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Joe Pesci
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 Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | On Dec. 15th:
Trade Pope, Horton-Tucker, Cousins, and picks for Iguodala.
Does Pope have a no-trade clause? |
Yes. De facto power to prevent a trade, but not technically a no trade clause. |
Then he'd only agree to be sent to Memphis if he was buried on the bench on the Lakers, out of the rotation. That's doable.
Does Memphis take Pope, Tucker, and 2nd round picks for Iggy? |
Does Rich Paul wants 2 of his clients in Memphis? |
Why not? As long as they're getting minutes and an opportunity to increase their value, I'm sure he's happy.
His next deal, if he stays on the Lakers, will be a minimum deal. Why? Because he'll have a Jud Buechler role here, a fourth or fifth wing.
If Pope isn't getting any minutes, both him and Paul would be in favor of a new team, especially a team like Memphis with a gaping hole at starting SG.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:22 am Post subject: |
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IIRC, KCP would lose his early bird rights if he's traded, which is why he can veto it.
If his goal, whether it's viable or not, is for the Lakers to have his Bird rights, not sure he would agree to that (and leave what may be a championship contending team).
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Bard207
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | IIRC, KCP would lose his early bird rights if he's traded, which is why he can veto it.
If his goal, whether it's viable or not, is for the Lakers to have his Bird rights, not sure he would agree to that (and leave what may be a championship contending team). |
101. When can't a player be traded? Can players be given "no-trade" clauses in their contracts?
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A "no-trade" clause prevents the team from trading the player without the player's consent. A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract1 if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons2. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons -- for example, Horace Grant received a no-trade clause from Orlando when he signed with them in 2001. He had played for Orlando for the requisite four seasons, but had played for Seattle and Los Angeles in the interim. Few players actually have one of these negotiated no-trade clauses -- currently only Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James and Dirk Nowitzki have them.
If a player with a negotiated no-trade clause consents to a trade and is traded, his no-trade clause remains in effect with his new team.
There are two additional circumstances in which a trade requires the player's consent:
* When the player is playing under a one-year contract (excluding any option year) and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the season. This includes first round draft picks following their fourth (option) season, who accept their team's qualifying offer for their fifth season. When the player consents to such a trade, his Larry Bird/Early Bird rights are not traded with him, and instead becomes a Non-Bird free agent3. The player's consent is also required for any subsequent trades that season.
* For one year after exercising the right of first refusal to keep a restricted free agent. The player must consent to a trade to any team, although he cannot be traded to the team that signed him to the offer sheet.
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This will be his third season in LA, so it would be his full Bird Rights that would be sacrificed by accepting a trade this season.
25. What are salary cap exceptions?
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The basic rule of the NBA's salary cap is that a team can't sign a player or make a trade that leaves the team's team salary above the cap, unless the team is using an exception. In a system with a soft cap, exceptions are the mechanisms that allow teams to function while above the cap. Some exceptions are available only for making trades, and are described in detail starting in question number 84. The exceptions available for signing players are as follows1:
LARRY BIRD EXCEPTION -- This exception allows teams to exceed the cap in order to re-sign their own free agents, up to the player's maximum salary. Teams are said to have "Bird rights" to players who qualify. To qualify for this exception a player essentially must play for three seasons without clearing waivers or changing teams as a free agent, however there are nuances to this rule, which are explained in question number 32. This means a player can qualify by playing under three consecutive one-year contracts, a single contract of at least three years, or any equivalent combination.
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If the strategy to run off KCP is to bury him on the bench so he wants to escape, then Memphis (or similar) could be skeptical that he can play at an acceptable level. Since he has a player option for next season, Memphis could be reluctant to take a mystery player for a small amount of assets
If he gets regular minutes in the first half of the season to try and build his trade value, he will feel comfortable in LA and won't have a reason to accept a trade to a rebuilding Memphis. |
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:56 am Post subject: |
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Memphis does it to potentially save money and to get Horton-Tucker and a couple of picks. If they were to get Pope, they'd play him huge minutes to outplay his contract, which he probably will (with lots of minutes).
