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Ziggy
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12712
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 Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| LAL1947 wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: | | Wvc0925 wrote: | | LAL1947 wrote: | | For 3PT shooting back-up PG (SG?)... I'd prefer if we went for Austin Rivers rather than Seth Curry. Three reasons... Rivers is bigger and better on defense (or more capable/active, whichever)... he's shown he can lift his game in the playoffs... and most importantly it takes away from Houston. They don't have his Bird/Early-Bird rights and had him on a really low salary last year, so even if they planned to renounce him and then re-sign him at 120%, they wouldn't be able make a better offer. If we were splitting the cap among multiple players, he'd be a good get even upto 4-5m as a backup guard. |
Rivers is a poor shooter |
To me, the difference between Rivers' and Seth's shooting isn't big enough to make a difference when you consider other things... such as Rivers' size advantage and his ability to make himself more of a nuisance on defense... addition by subtraction from Houston. Anyway, all I'm saying is if we are looking at Seth, I'd prefer we looked at Rivers instead. We're talking back-up PGs here... not starting 5 players. |
Seth was literally the #1 best catch and shoot 3-point shooter in the NBA this season, hitting just a fraction below 50%. Rivers is as streaky as KCP. Rivers just isn't on Seth's level as a shooter and it's not even close. |
I never said Rivers was a better shooter. I'm not looking solely at their ability to catch and shoot... also interested in the other points brought up:
1) Rivers is bigger and a better perimeter defender.
2) Addition by subtraction from Houston.
3) Rivers lifted his game big-time in the playoffs and I'd be hoping for something similar if we make it there.
These make Rivers a better option to me than Seth. He also looked the better option from watching the GSW-Houston and GSW-Portland series. |
I was responding to the part where you said the shooting difference wasn't large enough to compensate for the other aspects of the game that Rivers brings to the table. I don't really agree with that. Seth is on a whole different tier as a shooter. It's a pretty wide gap, and would make a bigger impact next to Lebron and AD than Rivers' streaky shooting and defense. I'd rather have KCP than Rivers tbh. Just my opinion. |
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LAL1947
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2018
Posts: 1855
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | | I was responding to the part where you said the shooting difference wasn't large enough to compensate for the other aspects of the game that Rivers brings to the table. I don't really agree with that. Seth is on a whole different tier as a shooter. It's a pretty wide gap, and would make a bigger impact next to Lebron and AD than Rivers' streaky shooting and defense. I'd rather have KCP than Rivers tbh. Just my opinion. |
Kinda hard to look at their whole careers and glean something concrete, since Seth hasn't played as much in the NBA. So I'll just look at their series against a common opponent.
Curry vs GSW:
Game 1: 1 of 4 threes made, 0.25%
Game 2: 4 of 7 threes made, 0.57%
Game 3: 1 of 4 threes made, 0.25%
Game 4: 0 of 1 threes made, 0.00%
Overall = 6 of 16 = 0.375%
Rivers vs GSW:
Game 1: 4 of 6 threes made, 0.75%
Game 2: 2 of 4 threes made, 0.50%
Game 3: 2 of 5 threes made, 0.40%
Game 4: 0 of 4 threes made, 0.00%
Game 5: 2 of 3 threes made, 0.67%
Overall = 10 of 22 = 0.45%
0.45% > 0.375%, while providing better defence + switch-ability on SG.
Btw, I'm thinking something like this for the roster... and it keeps KCP.
PG: Collison, Rivers, Caruso
SG: Ross or Lamb, KCP, THT
SF: LeGramps, Bollocks
PF: AD, Kuzma, Williams
CE: Dedmon or McGee, Looney
Last edited by LAL1947 on Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:04 am; edited 3 times in total |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| If the cap jumps to let's say $112M this summer, I wonder how much it would help the Lakers. |
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Lakerchaq
Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 May 2019
Posts: 300
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| stanley johnson has been released, he is only 23 yrs old and strong defender. He might be a late bloomer and this situation might be ideal. |
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la4win
Star Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Posts: 2239
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| Lakerchaq wrote: | | stanley johnson has been released, he is only 23 yrs old and strong defender. He might be a late bloomer and this situation might be ideal. |
He should definitely be some one to get. We need some young bodies that can play D. |
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Car54
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| OC Lakerfan wrote: | | The Brow and the Bron wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | GameCock-MD wrote: | | epak wrote: | | GameCock-MD wrote: | | The Brow and the Bron wrote: | https://mobile.twitter.com/CuffsTheLegend/status/1144039479092699141
Let's get it |
I'm so confused... |
Ric Flair. Woo!
