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PlantedTanks
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 Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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Listened to the Simmons - Jackie MacMullan podcast. Paraphrasing some of what she stated about the Rondo.
She related a story where Rondo told Lebron you can't be glaring at Kuzma. He is so young and will be devastated for the next 3 days. You are Lebron James. Sounds from 2 seasons ago.
Also mentioned others stated how good a teammate he is and he even attended Gleague games to help the teams rookies.
Also the Clips should/need to sign Rondo.
He is a must resign. If over priced maybe a ST with an east coast team. |
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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If KCP leaves wonder if the BUcks would trade Donte DiVincenzo for Kuzma, I feel Kuz could breakout with the Bucks and they need to make changes otherwise Giannis is gone.
If 28 can be traded for 2 2nds one of these can be included in the deal. |
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saetarubia
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | Listened to the Simmons - Jackie MacMullan podcast. Paraphrasing some of what she stated about the Rondo.
She related a story where Rondo told Lebron you can't be glaring at Kuzma. He is so young and will be devastated for the next 3 days. You are Lebron James. Sounds from 2 seasons ago.
Also mentioned others stated how good a teammate he is and he even attended Gleague games to help the teams rookies.
Also the Clips should/need to sign Rondo.
He is a must resign. If over priced maybe a ST with an east coast team. |
We are keeping Rondo unless we trade for CP3. Boston gang like Jackie, Paul Pierce, Bill Simmons so badly want Rondo on the Clippers lol. He's tight with AD and Clippers likely won't even have full MLE after paying Trezz and Morris. Lakers can offer Rondo good money due to early bird rights and AD is not gonna be happy if we let Rondo go unless it's to bring in CP3, Oladipo type 3rd star. So Lakers are most likely keeping Rondo.
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dfchang813
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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If we can keep Rondo, Dwight, and KCP and upgrade Green, Kuzma, and Morris I’ll be happy.
I’m okay swapping out McGee for Cousins and having Bradley come back as long as he’s willing to play. |
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Lakerlover89
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Joined: 18 Apr 2019
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| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| dfchang813 wrote: | If we can keep Rondo, Dwight, and KCP and upgrade Green, Kuzma, and Morris I’ll be happy.
I’m okay swapping out McGee for Cousins and having Bradley come back as long as he’s willing to play. |
Honestly, I'd love to have Morris back. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | If KCP leaves wonder if the BUcks would trade Donte DiVincenzo for Kuzma, I feel Kuz could breakout with the Bucks and they need to make changes otherwise Giannis is gone.
If 28 can be traded for 2 2nds one of these can be included in the deal. |
Why do the Bucks trade a guy with 2 more years of control, while comparable on D and better on offense? |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | If KCP leaves wonder if the BUcks would trade Donte DiVincenzo for Kuzma, I feel Kuz could breakout with the Bucks and they need to make changes otherwise Giannis is gone.
If 28 can be traded for 2 2nds one of these can be included in the deal. |
Why do the Bucks trade a guy with 2 more years of control, while comparable on D and better on offense? |
The Bucks wouldn't trade Donte for Kuz and 28, probably. He's better than Kuz and has one further year of team control than Kuz does. Yeah, 28 is worth something, but with Donte being a key rotation piece for them, and with them being under the gun to win this year or they could lose Giannis, I don't see them downgrading in their rotation just to pick up the #28 pick. |
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | If KCP leaves wonder if the BUcks would trade Donte DiVincenzo for Kuzma, I feel Kuz could breakout with the Bucks and they need to make changes otherwise Giannis is gone.
If 28 can be traded for 2 2nds one of these can be included in the deal. |
Why do the Bucks trade a guy with 2 more years of control, while comparable on D and better on offense? |
Only 1 more year of control than Kuzma. Switching out for more size. Do Bucks believe Kuzma can breakout? Will this allow Middleton to switch down to SG? Will this provide better defensive match ups against the wing heavy Eastern teams (Celtics, Raptors, 76ers, Heat)?
Bucks have no draft picks this year. They need to change their formula or Giannis is gone next year. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | If KCP leaves wonder if the BUcks would trade Donte DiVincenzo for Kuzma, I feel Kuz could breakout with the Bucks and they need to make changes otherwise Giannis is gone.
If 28 can be traded for 2 2nds one of these can be included in the deal. |
Why do the Bucks trade a guy with 2 more years of control, while comparable on D and better on offense? |
Only 1 more year of control than Kuzma. Switching out for more size. Do Bucks believe Kuzma can breakout? Will this allow Middleton to switch down to SG? Will this provide better defensive match ups against the wing heavy Eastern teams (Celtics, Raptors, 76ers, Heat)?
