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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46951
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 Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Palin wrote: | How about Lonzo and Ingram for s&t Vucevic and Magic 2019 first round pick.
Sign Butler
Hart
Butler
Lebron
Kuzma
Vucevic
Bench: Bonga, Wagner, Lakers 1st round pick, Magic first round pick, Cap exception.
If we strike gold with Magic pick then this would be a good short and long term roster. |
Hell yes, especially if the Magic pick ends up being a lottery pick. |
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Dreamshake
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 13719
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | shouldnt the Pelicans have the same amount of animosity for the Celtics? Before the whole RP-Lebron angle came about the Celtics were angling for a Davis trade FOR YEARS. |
The difference is the player and his agent didn't attempt a power play to get traded to Boston. |
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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Who do you guys prefer if we had a choice of Middleton or Harris? |
Middletown Already said he is staying. Harris was Traded knowing he will sign 5 years extension |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Who do you guys prefer if we had a choice of Middleton or Harris? |
Middletown Already said he is staying. Harris was Traded knowing he will sign 5 years extension |
That is why the 2 max FA plan is BS unless there is significant tampering going on. |
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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Who do you guys prefer if we had a choice of Middleton or Harris? |
Middletown Already said he is staying. Harris was Traded knowing he will sign 5 years extension |
That is why the 2 max FA plan is BS unless there is significant tampering going on. |
Imagine the same plan for teams like Knicks and clippers |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46951
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Who do you guys prefer if we had a choice of Middleton or Harris? |
Middletown Already said he is staying. Harris was Traded knowing he will sign 5 years extension |
That is why the 2 max FA plan is BS unless there is significant tampering going on. |
LeBron spoke highly of Irving during all star media day, I could definitely see Kyrie Irving being our 2nd max guy, plus Irving wants to make movies and L.A. will give him that opportunity while he lives there full time. |
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HermosaJoe
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Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 506
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Palin wrote: | How about Lonzo and Ingram for s&t Vucevic and Magic 2019 first round pick.
Sign Butler
Hart
Butler
Lebron
Kuzma
Vucevic
Bench: Bonga, Wagner, Lakers 1st round pick, Magic first round pick, Cap exception.
If we strike gold with Magic pick then this would be a good short and long term roster. |
Why? Ingram + zo >>>> butler. For now, 3 years, 5 years and 8/10 years |
Vucevic + Butler + Magic's 1st >> Ingram + Zo |
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Jesusdelonla
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| HermosaJoe wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Palin wrote: | How about Lonzo and Ingram for s&t Vucevic and Magic 2019 first round pick.
Sign Butler
Hart
Butler
Lebron
Kuzma
Vucevic
Bench: Bonga, Wagner, Lakers 1st round pick, Magic first round pick, Cap exception.
If we strike gold with Magic pick then this would be a good short and long term roster. |
Why? Ingram + zo >>>> butler. For now, 3 years, 5 years and 8/10 years |
Vucevic + Butler + Magic's 1st >> Ingram + Zo |
Na vucevic + bi +zo >>>> vucevic + butler + magic 1st |
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nzahir
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Joined: 14 Jan 2019
Posts: 338
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| HermosaJoe wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Palin wrote: | How about Lonzo and Ingram for s&t Vucevic and Magic 2019 first round pick.
Sign Butler
Hart
Butler
Lebron
Kuzma
Vucevic
Bench: Bonga, Wagner, Lakers 1st round pick, Magic first round pick, Cap exception.
If we strike gold with Magic pick then this would be a good short and long term roster. |
Why? Ingram + zo >>>> butler. For now, 3 years, 5 years and 8/10 years |
Vucevic + Butler + Magic's 1st >> Ingram + Zo |
Is this s&t legal if we use up cap space first for Butler then try to match salary or have to do it while under the cap? |
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Villain6Activated
Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| nzahir wrote: | | HermosaJoe wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Palin wrote: | How about Lonzo and Ingram for s&t Vucevic and Magic 2019 first round pick.
Sign Butler
Hart
Butler
Lebron
Kuzma
Vucevic
Bench: Bonga, Wagner, Lakers 1st round pick, Magic first round pick, Cap exception.
