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LAL1947
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2018
Posts: 1855
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 Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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Kawhi - 100%
Butler - 0%
Irving - 0%
Kemba - 0%
Klay - 0%
KD - 0% |
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Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| laker50 wrote: | Note that AD did not not even make the NBA third team.
He is not a difference maker. |
Note that AD was first-team all-NBA the last three years. This year, he played only 56 games. |
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anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12193
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe I am in the minority here but just getting Butler doesn't really make this team much better. He's good but he's not a really a game changer, in my opinion. Rather try and trade for Beal, sign Middleton, go after Kyrie. I just like the only possibility being Butler. Yuck. I am just not a fan of his..... |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | Shut the (bleep) up!! In what world is 18.7ppg 5.5rpg 2.5apg 45%fg 75%ft 3.6FTA a regression from 16ppg 6.3rpg 1.8apg 45%fg 70%ft 2.7FTA ??? Outside of rebounds and 3pt % he improved everywhere else or stayed the same. The rebounds can be explained because he played with Lebron and McGee. Always on here with the (bleep) takes |
| nzahir wrote: | | ONCE AGAIN SOME OF YOU GUYS POST THE DUMBEST (bleep) IN THE WORLD |
Wow, the board is running a bit angry today. |
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Japago
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Posts: 1315
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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I can see the argument for Kemba over Jimmy if the Lakers don't want to touch the core. The shooting would be awful. Getting good shooting role players can only take you so far when the guys who will play the majority of the minutes can't shoot. I think the core has a better shot of complimenting a defensive deficiency than a shooting deficiency.
Jimmy is definitely the better overall player though. And I would be willing to move one of the young core for more shooting. It remains to be seen if the team is willing to trade any of the young core for player(s) who aren't Anthony Davis. |
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Robster8989
Star Player
Joined: 30 Dec 2014
Posts: 1025
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | Maybe I am in the minority here but just getting Butler doesn't really make this team much better. He's good but he's not a really a game changer, in my opinion. Rather try and trade for Beal, sign Middleton, go after Kyrie. I just like the only possibility being Butler. Yuck. I am just not a fan of his..... |
I'm a fan of his playing, but I do understand the reservations.
Fit being the main issue. (A shooter like Klay is ideal IMO).
Also Butler's age/mileage is concerning (as are the attitude issues).
I'm just trying to spur conversation on what team we could assemble if he is the guy we get.
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King Randle
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 7313
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | Maybe I am in the minority here but just getting Butler doesn't really make this team much better. He's good but he's not a really a game changer, in my opinion. Rather try and trade for Beal, sign Middleton, go after Kyrie. I just like the only possibility being Butler. Yuck. I am just not a fan of his..... |
I think that’s the issue....you’re not a fan of his. The guy plays hard...gives it his all on the defensive end, has a good midrange game and has a nasty streak. Trading for Beal you’re giving up the young talent again...giving up early on Ingram, Ball the #4. Look at Giannis and Siakam...took them 4 years to get here. Plus...you’re hoping we sign Kyrie...which isn’t s gimme...NY, Brooklyn are ahead of us for his destination |
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anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12193
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | Maybe I am in the minority here but just getting Butler doesn't really make this team much better. He's good but he's not a really a game changer, in my opinion. Rather try and trade for Beal, sign Middleton, go after Kyrie. I just like the only possibility being Butler. Yuck. I am just not a fan of his..... |
I think that’s the issue....you’re not a fan of his. The guy plays hard...gives it his all on the defensive end, has a good midrange game and has a nasty streak. Trading for Beal you’re giving up the young talent again...giving up early on Ingram, Ball the #4. Look at Giannis and Siakam...took them 4 years to get here. Plus...you’re hoping we sign Kyrie...which isn’t s gimme...NY, Brooklyn are ahead of us for his destination |
True, I don't mean he sucks. Isn't there a worry with his age, injury history and being a major malcontent?
I am ok with him, if this is all the Lakers FO can pull off. Though, I would rather get a Brook Lopez back + some outside shooters. I think with Butler, we don't really increase our shooting. The Lakers sucked at shooting this year. I mean, I went to only a handful of games this past season but watched almost every game and they missed so many outside, wide open, shots. Got to improve shooting!!! |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Robster8989 wrote: | | -Sign Jav with the room (or do you prefer say Brook? And are either realistic with the room?) |
For a lot of veterans, the free agent process is like a game of musical chairs. Nobody is going to take the room exception, much less a vet min contract, if they think they can find a chair. Just like last year, we would be looking at guys who didn't find a chair or who don't believe they can find a chair. Looking at it with a different metaphor, we'll be be rumaging around in the clearance bin, looking for bargains. We don't have any meaningful control over who is in the bin.
