OFFICIAL GENERAL FREE AGENCY/TRADE THREAD
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bkt4208
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:20 am    Post subject:

Let's be serious.

Kyle Kuzma is an underrated defender who is 6ft 10 with averages of 15/6/2 while netting LESS than 30 minutes per game for his career.

His 36 per is 19/7. In two of his 4 years he has shown he can be a 2 made per game 3 pt threat at 36-37%.

Games where he has netted 32 minutes or more he has averaged 18/8/3 over his career....and one would assume he would be STARTING wherever he was traded and not behind two superstar forwards like LBJ and AD...

Kuzma is excellent value at 3 years and $39 million, especially having just turned 26.

A trade just to move up 9 spots in the draft is laughable...
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vasashi17+
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:20 am    Post subject:

Potentially why we tried to move up to #13? For reference, Knicks tried to move #19/21 to the dubs for #14, targeting Duarte too.

Quote:
Chris Duarte is thought to be the guy the Lakers want to fall. I’ve heard some sources discuss that they’ve looked into moving up the board. But it might be tough to do that given their current asset cache. I referenced in the last mock draft that Mann is a player the Lakers are thought to be high on, and it’s easy to see why. They need some shot creation and pull-up shooting ability next to guys like LeBron James and Anthony Davis. They could especially use it off the bench. Mann makes sense as a strong candidate to fill that need, as he’s the best pull-up shooter in the class and has terrific change of pace and direction handle. He needs to really improve on defense, and he could stand to improve as a passer. But if he’s here, the Lakers will give him a long look. – via Sam Vecenie @ The Athletic

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Kobe_Is_King13
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:26 am    Post subject:

bkt4208 wrote:
Let's be serious.

Kyle Kuzma is an underrated defender who is 6ft 10 with averages of 15/6/2 while netting LESS than 30 minutes per game for his career.

His 36 per is 19/7. In two of his 4 years he has shown he can be a 2 made per game 3 pt threat at 36-37%.

Games where he has netted 32 minutes or more he has averaged 18/8/3 over his career....and one would assume he would be STARTING wherever he was traded and not behind two superstar forwards like LBJ and AD...

Kuzma is excellent value at 3 years and $39 million, especially having just turned 26.

A trade just to move up 9 spots in the draft is laughable...


People are incapable of seeing any positives when it comes to Kuz.

It's too many voices like Shannon Sharpe who are amplifying the bad and outright ignoring the good in the discussion. I mean for goodness sake, they spammed "Trade him" on the Lakers happy birthday post last week.

I feel the zeal to trade him at any cost will cause us to make the same mistake we've made over and over since LeBron signaled he'd come here. We underrate our young talent and either give them up for nothing or for pennies on the dollar of their actual value. The only transaction involving our young core that actually gave us value was the 2 transactions to get AD.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:28 am    Post subject:

Related to Beal?

Quote:
Wizards GM Tommy Sheppard will hold a predraft press conference at 1:50 p.m. ET tomorrow, the Wizards announce.

https://twitter.com/FredKatz/status/1420085195219296263?s=19
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:30 am    Post subject:

bkt4208 wrote:
Let's be serious.

Kyle Kuzma is an underrated defender who is 6ft 10 with averages of 15/6/2 while netting LESS than 30 minutes per game for his career.

His 36 per is 19/7. In two of his 4 years he has shown he can be a 2 made per game 3 pt threat at 36-37%.

Games where he has netted 32 minutes or more he has averaged 18/8/3 over his career....and one would assume he would be STARTING wherever he was traded and not behind two superstar forwards like LBJ and AD...

Kuzma is excellent value at 3 years and $39 million, especially having just turned 26.

A trade just to move up 9 spots in the draft is laughable...

It's why these damn corny 'Shanghai Sharks' memes are so unfunny to me

It's obvious these guys are still solid players in the league - Simmons, Butler, Porzingis, Kuz etc - just because they had a poor playoffs for one reason or another doesn't make them worthless
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:30 am    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
Potentially why we tried to move up to #13? For reference, Knicks tried to move #19/21 to the dubs for #14, targeting Duarte too.

