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k1ngph1l
Sixth Man
Joined: 13 Nov 2009
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 Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | | jankobe wrote: | | CP3 is nothing without another Star beside him. OKC will find more empty seats come Oct. |
he made some of those NOLA teams pretty competitive without a big star helping him |
David West in his prime was an all star 20 and 9 player with good defense. |
David West is not an all star without Chris Paul. |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | Woj said that CP3 trade discussions are parked and the expectation now is that Chris Paul will play for the Thunder, to no one’s surprise. Zero incentive to buy him out, and every incentive to play him while looking for a trade in the future. |
Damn, I do kinda feel bad for him. He chose us to contend and we banished him. At least they gave him his max. |
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numero-ocho
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't get that prosportstransactions format. 
Here's what RealGM has on that pick to OKC.
| Quote: | 2020 first round draft pick from Denver
Denver's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-10 in 2020, 1-10 in 2021 and 1-10 in 2022; if Denver has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Oklahoma City by 2022, then Denver will instead convey its 2023 2nd round pick and 2024 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Denver-Oklahoma City, 7/8/2019] |
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jankobe
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | jankobe wrote: | | CP3 is nothing without another Star beside him. OKC will find more empty seats come Oct. |
he made some of those NOLA teams pretty competitive without a big star helping him |
That was about what...10-15 years ago? His rookie and sophomore seasons? |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13711
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | Woj said that CP3 trade discussions are parked and the expectation now is that Chris Paul will play for the Thunder, to no one’s surprise. Zero incentive to buy him out, and every incentive to play him while looking for a trade in the future. |
His career is effectively ova |
I think he can actually help lead the Thunder to realistically compete for a low seeded playoff spot. He can still play and put butts in the seats. But yeah, his chances of competing for a ring at this point are really low. |
I think it will be really hard to do when Presti is thinking Tank/Rebuild and they have a young PG prospect in SGA. The Thunder are going to want to play him and those minutes are coming out of CP3 and Schroder's.
Presti will move Adams contract the first chance he gets and Gallo will be gone by next season. It wouldn't surprise me if they try to move Schroder as well. |
What makes you think they plan on tanking since you don’t get the lotto odds benefit anymore and they own a bunch of picks already? After last season I think teams will try to compete and let the chips fall where they fall. |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: |
Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't get that prosportstransactions format.
Here's what RealGM has on that pick to OKC.
| Quote: | 2020 first round draft pick from Denver
Denver's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-10 in 2020, 1-10 in 2021 and 1-10 in 2022; if Denver has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Oklahoma City by 2022, then Denver will instead convey its 2023 2nd round pick and 2024 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Denver-Oklahoma City, 7/8/2019] |
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So if I'm understanding it correctly. OKC probably won't get a lotto pick. Since DEN will probably make the playoffs. Wow. What were you thinking Presti?
At least they won't hurt their own 2020 1st round draft pick if CP3, Shroeder and Adams win some games. Since OKC doesn't have their own 2020 1st round pick.
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | Woj said that CP3 trade discussions are parked and the expectation now is that Chris Paul will play for the Thunder, to no one’s surprise. Zero incentive to buy him out, and every incentive to play him while looking for a trade in the future. |
His career is effectively ova |
I think he can actually help lead the Thunder to realistically compete for a low seeded playoff spot. He can still play and put butts in the seats. But yeah, his chances of competing for a ring at this point are really low. |
I think it will be really hard to do when Presti is thinking Tank/Rebuild and they have a young PG prospect in SGA. The Thunder are going to want to play him and those minutes are coming out of CP3 and Schroder's.
