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CRoost
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 Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | If the Lakers start Kuz this year then I can him hitting his stride
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That is probably the best path for him considering how well he did alongside LBJ and AD lineups.
Too bad I can't find +/- data with 5 man lineups. |
Kuz played mostly with Rondo, they might have emitted that but I’m assuming it’s no bueno. Kuz and Rondo never really have that chemistry like Kuz with Zo and Lebron.
But I’m on the minority of starting Kuz at 2. Most people assume he’s playing there whole game but I’ve clamoring just to start and his minutes get staggered whenever Lebron and AD sits at 3 and 4.
To me that’s the best way to get him into that rhythm.
And Schroder and Trez comes in and I know they can get hot anytime. They are both good enough to create their own and PNR.
Kuz is more of a finisher and need someone to create for his shots. |
I find it interesting that our opinions differ so much on the same player same team.
IMO he is going to thrive with the second unit of Schroeder and Harrell. His strength has never been a structured role that he would have to fill in a speculated starting role with James, Gasol, Davis.
Starters are going to best suited to be a slower more calculated efficient James style on both ends of the floor. Guards like KCP and Caruso "fit" that style more IMO.
Both starters and bench should create turnovers and pick up the pace when possible. Gasol making outlet passes to James, AD will be a thing of beauty.
But the bench is going to rely on energy and pace more then the starters. Kuzma will get opportunities to finish or spot up with that group. IMO it provides him that freedom to do what he does best.
I find it interesting that so many seem caught up in where he fits in the pecking order or his eventual stats. I don't have expectations in those areas. I am envisioning his impact on the court when he gets his 20-25mpg. Is he efficient and plays hard on defense? IMO his stats could be the same or even down from last year but still have a much bigger impact overall.
Last year the roster was too reliant on the stars being stars and questionable depth. This season they have much deeper quality of well rounded options. Should be exciting to watch as they figure it out all season long. |
Schroder and Trez are the type of players who are more of a scorer than a willing passer. I think guys like Lebron and Zo who more of a willing passers can get Kuz going better than those guys and Gasol is also that archetype. That’s why I believed that’s the best position for Kuz to get himself into the rhythm. |
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MookieBetts50
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:53 am Post subject: |
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(bleep) another 3&D wing off the board, Knicks sign MKG.  |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Schroder and Trez are the type of players who are more of a scorer than a willing passer. I think guys like Lebron and Zo who more of a willing passers can get Kuz going better than those guys and Gasol is also that archetype. That’s why I believed that’s the best position for Kuz to get himself into the rhythm.
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That. Compound it with the idea that usually LBJ and AD alternate minutes in the middle of the game, and now Dennis has AD/LBJ and Trez as targets before a death lineup even comes up.
At any given point, LAL may have up to 3 guys more suited to scoring before it getting to Kuzma.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| MookieBetts50 wrote: | | (bleep) another 3&D wing off the board, Knicks sign MKG. |
Defense yes. 3? No.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| MookieBetts50 wrote: | | (bleep) another 3&D wing off the board, Knicks sign MKG. |
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson is still a FA. |
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lakermann44
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| RoB will add soon |
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alleyoop
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | MookieBetts50 wrote: | | (bleep) another 3&D wing off the board, Knicks sign MKG. |
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson is still a FA. |
I don’t see the need for RHJ having traded in McKinnie?
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CRoost
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | Schroder and Trez are the type of players who are more of a scorer than a willing passer. I think guys like Lebron and Zo who more of a willing passers can get Kuz going better than those guys and Gasol is also that archetype. That’s why I believed that’s the best position for Kuz to get himself into the rhythm.
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That. Compound it with the idea that usually LBJ and AD alternate minutes in the middle of the game, and now Dennis has AD/LBJ and Trez as targets before a death lineup even comes up.
At any given point, LAL may have up to 3 guys more suited to scoring before it getting to Kuzma. |
Speaking of death lineup, Which one do you penciled in ad death line up?
Mine is
Lebron
AD
KCP
Caruso
Fill in the blank
Right now, I consider Schroder and Trez are more of a regular season. Hopefully one of them will take will take that role. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Speaking of death lineup, Which one do you penciled in ad death line up?
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It's matchup dependent.
Caruso
LeBron
Matthews
AD
The rotation is between KCP, Dennis, and Gasol.