So if someone else makes an attractive offer to McGee or whoever else you'd like to have, there's not much we can do about it except hope that they want to stay in LA (knowing that they will be a trade chip as soon as they become tradeable). |
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nzahir
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jan 2019
Posts: 338
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | Shut the (bleep) up!! In what world is 18.7ppg 5.5rpg 2.5apg 45%fg 75%ft 3.6FTA a regression from 16ppg 6.3rpg 1.8apg 45%fg 70%ft 2.7FTA ??? Outside of rebounds and 3pt % he improved everywhere else or stayed the same. The rebounds can be explained because he played with Lebron and McGee. Always on here with the (bleep) takes |
| nzahir wrote: | | ONCE AGAIN SOME OF YOU GUYS POST THE DUMBEST (bleep) IN THE WORLD |
Wow, the board is running a bit angry today. |
Na Im constantly pissed at some of these people with no brain that don't even understand the basics of the cap and throw (bleep) out there without even looking back 1 page just to see someone explaining why their trade can't work |
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Beir32
Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Butler isn't a flashy exciting player and that makes him underrated guy among the fans. He plays great defense, gives you a bit of everything on offense and brings an attitude that we haven't seen around here since Kobe. He would definitely make this team better.
Now whether or not you wanna give him the money is an entirely different conversation. |
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King Randle
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 7313
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | Maybe I am in the minority here but just getting Butler doesn't really make this team much better. He's good but he's not a really a game changer, in my opinion. Rather try and trade for Beal, sign Middleton, go after Kyrie. I just like the only possibility being Butler. Yuck. I am just not a fan of his..... |
I think that’s the issue....you’re not a fan of his. The guy plays hard...gives it his all on the defensive end, has a good midrange game and has a nasty streak. Trading for Beal you’re giving up the young talent again...giving up early on Ingram, Ball the #4. Look at Giannis and Siakam...took them 4 years to get here. Plus...you’re hoping we sign Kyrie...which isn’t s gimme...NY, Brooklyn are ahead of us for his destination |
True, I don't mean he sucks. Isn't there a worry with his age, injury history and being a major malcontent?
I am ok with him, if this is all the Lakers FO can pull off. Though, I would rather get a Brook Lopez back + some outside shooters. I think with Butler, we don't really increase our shooting. The Lakers sucked at shooting this year. I mean, I went to only a handful of games this past season but watched almost every game and they missed so many outside, wide open, shots. Got to improve shooting!!! |
Valid points... if I still think you can improve the shooting even with Butler. I don’t think Rondo, Chandler, Stevenson, Williams are coming back so they can focus on shooters on at least 2 of those spots. I’m thinking our 4th pick will be able to shoot. And I have to believe after another summer Kuz, BI and Ball and Hart should be somewhat better. |
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Robster8989
Star Player
Joined: 30 Dec 2014
Posts: 1025
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Beir32 wrote: | Butler isn't a flashy exciting player and that makes him underrated guy among the fans. He plays great defense, gives you a bit of everything on offense and brings an attitude that we haven't seen around here since Kobe. He would definitely make this team better.
Now whether or not you wanna give him the money is an entirely different conversation. |
Agreed.
KD and Klay are not coming.
Kawhi would be the best option but the chance is low IMO.
I still think Kemba is also a longshot.
Kyrie seems possible, has great skill, but some concerns.
Butler seems very possible, has skill, and some concerns.
I don't think we would be brave enough to pass on Kyrie or Butler is they would come, so I think it's interesting to build a hypothetical team around them.
Moving up to #4 in the draft did cost us a bit of cap space we thought we would have to sign another, non vet min player.
So no matter what max we sign, we have the pick, the room and vet mins to round out the roster.
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West Point '88
UCLA '92
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anth2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12193
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | anth2000 wrote: | | Maybe I am in the minority here but just getting Butler doesn't really make this team much better. He's good but he's not a really a game changer, in my opinion. Rather try and trade for Beal, sign Middleton, go after Kyrie. I just like the only possibility being Butler. Yuck. I am just not a fan of his..... |
I think that’s the issue....you’re not a fan of his. The guy plays hard...gives it his all on the defensive end, has a good midrange game and has a nasty streak. Trading for Beal you’re giving up the young talent again...giving up early on Ingram, Ball the #4. Look at Giannis and Siakam...took them 4 years to get here. Plus...you’re hoping we sign Kyrie...which isn’t s gimme...NY, Brooklyn are ahead of us for his destination |
True, I don't mean he sucks. Isn't there a worry with his age, injury history and being a major malcontent?