Quote:
Chris Duarte is thought to be the guy the Lakers want to fall. I’ve heard some sources discuss that they’ve looked into moving up the board. But it might be tough to do that given their current asset cache. I referenced in the last mock draft that Mann is a player the Lakers are thought to be high on, and it’s easy to see why. They need some shot creation and pull-up shooting ability next to guys like LeBron James and Anthony Davis. They could especially use it off the bench. Mann makes sense as a strong candidate to fill that need, as he’s the best pull-up shooter in the class and has terrific change of pace and direction handle. He needs to really improve on defense, and he could stand to improve as a passer. But if he’s here, the Lakers will give him a long look. – via Sam Vecenie @ The Athletic

1) The idea that Vecenie has insight into the Lakers front office is absurd.

2) If that's the reason he's trying to trade up (it's not), I hope these teams save Pelinka from himself.

3) Duarte is being grossly overrated. If he's moving up, better players are falling.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:33 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
Trade chatter around the league:

Kings shopping Buddy Hield and Marvin Bagley (@KevinOConnorNBA )

Tyus Jones is available (@MikeAScotto )

Collin Sexton and Ricky Rubio’s names floating on PG trade market (ESPN)

Pacers discussing Aaron Holiday trades (B/R)

Holiday as a cheap reclamation project...?
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bkt4208
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:36 am    Post subject:

Kobe_Is_King13 wrote:
bkt4208 wrote:
Let's be serious.

Kyle Kuzma is an underrated defender who is 6ft 10 with averages of 15/6/2 while netting LESS than 30 minutes per game for his career.

His 36 per is 19/7. In two of his 4 years he has shown he can be a 2 made per game 3 pt threat at 36-37%.

Games where he has netted 32 minutes or more he has averaged 18/8/3 over his career....and one would assume he would be STARTING wherever he was traded and not behind two superstar forwards like LBJ and AD...

Kuzma is excellent value at 3 years and $39 million, especially having just turned 26.

A trade just to move up 9 spots in the draft is laughable...


People are incapable of seeing any positives when it comes to Kuz.

It's too many voices like Shannon Sharpe who are amplifying the bad and outright ignoring the good in the discussion. I mean for goodness sake, they spammed "Trade him" on the Lakers happy birthday post last week.

I feel the zeal to trade him at any cost will cause us to make the same mistake we've made over and over since LeBron signaled he'd come here. We underrate our young talent and either give them up for nothing or for pennies on the dollar of their actual value. The only transaction involving our young core that actually gave us value was the 2 transactions to get AD.


Yes, it is a little mind-boggling to say the least.

There is a HUGE difference on his value with us as a backup forward (among a long list of backups we put in the 3,4 hole over the years) and his likely value as a STARTER on a different team.

At 13 million per over 3 years and "likely" being an 18/8 performer who could repeat or improve on both his 2 per and 36% plus shooting from distance (which he did twice) while offering up average to above average defense based on his youth and length alone....he is very good value.

Too many people are evaluating his worth with us (where he will always be a backup as long as AD and LBJ are on the roster) and not his value elsewhere


Last edited by bkt4208 on Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:38 am    Post subject:

I don't care how good you are I am not spending a 10-25th pick on a guy that is 24 years old. Players like that you grab them off the free agency market.

With picks you choose the youngest player possible with most potential. Unless its a late 2nd round pick.

Of course he is going to look good in college, imagine how THT would look in college 4 years from now........
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Mark10 45
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:40 am    Post subject:

scout_0 wrote:
I don't care how good you are I am not spending a 10-25th pick on a guy that is 24 years old. Players like that you grab them off the free agency market.

With picks you choose the youngest player possible with most potential.

Of course he is going to look good in college, imagine how THT would look in college 4 years from now........


elite shooters who can create in a pinch, who are also solid defenders, are 15Mil players at least on the FA market... and they come up scarcely year to year
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:42 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
Pacers supposedly rejected Kuz and 22 for 13. Some thought that package would net us Turner . Kuz's value is rock bottom right now and its not even worth trading him. Why sell low. Hopefully, he starts off the year good and increases his value in case we trade him during the season. We need Trez to opt in.


My sense is a lot of Laker fans still view Kuzma as a young, hot prospect, while the league views him as an established vet who is solid, but nothing special.