Can only mean one thing. |
Thanks...I'm even more confused now... |
Sorry, but I thought this Cuffs the Legend dude was a fraud.... |
Cuffs is connected to bron. |
Cuffs was hinting at Lebron to Cavs before he came back... Same with Lebron to Lakers. Then AD to Lakers. |
What is he predicting now?
_________________
Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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Car54
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Should've kept Hart over Kuzma. |
Umm??
Bench guy who shot below 34% from three over a guy who scores at will and can break apart defenses with ease when hot? |
you must be talking about Lebron? |
Lol
We've all seen what Kuzma can do though, last year vs the Spurs, Pistons and 76ers showed what prowess he can have as a scorer. Yes, he might not be a good defender, and for this reason I think he'll be most dangerous in a Lou Will type role off the bench, but having someone that can get buckets like him is much more important than having a 'glue guy' who plays average defense and scores 7 points a game |
Factual
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Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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Lakerchaq
Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 May 2019
Posts: 300
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:04 am Post subject: |
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Philly should try to flip Butler for McCollum
Lillard
Butler
Harkless
Aminu
Nurkic
McColum
Redick
Simmons
Harris
Embidd |
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UKUGA
Starting Rotation
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 703
Location: 22033
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | OC Lakerfan wrote: | | The Brow and the Bron wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | GameCock-MD wrote: | | epak wrote: | | GameCock-MD wrote: | | The Brow and the Bron wrote: | https://mobile.twitter.com/CuffsTheLegend/status/1144039479092699141
Let's get it |
I'm so confused... |
Ric Flair. Woo!
Can only mean one thing. |
Thanks...I'm even more confused now... |
Sorry, but I thought this Cuffs the Legend dude was a fraud.... |
Cuffs is connected to bron. |
Cuffs was hinting at Lebron to Cavs before he came back... Same with Lebron to Lakers. Then AD to Lakers. |
What is he predicting now? |
He said that Melo's getting a ring this year. |
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Car54
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| GameCock-MD wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | Kuzma>>>Hart all day every day. (bleep) is not even close
Hart hasn't been able to stay healthy and has never shown the flashes of brilliance that Kuzma has. It's crazy that Kuzma has now become the most underrated player on LG. How many guys in their 2nd season have gone off for 40+ points in only 3 quarters? |
Brandon Jennings? |
Pre-Achilles Jennings would have been nice in this era. More valuable than Josh Hart. Are we even watching the same players? Kuzma is so much more talented than Hart and stays healthy too. |
I think Kuz's talent isn't particularly valuable most nights unless he shoots, rebounds, and/or defends better. But he does get hot now and then. Hart isn't great shakes, but he's more useful on the Lakers current roster.
I will say that bad GMs will likely overvalue Kuz, so his inflated value could return a player who fits better on the current roster and/or has more upside than Kuz. |
I am very bullish on Kuz regaining that stroke this season and hitting an even more efficient level of scoring with AD/Bron. Better coach and scheme, working hard with a shooting coach, desire to be great, and better teammates all have me optimistic on Kuz being a legit 4th option on our title team. The Josh Hart's are easier to find than Kuzma's imo |
I don't disagree with your last sentence, but Josh Hart's archetype is more valuable than Kuz's archetype on winning teams, imo. |
Kuzma is a dime a dozen scorer...Hart is a glue guy.
If both reach their potential, Hart's skillset will be more valuable to contenders, IMHO.
Hart's not a bad defender...neither is KCP. Both gamble a lot and in our scheme last year, they didn't have immediate help to slow down their man enough to recover. In the right scheme, Hart and KCP are bulldogs... |
Kuzma a dime a dozen? You don’t know (bleep)
_________________
Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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alleyoop
Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 3859
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:21 am Post subject: |
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If we strike out on a max, I love the idea of taking on PJ Tucker and a second. An absolute hustler, great defensively and can shoot. The exact type of player we need to have in order to win chips
A combination of Tucker, Collison, Ross, Matthews and McGee would be a great offseason if we go down the depth route
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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16137
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| LAL1947 wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | I was responding to the part where you said the shooting difference wasn't large enough to compensate for the other aspects of the game that Rivers brings to the table. I don't really agree with that. Seth is on a whole different tier as a shooter. It's a pretty wide gap, and would make a bigger impact next to Lebron and AD than Rivers' streaky shooting and defense. I'd rather have KCP than Rivers tbh. Just my opinion. |
Kinda hard to look at their whole careers and glean something concrete, since Seth hasn't played as much in the NBA. So I'll just look at their series against a common opponent.