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P.K.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | I’m sorry, I really do like Kuz as a player and think he can break out on another squad if he’s traded, he’s proven he can COOK on the offensive end when needed (that Detroit game always has been a great Laker memory) |
Actually, he hasn't "proven he can cook when needed"
He's proven he's wildly erratic, and a guy that occasionally gets hot, but more often is highly unreliable.
| alleyoop wrote: |
But he’s our 10th most important man at the moment. We’ve more than filled his role of bench scoring/shooting through the Schroder/Kieff/Trezz/Wes signings. He’s kind of irrelevant right now. |
This I agree with, although some people realistically might argue he's more like #8. Personally, I don't care what # they give him - it was just 100% obvious that adding Schro, Trez, Wes, & Marc pushed Kuz pretty far down the list
Last year they were hoping Kuz would become the #3 option (he didn't) - this year, they made moves that probably make him the #6 or# 7 option on offense - and his defense is bad enough, he's probably in the #8-10 range overall.
People that are suggesting Kuz start are crazy....He's so erratic and such a below average defender, he probably should be the 3rd or 4th guy off the bench. That's not even mentioning the large # of mental mistakes he continues to make |
Kuz averaged 21ppg on high efficiency on starting role and our record is 7-2. He also made a leap defensively on a bubble and the playoff. His defensive FG as a primary defender was encouraging enough and he was switching with some of the best wing players in this playoff.
Kuz development is a high priority . He’s the best trade asset minus AD and Lebron. |
Kuz has a DPM of -1.0 this year, and a rating of -1.2 last year. You and others keep talking about Kuz being a good defender - he's a significantly below average defender. Just watch his games and anyone can see this. For every game where he shuts down Kawhi for 2 offensive possessions, he has 5 games where he's getting lit up.
And he's still wildly erratic on offense, having the occasional good game, followed by numerous incredibly bad games or just marginally average games.
The huge advantage of Schro, Wes, Trez, and Gasol is that they are CONSISTENTLY good. They occasionally have a bad game (just like LBJ, AD, or Kobe) - but it's 1 game out of 10, not Kuz's 5 games out of 6. They also rarely have games where they make 3-4 boneheaded plays or turnovers right in a row, and that's all to common with Kuz.
Kuz is wildly inconsistent. Wildly. He's also predictably erratic and, way to often, just downright stupid.
BTW: Kuz development isn't a priority - winning a championship is a priority. At this point, Kuz has proven to be no more than an afterthought. Kuz is about the 8th option on this team behind AD, LBJ, Gasol, Shro, Wes, Trez, and KCP.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Kuz has a DPM of -1.0 this year, and a rating of -1.2 last year. You and others keep talking about Kuz being a good defender - he's a significantly below average defender. Just watch his games and anyone can see this. For every game where he shuts down Kawhi for 2 offensive possessions, he has 5 games where he's getting lit up.
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DBPM is a noisy stat because the defense got better as the season went on. More important than DBPM is overall +/- with specific lineups.
But, I'm of the opinion that LAL doesn't need to optimize Kuzma. They only need to optimize AD and LBJ. Caruso facilitates to that the best.
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alleyoop
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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The thing is with Kuz - a lottery team will value him highly nonetheless, purely due to his starting stats from last season:
20.9ppg
5.4rpg
2.3apg
45% FG
36% 3PT
He also averaged 22.1ppg in games where he played more than 30min, in which span the Lakers were undefeated
Obviously, though, Schroder and Harrell are much more competent and consistent 3rd scorers than Kuzma is, so there isn't much of a place for Kyle on the squad as a '5th scorer'. The problem is, Kyle's primary strength is that he can cook scoring-wise when given the opportunity, and he won't be given many opportunities at the Lakers. I believe he can play a role as a 3&D wing for us, but it's most certainly not his best role. I hope, for his sake (I really want him to succeed), that he's traded to a team which utilises his scoring abilities
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cital
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I don’t think we are looking for a “3 and D” guy... I think it will be Dudley, a PG, and a C to round out the roster... |
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governator
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| cital wrote: | | I don’t think we are looking for a “3 and D” guy... I think it will be Dudley, a PG, and a C to round out the roster... |
Dudley-J.Lin-Pau |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | I’m sorry, I really do like Kuz as a player and think he can break out on another squad if he’s traded, he’s proven he can COOK on the offensive end when needed (that Detroit game always has been a great Laker memory) |
Actually, he hasn't "proven he can cook when needed"
He's proven he's wildly erratic, and a guy that occasionally gets hot, but more often is highly unreliable.
