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Joe Pesci
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 Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Meat, Davis never had a team as good as Garnett's best Minnesota teams.
If you put Davis on that team with Szczerbiak, Peeler, Brandon, and Nesterovic, they'd be as good.
I know you think Davis is a loser, a d you have your data to back that up, but agan, you have to factor in context.
Embid would lose on the Pelicans too. Is Embid a loser?
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saetarubia
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | @_Andrew_Lopez
David Griffin on Anthony Davis: "We have a long successful history with Klutch Sports. Rich Paul and I have spoke about Anthony. We are both excited about what we could potentially build here." |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| saetarubia wrote: | | Quote: | @_Andrew_Lopez
David Griffin on Anthony Davis: "We have a long successful history with Klutch Sports. Rich Paul and I have spoke about Anthony. We are both excited about what we could potentially build here." |
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At least he won’t be traded to Boston. |
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:31 am Post subject: |
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James - 40m
Davis - 35m
Ingram - 20m
Ball - 11m
Deng - 5m
(8) min capholds - 7m
118 million
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | Meat, Davis never had a team as good as Garnett's best Minnesota teams.
If you put Davis on that team with Szczerbiak, Peeler, Brandon, and Nesterovic, they'd be as good.
I know you think Davis is a loser, a d you have your data to back that up, but agan, you have to factor in context.
Embid would lose on the Pelicans too. Is Embid a loser? |
What happened to Sprewell?
Anyway, I would argue KG would have less value as a player now than he did 15 years ago and that AD would have more value in his prime 15 years ago than he does now.
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Texas_Pete
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Stumpy25
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Joined: 27 Oct 2016
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| saetarubia wrote: | | Quote: | @_Andrew_Lopez
David Griffin on Anthony Davis: "We have a long successful history with Klutch Sports. Rich Paul and I have spoke about Anthony. We are both excited about what we could potentially build here." |
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Not as good a relationship as LBJ with AD. |
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Practice
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Davis staying with the Pelicans would really hurt the Celtics lol. |
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nzahir
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:10 am Post subject: |
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For you guys who think AD isn’t. 2nd option, who is in your top 10 today?
Lebron, AD, one of young 3, and some cap space is enough |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | In no real order: Durant, Lebron, Curry, Harden, Kawhi, and Giannis in a tier, and then I lump AD in with Embiid, Lillard, Kyrie, Jokic, and maybe PG13. So that's a rough top 12.
But what I was getting at is that AD's value on a great team would be maximized as a play finisher and defender rather than as someone you run your offense through in the mid-post possession after possession. So that Damian Lillard has much more value as the independent engine of my offense in the playoffs whereas Davis is by dint of his skillset the more dependent player. Giannis gets around that by having sufficient guard skill on a team constructed well around him to be a de facto lead guard. Davis hasn't displayed that skillset and is older.
Si I think you need to pair him with Lebron AND another creator like Jrue Holiday to have a chance at beating the Warriors. But the Lakers won't have the resources necessary to add that caliber of player after trading their assets and part of their cap space for Davis who becomes more of an expensive luxury when the Lakers desperately need another primary initiator like Kawhi or Kyrie unless BI/Lonzo somehow develop into it asap. |
I'm not sure that Lebron is in that top tier any more. But never mind that.
I agree with what you're saying about Davis. All you need to do is look at Bosh and Love to see how this works. By itself, Lebron + Davis is not a championship contention formula. It would require Ball or Ingram to make a leap and stay healthy. To maximize a player like Davis, you have to build your offense around him. That will never happen with Lebron on the roster. |
I also don't believe in post-centric offenses anymore. |
I think a post-centric offense could dominate in the NBA, provided that (1) you could find some physical guys who really know how to score in the post and who can make free throws, (2) you could find a coach who could teach his perimeters guys to make post-entry passes, and (3) you could get a couple dead-eye spot up shooters to lurk on the perimeter and wait for the post guys to pitch the ball out to them. The first two would be difficult in this day and age. |
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epak
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | Meat, Davis never had a team as good as Garnett's best Minnesota teams.
If you put Davis on that team with Szczerbiak, Peeler, Brandon, and Nesterovic, they'd be as good.
I know you think Davis is a loser, a d you have your data to back that up, but agan, you have to factor in context.
Embid would lose on the Pelicans too. Is Embid a loser? |
What happened to Sprewell?
Anyway, I would argue KG would have less value as a player now than he did 15 years ago and that AD would have more value in his prime 15 years ago than he does now. |
I'd agree.
But then again, who'd want AD shooting 3s back then.
And perhaps KG would be bombing from 3 today? |
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The Juggernaut
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | Meat, Davis never had a team as good as Garnett's best Minnesota teams.
If you put Davis on that team with Szczerbiak, Peeler, Brandon, and Nesterovic, they'd be as good.
I know you think Davis is a loser, a d you have your data to back that up, but agan, you have to factor in context.
Embid would lose on the Pelicans too. Is Embid a loser? |
What happened to Sprewell?
