... but my post was directed at the board.

It just happened to come up in your conversation so I addressed the chasm in perception between the two... when it should be much smaller.


At draft time I thought the chasm wasn't too wide, but after 2 full seasons (1 where Simmons was out with injury), I think it's pretty wide.

Ben is an all-NBA caliber player. We knew about his passing and inaiblity to shoot; but his defense has been a big surprise to me. He's way above BI now to me, even factoring in the LBJ transition.


He's clearly the better athlete, but the question is whether BI can improve.

Some here think he's fully developed... he's just not twitchy and quick enough to get to the next level.

Maybe they are right, but I still think his body hasn't filled out and he has further to go.

If he packed another 20 pounds onto his frame and smoothed out his shot... then the difference won't be vast at all.

We shall see... hopefully we can find a way to keep him until LBJ retires when we will have the fully formed version.


But Ben also can improve. They're what, 1 year apart and physically they are worlds apart right now.

My hope was that BI would be a great shooter and that he could lord a 3 point shot over Ben. But he takes so few 3s and his game is dependent on many of the same types of drives that Ben takes.


He might, but so far he hasn't... granted he was already an older player and at a higher level so it's harder to get better... but he looks like he's not going to become a great scorer which would put him only in the all star rather than superstar zone.

This makes him an achievable target for BI... more so than Giannis.

I'm not saying Ben won't improve... but that was point at the beginning of the conversation... he didn't take the quantum leap forward and gain an outside shot and start scoring like Westbrook.


Last edited by Sentient Meat on Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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32
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
32 wrote:
I think the Pelicans will pull out all the stops to try to appease Davis by the trade deadline. I think they'll try to trade for an All-Star. I think they are going to need a good playoff run.


How though? What are they dangling?

They have too many good big men, 0 wings, and a flawed guard rotation with Jrue being the only bright spot.


Well I guess not. lol
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:36 am    Post subject:

I wouldn't underestimate the power of AD moving to Klutch sports. Let's say this summer NO is entertaining offers for AD. If Rich Paul tells Ainge or any other team for that matter his client wants to play for the Lakers and he will walk as a free agent what does Ainge do? Does he roll the dice and do it anyways hoping he will change his mind?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:38 am    Post subject:

SAS supposedly saying that unconfirmed sources on his show that the Celtics are offering Tatum and Brown for Anthony Davis
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject:

Unconfirmed. lol
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
SAS supposedly saying that unconfirmed sources on his show that the Celtics are offering Tatum and Brown for Anthony Davis


https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/are-tatum-and-brown-key-eventually-landing-anthony-davis
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Austin Rivers to Memphis

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1075106580977205248


Good

We dodged a 10 page thread on how we should get him
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject:

Aphex Twin wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
SAS supposedly saying that unconfirmed sources on his show that the Celtics are offering Tatum and Brown for Anthony Davis


https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/are-tatum-and-brown-key-eventually-landing-anthony-davis


He didn't say they are offering Tatum and Brown. It's his opinion that they should.

Quote:
Kyle Draper explains why he thinks the key to ever landing Anthony Davis may have to rely on Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum.

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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject:

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He might, but so far he hasn't... granted he was already an older player and at a higher level so it's harder to get better... but he looks like he's not going to become a great scorer which would put him only in the all star rather than superstar zone.

This makes him an achievable target for BI... more so than Giannis.

I'm not saying Ben won't improve... but that was point at the beginning of the conversation... he didn't take the quantum leap forward and gain an outside shot and start scoring like Westbrook.


He's only 1 year older than BI. Not sure why that makes so much of a difference in season 3 for both of them.

You seem to be fixated on PPG as a tell-all metric. It's not. Ben affects so many more levels of the game then BI at the moment. His body is already playoff ready and he will likely improve other facets of his game.

Plus, he has two 20+ppg scorers in Jimmy and Embiid. The fact that Ben doesn't look for his own shot is probably a good thing.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject:

Carmelo Anthony and LeBron hanging out and eating dinner in NY

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.tmz.com/2018/12/18/lebron-james-carmelo-anthony-lakers-dinner/
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:03 pm    Post subject:

noahp45 wrote:
Yeah my fault, I fixed it thou.

I should have stated that I saw your numbers that show he started and played in games. But I was trying to point out that even thou he played in those games he was hurt and didn't play to his full potential


maybe you are correct and there is more context....but 20 games in most players are playing with hurt and pain....which leads to less than their full potential.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
SAS supposedly saying that unconfirmed sources on his show that the Celtics are offering Tatum and Brown for Anthony Davis


I heard him on ESPN this morning sounding like he was berating the Lakers for giving KCP a no trade clause....like he did not even understand that it was not a function of offering but implicit to the CBA.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:07 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
He might, but so far he hasn't... granted he was already an older player and at a higher level so it's harder to get better... but he looks like he's not going to become a great scorer which would put him only in the all star rather than superstar zone.

This makes him an achievable target for BI... more so than Giannis.