If we strike gold with Magic pick then this would be a good short and long term roster. |
Why? Ingram + zo >>>> butler. For now, 3 years, 5 years and 8/10 years |
Vucevic + Butler + Magic's 1st >> Ingram + Zo |
Is this s&t legal if we use up cap space first for Butler then try to match salary or have to do it while under the cap? |
Magic's pick right now is around #9 in a top heavy draft, that pick just sounds valuable cause theres no name attached to it but I guarantee you no one at 9 will be as good as Lonzo/Ingram.
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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| 1ngr4m wrote: | | nzahir wrote: | | HermosaJoe wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Palin wrote: | How about Lonzo and Ingram for s&t Vucevic and Magic 2019 first round pick.
Sign Butler
Hart
Butler
Lebron
Kuzma
Vucevic
Bench: Bonga, Wagner, Lakers 1st round pick, Magic first round pick, Cap exception.
If we strike gold with Magic pick then this would be a good short and long term roster. |
Why? Ingram + zo >>>> butler. For now, 3 years, 5 years and 8/10 years |
Vucevic + Butler + Magic's 1st >> Ingram + Zo |
Is this s&t legal if we use up cap space first for Butler then try to match salary or have to do it while under the cap? |
Magic's pick right now is around #9 in a top heavy draft, that pick just sounds valuable cause theres no name attached to it but I guarantee you no one at 9 will be as good as Lonzo/Ingram. |
Exactly and in a week that draft picks thread would be polluted by random stats. Lol
I prefer bi in year 4 & Zo in year 3 over another rookie |
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Lakers_Jester
Star Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 5366
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm sorry. I know vucevic has played well this year, even though he's always been a pretty skilled big, but I can't help but laugh at yall getting excited over vucevic. We should've held on to Lopez tbh. |
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PlantedTanks
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 3156
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers_Jester wrote: | | I'm sorry. I know vucevic has played well this year, even though he's always been a pretty skilled big, but I can't help but laugh at yall getting excited over vucevic. We should've held on to Lopez tbh. |
Yes he is overrated here. Up until this year he was just a nice player and Magic posters were meh on him. Is his increased productivity due to contract year motivation?
Still a nice player but at what price? |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25249
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Kobesystem
Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Dec 2018
Posts: 641
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Regarding AD, wouldn't he just end up like Bosh and Love during their lebron days..... |
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nzahir
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Joined: 14 Jan 2019
Posts: 338
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | I'm sorry. I know vucevic has played well this year, even though he's always been a pretty skilled big, but I can't help but laugh at yall getting excited over vucevic. We should've held on to Lopez tbh. |
Yes he is overrated here. Up until this year he was just a nice player and Magic posters were meh on him. Is his increased productivity due to contract year motivation?
Still a nice player but at what price? |
Depends how much he asks for.
If we can't get any of the top guys and we are stuck with guys like Boogie and Vuc, then we have to look obviously.
If we can max someone, such as Butler. Move BI, Wagner, and Bonga for a future pick/picks, then we have about 15M after cap holds.
Would Vuc take 15M? I bet he wants more. So unless we can get someone like Jimmy to take about 5M discount, then its too tough. But if we do, team would look like this
Lonzo, Hart, Butler, Lebron, Vuc
6th man is Kuzma with a bunch of vet mins
Contender I think if KD walks to GS |
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PlantedTanks
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Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 3156
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| nzahir wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | I'm sorry. I know vucevic has played well this year, even though he's always been a pretty skilled big, but I can't help but laugh at yall getting excited over vucevic. We should've held on to Lopez tbh. |
Yes he is overrated here. Up until this year he was just a nice player and Magic posters were meh on him. Is his increased productivity due to contract year motivation?
Still a nice player but at what price? |
Depends how much he asks for.
If we can't get any of the top guys and we are stuck with guys like Boogie and Vuc, then we have to look obviously.
If we can max someone, such as Butler. Move BI, Wagner, and Bonga for a future pick/picks, then we have about 15M after cap holds.
Would Vuc take 15M? I bet he wants more. So unless we can get someone like Jimmy to take about 5M discount, then its too tough. But if we do, team would look like this
Lonzo, Hart, Butler, Lebron, Vuc
6th man is Kuzma with a bunch of vet mins
Contender I think if KD walks to GS |
Starting lineup lacks shooters. Lesson learned this season is surround James with shooters.
Also this season is truly an outlier for Vuc and I question if he will be able to consistently maintain this output both offensively and defensively. Just check his year to year advanced stats.