Anyway, I would argue KG would have less value as a player now than he did 15 years ago and that AD would have more value in his prime 15 years ago than he does now. |
I'd agree.
But then again, who'd want AD shooting 3s back then.
And perhaps KG would be bombing from 3 today? |
KG would be the best center in the league in today's league. He'd be 2nd best passer, 2nd best rebounder, best defender, and could score on the perimeter and run the floor. Most of the great PFs of 15-20 years ago would be great centers in today's game imo. |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | Meat, Davis never had a team as good as Garnett's best Minnesota teams.
If you put Davis on that team with Szczerbiak, Peeler, Brandon, and Nesterovic, they'd be as good.
I know you think Davis is a loser, a d you have your data to back that up, but agan, you have to factor in context.
Embid would lose on the Pelicans too. Is Embid a loser? |
Loser is a harsh way to characterize how I feel about AD.
I actually like the guy both as a player and a person
He's someone I'd love to be the face of our team.
I like him better than Kobe in terms of his personality.
I like him better than Embiid in terms of personality.
But health issues aside... I think Embiid is more of a winner than AD. He's got more of that edge and swagger.
If AD still has it... it's been laying dormant for 7 years.
Maybe if you put him on a Popovich team... then he might win.
But we are quite far from that at this point. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:48 am Post subject: |
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People forget AD's defensive impact. Man, he's a really versatile defender.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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I think Giannis is the only player one could make an argument for to trade
BI/Zo/Kuzma/11 plus filler.
And as much as I love Giannis... even that seems high unless Ingram never recovers.
Look at all the historic trades... the only time that many pieces have been traded is for Kareem
Kareem won a title in his second year... the Bucks improved 29 games in Kareem's first year.
The Pelicans didn't improve at all when AD joined them
Signing AD in 2020... Absolute no brainer
Trading two of three core pieces... Understandable
Trading all of them... Not worth it imo. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | I think Giannis is the only player one could make an argument for to trade
BI/Zo/Kuzma/11 plus filler.
And as much as I love Giannis... even that seems high unless Ingram never recovers.
Look at all the historic trades... the only time that many pieces have been traded is for Kareem
Kareem won a title in his second year... the Bucks improved 29 games in Kareem's first year.
The Pelicans didn't improve at all when AD joined them
Signing AD in 2020... Absolute no brainer
Trading two of three core pieces... Understandable
Trading all of them... Not worth it imo. |
Um. Giannis is a no brainer given his age and MVP level right now. Heck, I'd give up the Laker Girls too. 
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YSong
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | I think Giannis is the only player one could make an argument for to trade
BI/Zo/Kuzma/11 plus filler.
And as much as I love Giannis... even that seems high unless Ingram never recovers.
Look at all the historic trades... the only time that many pieces have been traded is for Kareem
Kareem won a title in his second year... the Bucks improved 29 games in Kareem's first year.
The Pelicans didn't improve at all when AD joined them
Signing AD in 2020... Absolute no brainer
Trading two of three core pieces... Understandable
Trading all of them... Not worth it imo. |
Talk about overrating our guys  |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | I think Giannis is the only player one could make an argument for to trade
BI/Zo/Kuzma/11 plus filler.
And as much as I love Giannis... even that seems high unless Ingram never recovers.
Look at all the historic trades... the only time that many pieces have been traded is for Kareem
Kareem won a title in his second year... the Bucks improved 29 games in Kareem's first year.
The Pelicans didn't improve at all when AD joined them
Signing AD in 2020... Absolute no brainer
Trading two of three core pieces... Understandable
Trading all of them... Not worth it imo. |
Um. Giannis is a no brainer given his age and MVP level right now. Heck, I'd give up the Laker Girls too. |
For the Giannis trade to be a no brainer... Ingram and Ball would have stall out where they are and never improve past 21. Kuzma would never regain his outside shot.
If Ingram and Ball improve significantly... if Kuzma regains his shot... it's no longer a no brainer.
If Kuz and BI become low twenties scorers... Lonzo becomes an elite playmaker and defender... it's a heavy price to pay for Giannis.
More understandable than giving them up for AD... but I don't think it's a no brainer.
IF Ingram is permanently damaged... then sure, it's a good trade for either. |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| YSong wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | I think Giannis is the only player one could make an argument for to trade
BI/Zo/Kuzma/11 plus filler.
And as much as I love Giannis... even that seems high unless Ingram never recovers.
Look at all the historic trades... the only time that many pieces have been traded is for Kareem
Kareem won a title in his second year... the Bucks improved 29 games in Kareem's first year.
The Pelicans didn't improve at all when AD joined them
Signing AD in 2020... Absolute no brainer
Trading two of three core pieces... Understandable
Trading all of them... Not worth it imo. |
Talk about overrating our guys |
You all are overrating AD... who's played over 70 games only twice in 7 years... got to the playoffs twice in 7 years... who's team didn't even improve when he entered the league like Kareem's teams, LBJ's teams, Shaq's teams.