| alleyoop wrote: |
But he’s our 10th most important man at the moment. We’ve more than filled his role of bench scoring/shooting through the Schroder/Kieff/Trezz/Wes signings. He’s kind of irrelevant right now. |
This I agree with, although some people realistically might argue he's more like #8. Personally, I don't care what # they give him - it was just 100% obvious that adding Schro, Trez, Wes, & Marc pushed Kuz pretty far down the list
Last year they were hoping Kuz would become the #3 option (he didn't) - this year, they made moves that probably make him the #6 or# 7 option on offense - and his defense is bad enough, he's probably in the #8-10 range overall.
People that are suggesting Kuz start are crazy....He's so erratic and such a below average defender, he probably should be the 3rd or 4th guy off the bench. That's not even mentioning the large # of mental mistakes he continues to make |
Kuz averaged 21ppg on high efficiency on starting role and our record is 7-2. He also made a leap defensively on a bubble and the playoff. His defensive FG as a primary defender was encouraging enough and he was switching with some of the best wing players in this playoff.
Kuz development is a high priority . He’s the best trade asset minus AD and Lebron. |
Kuz has a DPM of -1.0 this year, and a rating of -1.2 last year. You and others keep talking about Kuz being a good defender - he's a significantly below average defender. Just watch his games and anyone can see this. For every game where he shuts down Kawhi for 2 offensive possessions, he has 5 games where he's getting lit up.
And he's still wildly erratic on offense, having the occasional good game, followed by numerous incredibly bad games or just marginally average games.
The huge advantage of Schro, Wes, Trez, and Gasol is that they are CONSISTENTLY good. They occasionally have a bad game (just like LBJ, AD, or Kobe) - but it's 1 game out of 10, not Kuz's 5 games out of 6. They also rarely have games where they make 3-4 boneheaded plays or turnovers right in a row, and that's all to common with Kuz.
Kuz is wildly inconsistent. Wildly. He's also predictably erratic and, way to often, just downright stupid.
BTW: Kuz development isn't a priority - winning a championship is a priority. At this point, Kuz has proven to be no more than an afterthought. Kuz is about the 8th option on this team behind AD, LBJ, Gasol, Shro, Wes, Trez, and KCP. |
The ratings does not indicate the leap he made during the bubble. His defensive FG is more reflective.
Inconsistent is common for young guys that have been given different roles every year.
Even for elite players, development is a process. Now you’re expecting a role player to put it together right away when every year, his roles have been switch and he has changed his shooting form.
Championship and development are not mutually exclusive. Of course championship is the highest priority, that’s our end game. I dunno even know why you have to state that . But developing Kuz is also another high on our priority. Because if he hit his stride our team instantly get better short team and long term. In essence, his development align to our team best interest. |
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | I’m sorry, I really do like Kuz as a player and think he can break out on another squad if he’s traded, he’s proven he can COOK on the offensive end when needed (that Detroit game always has been a great Laker memory) |
Actually, he hasn't "proven he can cook when needed"
He's proven he's wildly erratic, and a guy that occasionally gets hot, but more often is highly unreliable.
| alleyoop wrote: |
But he’s our 10th most important man at the moment. We’ve more than filled his role of bench scoring/shooting through the Schroder/Kieff/Trezz/Wes signings. He’s kind of irrelevant right now. |
This I agree with, although some people realistically might argue he's more like #8. Personally, I don't care what # they give him - it was just 100% obvious that adding Schro, Trez, Wes, & Marc pushed Kuz pretty far down the list
Last year they were hoping Kuz would become the #3 option (he didn't) - this year, they made moves that probably make him the #6 or# 7 option on offense - and his defense is bad enough, he's probably in the #8-10 range overall.
People that are suggesting Kuz start are crazy....He's so erratic and such a below average defender, he probably should be the 3rd or 4th guy off the bench. That's not even mentioning the large # of mental mistakes he continues to make |
Kuz averaged 21ppg on high efficiency on starting role and our record is 7-2. He also made a leap defensively on a bubble and the playoff. His defensive FG as a primary defender was encouraging enough and he was switching with some of the best wing players in this playoff.