I am ok with him, if this is all the Lakers FO can pull off. Though, I would rather get a Brook Lopez back + some outside shooters. I think with Butler, we don't really increase our shooting. The Lakers sucked at shooting this year. I mean, I went to only a handful of games this past season but watched almost every game and they missed so many outside, wide open, shots. Got to improve shooting!!! |
Valid points... if I still think you can improve the shooting even with Butler. I don’t think Rondo, Chandler, Stevenson, Williams are coming back so they can focus on shooters on at least 2 of those spots. I’m thinking our 4th pick will be able to shoot. And I have to believe after another summer Kuz, BI and Ball and Hart should be somewhat better. |
Agreed. I guess I am ok with Butler if we need to sign someone. A healthy Lonzo and Ingram will make a huge difference. I am hoping both come into camp stronger and healthier. I wish we could get Leonard. Now that dude is a game changer. |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26386
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Beir32 wrote: | Butler isn't a flashy exciting player and that makes him underrated guy among the fans. He plays great defense, gives you a bit of everything on offense and brings an attitude that we haven't seen around here since Kobe. He would definitely make this team better.
Now whether or not you wanna give him the money is an entirely different conversation. |
I think it's the fact he's a headcase and a locker room problem wherever he goes that has people worried.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | Maybe I am in the minority here but just getting Butler doesn't really make this team much better. He's good but he's not a really a game changer, in my opinion. Rather try and trade for Beal, sign Middleton, go after Kyrie. I just like the only possibility being Butler. Yuck. I am just not a fan of his..... |
You aren't alone. Chemistry matters. But we are all-in on the max FA strategy. If all of the other options dry up, we've got to do it. The alternatives are (1) punting and hoping that Davis is an option next summer, or (2) trying to sign some third tier pieces like Vucevic, Harris, or whoever else is available. Some people would be okay with those alternatives, but the fan base as a whole would be marching on the front office with torches and pitchforks. We would be even more of a laughingstock than we are now. |
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Super Mega Team
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Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 3877
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Butler was great for Philly this year. They were a bounce away from going to OT and very possibility could of made the NBA Finals. He was the go to scorer against the Raptors and hitting a ton of big shots for them. He came up big. I wouldn’t mind having him if we were able to trade for AD as well. |
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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
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Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Butler has been a consistently great player for a long time. Had been All-NBA in each of the previous two seasons before basically eliminating himself from that discussion this year because he forced his way out of Minnesota early in the year. You saw what type of player he really is in the playoffs. Yes, he's not a great 3-point shooter, but his outstanding FT % helps to mitigate that; his TS % was .571 this season and that is the same as Kyrie Irving's career mark. (And Kyrie has been higher than that lately, but so had Butler over the past couple of seasons.) Now add in the defense, and I don't think there's any question that he's a very valuable player.
It's a fair question to wonder how effective he will be in the third and fourth years of his contract, but he's a legit All-Star. Up until this year, he was more highly-regarded than Paul George, and it's worth noting that even in an MVP-finalist season, PG only outpaced Butler in TS % by a margin of .583 to .571. Butler is very much legit. |
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anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12193
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| OC Lakerfan wrote: | | Butler was great for Philly this year. They were a bounce away from going to OT and very possibility could of made the NBA Finals. He was the go to scorer against the Raptors and hitting a ton of big shots for them. He came up big. I wouldn’t mind having him if we were able to trade for AD as well. |
True, but I think they underachieved because their chemistry sucked. I think Butler was a reason for some of that. At least that's what I thought I had read... |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | Butler isn't a flashy exciting player and that makes him underrated guy among the fans. He plays great defense, gives you a bit of everything on offense and brings an attitude that we haven't seen around here since Kobe. He would definitely make this team better.
Now whether or not you wanna give him the money is an entirely different conversation. |
I think it's the fact he's a headcase and a locker room problem wherever he goes that has people worried. |
He also tends to be his best on ball and not a very good floor spacer so I'd be worried the half-court offense would bogged down into inefficient turn taking between Lebron, Butler, and Ingram against teams packing it in the paint. If the goal is to sign Butler and trade the yoots for AD as a 3&D big man, I could see it working well.
But Butler would be below Kyrie and Kemba on my FA list if my goal was to keep the youth because Kyrie and Kemba are better off-ball shooters (or had been, I haven't checked the numbers to end this season) and better fits with Zo/Ingram, imo.