AD is good... but not four or five quality pieces good. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | I think Giannis is the only player one could make an argument for to trade
BI/Zo/Kuzma/11 plus filler.
And as much as I love Giannis... even that seems high unless Ingram never recovers.
Look at all the historic trades... the only time that many pieces have been traded is for Kareem
Kareem won a title in his second year... the Bucks improved 29 games in Kareem's first year.
The Pelicans didn't improve at all when AD joined them
Signing AD in 2020... Absolute no brainer
Trading two of three core pieces... Understandable
Trading all of them... Not worth it imo. |
Um. Giannis is a no brainer given his age and MVP level right now. Heck, I'd give up the Laker Girls too. |
For the Giannis trade to be a no brainer... Ingram and Ball would have stall out where they are and never improve past 21. Kuzma would never regain his outside shot.
If Ingram and Ball improve significantly... if Kuzma regains his shot... it's no longer a no brainer.
If Kuz and BI become low twenties scorers... Lonzo becomes an elite playmaker and defender... it's a heavy price to pay for Giannis.
More understandable than giving them up for AD... but I don't think it's a no brainer.
IF Ingram is permanently damaged... then sure, it's a good trade for either. |
Giannis is on a HOFer trajectory and is age 24.
It's a no brainer.
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YSong
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | YSong wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | I think Giannis is the only player one could make an argument for to trade
BI/Zo/Kuzma/11 plus filler.
And as much as I love Giannis... even that seems high unless Ingram never recovers.
Look at all the historic trades... the only time that many pieces have been traded is for Kareem
Kareem won a title in his second year... the Bucks improved 29 games in Kareem's first year.
The Pelicans didn't improve at all when AD joined them
Signing AD in 2020... Absolute no brainer
Trading two of three core pieces... Understandable
Trading all of them... Not worth it imo. |
Talk about overrating our guys |
You all are overrating AD... who's played over 70 games only twice in 7 years... got to the playoffs twice in 7 years... who's team didn't even improve when he entered the league like Kareem's teams, LBJ's teams, Shaq's teams.
AD is good... but not four or five quality pieces good. |
How many playoffs for our quality pieces  |
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Sentient Meat
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Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| YSong wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | YSong wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | I think Giannis is the only player one could make an argument for to trade
BI/Zo/Kuzma/11 plus filler.
And as much as I love Giannis... even that seems high unless Ingram never recovers.
Look at all the historic trades... the only time that many pieces have been traded is for Kareem
Kareem won a title in his second year... the Bucks improved 29 games in Kareem's first year.
The Pelicans didn't improve at all when AD joined them
Signing AD in 2020... Absolute no brainer
Trading two of three core pieces... Understandable
Trading all of them... Not worth it imo. |
Talk about overrating our guys |
You all are overrating AD... who's played over 70 games only twice in 7 years... got to the playoffs twice in 7 years... who's team didn't even improve when he entered the league like Kareem's teams, LBJ's teams, Shaq's teams.
AD is good... but not four or five quality pieces good. |
How many playoffs for our quality pieces |
We'll see in a few years.
Let me put it this way... if we trade all our young pieces... I bet they will have more cumulative playoffs under their belt than AD with old LBJ in ten years. |
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YSong
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Joined: 16 Sep 2016
Posts: 2329
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | YSong wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | YSong wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | I think Giannis is the only player one could make an argument for to trade
BI/Zo/Kuzma/11 plus filler.
And as much as I love Giannis... even that seems high unless Ingram never recovers.
Look at all the historic trades... the only time that many pieces have been traded is for Kareem
Kareem won a title in his second year... the Bucks improved 29 games in Kareem's first year.
The Pelicans didn't improve at all when AD joined them
Signing AD in 2020... Absolute no brainer
Trading two of three core pieces... Understandable
Trading all of them... Not worth it imo. |
Talk about overrating our guys |
You all are overrating AD... who's played over 70 games only twice in 7 years... got to the playoffs twice in 7 years... who's team didn't even improve when he entered the league like Kareem's teams, LBJ's teams, Shaq's teams.
AD is good... but not four or five quality pieces good. |
How many playoffs for our quality pieces |
We'll see in a few years.
Let me put it this way... if we trade all our young pieces... I bet they will have more cumulative playoffs under their belt than AD with old LBJ in ten years. |
Why not 15 years while you’re at it. Seriously do you read these statements you are making? |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | Pelicans have been terribly built, Meat. Garnett's teams were also terribly built.
You cannot win on terribly built teams. Do some research. Learn some history. Bad organizations beget bad teams ... even with a great player on it.
The best team Davis has had was his team from last year. Miritic was healthy and a great fit. Rondo fed him and was the leader, and a healthy Holiday emerged as a solid second banana. All of his other teams have been garbage, including this year. |
The Pelicans played similarly if Davis played or not. When he was out other players put up his empty numbers.
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Lucky_Shot
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Joined: 10 Jan 2016
Posts: 5159
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| Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you not watch AD play? The guy is a great player his impact is hugh, you can call them empty stats but they're just not. One player isnt a team |
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