Presti will move Adams contract the first chance he gets and Gallo will be gone by next season. It wouldn't surprise me if they try to move Schroder as well. |
What makes you think they plan on tanking since you don’t get the lotto odds benefit anymore and they own a bunch of picks already? After last season I think teams will try to compete and let the chips fall where they fall. |
Because they realistically do not have a championship roster now. No high-end potential. I've already said that they could make the playoffs if they actually try this year. But why be like the Spurs last year? What is the point of that? Sure, there's no guarantee of a top-4 pick if you tank. But if ownership can trade CP3 to Miami, even if it costs them one of those first round picks, I think it's the way to go. Not only does ownership save a lot of money by doing that, but they can likely recoup the value of what they give up to jettison CP3 by trading Gallo and, say, Dragic if they got him in a CP3 deal. Not to mention that they'll have a higher pick in the 2020 draft if they tank. The OKC fans had the expectation of being a serious contender for a decade. I think their fans will understand a rebuild, especially given how many picks they've acquired.
EDIT: I see that OKC doesn't have its own 2020 pick. That does change the calculus a bit, but I still think that it would be worth it to jettison CP3 if it only cost them 1 first round pick. |
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defense
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I still think Cp3 is a better player than Westbrook. Westbrook is a bonehead who refuses to sacrifice for his team |
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hype
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | I still think Cp3 is a better player than Westbrook. Westbrook is a bonehead who refuses to sacrifice for his team |
If he could stay healthy, I just think his healthy days for any extended period of time are over at this point. If he does though I agree completely and thats coming from someone who strongly dislikes him. |
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mhan00
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | I'm surprised CP3's side sees a benefit to playing out the year in OKC, since they are trying to tank.
But not surprised he's untradeable. |
Doesn’t matter what CP3’s side thinks when they’re not willing to take the pay cut necessary to make a buyout make sense for OKC. He could literally give up half of his contract (and there’s no way he does that) and OKC will likely still say no. |
Do you think Woj is lying when he says CP3 side sees a benefit to playing there? Just wondering. |
Why would Woj be lying? There are absolutely benefits to CP3 to play in OKC. He could get the adoration of the OKC fans, and he gets to prove he’s still a great player while being paid a boatload of money playing a game I think it’s safe to presume he loves. He might be able to convince a team on the cusp of contention to take him on without forcing OKC to give up assets to get rid of him. What’s his alternative? He could threaten to sit out the year, but that doesn’t help him in any way and could even threaten the guaranteed money he’s got locked in if OKC decided to make an issue of it. He knows there’s no way OKC buys him out with his contract, so his only option is to play. |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | Because they realistically do not have a championship roster now. No high-end potential. I've already said that they could make the playoffs if they actually try this year. But why be like the Spurs last year? What is the point of that? Sure, there's no guarantee of a top-4 pick if you tank. But if ownership can trade CP3 to Miami, even if it costs them one of those first round picks, I think it's the way to go. Not only does ownership save a lot of money by doing that, but they can likely recoup the value of what they give up to jettison CP3 by trading Gallo and, say, Dragic if they got him in a CP3 deal. Not to mention that they'll have a higher pick in the 2020 draft if they tank. The OKC fans had the expectation of being a serious contender for a decade. I think their fans will understand a rebuild, especially given how many picks they've acquired.
EDIT: I see that OKC doesn't have its own 2020 pick. That does change the calculus a bit, but I still think that it would be worth it to jettison CP3 if it only cost them 1 first round pick. |
Because tanking no longer gives you great lotto odds. You can now try to be competitive and still get a high pick. And if they make the playoffs they still have plenty of others picks.
Nothing wrong with actually trying to win games, show your young players (like the PG prospect) how to win and giving your fans a good product. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | I still think Cp3 is a better player than Westbrook. Westbrook is a bonehead who refuses to sacrifice for his team |
I agree if healthy. And a better fit too. |
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mhan00
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | Woj said that CP3 trade discussions are parked and the expectation now is that Chris Paul will play for the Thunder, to no one’s surprise. Zero incentive to buy him out, and every incentive to play him while looking for a trade in the future. |
His career is effectively ova |
I think he can actually help lead the Thunder to realistically compete for a low seeded playoff spot. He can still play and put butts in the seats. But yeah, his chances of competing for a ring at this point are really low. |
I think it will be really hard to do when Presti is thinking Tank/Rebuild and they have a young PG prospect in SGA. The Thunder are going to want to play him and those minutes are coming out of CP3 and Schroder's.