There might be a specific GM who still values his potential highly enough to make trading him worthwhile. However, the league as a whole isn't hot and bothered by him as they were a few years ago. To them, he's just another rotation player.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:42 am    Post subject:

Hollinger posted his free agent point guard valuations based on his statistical model. As with all statistical models, you need to take this with a big grain of salt. Hollinger has said elsewhere that these are valuations based on what the player is likely to produce, not what he expects the market to produce. However, in an analytics-driven league, this sort of analysis is always relevant.

1. Chris Paul ($36M)
2. Kyle Lowry ($25M)
3. Mike Conley ($24M)
4. Lonzo Ball ($22M)
5. Devonte Graham ($19M)
6. Spencer Dinwiddie ($13M)
7. T.J. McConnell ($12M)

Quote:
8. Alex Caruso, Lakers: $12,154,644 (22nd overall)

MVP chants from Staples Center aside, Alex Caruso is actually underrated in some respects. He’s one of the best defensive guards in the league, and defense at the guard position tends to get massively underpaid. Regarded as a non-shooter, he upped his number to 40.1 percent from 3 last year and is at 37.7 percent career, although admittedly on low volume.

Caruso can be a little wild on the ball and thrives best in a combo role, which as with McConnell above may leave teams skittish about paying him starter money. Caruso also is one of several complicated decisions facing the Lakers this offseason. They have full Bird rights, so paying him isn’t the issue, but re-signing him would likely push the Lakers past the apron and take their full midlevel exception and sign-and-trade possibilities out of play.


9. Kendrick Nunn ($11M)

Quote:
10. Dennis Schröder, Lakers: $11,360,013

If Dennis Schröder really turned down a four-year, $80 million extension offer from the Lakers, this might prove an expensive mistake. He proved a high-level sixth man in Oklahoma City but struggled as a starter with the Lakers and is likely to settle in at a dollar value a bit above the midlevel exception.

He’s 27, so the age risk isn’t prominent yet, but three years and $35 million sounds about right. However, this could also end up in a “bet-on-yourself” situation where Schröder opts for a one-year deal with a player option so he can try again next year.


11. Derrick Rose ($10M)
12. Reggie Jackson ($9M)
13. Goran Dragic ($7M)
14. Patty Mills ($7M)

Others in order: Cory Joseph, Raul Neto, Vasa Micic, Ryan Arcidiacono, Saban Lee, Cameron Payne, Jordan McLaughlin, Lou Williams

The Athletic (Pay Wall)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:42 am    Post subject:

Quote:
NBA Central
@TheNBACentral
· 5h
The Minnesota Timberwolves are open to moving Jarrett Culver for a second-round pick, per @DWolfsonKSTP


Do it Rob!
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scout_0
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:44 am    Post subject:

carjoch831 wrote:
Quote:
NBA Central
@TheNBACentral
· 5h
The Minnesota Timberwolves are open to moving Jarrett Culver for a second-round pick, per @DWolfsonKSTP


Do it Rob!


I always liked Culver, only 21 years old.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:47 am    Post subject:

only a 2nd round. wow
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:47 am    Post subject:

I won't list all of Hollinger's center ratings, but here are the two that are most relevant to us:

Quote:
3. Andre Drummond, Lakers: $15,099,657 (13th overall)

I think this valuation is on the high side, but it’s also pretty team-specific. Andre Drummond to me has a lot more value on a middling-to-bad team than on a good one because he can inhale offensive rebounds and take on some offensive responsibility in the former case. It’s easy to forget, but he was pretty good at the start of the season in Cleveland. Then by the playoffs, he was … less good.

As for returning to the Lakers, that seems a dead letter if Drummond wants to get anywhere close to this market value. The best he could do is sign a two-year deal for the full midlevel exception (MLE) with a second-year player option; he’d then have the option to opt out and re-up for more money in 2022-23 with early Bird rights. Alas, even doing that would require the Lakers to let Alex Caruso and Dennis Schröder walk to fit Drummond below the tax apron.

Besides, Drummond doesn’t need the Lakers to get that deal; he can sign it with darn near anybody since so many teams will have access to their full MLE this offseason. That’s exactly what Serge Ibaka and Montrezl Harrell did a year ago, and I think that’s a realistic end game for Drummond this time around.