Bucks have no draft picks this year. They need to change their formula or Giannis is gone next year. |
They have the 24th overall pick, via Indiana. |
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | If KCP leaves wonder if the BUcks would trade Donte DiVincenzo for Kuzma, I feel Kuz could breakout with the Bucks and they need to make changes otherwise Giannis is gone.
If 28 can be traded for 2 2nds one of these can be included in the deal. |
Why do the Bucks trade a guy with 2 more years of control, while comparable on D and better on offense? |
Only 1 more year of control than Kuzma. Switching out for more size. Do Bucks believe Kuzma can breakout? Will this allow Middleton to switch down to SG? Will this provide better defensive match ups against the wing heavy Eastern teams (Celtics, Raptors, 76ers, Heat)?
Bucks have no draft picks this year. They need to change their formula or Giannis is gone next year. |
They have the 24th overall pick, via Indiana. |
Thanks. |
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3baller
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| Practice wrote: | | 3baller wrote: | Also, why would a championship team need to gamble and take a huge risk in Oladipo?
I'd only do that trade if:
- we were able to sign Gallo or someone else who can be a reliable scorer off the bench and as a starter as we inevitably load manage Lebron and AD a little more next season especially if the 72 game season starting on Dec 22 pushes through
- Bradley opts in
- we can't get a better deal for a Kuz+Green package after exhausting all possibilities
Even then, I'd seriously consider just standing pat if Oladipo's the only available trade. |
If Oladipo's value is as low as it's being implied trading for him would be a low risk high reward move. Even if he doesn't duplicate what he did a few years ago you're still getting good value. |
Oladipo could end up being back to playing at an all-star level but he could also end up playing similar to how he played last season and that would be terrible value.
If we were a lottery team, then yes, it's a trade I'd do for sure since we'd have very little to lose. But Kuz and Green are 2 players who we know for a fact were enough to help us win a championship. If we stood pat, we'd likely still be the favorites to win next season. Trading both of them away for a player with so much uncertainty as Oladipo, to me, is a high risk play that we don't have to make especially when there are other less risky trades that we could pursue.
But as I've said, if we could replace Kuz with Gallo, re-sign KCP and have Bradley opt in then maybe it's something we could consider ONLY after exploring all other trade options for Kuz & Green. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:11 am Post subject: |
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^
Oladipo is more high-risk than CP3 is, to me. Take their contracts out of it: I know CP3 is a Hall Of Fame player who was great last season, and that Oladipo has essentially had one outlier-great season and has been mediocre-to-OK in every other season of his career. And despite CP3's injury history, I would argue that Oladipo's recent injury history (the one catastrophic leg injury) is more problematic. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | If KCP leaves wonder if the BUcks would trade Donte DiVincenzo for Kuzma, I feel Kuz could breakout with the Bucks and they need to make changes otherwise Giannis is gone.
If 28 can be traded for 2 2nds one of these can be included in the deal. |
Why do the Bucks trade a guy with 2 more years of control, while comparable on D and better on offense? |
Only 1 more year of control than Kuzma. Switching out for more size. Do Bucks believe Kuzma can breakout? Will this allow Middleton to switch down to SG? Will this provide better defensive match ups against the wing heavy Eastern teams (Celtics, Raptors, 76ers, Heat)?
Bucks have no draft picks this year. They need to change their formula or Giannis is gone next year. |
They have the 24th overall pick, via Indiana. |
Thanks. |
No problem. I do agree with you that Milwaukee is likely to make a move, which is why I think they are the ones that will make the trade for CP3. I think they are feeling the pressure big time. |
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | ^
Oladipo is more high-risk than CP3 is, to me. Take their contracts out of it: I know CP3 is a Hall Of Fame player who was great last season, and that Oladipo has essentially had one outlier-great season and has been mediocre-to-OK in every other season of his career. And despite CP3's injury history, I would argue that Oladipo's recent injury history (the one catastrophic leg injury) is more problematic. |
Perfect summary- well stated my friend.
Last edited by babyskyhook on Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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babyskyhook
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | If KCP leaves wonder if the BUcks would trade Donte DiVincenzo for Kuzma, I feel Kuz could breakout with the Bucks and they need to make changes otherwise Giannis is gone.
If 28 can be traded for 2 2nds one of these can be included in the deal. |
Why do the Bucks trade a guy with 2 more years of control, while comparable on D and better on offense? |
Only 1 more year of control than Kuzma. Switching out for more size. Do Bucks believe Kuzma can breakout? Will this allow Middleton to switch down to SG? Will this provide better defensive match ups against the wing heavy Eastern teams (Celtics, Raptors, 76ers, Heat)?