Presti will move Adams contract the first chance he gets and Gallo will be gone by next season. It wouldn't surprise me if they try to move Schroder as well. |
What makes you think they plan on tanking since you don’t get the lotto odds benefit anymore and they own a bunch of picks already? After last season I think teams will try to compete and let the chips fall where they fall. |
Because they realistically do not have a championship roster now. No high-end potential. I've already said that they could make the playoffs if they actually try this year. But why be like the Spurs last year? What is the point of that? Sure, there's no guarantee of a top-4 pick if you tank. But if ownership can trade CP3 to Miami, even if it costs them one of those first round picks, I think it's the way to go. Not only does ownership save a lot of money by doing that, but they can likely recoup the value of what they give up to jettison CP3 by trading Gallo and, say, Dragic if they got him in a CP3 deal. Not to mention that they'll have a higher pick in the 2020 draft if they tank. The OKC fans had the expectation of being a serious contender for a decade. I think their fans will understand a rebuild, especially given how many picks they've acquired.
EDIT: I see that OKC doesn't have its own 2020 pick. That does change the calculus a bit, but I still think that it would be worth it to jettison CP3 if it only cost them 1 first round pick. |
Making the playoffs doesn’t have to be about winning a championship only. It’s a way to generate or maintain passion for a team with their fan base, and by all accounts is a pretty good money maker for the teams that do make it. A lot of fans like watching their team more, and playoff games can be incredibly exciting because the stakes are so high in every game compared to regular season games. |
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eddiejonze
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thundersground.net
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manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3188
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | Woj said that CP3 trade discussions are parked and the expectation now is that Chris Paul will play for the Thunder, to no one’s surprise. Zero incentive to buy him out, and every incentive to play him while looking for a trade in the future. |
His career is effectively ova |
I think he can actually help lead the Thunder to realistically compete for a low seeded playoff spot. He can still play and put butts in the seats. But yeah, his chances of competing for a ring at this point are really low. |
I think it will be really hard to do when Presti is thinking Tank/Rebuild and they have a young PG prospect in SGA. The Thunder are going to want to play him and those minutes are coming out of CP3 and Schroder's.
Presti will move Adams contract the first chance he gets and Gallo will be gone by next season. It wouldn't surprise me if they try to move Schroder as well. |
What makes you think they plan on tanking since you don’t get the lotto odds benefit anymore and they own a bunch of picks already? After last season I think teams will try to compete and let the chips fall where they fall. |
Because they realistically do not have a championship roster now. No high-end potential. I've already said that they could make the playoffs if they actually try this year. But why be like the Spurs last year? What is the point of that? Sure, there's no guarantee of a top-4 pick if you tank. But if ownership can trade CP3 to Miami, even if it costs them one of those first round picks, I think it's the way to go. Not only does ownership save a lot of money by doing that, but they can likely recoup the value of what they give up to jettison CP3 by trading Gallo and, say, Dragic if they got him in a CP3 deal. Not to mention that they'll have a higher pick in the 2020 draft if they tank. The OKC fans had the expectation of being a serious contender for a decade. I think their fans will understand a rebuild, especially given how many picks they've acquired.
EDIT: I see that OKC doesn't have its own 2020 pick. That does change the calculus a bit, but I still think that it would be worth it to jettison CP3 if it only cost them 1 first round pick. |
They have their own pick protected 1-20 this upcoming season.
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Inverse
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Darryl Morey trading CP3 to basketball purgatory in OKC will leave a very sour taste in future free agents mouths for years to come.
Same narrative we saw with Ainge this past summer.
But hey, at least he got his bag. It's a business right? 
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numero-ocho
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | Woj said that CP3 trade discussions are parked and the expectation now is that Chris Paul will play for the Thunder, to no one’s surprise. Zero incentive to buy him out, and every incentive to play him while looking for a trade in the future. |
His career is effectively ova |
I think he can actually help lead the Thunder to realistically compete for a low seeded playoff spot. He can still play and put butts in the seats. But yeah, his chances of competing for a ring at this point are really low. |
I think it will be really hard to do when Presti is thinking Tank/Rebuild and they have a young PG prospect in SGA. The Thunder are going to want to play him and those minutes are coming out of CP3 and Schroder's.