Quote:
6. Montrezl Harrell, Lakers (player option) $11,536,230

Montrezl Harrell’s decision on his player option is interesting because of the implication for the Lakers. His opting out of the final year of his deal at $9.7 million would allow the Lakers to potentially use their full midlevel exception on reinforcements while still remaining below the tax apron. However, if Harrell opts in, it all but forces the Lakers to trade him after his playing time shriveled toward the end of last season.

The bizarre part is that Harrell can still play; he’s just an unusual archetype to use in a playoff series because he depends on playing pick-and-roll offense and is a liability on defense. Teams needing more of a regular-season boost could find a lot of value here — I’m looking at you, Charlotte — making him one of the summer’s more interesting potential free agents. After last summer, the price is well-established at the full midlevel exception (MLE), although years remain a question.


https://theathletic.com/2723241/2021/07/23/john-hollingers-2021-nba-free-agency-center-rankings-by-bord-starters-yes-stars-not-so-much/
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:47 am    Post subject:

It has been reported that Lonzo and Chicago both have each other at the top of their lists. New Orleans is reported to be in hot pursuit of Lowry (who would have a similar per year cost, but require a much lower overall contract). Feels like a two-way deal sending Zo to Chicago for some restricted premium makes sense. Milwaukee did that with Brogdon, giving up a late 1st. Then the Pels end up with draft compensation and the space for a free agent guard.

Given CP3 is almost certain to remain in Phoenix, I’m guessing Lowry ends up in New York on a short but big payday. That lets the Knicks continue to move forward but keep flexibility. Could also see a nice payday for DeRozan there as well, reuniting with Lowry down the road from Toronto.
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Last edited by Laker's Fan on Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:50 am    Post subject:

carjoch831 wrote:
Quote:
NBA Central
@TheNBACentral
· 5h
The Minnesota Timberwolves are open to moving Jarrett Culver for a second-round pick, per @DWolfsonKSTP


Do it Rob!


Just for reference, the Lakers have made trades with 28 of the other 29 NBA teams. The one holdout, the Minnesota Timberwolves. Things could change with new ownership, but I’m not sure the transition of power has taken place yet.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:50 am    Post subject:

Finally, here's what Hollinger says about THT:

Quote:
14. Talen Horton-Tucker, Lakers (restricted): $5,310,035

The youngest player on the free-agent market, the 20-year-old Talen Horton-Tucker has the sharks circling because the Lakers may be unwilling to match an expensive offer sheet for him. There are two reasons this is possible: First, the luxury-tax implications could get severe if the Lakers also bring back Dennis Schröder and Alex Caruso and Montrezl Harrell opts in to his $9.7 million deal.

Second, the Lakers’ alternate pathway of using sign-and-trades or the full midlevel exception is already complicated given how hard it will be for them to stay below the luxury-tax apron. That effort becomes virtually impossible if a significant salary for Horton-Tucker is also part of their payroll.

Because Horton-Tucker was a rookie on a two-year deal, he is subject to the so-called “Gilbert Arenas” rule — teams can only offer him the full MLE for the first two years of an offer sheet, which should be about $10 million a year. However, it can rise all the way up to the max in years 3 and 4; this has actually happened, with Miami matching a Brooklyn offer sheet on Tyler Johnson for the entire Arenas-rule max in 2016.

Forking out that much for Horton-Tucker would likely be regrettable, but he’d be a good get at more reasonable price points. Given L.A.’s other constraints and the Lakers’ current timeline, it wouldn’t be shocking to see him as part of a sign-and-trade that brings back another win-now piece.


https://theathletic.com/2713836/2021/07/20/2021-nba-free-agency-shooting-guard-rankings-by-bord-no-stars-but-several-starters/
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:51 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Hollinger posted his free agent point guard valuations based on his statistical model. As with all statistical models, you need to take this with a big grain of salt. Hollinger has said elsewhere that these are valuations based on what the player is likely to produce, not what he expects the market to produce. However, in an analytics-driven league, this sort of analysis is always relevant.