Memphis would be relatively safe here. There biggest gripe would be finding a way to make room for a three for one or three for two trade.
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Chick's Magic Johnson
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | Memphis does it to potentially save money and to get Horton-Tucker and a couple of picks. If they were to get Pope, they'd play him huge minutes to outplay his contract, which he probably will (with lots of minutes).
Memphis would be relatively safe here. There biggest gripe would be finding a way to make room for a three for one or three for two trade. |
Except KCP has a PO for 2020 for $8.5M and Memphis may not view him as a positive asset. |
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Chick's Magic Johnson wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | Memphis does it to potentially save money and to get Horton-Tucker and a couple of picks. If they were to get Pope, they'd play him huge minutes to outplay his contract, which he probably will (with lots of minutes).
Memphis would be relatively safe here. There biggest gripe would be finding a way to make room for a three for one or three for two trade. |
Except KCP has a PO for 2020 for $8.5M and Memphis may not view him as a positive asset. |
I'm aware. It's all about perspective though. This year and next he is set to make MLE money. Every team not under the cap has this kind of money. With lots of minutes and certain financial motivation, from my perspective, he easily outplays his contract. Pope at worst signs an MLE deal. If a team gives him minutes, he almost surely opts out.
If he doesn't, Memphis pays virtually the same amount of money they'd be paying Iguodala for one year, but they'd be getting Horton-Tucker and a couple of seconds as well.
It'd be almost a carbon copy of what Avery Bradley experienced in his limited time in Memphis.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | Memphis does it to potentially save money and to get Horton-Tucker and a couple of picks. If they were to get Pope, they'd play him huge minutes to outplay his contract, which he probably will (with lots of minutes).
Memphis would be relatively safe here. There biggest gripe would be finding a way to make room for a three for one or three for two trade. |
I'm just not sure Klutch wants two of its clients dumped to Memphis like that, especially for a guy who may just be bought out.
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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I hear you. It's simple math to me though. If he's not getting steady rotation minutes on one team, but getting 35 minute burn a night on another, he'd rather have the minutes and value increase because this is a contract year for him, and he's still psychologically trying to recoup the money he lost from years ago.
Pope ain't a player who's 35 and looking at his basketball mortality. He's still chasing dough. If the Lakers "Jud Buechler" him and only play him situationally, he'd probably prefer a chance to play big minutes and gain a bigger contract next year. He's already been benched and he could very well lose a ton of minutes to Cook, Dudley, and/or Daniels, not to mention Norvell.
We will see how it plays out.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | I hear you. It's simple math to me though. If he's not getting steady rotation minutes on one team, but getting 35 minute burn a night on another, he'd rather have the minutes and value increase because this is a contract year for him, and he's still psychologically trying to recoup the money he lost from years ago.
Pope ain't a player who's 35 and looking at his basketball mortality. He's still chasing dough. If the Lakers "Jud Buechler" him and only play him situationally, he'd probably prefer a chance to play big minutes and gain a bigger contract next year. He's already been benched and he could very well lose a ton of minutes to Cook, Dudley, and/or Daniels, not to mention Norvell.
We will see how it plays out. |
I don't want KCP back. But after 3 years, he probably feels damn confident that under the Klutch aegis, he can stay a Laker as long as he wants.
Those Laker Bird rights are probably valuable to him, even if he's not getting a lot of PT.
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2019
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | I hear you. It's simple math to me though. If he's not getting steady rotation minutes on one team, but getting 35 minute burn a night on another, he'd rather have the minutes and value increase because this is a contract year for him, and he's still psychologically trying to recoup the money he lost from years ago.
Pope ain't a player who's 35 and looking at his basketball mortality. He's still chasing dough. If the Lakers "Jud Buechler" him and only play him situationally, he'd probably prefer a chance to play big minutes and gain a bigger contract next year. He's already been benched and he could very well lose a ton of minutes to Cook, Dudley, and/or Daniels, not to mention Norvell.