Kuz development is a high priority . He’s the best trade asset minus AD and Lebron. |
Kuz has a DPM of -1.0 this year, and a rating of -1.2 last year. You and others keep talking about Kuz being a good defender - he's a significantly below average defender. Just watch his games and anyone can see this. For every game where he shuts down Kawhi for 2 offensive possessions, he has 5 games where he's getting lit up.
And he's still wildly erratic on offense, having the occasional good game, followed by numerous incredibly bad games or just marginally average games.
The huge advantage of Schro, Wes, Trez, and Gasol is that they are CONSISTENTLY good. They occasionally have a bad game (just like LBJ, AD, or Kobe) - but it's 1 game out of 10, not Kuz's 5 games out of 6. They also rarely have games where they make 3-4 boneheaded plays or turnovers right in a row, and that's all to common with Kuz.
Kuz is wildly inconsistent. Wildly. He's also predictably erratic and, way to often, just downright stupid.
BTW: Kuz development isn't a priority - winning a championship is a priority. At this point, Kuz has proven to be no more than an afterthought. Kuz is about the 8th option on this team behind AD, LBJ, Gasol, Shro, Wes, Trez, and KCP. |
The ratings does not indicate the leap he made during the bubble. His defensive FG is more reflective.
Inconsistent is common for young guys that have been given different roles every year.
Even for elite players, development is a process. Now you’re expecting a role player to put it together right away when every year, his roles have been switch and he has changed his shooting form.
Championship and development are not mutually exclusive. Of course championship is the highest priority, that’s our end game. I dunno even know why you have to state that . But developing Kuz is also another high on our priority. Because if he hit his stride our team instantly get better short team and long term. In essence, his development align to our team best interest. |
rather give the time to tht and trade kuz for some piece that is cheap and around next season.
i highly doubt kuz will be kept next season unless he just sucks given the salary constraints. |
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governator
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| what's the salary comp for Kuzma? |
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CRoost
Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4818
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | Kuz has a DPM of -1.0 this year, and a rating of -1.2 last year. You and others keep talking about Kuz being a good defender - he's a significantly below average defender. Just watch his games and anyone can see this. For every game where he shuts down Kawhi for 2 offensive possessions, he has 5 games where he's getting lit up.
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DBPM is a noisy stat because the defense got better as the season went on. More important than DBPM is overall +/- with specific lineups.
But, I'm of the opinion that LAL doesn't need to optimize Kuzma. They only need to optimize AD and LBJ. Caruso facilitates to that the best. |
That’s the playoff mode.
I believed we have enough margin of errors to develop our young guys and still have a great regular season record because of our depth and talent. Also Expanding AD role in offense and give some of that playmaking duties for regular season will have the best optimization . AD taking his game to another level means we are on another level comes playoff. |
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cal1piggy
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | what's the salary comp for Kuzma? |
too much for next year's budget unless:
1. he makes the minimum or
2. suddenly his 3p% goes up to 40% and his d becomes at least average after 2 seasons of 3p% around 31% |
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alleyoop
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Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 3869
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| cital wrote: | | I don’t think we are looking for a “3 and D” guy... I think it will be Dudley, a PG, and a C to round out the roster... |
Agree with this. I think Dudley will be the 15th signing though
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CRoost
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | I’m sorry, I really do like Kuz as a player and think he can break out on another squad if he’s traded, he’s proven he can COOK on the offensive end when needed (that Detroit game always has been a great Laker memory) |
Actually, he hasn't "proven he can cook when needed"
He's proven he's wildly erratic, and a guy that occasionally gets hot, but more often is highly unreliable.
| alleyoop wrote: |
But he’s our 10th most important man at the moment. We’ve more than filled his role of bench scoring/shooting through the Schroder/Kieff/Trezz/Wes signings. He’s kind of irrelevant right now. |
This I agree with, although some people realistically might argue he's more like #8. Personally, I don't care what # they give him - it was just 100% obvious that adding Schro, Trez, Wes, & Marc pushed Kuz pretty far down the list
Last year they were hoping Kuz would become the #3 option (he didn't) - this year, they made moves that probably make him the #6 or# 7 option on offense - and his defense is bad enough, he's probably in the #8-10 range overall.