Curry vs GSW:
Game 1: 1 of 4 threes made, 0.25%
Game 2: 4 of 7 threes made, 0.57%
Game 3: 1 of 4 threes made, 0.25%
Game 4: 0 of 1 threes made, 0.00%
Overall = 6 of 16 = 0.375%
Rivers vs GSW:
Game 1: 4 of 6 threes made, 0.75%
Game 2: 2 of 4 threes made, 0.50%
Game 3: 2 of 5 threes made, 0.40%
Game 4: 0 of 4 threes made, 0.00%
Game 5: 2 of 3 threes made, 0.67%
Overall = 10 of 22 = 0.45%
0.45% > 0.375%, while providing better defence + switch-ability on SG.
Btw, I'm thinking something like this for the roster... and it keeps KCP.
PG: Collison, Rivers, Caruso
SG: Ross or Lamb, KCP, THT
SF: LeGramps, Bollocks
PF: AD, Kuzma, Williams
CE: Dedmon or McGee, Looney |
Logic - I'm not going to look at a bigger subset (since Seth hasn't played as much in the NBA)
Instead, I'll draw my conclusion from a much smaller subset (4-5 game series)
Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25078
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| UKUGA wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | OC Lakerfan wrote: | | The Brow and the Bron wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | GameCock-MD wrote: | | epak wrote: | | GameCock-MD wrote: | | The Brow and the Bron wrote: | https://mobile.twitter.com/CuffsTheLegend/status/1144039479092699141
Let's get it |
I'm so confused... |
Ric Flair. Woo!
Can only mean one thing. |
Thanks...I'm even more confused now... |
Sorry, but I thought this Cuffs the Legend dude was a fraud.... |
Cuffs is connected to bron. |
Cuffs was hinting at Lebron to Cavs before he came back... Same with Lebron to Lakers. Then AD to Lakers. |
What is he predicting now? |
He said that Melo's getting a ring this year. |
Thought he and Lala married already |
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Super Mega Team
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 3877
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | OC Lakerfan wrote: | | The Brow and the Bron wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | GameCock-MD wrote: | | epak wrote: | | GameCock-MD wrote: | | The Brow and the Bron wrote: | https://mobile.twitter.com/CuffsTheLegend/status/1144039479092699141
Let's get it |
I'm so confused... |
Ric Flair. Woo!
Can only mean one thing. |
Thanks...I'm even more confused now... |
Sorry, but I thought this Cuffs the Legend dude was a fraud.... |
Cuffs is connected to bron. |
Cuffs was hinting at Lebron to Cavs before he came back... Same with Lebron to Lakers. Then AD to Lakers. |
What is he predicting now? |
He said Klaw 🖐🏼 and Rondo. |
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oldschool32
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 20032
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| la4win wrote: | | Lakerchaq wrote: | | stanley johnson has been released, he is only 23 yrs old and strong defender. He might be a late bloomer and this situation might be ideal. |
He should definitely be some one to get. We need some young bodies that can play D. |
Johnson would be a nice get, but probably more of someone to develop rather than count on every game at this point. If he can learn to hit corner 3's he'll be a great fit.
_________________
"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up."-The Greatest |
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lakerican
Star Player
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 3786
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:42 am Post subject: |
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Curry vs Rivers??
Why no signing BOTH. They are family now. |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| la4win wrote: | | Lakerchaq wrote: | | stanley johnson has been released, he is only 23 yrs old and strong defender. He might be a late bloomer and this situation might be ideal. |
He should definitely be some one to get. We need some young bodies that can play D. |
He’s going to try to get paid.