1. Chris Paul ($36M)
2. Kyle Lowry ($25M)
3. Mike Conley ($24M)
4. Lonzo Ball ($22M)
5. Devonte Graham ($19M)
6. Spencer Dinwiddie ($13M)
7. T.J. McConnell ($12M)

Quote:
8. Alex Caruso, Lakers: $12,154,644 (22nd overall)

MVP chants from Staples Center aside, Alex Caruso is actually underrated in some respects. He’s one of the best defensive guards in the league, and defense at the guard position tends to get massively underpaid. Regarded as a non-shooter, he upped his number to 40.1 percent from 3 last year and is at 37.7 percent career, although admittedly on low volume.

Caruso can be a little wild on the ball and thrives best in a combo role, which as with McConnell above may leave teams skittish about paying him starter money. Caruso also is one of several complicated decisions facing the Lakers this offseason. They have full Bird rights, so paying him isn’t the issue, but re-signing him would likely push the Lakers past the apron and take their full midlevel exception and sign-and-trade possibilities out of play.


9. Kendrick Nunn ($11M)

Quote:
10. Dennis Schröder, Lakers: $11,360,013

If Dennis Schröder really turned down a four-year, $80 million extension offer from the Lakers, this might prove an expensive mistake. He proved a high-level sixth man in Oklahoma City but struggled as a starter with the Lakers and is likely to settle in at a dollar value a bit above the midlevel exception.

He’s 27, so the age risk isn’t prominent yet, but three years and $35 million sounds about right. However, this could also end up in a “bet-on-yourself” situation where Schröder opts for a one-year deal with a player option so he can try again next year.


11. Derrick Rose ($10M)
12. Reggie Jackson ($9M)
13. Goran Dragic ($7M)
14. Patty Mills ($7M)

Others in order: Cory Joseph, Raul Neto, Vasa Micic, Ryan Arcidiacono, Saban Lee, Cameron Payne, Jordan McLaughlin, Lou Williams

The Athletic (Pay Wall)

This all seems reasonable. Thanks for the info.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:54 am    Post subject:

Wow. Hollinger values Dennis at $11,360,013 a year.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:56 am    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Wow. Hollinger values Dennis at $11,360,013 a year.


I've been thinking 15M per is his ceiling out there
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:58 am    Post subject:

Mark10 45 wrote:
scout_0 wrote:
I don't care how good you are I am not spending a 10-25th pick on a guy that is 24 years old. Players like that you grab them off the free agency market.

With picks you choose the youngest player possible with most potential.

Of course he is going to look good in college, imagine how THT would look in college 4 years from now........


elite shooters who can create in a pinch, who are also solid defenders, are 15Mil players at least on the FA market... and they come up scarcely year to year

Man. Were you this ride or die for Toppin last year?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:58 am    Post subject:

Personally, I’m really liking the idea of trading Kuzma and Harrel for Buddy Hield. Some might consider it too much from our end, but considering what the Lakers need desperately, which is shooting, I think this trade is perfect.

Next, I’d throw everything we can at getting Demar Derozan. It really seems like his heart is set on the Lakers, and unless the clippers come scoop him, I think he is a very realistic target for us

Finally, I’d do anything to swoop up Jared Butler from Baylor in the draft. He’s about a 42% 3 point shooter and is crafty with the ball and can make an impact in the NBA right away. He’s also 6’4. So he’s got size for a point guard
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zj3LU2wD4mc

Our lineup would then be

G: Jared Butler
G: Buddy Hield
F: Demar Dorozan
F: LeBron James
C: Anthony Davis

That lineup is pretty deadly and finally has 1 proven knockdown shooter and another rookie who is proven at the college level

Our bench lineup would then be

G Alex Caruso
G THT
F KCP
F ?
C ?

I would like to see the Lakers fill out the missing pieces by bringing back Dwight and Markieff
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:58 am    Post subject:

Mark10 45 wrote:
32 wrote:
Wow. Hollinger values Dennis at $11,360,013 a year.


I've been thinking 15M per is his ceiling out there


Which is why rejecting that 21m/year offer from the Lakers was insane on his part. He read the market wrong, same now with Spencer Dinwiddie. Both IMO may see closer to 14-16m range, not the 25m range.
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