People that are suggesting Kuz start are crazy....He's so erratic and such a below average defender, he probably should be the 3rd or 4th guy off the bench. That's not even mentioning the large # of mental mistakes he continues to make |
Kuz averaged 21ppg on high efficiency on starting role and our record is 7-2. He also made a leap defensively on a bubble and the playoff. His defensive FG as a primary defender was encouraging enough and he was switching with some of the best wing players in this playoff.
Kuz development is a high priority . He’s the best trade asset minus AD and Lebron. |
Kuz has a DPM of -1.0 this year, and a rating of -1.2 last year. You and others keep talking about Kuz being a good defender - he's a significantly below average defender. Just watch his games and anyone can see this. For every game where he shuts down Kawhi for 2 offensive possessions, he has 5 games where he's getting lit up.
And he's still wildly erratic on offense, having the occasional good game, followed by numerous incredibly bad games or just marginally average games.
The huge advantage of Schro, Wes, Trez, and Gasol is that they are CONSISTENTLY good. They occasionally have a bad game (just like LBJ, AD, or Kobe) - but it's 1 game out of 10, not Kuz's 5 games out of 6. They also rarely have games where they make 3-4 boneheaded plays or turnovers right in a row, and that's all to common with Kuz.
Kuz is wildly inconsistent. Wildly. He's also predictably erratic and, way to often, just downright stupid.
BTW: Kuz development isn't a priority - winning a championship is a priority. At this point, Kuz has proven to be no more than an afterthought. Kuz is about the 8th option on this team behind AD, LBJ, Gasol, Shro, Wes, Trez, and KCP. |
The ratings does not indicate the leap he made during the bubble. His defensive FG is more reflective.
Inconsistent is common for young guys that have been given different roles every year.
Even for elite players, development is a process. Now you’re expecting a role player to put it together right away when every year, his roles have been switch and he has changed his shooting form.
Championship and development are not mutually exclusive. Of course championship is the highest priority, that’s our end game. I dunno even know why you have to state that . But developing Kuz is also another high on our priority. Because if he hit his stride our team instantly get better short team and long term. In essence, his development align to our team best interest. |
rather give the time to tht and trade kuz for some piece that is cheap and around next season.
i highly doubt kuz will be kept next season unless he just sucks given the salary constraints. |
You’re contradicting . If you believed he sucks, then why are you worried if he’s here next year. Going by your logic, he’s gonna be cheap too right ? So why can’t we keep a cheap player that’s already part of our championship rotation? That should be our goal right? |
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cal1piggy
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | I’m sorry, I really do like Kuz as a player and think he can break out on another squad if he’s traded, he’s proven he can COOK on the offensive end when needed (that Detroit game always has been a great Laker memory) |
Actually, he hasn't "proven he can cook when needed"
He's proven he's wildly erratic, and a guy that occasionally gets hot, but more often is highly unreliable.
| alleyoop wrote: |
But he’s our 10th most important man at the moment. We’ve more than filled his role of bench scoring/shooting through the Schroder/Kieff/Trezz/Wes signings. He’s kind of irrelevant right now. |
This I agree with, although some people realistically might argue he's more like #8. Personally, I don't care what # they give him - it was just 100% obvious that adding Schro, Trez, Wes, & Marc pushed Kuz pretty far down the list
Last year they were hoping Kuz would become the #3 option (he didn't) - this year, they made moves that probably make him the #6 or# 7 option on offense - and his defense is bad enough, he's probably in the #8-10 range overall.
People that are suggesting Kuz start are crazy....He's so erratic and such a below average defender, he probably should be the 3rd or 4th guy off the bench. That's not even mentioning the large # of mental mistakes he continues to make |
Kuz averaged 21ppg on high efficiency on starting role and our record is 7-2. He also made a leap defensively on a bubble and the playoff. His defensive FG as a primary defender was encouraging enough and he was switching with some of the best wing players in this playoff.
Kuz development is a high priority . He’s the best trade asset minus AD and Lebron. |
Kuz has a DPM of -1.0 this year, and a rating of -1.2 last year. You and others keep talking about Kuz being a good defender - he's a significantly below average defender. Just watch his games and anyone can see this. For every game where he shuts down Kawhi for 2 offensive possessions, he has 5 games where he's getting lit up.
And he's still wildly erratic on offense, having the occasional good game, followed by numerous incredibly bad games or just marginally average games.