I'm not saying Ben won't improve... but that was point at the beginning of the conversation... he didn't take the quantum leap forward and gain an outside shot and start scoring like Westbrook.


He's only 1 year older than BI. Not sure why that makes so much of a difference in season 3 for both of them.

You seem to be fixated on PPG as a tell-all metric. It's not. Ben affects so many more levels of the game then BI at the moment. His body is already playoff ready and he will likely improve other facets of his game.

Plus, he has two 20+ppg scorers in Jimmy and Embiid. The fact that Ben doesn't look for his own shot is probably a good thing.


Not saying that your final conclusion is wrong, Simmons is the superior prospect, but disagree that at one year doesn't make much of a difference...

And if Simmons not being a high scorer is okay because he plays with Embiid and now Butler.. INGRAM plays with one of the best scorers of all time (also more ball dominant than Embiid or Butler) and a shot hungry Kuzma...
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:08 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Austin Rivers to Memphis

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1075106580977205248


that organization is a joke in my opinion....they desperately need to rebuild, but just keep dragging useless bodies in like this that will keep them out of the bottom of the lottery, but will not keep them in the playoffs. I have watched their last two games, and I expect them to fade quickly from the playoff picture.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:13 pm    Post subject:

Killakobe81 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
He might, but so far he hasn't... granted he was already an older player and at a higher level so it's harder to get better... but he looks like he's not going to become a great scorer which would put him only in the all star rather than superstar zone.

This makes him an achievable target for BI... more so than Giannis.

I'm not saying Ben won't improve... but that was point at the beginning of the conversation... he didn't take the quantum leap forward and gain an outside shot and start scoring like Westbrook.


He's only 1 year older than BI. Not sure why that makes so much of a difference in season 3 for both of them.

You seem to be fixated on PPG as a tell-all metric. It's not. Ben affects so many more levels of the game then BI at the moment. His body is already playoff ready and he will likely improve other facets of his game.

Plus, he has two 20+ppg scorers in Jimmy and Embiid. The fact that Ben doesn't look for his own shot is probably a good thing.


Not saying that your final conclusion is wrong, Simmons is the superior prospect, but disagree that at one year doesn't make much of a difference...

And if Simmons not being a high scorer is okay because he plays with Embiid and now Butler.. INGRAM plays with one of the best scorers of all time (also more ball dominant than Embiid or Butler) and a shot hungry Kuzma...


Notice the fluidity difference. Ben has the agility of a guard and the dribbling ability of a guard. The usage rate of Embiid/Jimmy combined pales in comparison to LBJ/Kuz.

One year when we're talking about being in their respective 3rd NBA season becomes less of a difference. BI will never have that level of physical fluidity.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Killakobe81 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
He might, but so far he hasn't... granted he was already an older player and at a higher level so it's harder to get better... but he looks like he's not going to become a great scorer which would put him only in the all star rather than superstar zone.

This makes him an achievable target for BI... more so than Giannis.

I'm not saying Ben won't improve... but that was point at the beginning of the conversation... he didn't take the quantum leap forward and gain an outside shot and start scoring like Westbrook.


He's only 1 year older than BI. Not sure why that makes so much of a difference in season 3 for both of them.

You seem to be fixated on PPG as a tell-all metric. It's not. Ben affects so many more levels of the game then BI at the moment. His body is already playoff ready and he will likely improve other facets of his game.

Plus, he has two 20+ppg scorers in Jimmy and Embiid. The fact that Ben doesn't look for his own shot is probably a good thing.


Not saying that your final conclusion is wrong, Simmons is the superior prospect, but disagree that at one year doesn't make much of a difference...

And if Simmons not being a high scorer is okay because he plays with Embiid and now Butler.. INGRAM plays with one of the best scorers of all time (also more ball dominant than Embiid or Butler) and a shot hungry Kuzma...


Notice the fluidity difference. Ben has the agility of a guard and the dribbling ability of a guard. The usage rate of Embiid/Jimmy combined pales in comparison to LBJ/Kuz.

One year when we're talking about being in their respective 3rd NBA season becomes less of a difference. BI will never have that level of physical fluidity.


Again, I agree that Ben is better right now... that point isn't in dispute... my point is poor playing Ingram is scoring the same.

What happens when he can start getting to the rim at will?

What happens if his shooting improves?

Sure Ingram's handles are worse... he's less agile, but he shoots way better than Ben from range.

All I've said this entire conversation is if you believe 2018 Ingram is the finished product then yes, Ben is better... but if you don't... then this might be a different conversation in three years.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Killakobe81 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
He might, but so far he hasn't... granted he was already an older player and at a higher level so it's harder to get better... but he looks like he's not going to become a great scorer which would put him only in the all star rather than superstar zone.

This makes him an achievable target for BI... more so than Giannis.

I'm not saying Ben won't improve... but that was point at the beginning of the conversation... he didn't take the quantum leap forward and gain an outside shot and start scoring like Westbrook.


He's only 1 year older than BI. Not sure why that makes so much of a difference in season 3 for both of them.