Bucks have no draft picks this year. They need to change their formula or Giannis is gone next year. |
They have the 24th overall pick, via Indiana. |
Thanks. |
No problem. I do agree with you that Milwaukee is likely to make a move, which is why I think they are the ones that will make the trade for CP3. I think they are feeling the pressure big time. |
I could see Dipo to the Bucks. he’s cheaper and his deal expires after this year. if Giannis leaves, they wouldn’t be committed to Dipo for ‘21-‘22 the way they would for CP.
These guys let Brogdon walk over money. I’ll believe they take on CP’s money when I see it, especially if there are cheaper alternatives available that they can sell Giannis on. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:10 am Post subject: |
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I would like Green to shift to a bench role next season.
Bring back Bradley, if he opts in.
Dwight-Kuz-Cousins
AD-Morris-Kostas
KCP-Green-THT
Bradley-Caruso-Waiters
LeBron-Rondo-28th pick (or get a PG via trading the pick)
Close typically with AD, Bron, KCP, Green and either Rondo/Caruso.
This group can still get better.
Cousins was not at all involved in last year's run.
Kuzma still has ability to grow into a real 3rd option. If he figures out things the way KCP did, it's a big time impact 3rd guy.
THT has some talent to play minutes maybe for us.
Waiters has ability to drop 15 a night, but we need him to focus on defense to earn minutes with Vogel.
Caruso is only growing as a role player in his role.
If you look back to the 2009 and 2010 Laker teams, only 1 change in the rotation really from first run and repeat. Instead of Ariza, it was Artest. We may have to make a change like that with KCP in free agency, but aside from that, I do not think a major move is needed. The team has shown it can match up with anyone.
I would like to add some shooters to this team, but shooters that do not defend will get no PT on a Vogel team (Quinn Cook). You need players that can step up on the defensive end and lock down their man, or be willing to. That is the Frank Vogel staple that this team won a ring around.
Our O rating was 11th in the league in the RS last year. We did not play to our best potential on that end, and we still have room to grow on that end. The main main thing is we need the team to stay focused on defense. We need to get some of the guys who are either projects/low risk signings or developing to come in and play minutes. A guy like Cousins. A guy like Waiters. A guy like Kuzma, is still not really fully comfortable in his role. If your bench has 3 guys like that rolling, you have an explosive ability on offense. If we can get some development in the AD/Bron pick and roll. Some better team ability to post feed the ball when Dwight is open, or AD inside. All these things to me, will lead a far better impact than trading or replacing half the roster. |
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Luminous8
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Joined: 26 Apr 2017
Posts: 2192
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | I would like Green to shift to a bench role next season.
Bring back Bradley, if he opts in.
Dwight-Kuz-Cousins
AD-Morris-Kostas
KCP-Green-THT
Bradley-Caruso-Waiters
LeBron-Rondo-28th pick (or get a PG via trading the pick)
Close typically with AD, Bron, KCP, Green and either Rondo/Caruso.
This group can still get better.
Cousins was not at all involved in last year's run.
Kuzma still has ability to grow into a real 3rd option. If he figures out things the way KCP did, it's a big time impact 3rd guy.
THT has some talent to play minutes maybe for us.
Waiters has ability to drop 15 a night, but we need him to focus on defense to earn minutes with Vogel.
Caruso is only growing as a role player in his role.
If you look back to the 2009 and 2010 Laker teams, only 1 change in the rotation really from first run and repeat. Instead of Ariza, it was Artest. We may have to make a change like that with KCP in free agency, but aside from that, I do not think a major move is needed. The team has shown it can match up with anyone.
I would like to add some shooters to this team, but shooters that do not defend will get no PT on a Vogel team (Quinn Cook). You need players that can step up on the defensive end and lock down their man, or be willing to. That is the Frank Vogel staple that this team won a ring around.
Our O rating was 11th in the league in the RS last year. We did not play to our best potential on that end, and we still have room to grow on that end. The main main thing is we need the team to stay focused on defense. We need to get some of the guys who are either projects/low risk signings or developing to come in and play minutes. A guy like Cousins. A guy like Waiters. A guy like Kuzma, is still not really fully comfortable in his role. If your bench has 3 guys like that rolling, you have an explosive ability on offense. If we can get some development in the AD/Bron pick and roll. Some better team ability to post feed the ball when Dwight is open, or AD inside. All these things to me, will lead a far better impact than trading or replacing half the roster. |
That third option really needs to be a guy who can control things off of bron and AD. Furthermore, Kuz isn’t a good shooter. I’ve screamed that since midway through his rookie year. He’s not, he can make good cuts off ball but he doesn’t understand the difference between a good shot and a great shot. He plays the same position as the two stars of the team so unless you see him playing the 2 (possible but not likely) full-time I don’t see how keeping him if there are perimeter options available is a logical thought process. KCP showed up in playoffs big, but that still doesn’t mean he’s not still the same KCP as we’ve all known the last few years. If you have a way to legit upgrade this roster, Kuzma, 29, and expiring contracts are The way to do it and you can hesitate. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8160
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| babyskyhook wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | ^
Oladipo is more high-risk than CP3 is, to me. Take their contracts out of it: I know CP3 is a Hall Of Fame player who was great last season, and that Oladipo has essentially had one outlier-great season and has been mediocre-to-OK in every other season of his career. And despite CP3's injury history, I would argue that Oladipo's recent injury history (the one catastrophic leg injury) is more problematic. |
Perfect summary- well stated my friend. |
But how do you take the contracts out of it?