The huge advantage of Schro, Wes, Trez, and Gasol is that they are CONSISTENTLY good. They occasionally have a bad game (just like LBJ, AD, or Kobe) - but it's 1 game out of 10, not Kuz's 5 games out of 6. They also rarely have games where they make 3-4 boneheaded plays or turnovers right in a row, and that's all to common with Kuz.
Kuz is wildly inconsistent. Wildly. He's also predictably erratic and, way to often, just downright stupid.
BTW: Kuz development isn't a priority - winning a championship is a priority. At this point, Kuz has proven to be no more than an afterthought. Kuz is about the 8th option on this team behind AD, LBJ, Gasol, Shro, Wes, Trez, and KCP. |
The ratings does not indicate the leap he made during the bubble. His defensive FG is more reflective.
Inconsistent is common for young guys that have been given different roles every year.
Even for elite players, development is a process. Now you’re expecting a role player to put it together right away when every year, his roles have been switch and he has changed his shooting form.
Championship and development are not mutually exclusive. Of course championship is the highest priority, that’s our end game. I dunno even know why you have to state that . But developing Kuz is also another high on our priority. Because if he hit his stride our team instantly get better short team and long term. In essence, his development align to our team best interest. |
rather give the time to tht and trade kuz for some piece that is cheap and around next season.
i highly doubt kuz will be kept next season unless he just sucks given the salary constraints. |
You’re contradicting . If you believed he sucks, then why are you worried if he’s here next year. Going by your logic, he’s gonna be cheap too right ? So why can’t we keep a cheap player that’s already part of our championship rotation? That should be our goal right? |
i just said the only likely way for kuz to be here is through the minimum.
and if he sucks, who cares if it is kuz or some other minimum.
i highly doubt he will progress enough to worth eating into the budget particularly given his 3p% of ~31%.
do the math - lbj + ad + kcp = ~83 million
that leaves not much more than 25 million for everyone else.
if you use 1.6 million for the minimum, that is 16 million for another 10 players.
so 9 million under the cap.
we have birds right on ds and early bird on tht and caruso, but nothing for trezz.
there is mle left but probably for tax paying mle.
that is why i think we should trade kuz now while some teams may dream on him and get more than a minimum player back.
i rather give the time to tht who have significant upside whether for trade asset or something else. |
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | Kuz has a DPM of -1.0 this year, and a rating of -1.2 last year. You and others keep talking about Kuz being a good defender - he's a significantly below average defender. Just watch his games and anyone can see this. For every game where he shuts down Kawhi for 2 offensive possessions, he has 5 games where he's getting lit up.
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DBPM is a noisy stat because the defense got better as the season went on. More important than DBPM is overall +/- with specific lineups.
But, I'm of the opinion that LAL doesn't need to optimize Kuzma. They only need to optimize AD and LBJ. Caruso facilitates to that the best. |
That’s the playoff mode.
I believed we have enough margin of errors to develop our young guys and still have a great regular season record because of our depth and talent. Also Expanding AD role in offense and give some of that playmaking duties for regular season will have the best optimization . AD taking his game to another level means we are on another level comes playoff. |
Playoff mode wasn't great DBPM either.
Things clicked for him in March and unfortunately, couldn't be continued without the break.
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CRoost
Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4818
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | I’m sorry, I really do like Kuz as a player and think he can break out on another squad if he’s traded, he’s proven he can COOK on the offensive end when needed (that Detroit game always has been a great Laker memory) |
Actually, he hasn't "proven he can cook when needed"
He's proven he's wildly erratic, and a guy that occasionally gets hot, but more often is highly unreliable.
| alleyoop wrote: |
But he’s our 10th most important man at the moment. We’ve more than filled his role of bench scoring/shooting through the Schroder/Kieff/Trezz/Wes signings. He’s kind of irrelevant right now. |
This I agree with, although some people realistically might argue he's more like #8. Personally, I don't care what # they give him - it was just 100% obvious that adding Schro, Trez, Wes, & Marc pushed Kuz pretty far down the list
Last year they were hoping Kuz would become the #3 option (he didn't) - this year, they made moves that probably make him the #6 or# 7 option on offense - and his defense is bad enough, he's probably in the #8-10 range overall.