Decent option if he has no suitors. |
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alleyoop
Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 3859
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:51 am Post subject: |
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Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
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3m
All-Star Kemba Walker and the Charlotte Hornets have sizable gaps and stalemate in talks so far, opening pathway for competitors in Boston, New York and Dallas, league sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
Kemba to Boston or New York, I reckon
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vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
3m
All-Star Kemba Walker and the Charlotte Hornets have sizable gaps and stalemate in talks so far, opening pathway for competitors in Boston, New York and Dallas, league sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
Kemba to Boston or New York, I reckon |
How much cap space does Dallas have? Would be interesting to see him there. |
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KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:54 am Post subject: |
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| I wonder why they have a stalemate.. maybe it’s cuz Kemba himself said he’d take a paycut 2 weeks ago 😂 |
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alleyoop
Star Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 3859
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
3m
All-Star Kemba Walker and the Charlotte Hornets have sizable gaps and stalemate in talks so far, opening pathway for competitors in Boston, New York and Dallas, league sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
Kemba to Boston or New York, I reckon |
How much cap space does Dallas have? Would be interesting to see him there. |
Isn’t Doncic basically the point guard in Dallas? Not sure about that fit, although it could be fun
Woj just said Boston the front runner, so probably a moot point
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#18 next... |
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vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
3m
All-Star Kemba Walker and the Charlotte Hornets have sizable gaps and stalemate in talks so far, opening pathway for competitors in Boston, New York and Dallas, league sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
Kemba to Boston or New York, I reckon |
How much cap space does Dallas have? Would be interesting to see him there. |
Isn’t Doncic basically the point guard in Dallas? Not sure about that fit, although it could be fun
Woj just said Boston the front runner, so probably a moot point |
In Woj's world, the Celtics and Clippers are front runners for everyone. |
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TheGodfather
Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Jun 2019
Posts: 186
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| LAL1947 wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | I was responding to the part where you said the shooting difference wasn't large enough to compensate for the other aspects of the game that Rivers brings to the table. I don't really agree with that. Seth is on a whole different tier as a shooter. It's a pretty wide gap, and would make a bigger impact next to Lebron and AD than Rivers' streaky shooting and defense. I'd rather have KCP than Rivers tbh. Just my opinion. |
Kinda hard to look at their whole careers and glean something concrete, since Seth hasn't played as much in the NBA. So I'll just look at their series against a common opponent.
Curry vs GSW:
Game 1: 1 of 4 threes made, 0.25%
Game 2: 4 of 7 threes made, 0.57%
Game 3: 1 of 4 threes made, 0.25%
Game 4: 0 of 1 threes made, 0.00%
Overall = 6 of 16 = 0.375%
Rivers vs GSW:
Game 1: 4 of 6 threes made, 0.75%
Game 2: 2 of 4 threes made, 0.50%
Game 3: 2 of 5 threes made, 0.40%
Game 4: 0 of 4 threes made, 0.00%
Game 5: 2 of 3 threes made, 0.67%
Overall = 10 of 22 = 0.45%
0.45% > 0.375%, while providing better defence + switch-ability on SG.
Btw, I'm thinking something like this for the roster... and it keeps KCP.
PG: Collison, Rivers, Caruso
SG: Ross or Lamb, KCP, THT
SF: LeGramps, Bollocks
PF: AD, Kuzma, Williams
CE: Dedmon or McGee, Looney |
You cannot make that call from ONE series. Just can't. I don't think
there is any question that Seth is the better shooter.
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Kwahi and Paul...Public Enemy #1 |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Put this in the DLO thread but it applies here too:
Brogdon seems to be the soup de jour. But folks want to point out all the warts with DLO (that's fair if done so in a non-agenda driven manner). But how about the warts with signing Brogdon to a 27m/year level deal?
1. Lakers would hold up their cap space for possibly 8 days (6 days of moratorium + 2 days of matching). So there is no Plan B if the Bucks string us along for 8 days. We lose our Brodgon match, we likely can't pursue any of the top FAs, even the Danny Greens of FA are now gone. In short, it would be an unmitigated disaster. Bucks have no reason to move on from Brogdon. Unlike the Nets who are ostensibly trading for KD/Kyrie, the Bucks would be salary capped and have a huge Brogdon sized hole in their team. I put it at a near 99% certainty that he will be re-signed. Chasing Brogdon via RFA might be one of the most suicidal moves for the Lakers to take. RFA is usually a fool's errand for top players as the team can string you along and make you basically piss away your cap space.
2. Brogdon is a very nice role player. But he's also over 3 years older than DLO. What do you think a 26 year old DLO just entering his prime will look like? I'd actually want to break up that 27m instead of spending it on Brogdon if it came down to no top FAs (including DLO) coming to the Lakers.
3. Brogdon's durability is a concern. Missed 18 games this year, and 34 games the year before. He had a nasty torn left quadriceps tendon that had him out for months and then this year, plantar fascia issues. He will be required to be a steady and durable player if we are devoting that much cap space to him and I'm not sure he can do it.
Both DLO and Brogdon are nice players. But I have more confidence that DLO is a better bet to:
1. actually be an unrestricted FA, therefore we don't waste 8 days waiting for the Bucks to match him.
2. be able to grow as one of the faces of the Lakers once LBJ is gone with AD.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| #savethekids wrote: | Kobe 81 point game is on NBA tv right now
Smush,kwame,mihm ,l.o. and Kobe. |
Phil should have let him go for 90. 
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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