And also Butler is a massive, super corny jagoff.
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Super Mega Team
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Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 3877
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| anth2000 wrote: | | OC Lakerfan wrote: | | Butler was great for Philly this year. They were a bounce away from going to OT and very possibility could of made the NBA Finals. He was the go to scorer against the Raptors and hitting a ton of big shots for them. He came up big. I wouldn’t mind having him if we were able to trade for AD as well. |
True, but I think they underachieved because their chemistry sucked. I think Butler was a reason for some of that. |
I think they did pretty well considering they added all those players late in the year. Not having Mike Scott hurt their depth and Embiid sickness + knee player a factor as well. Ben Simmons can’t hit a jumpshot doesn’t get any blame? I don’t know why you would put it on Jimmy.
Sure I would rather have any of the “K’s” but if we whiff on those other guys, I’d think long and hard about signing him. Maybe he doesn’t get. 4 year max contract and signs a 1+1, who knows. |
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Robster8989
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Joined: 30 Dec 2014
Posts: 1025
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | Butler has been a consistently great player for a long time. Had been All-NBA in each of the previous two seasons before basically eliminating himself from that discussion this year because he forced his way out of Minnesota early in the year. You saw what type of player he really is in the playoffs. Yes, he's not a great 3-point shooter, but his outstanding FT % helps to mitigate that; his TS % was .571 this season and that is the same as Kyrie Irving's career mark. (And Kyrie has been higher than that lately, but so had Butler over the past couple of seasons.) Now add in the defense, and I don't think there's any question that he's a very valuable player.
It's a fair question to wonder how effective he will be in the third and fourth years of his contract, but he's a legit All-Star. Up until this year, he was more highly-regarded than Paul George, and it's worth noting that even in an MVP-finalist season, PG only outpaced Butler in TS % by a margin of .583 to .571. Butler is very much legit. |
Agreed. I wouldn't be upset if we signed buckets.
He was almost 35% from 3, and his FT shooting is exceptional which we desperately need. He fits the transition game too, and his D is very good.
Ingram was actually shooting 3's much better before his injury (just needs to shoot more of them).
Kuz was good year 1, then poor last year, but if he can get back above 35% it would be a great help.
Zo I could also see getting to 35%, so if we added a 5 who could shoot, like Brook or Dedmon, we'd improve vastly in that department.
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King Randle
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Posts: 7313
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Just to be fair Butler has been shooting .350 from 3 point land the last 4 years...Kawhi is a .380 3 point shooter.... not a massive difference. Of course Kawhi is younger and better but Butler would not be a bad signing. |
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Beir32
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Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | Butler isn't a flashy exciting player and that makes him underrated guy among the fans. He plays great defense, gives you a bit of everything on offense and brings an attitude that we haven't seen around here since Kobe. He would definitely make this team better.
Now whether or not you wanna give him the money is an entirely different conversation. |
I think it's the fact he's a headcase and a locker room problem wherever he goes that has people worried. |
He also tends to be his best on ball and not a very good floor spacer so I'd be worried the half-court offense would bogged down into inefficient turn taking between Lebron, Butler, and Ingram against teams packing it in the paint. If the goal is to sign Butler and trade the yoots for AD as a 3&D big man, I could see it working well.
But Butler would be below Kyrie and Kemba on my FA list if my goal was to keep the youth because Kyrie and Kemba are better off-ball shooters (or had been, I haven't checked the numbers to end this season) and better fits with Zo/Ingram, imo.
And also Butler is a massive, super corny jagoff. |
I approve of this message. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Beir32 wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Beir32 wrote: | Butler isn't a flashy exciting player and that makes him underrated guy among the fans. He plays great defense, gives you a bit of everything on offense and brings an attitude that we haven't seen around here since Kobe. He would definitely make this team better.
Now whether or not you wanna give him the money is an entirely different conversation. |
I think it's the fact he's a headcase and a locker room problem wherever he goes that has people worried. |
He also tends to be his best on ball and not a very good floor spacer so I'd be worried the half-court offense would bogged down into inefficient turn taking between Lebron, Butler, and Ingram against teams packing it in the paint. If the goal is to sign Butler and trade the yoots for AD as a 3&D big man, I could see it working well.
But Butler would be below Kyrie and Kemba on my FA list if my goal was to keep the youth because Kyrie and Kemba are better off-ball shooters (or had been, I haven't checked the numbers to end this season) and better fits with Zo/Ingram, imo.
And also Butler is a massive, super corny jagoff. |
I approve of this message. |
The only positive part of his personality would be how much other teams' fanbases will hate him.
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