You seem to be fixated on PPG as a tell-all metric. It's not. Ben affects so many more levels of the game then BI at the moment. His body is already playoff ready and he will likely improve other facets of his game.

Plus, he has two 20+ppg scorers in Jimmy and Embiid. The fact that Ben doesn't look for his own shot is probably a good thing.


Not saying that your final conclusion is wrong, Simmons is the superior prospect, but disagree that at one year doesn't make much of a difference...

And if Simmons not being a high scorer is okay because he plays with Embiid and now Butler.. INGRAM plays with one of the best scorers of all time (also more ball dominant than Embiid or Butler) and a shot hungry Kuzma...


Notice the fluidity difference. Ben has the agility of a guard and the dribbling ability of a guard. The usage rate of Embiid/Jimmy combined pales in comparison to LBJ/Kuz.

One year when we're talking about being in their respective 3rd NBA season becomes less of a difference. BI will never have that level of physical fluidity.


Again, I agree that Ben is better right now... that point isn't in dispute... my point is poor playing Ingram is scoring the same.

What happens when he can start getting to the rim at will?

What happens if his shooting improves?

Sure Ingram's handles are worse... he's less agile, but he shoots way better than Ben from range.

All I've said this entire conversation is if you believe 2018 Ingram is the finished product then yes, Ben is better... but if you don't... then this might be a different conversation in three years.


But the logical fallacy is assuming that Ben won't continue outpacing BI in terms of improvement. In 3 years I'd expect Ben to reach even a higher level (and BI too). But baseline wise, it's not close IMO. Ben's floor and ceiling remain higher than BI right now IMO.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:30 pm    Post subject:

Put simply, I don't think the 76ers would include Ben in a trade for AD. Would we include BI? Of course. Who do you think the Pels would want as a centerpiece b/w Ben and BI? I don't think that's a difficult question.

But this says a lot more about how bullish I am about Ben. BI just isn't as polished now. Could he become that later? Maybe. But now? Not close.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:


But the logical fallacy is assuming that Ben won't continue outpacing BI in terms of improvement. In 3 years I'd expect Ben to reach even a higher level (and BI too). But baseline wise, it's not close IMO. Ben's floor and ceiling remain higher than BI right now IMO.


Which do you think is more likely?

That BI gets stronger and finds his way more easily to the rim?

Or that Ben becomes a good shooter?

I ask this because Ben's game is complete in most aspects... I don't think he will start getting 15 assists and 15 rebounds per game... but I do believe BI will end up averaging over 20.

If Ben develops a shot... he will become one of the greatest players of all time.

I thought he'd make some progress forward but he didn't.

To be fair to you, I thought BI would make more progress as well, and he hasn't.

I just think Ben has hit his peak and BI hasn't... but sure, I'll allow it's possible he can get better... I'm just not sure where that would be when he's already elite at rebounding and playmaking.

Ingram on the other hand, I can see going up significantly as a scorer.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:


But the logical fallacy is assuming that Ben won't continue outpacing BI in terms of improvement. In 3 years I'd expect Ben to reach even a higher level (and BI too). But baseline wise, it's not close IMO. Ben's floor and ceiling remain higher than BI right now IMO.


Which do you think is more likely?

That BI gets stronger and finds his way more easily to the rim?

Or that Ben becomes a good shooter?

I ask this because Ben's game is complete in most aspects... I don't think he will start getting 15 assists and 15 rebounds per game... but I do believe BI will end up averaging over 20.

If Ben develops a shot... he will become one of the greatest players of all time.

I thought he'd make some progress forward but he didn't.

To be fair to you, I thought BI would make more progress as well, and he hasn't.

I just think Ben has hit his peak and BI hasn't... but sure, I'll allow it's possible he can get better... I'm just not sure where that would be when he's already elite at rebounding and playmaking.

Ingram on the other hand, I can see going up significantly as a scorer.


BI can improve on those areas and Ben can still be better without a jumper.

He's an elite playmaker/passer, good rebounder, and a good defender already. He's physically miles ahead of BI. So BI improving in certain areas would still leave him trailing Ben IMO.

And how does Ben at age 22 "hit his peak" already?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject:

VLF trolling entire LG and lg still falls for it after so many years

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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:38 pm    Post subject:

Kevin Pelton (paywall, I don't subscribe to E+) says 5 suggested trade targets:

- DeMarre Carroll
- Rudy Gay
- Wayne Ellington
- Justin Holiday
- Rodney Hood

Holiday/Hood may be low cost/asset guys. Wayne/Rudy will require some assets and Carroll, not sure about that.

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/25560753/five-lakers-trade-targets-missing-trevor-ariza
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Put simply, I don't think the 76ers would include Ben in a trade for AD. Would we include BI? Of course. Who do you think the Pels would want as a centerpiece b/w Ben and BI? I don't think that's a difficult question.

But this says a lot more about how bullish I am about Ben. BI just isn't as polished now. Could he become that later? Maybe. But now? Not close.


Yuck for embiid/AD front court
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