It effects the decision immensely. The Paul contract directly impacts the ability to fill out the roster for at least two years.
JMO but neither is worth the risk. |
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hydrohead
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Posts: 4112
Location: Space City
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:13 am Post subject: |
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My attitude on Lakers exceptionism is at a point to where I don't feel they need any other player to opt in other than AD and still be in a good spot to win another chip
F:James
F: Kuzma
C:Davis
G: Caruso
G: Green
PG: Cook
Swingman: THT
Big: Cacok
Go ahead an fill out the roster with one year rentals and eye 2021 FA to get that 3rd star player slightly younger than Davis to keep us on top throughout the decade.
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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| Trade Danny green to salads for #31 pick |
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cannga11
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Posts: 347
Location: Palos Verdes
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Here is an analysis by Hollinger from an article by Oram in The Athletic:
| Quote: | The Lakers won’t have their hands tied, but the luxury tax could be a constraining factor depending on how aggressive they might want to be. Basically, once Anthony Davis signs his max contract, it becomes impossible to sign other players with cap room. However, the Lakers still can re-sign their own players and use cap exceptions to add less expensive pieces.
Let’s assume that Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Rajon Rondo opt out of the final year of their deals and the partially guaranteed deal of little-used Quinn Cook is waived and stretched. (It would count $333,334 against the cap). That would give the Lakers approximately $20 million in room from the tax line and, perhaps more importantly, $25 million from the tax apron. I don’t think the Lakers are going to sweat a few dollars of luxury tax, but the apron matters. Here’s why: The Lakers can use their non-taxpayer midlevel exception (MLE), which would be nearly $10 million in 2020-21, to sign a significant free agent. However, if they use the MLE they must stay below the apron all season.
Work backwards from that number, and you can see how things get tight. There would only be $15 million left for Caldwell-Pope, Rondo and Dwight Howard. Even if they could shoehorn in those contracts to stay a few bucks below the apron, the Lakers’ ability to make moves in-season would be severely compromised.
Sum it all up, and the Lakers might not be able to use their entire MLE if they want to keep last season’s core together. But again, other variables come into play. If the cap number is higher than expected, it gives them more wiggle room. If JaVale McGee opts out of his $4.2 million or Avery Bradley from his $5 million, that adds breathing room, too. |
The Athletic (paywall) |
Could the payroll experts here check if the above analysis correct? It doesn't look very good for keeping all 3 of those guys, does it? 
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:30 am Post subject: |
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It doesn’t if we want the $9 mil MLE. AD’s salary will go up, Lebron’s salary will go up but the cap will likely remain flat. At least we won’t be the only team with that problem.
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Mike@LG
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Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | ^
Oladipo is more high-risk than CP3 is, to me. Take their contracts out of it: I know CP3 is a Hall Of Fame player who was great last season, and that Oladipo has essentially had one outlier-great season and has been mediocre-to-OK in every other season of his career. And despite CP3's injury history, I would argue that Oladipo's recent injury history (the one catastrophic leg injury) is more problematic. |
100%.
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https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | ^
Oladipo is more high-risk than CP3 is, to me. Take their contracts out of it: I know CP3 is a Hall Of Fame player who was great last season, and that Oladipo has essentially had one outlier-great season and has been mediocre-to-OK in every other season of his career. And despite CP3's injury history, I would argue that Oladipo's recent injury history (the one catastrophic leg injury) is more problematic. |
100%. |
having less then 82 games will help us with older guys...like bron and maybe CP3 |
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RI Laker
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7161
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| Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | ^
Oladipo is more high-risk than CP3 is, to me. Take their contracts out of it: I know CP3 is a Hall Of Fame player who was great last season, and that Oladipo has essentially had one outlier-great season and has been mediocre-to-OK in every other season of his career. And despite CP3's injury history, I would argue that Oladipo's recent injury history (the one catastrophic leg injury) is more problematic. |
100%. |
having less then 82 games will help us with older guys...like bron and maybe CP3 |
Good take. I think we will get another year of "Lebron" (if things go well). |
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