Presti will move Adams contract the first chance he gets and Gallo will be gone by next season. It wouldn't surprise me if they try to move Schroder as well. |
What makes you think they plan on tanking since you don’t get the lotto odds benefit anymore and they own a bunch of picks already? After last season I think teams will try to compete and let the chips fall where they fall. |
The best way for teams like OKC to rebuild is through the draft but the picks they got from other teams are either protected or from teams that are expected to do well for the next few years. The picks they got from other teams are for supplemental talent or trade assets.
They're best chance at a high pick rests with their own team. Even if the odds of getting the top pick are less weighted than in the past they are still weighted in favor of the worst teams.
If the Thunder flip some of those trade assets for some talent that will be under contract for a few years then I'll believe they aren't tanking. Until then, everything they've done or are rumored to be doing indicates they are.
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numero-ocho
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | Woj said that CP3 trade discussions are parked and the expectation now is that Chris Paul will play for the Thunder, to no one’s surprise. Zero incentive to buy him out, and every incentive to play him while looking for a trade in the future. |
His career is effectively ova |
I think he can actually help lead the Thunder to realistically compete for a low seeded playoff spot. He can still play and put butts in the seats. But yeah, his chances of competing for a ring at this point are really low. |
I think it will be really hard to do when Presti is thinking Tank/Rebuild and they have a young PG prospect in SGA. The Thunder are going to want to play him and those minutes are coming out of CP3 and Schroder's.
Presti will move Adams contract the first chance he gets and Gallo will be gone by next season. It wouldn't surprise me if they try to move Schroder as well. |
What makes you think they plan on tanking since you don’t get the lotto odds benefit anymore and they own a bunch of picks already? After last season I think teams will try to compete and let the chips fall where they fall. |
Because they realistically do not have a championship roster now. No high-end potential. I've already said that they could make the playoffs if they actually try this year. But why be like the Spurs last year? What is the point of that? Sure, there's no guarantee of a top-4 pick if you tank. But if ownership can trade CP3 to Miami, even if it costs them one of those first round picks, I think it's the way to go. Not only does ownership save a lot of money by doing that, but they can likely recoup the value of what they give up to jettison CP3 by trading Gallo and, say, Dragic if they got him in a CP3 deal. Not to mention that they'll have a higher pick in the 2020 draft if they tank. The OKC fans had the expectation of being a serious contender for a decade. I think their fans will understand a rebuild, especially given how many picks they've acquired.
EDIT: I see that OKC doesn't have its own 2020 pick. That does change the calculus a bit, but I still think that it would be worth it to jettison CP3 if it only cost them 1 first round pick. |
Making the playoffs doesn’t have to be about winning a championship only. It’s a way to generate or maintain passion for a team with their fan base, and by all accounts is a pretty good money maker for the teams that do make it. A lot of fans like watching their team more, and playoff games can be incredibly exciting because the stakes are so high in every game compared to regular season games. |
That is so hilarious to read on this board after 3-4 years of Official Tank Threads that started earlier and earlier every season.
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"Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant |
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mhan00
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Inverse wrote: | Darryl Morey trading CP3 to basketball purgatory in OKC will leave a very sour taste in future free agents mouths for years to come.
Same narrative we saw with Ainge this past summer.
But hey, at least he got his bag. It's a business right? |
Can we please stop pretending stuff like this matters to free agents? It might be part of the calculus, but it’s a minor one. The Clippers ethered Blake Griffin in a major way, promising him the world in their pitch to him to re-sign, complete with T-shirt’s comparing him to Ghandi and fake retiring his jersey before trading him that same season to Detroit. It was public, and they were mocked for it, and it didn’t matter one bit when Kawhi Leonard and Paul George had their chance to join the team. We paid Kobe 48 million fresh off of an Achilles tear and the Clippers did their franchise guy dirty, and none of it mattered in the end because it was a minor consideration compared to a myriad of other factors. |
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BennyLava
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Inverse wrote: | Darryl Morey trading CP3 to basketball purgatory in OKC will leave a very sour taste in future free agents mouths for years to come.