Can we rely on Lo being healthy? Two seasons in and ???. Hart needs to show what he truly is. If we bring Kuz off the bench we might as well shut the door to resigning with us. Our 2 stars will be 35 and 30 next season and both with a lot of miles on their legs.
Our young core has been reduced by 50%. Doesn't bode well for sustaining being a year in year out contender. |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
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nzahir
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jan 2019
Posts: 338
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | nzahir wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | Lakers_Jester wrote: | | I'm sorry. I know vucevic has played well this year, even though he's always been a pretty skilled big, but I can't help but laugh at yall getting excited over vucevic. We should've held on to Lopez tbh. |
Yes he is overrated here. Up until this year he was just a nice player and Magic posters were meh on him. Is his increased productivity due to contract year motivation?
Still a nice player but at what price? |
Depends how much he asks for.
If we can't get any of the top guys and we are stuck with guys like Boogie and Vuc, then we have to look obviously.
If we can max someone, such as Butler. Move BI, Wagner, and Bonga for a future pick/picks, then we have about 15M after cap holds.
Would Vuc take 15M? I bet he wants more. So unless we can get someone like Jimmy to take about 5M discount, then its too tough. But if we do, team would look like this
Lonzo, Hart, Butler, Lebron, Vuc
6th man is Kuzma with a bunch of vet mins
Contender I think if KD walks to GS |
Starting lineup lacks shooters. Lesson learned this season is surround James with shooters.
Also this season is truly an outlier for Vuc and I question if he will be able to consistently maintain this output both offensively and defensively. Just check his year to year advanced stats.
Can we rely on Lo being healthy? Two seasons in and ???. Hart needs to show what he truly is. If we bring Kuz off the bench we might as well shut the door to resigning with us. Our 2 stars will be 35 and 30 next season and both with a lot of miles on their legs.
Our young core has been reduced by 50%. Doesn't bode well for sustaining being a year in year out contender. |
Could use more shooting but Jimmy above avg 3 point shooter this year. Vuc is a good shooter. Hart unsure about, hoping he can become similar to last year or early this year. Lonzo is like a 33% 3 point shooter, meh.
But say AD goes to Boston and Kyrie stays, what we do? Or say Kyrie and KD to NY, but AD goes to a random team |
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LAL1947
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2018
Posts: 1855
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| nzahir wrote: | | Would Vuc take 15M? I bet he wants more. |
Even if he would take 15m, his cap-hold is 19m... so that's what will be going up against our salary cap, not any lesser amount. |
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laker50
Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014
Posts: 2140
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:38 am Post subject: |
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The Lakers are just a second star and good health away from competing with GSW and the best teams.
The Lakers just fell apart when Lebron got hurt. Was in fourth place and climbing when that happened.
But a second star would have maybe kept the Lakers at .500 until Lebron returned.
But to gut the team is so foolish. DLO is an all star after he left the Lakers.
Randle is productive.
The Lakers must learn the word patience.
And of course making the big max off season offers. |
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Bard207
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| LAL1947 wrote: | | nzahir wrote: | | Would Vuc take 15M? I bet he wants more. |
Even if he would take 15m, his cap-hold is 19m... so that's what will be going up against our salary cap, not any lesser amount. |
The cap hold is a temporary number put against (charged) to the team salary with rights to an unsigned player.
Once the contract is signed, then the actual salary is what charged to the salary cap.
13. Exactly what is included when computing total team salaries? What is cap room? What is a cap hold?
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A team's cap room (referred to simply as "room" in the CBA) refers to its ability to sign players to free agent contracts. If a team is above the cap, then its room is limited to the exceptions it possesses. If the team is below the cap, then its room is how far it is below the cap when all salaries and cap holds are included. Cap holds are "placeholders" for players the team is expected to sign in the future. For example, a team is expected to sign its unsigned first round draft pick, so an amount is reserved for this signing in the form of a cap hold. A team $10 million below the cap with $4 million in cap holds therefore has $6 million in room. A team $5 million under the cap with $6 million in cap holds is not considered to be under the cap at all, and must use exceptions to sign players. The following are included in team salary:
* Salaries of all active and inactive players1, including likely bonuses.
* The full season salary of any players the team acquires in midseason trades.
* Salaries paid or payable to waived players, minus any set-off amounts2 and subject to the Stretch provision (see question number 65).