We will see how it plays out. |
I don't want KCP back. But after 3 years, he probably feels damn confident that under the Klutch aegis, he can stay a Laker as long as he wants.
Those Laker Bird rights are probably valuable to him, even if he's not getting a lot of PT. |
If can keep shooting in the upper 30's from 3 and have a high motor on defense, I'm okay. Never been a fan and never will be but meh.
Still a waste of money as Shumpert could be had for the minimum but we're int he Klutch business it's better than the Jeanie, Rambis, Rob business. If this is an ancillary cost, I guess it could be a lot worse. |
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | scout0_0 wrote: | | bad move to cut Cacok. The guy has game. |
Who would you have cut from the team?
Boogie's 3.5m would be a big trade piece.
Troy Daniels (who shot lights out in preseason from 3)?
Dudley? Who will assume the emeritus Rick Fox chair for the Lakers (and many young players have praised him for his mentorship)?
Norvell? Who lit it up at the end of preseason?
Baby Giannis? Obviously no.
How much time would Cacok have realistically played? |
Yeah, can't keep everybody. Cacock looked good, but this team as currently constructed lacks guards with playmaking/initiating capacity. Cacock seems like a luxury more then a necessity right now. |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Just get used to it.
CPK is retiring a Lakers.
PS: Chicken Tequila Fettuccine is the bomb. |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| The Grizz want KCP about as much as LG does ........ jus' sayin' |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Chick's Magic Johnson wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | Memphis does it to potentially save money and to get Horton-Tucker and a couple of picks. If they were to get Pope, they'd play him huge minutes to outplay his contract, which he probably will (with lots of minutes).
Memphis would be relatively safe here. There biggest gripe would be finding a way to make room for a three for one or three for two trade. |
Except KCP has a PO for 2020 for $8.5M and Memphis may not view him as a positive asset. |
Plus I doubt that they are impressed with Horton-Tucker and the crappy picks we could offer. Easily beatable.
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scout0_0
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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KCP for vanvleet  |
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eureca
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Doubt it.
Just need our injured guys back.
Plus I don't think cook, Troy and kcp have many games where all 3 suck |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Any decent PGs out there available for Kuzma and filler?
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LakerMindLA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Trading Zubac was such a bad decision by the Lakers.
Lakers should have pulled the same move the Clippers did but keeping his cap-hold, then signing him to a larger contract.
Lakers need salary to make trade and really don't have anything.
We can't even get a Dragic or Teague or Schroder since we don't have salary to trade. |
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levon
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Any decent PGs out there available for Kuzma and filler? |
Shame Dragic makes so much. Kuzma + KCP for someone needs to happen. |
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scout0_0
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| DJ agustin would solve alot of our issues. |
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levon
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| scout0_0 wrote: | | DJ agustin would solve alot of our issues. |
The only PG the Magic have had in the last 45 years? It'd probably be easier to trade for Steph.
Last edited by levon on Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LakerMindLA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Any decent PGs out there available for Kuzma and filler? |
We really don't have enough contracts to make any meaningful trade. We can't even take on a contract if a team wanted to do a salary dump for a 2nd round pick. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | Trading Zubac was such a bad decision by the Lakers.
Lakers should have pulled the same move the Clippers did but keeping his cap-hold, then signing him to a larger contract.
Lakers need salary to make trade and really don't have anything.
We can't even get a Dragic or Teague or Schroder since we don't have salary to trade. |
Yup - Magic really wasn't good with the small stuff.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | On Dec. 15th:
Trade Pope, Horton-Tucker, Cousins, and picks for Iguodala.
Does Pope have a no-trade clause? |
Might not be enough. But we're definitely better off than we are now.
The biggest hurtle is KCP. I doubt we trade him. Between Rich Paul and LBJ's pull, and his no trade clause. It's a pipe dream.
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