Same narrative we saw with Ainge this past summer.
But hey, at least he got his bag. It's a business right? |
Dreamshake will have a very good reason as to why this is not only not true but the best thing to happen to CP3 for his career whilst also being a brilliant move from Morey vis a vis the Rockets allure for free agents. |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Inverse wrote: | Darryl Morey trading CP3 to basketball purgatory in OKC will leave a very sour taste in future free agents mouths for years to come.
Same narrative we saw with Ainge this past summer.
But hey, at least he got his bag. It's a business right? |
I doubt it, same way it didn’t stop Ainge from landing Kemba this summer. |
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TheBlackMamba
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Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9057
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| BennyLava wrote: | | Inverse wrote: | Darryl Morey trading CP3 to basketball purgatory in OKC will leave a very sour taste in future free agents mouths for years to come.
Same narrative we saw with Ainge this past summer.
But hey, at least he got his bag. It's a business right? |
Dreamshake will have a very good reason as to why this is not only not true but the best thing to happen to CP3 for his career whilst also being a brilliant move from Morey vis a vis the Rockets allure for free agents. |
That would be true if there were many players left in the league who are still friends with CP3. As it stands, it seems most of the stars today dislike him outside of Lebron. |
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TheBlackMamba
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | Inverse wrote: | Darryl Morey trading CP3 to basketball purgatory in OKC will leave a very sour taste in future free agents mouths for years to come.
Same narrative we saw with Ainge this past summer.
But hey, at least he got his bag. It's a business right? |
Can we please stop pretending stuff like this matters to free agents? It might be part of the calculus, but it’s a minor one. The Clippers ethered Blake Griffin in a major way, promising him the world in their pitch to him to re-sign, complete with T-shirt’s comparing him to Ghandi and fake retiring his jersey before trading him that same season to Detroit. It was public, and they were mocked for it, and it didn’t matter one bit when Kawhi Leonard and Paul George had their chance to join the team. We paid Kobe 48 million fresh off of an Achilles tear and the Clippers did their franchise guy dirty, and none of it mattered in the end because it was a minor consideration compared to a myriad of other factors. |
Seriously. I do think the IT thing resonates more because of how he put his body on the line for that franchise, and Ainge discarded him like nothing (partially BECAUSE he damaged his body in the process). That (bleep) was cold. Agree with you in general about the idea of past treatment of stars not having as much influence on future free agency. |
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mhan00
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | Inverse wrote: | Darryl Morey trading CP3 to basketball purgatory in OKC will leave a very sour taste in future free agents mouths for years to come.
Same narrative we saw with Ainge this past summer.
But hey, at least he got his bag. It's a business right? |
Can we please stop pretending stuff like this matters to free agents? It might be part of the calculus, but it’s a minor one. The Clippers ethered Blake Griffin in a major way, promising him the world in their pitch to him to re-sign, complete with T-shirt’s comparing him to Ghandi and fake retiring his jersey before trading him that same season to Detroit. It was public, and they were mocked for it, and it didn’t matter one bit when Kawhi Leonard and Paul George had their chance to join the team. We paid Kobe 48 million fresh off of an Achilles tear and the Clippers did their franchise guy dirty, and none of it mattered in the end because it was a minor consideration compared to a myriad of other factors. |
Seriously. I do think the IT thing resonates more because of how he put his body on the line for that franchise, and Ainge discarded him like nothing (partially BECAUSE he damaged his body in the process). That (bleep) was cold. Agree with you in general about the idea of past treatment of stars not having as much influence on future free agency. |
And, like dreamshake pointed out, Ainge (bleep) IT like he did didn’t stop him from signing Kemba. It just doesn’t seem like a major consideration. |
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