* Any salary still being paid to retired players (see question number 61).
* A cap hold for amounts paid or expected to be paid in conjunction with certain grievances.
* A cap hold for salaries in contracts that have been agreed to but not yet executed (i.e., verbal agreements or agreements pending physicals)3.
* A cap hold for a percentage of the previous salary of every unrenounced free agent (see question number 37).
* A cap hold for salaries offered in offer sheets to restricted free agents (see question number 42).
* A cap hold for 120% of the "scale" amount for the team's unsigned first round draft pick(s) (see question number 50). This amount begins to apply to team salary immediately upon selection in the draft4. This amount can be excluded from the team salary for the current season if, before the season starts, the team and player agree in writing that the team will not sign the player during that season.
* A cap hold called an "incomplete roster charge" if the team has fewer than 12 players (players under contract, free agents included in team salary, players given offer sheets, and first round draft picks). This charge is equal to the rookie minimum salary for each player fewer than 12. For example, if there are 11 players included in team salary, then an amount equal to the rookie minimum salary is added to the team salary5; if the roster is completely empty, then 12 times the rookie minimum salary is added to the team salary. This charge only applies during the offseason.
* A cap hold for the combined amount of any Mid-Level, Bi-Annual, Disabled Player (see question number 25) and trade exceptions (see question number 87) available to the team (see question number 26), if the team is under the salary cap. (Teams may renounce these exceptions, in which case they no longer are included in team salary.)
* Salaries for completed contracts (such as 10-day contracts) are included in team salaries for the remainder of that salary cap year (through June 30).
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Robster8989
Star Player
Joined: 30 Dec 2014
Posts: 1026
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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I think the Lakers will for sure go after the max guys (KD, Kawhi, Klay, Kyrie).
However, I think we may very well strike out with that group.
A lot of us believed that Magic had a commitment from one (ergo, the Deng buyout), but I think the way we pursued AD (which would have left us well short of a max FA) likely indicates they do not feel especially confident with that max group.
So, the next group of FAs is Butler, Tobias, Kemba, Middleton.
I really believe that Kemba and Middleton stay where they are, and it is highly unlikely that the Sixers gave up what they did for Tobias to just let him walk.
Butler has had some issues there, so perhaps, they let him walk (though it would likely take a max to get him).
So let's assume for a moment that we can get Butler with a max.
Do you or don't you?
I think a lot may depend on whether we think AD as a 2020 FA is a possibility, but let's assume for a moment, we get JB with a max:
We'd have about 6 mil in cap space, plus the room.
I believe that Rondo and McGee are keepers from our current group, but at what cost?
Perhaps we work a wink wink deal with them, where they split the room for 2 years, then (when we have their full Bird rights) we golden parachute them (when the cap won't matter any more).
If they would agree to splitting the room, maybe sign Dedmon with the remaining cap.
This would be controversial here, but unless the FO feels Ingram is keeper (and he may not be due to fit), perhaps a trade is in order.
Maybe Ingram to Charlotte for Monk, Hernagomez and a protected pick.
Solves our Ingram problem if we do intend to pursue AD as a FA in 2020. (Ingram's cap hold in 2020 is over 20 mil, so no way to improve the team in FA if we maintain his hold).
Monk is a really good shooter, a bit undersized, and needs PT. He is cost controlled for a few more years (as he was in Lonzo's draft class)
Hernagomez is a 5 who can shoot, and is inexpensive and needs minutes. He has an option next year, then expires, but has a very low cap hold, so would be easy to hang on to if he shows promise).
Right now, Charlotte is playoff bound, so their pick is non lottery, maybe the Lakers can use that pick and their own to move up and get a SG/SF who can shoot and defend (there are several in that 5-12 category)
PG-Lonzo/Rondo/Bonga
SG-Butler/Hart/Monk
SF- LBJ/1st Pick
PF- Kuz/Mo
C- Dedmon/McGee//Hernagomez
Just an option if we did decide to sign Butler with a max.
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UCLA '92
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audioaxes
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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one huge recruiting tactic is if Lebron sells an elite FA on becoming the 1A option on the team. I heard a rumor (no idea if true) that Lebron's camp relayed that very message to AD.
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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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KD with his TV show and all is trying to follow LeBron of becoming best player in NBA.
He is going to Knicks.. only thing is he will never be best player in NBA till LeBron is playing |
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