People that are suggesting Kuz start are crazy....He's so erratic and such a below average defender, he probably should be the 3rd or 4th guy off the bench. That's not even mentioning the large # of mental mistakes he continues to make |
Kuz averaged 21ppg on high efficiency on starting role and our record is 7-2. He also made a leap defensively on a bubble and the playoff. His defensive FG as a primary defender was encouraging enough and he was switching with some of the best wing players in this playoff.
Kuz development is a high priority . He’s the best trade asset minus AD and Lebron. |
Kuz has a DPM of -1.0 this year, and a rating of -1.2 last year. You and others keep talking about Kuz being a good defender - he's a significantly below average defender. Just watch his games and anyone can see this. For every game where he shuts down Kawhi for 2 offensive possessions, he has 5 games where he's getting lit up.
And he's still wildly erratic on offense, having the occasional good game, followed by numerous incredibly bad games or just marginally average games.
The huge advantage of Schro, Wes, Trez, and Gasol is that they are CONSISTENTLY good. They occasionally have a bad game (just like LBJ, AD, or Kobe) - but it's 1 game out of 10, not Kuz's 5 games out of 6. They also rarely have games where they make 3-4 boneheaded plays or turnovers right in a row, and that's all to common with Kuz.
Kuz is wildly inconsistent. Wildly. He's also predictably erratic and, way to often, just downright stupid.
BTW: Kuz development isn't a priority - winning a championship is a priority. At this point, Kuz has proven to be no more than an afterthought. Kuz is about the 8th option on this team behind AD, LBJ, Gasol, Shro, Wes, Trez, and KCP. |
The ratings does not indicate the leap he made during the bubble. His defensive FG is more reflective.
Inconsistent is common for young guys that have been given different roles every year.
Even for elite players, development is a process. Now you’re expecting a role player to put it together right away when every year, his roles have been switch and he has changed his shooting form.
Championship and development are not mutually exclusive. Of course championship is the highest priority, that’s our end game. I dunno even know why you have to state that . But developing Kuz is also another high on our priority. Because if he hit his stride our team instantly get better short team and long term. In essence, his development align to our team best interest. |
rather give the time to tht and trade kuz for some piece that is cheap and around next season.
i highly doubt kuz will be kept next season unless he just sucks given the salary constraints. |
You’re contradicting . If you believed he sucks, then why are you worried if he’s here next year. Going by your logic, he’s gonna be cheap too right ? So why can’t we keep a cheap player that’s already part of our championship rotation? That should be our goal right? |
i just said the only likely way for kuz to be here is through the minimum.
i highly doubt he will progress enough to worth eating into the budget particularly given his 3p% of ~31%.
do the math - lbj + ad + kcp = ~83 million
that leaves not much more than 25 million for everyone else.
that is why i think we should trade kuz now while some teams may dream on him and get more than a minimum player back.
i rather give the time to tht who have significant upside. |
If you don’t think he will progress enough then why are you worried about him eating up to our budget. That’s contradicting your opinion. We have his Bird rights and we also can match any offer. In essence, we can pay him accordingly. We can go over the cap if our team wishes to. We can renounce him if he sucks.
We should not be worried on a player that only worth keeping if he’s a minimum going by your logic . Am I right? So what your point. |
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The Dagger
Star Player
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 7276
Location: Sovngarde
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: |
Going to be interesting to see how “load management “ for the players actually plays out during the season.
First from a mpg standpoint, part of the reason I want to see more center and PG depth is because of this likelihood. Team is currently deep but take out the impact mpg from marquees players and it changes the competitive level quite a bit.
Secondly from a team chemistry point of view. Load management backfired on the Clips last year. Lakers are certainly different with chemistry and leadership but it could become an issue if handled poorly.
It is a balancing act. The West didn’t get any easier from a seeding standpoint . Wins are going to hard enough to come by with a complete roster, not sure they have the luxury of planning on giving 5-10 games away.
But I also understand James, Gasol, Mathews, and Davis likely need to be coddled a bit. This season in going to be a long one, without the benefit of a short playoff sprint after a four month rest. Changes the dynamics quite a bit.
Tough choices coming. I would prefer they focus more on playing those players less mpg and take games off as needed due to injuries or fatigue. Not pre-planning nights off. |
LBJ, AD and MG should not load manage by sitting out games. They should load manage with their minutes. LBJ and AD should not be over 30 mpg. MG should not be over 20. Limit there minutes even more on back to backs.
LBJ already said he does not believe in KY Leonard type load management.
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