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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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 Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Chemistry is gonna sign that 2021 max deal.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | How do we get Oladipo in 2021 |
Need Lebron to opt out, restructure his deal, and take less money for more years.
- or -
Lebron retires/opts out to finish his career in Miami
That's step 1. After that Oladipo has to be healthy, frustrated in Indiana or wherever Indiana trades him if he requests out this summer, and interested in the Lakers.
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5676
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | levon wrote: | | How do we get Oladipo in 2021 |
Need Lebron to opt out, restructure his deal, and take less money. |
I know you said “-or-“ but I want to emphasize the quoted part: you can’t pay him on the backend and cover lost costs that he would face in opting out of his 41m expiring deal. he can recoup lost potential paper, but only on a 2yr re-up maxed out at 70m.
You have to strip the roster clean...no 1st round lucks signed and no cap holds to any players (ie like Kuz, Caruso, THT, etc.) You literally have only AD and Giannis (or whatever 30%max player that 2021 summer), Bron and that’s it.
Only under that scenario, can you max out both AD/Giannis and have enough cap space to re-up Bron to 2yrs/70m. That’s all we can give him too.
The over-38 rule patches exactly that loophole of paying a player on the backend of his contract. For example, we can’t offer a 3yr/90m deal to a 36y/o Bron in 2021, cause the 3rd year of that contract would conflict with over-38 rule. So what happens is that 3rd year counts as zero salary on the cap sheet and gets redistributed proportionally to the years on the deal where he isn’t 38 y/o. So essentially that 3yr/90m deal becomes a 2yr/90m deal where he gets paid 45m per as opposed to 30m. Thing is, you have to have capspace to accommodate that redistribution. So if Bron opts out in 2021 and AD/Giannis are maxed out and we have no other salary or holds on the roster, our available cap space is 34m and that’s why the most we can offer Bron is that 34m + 8% escalators the following year before he reaches 38 y/o.
Now our FO purged the (bleep) out our roster for AD, so maybe they do the same for Giannis. But that’s the only way to do it while keeping Bron on a moderate discount that would have paid him 41m that season.
Now consider the likely scenario where we have our first round and young player cap holds. If Bron opts out, his 2yr/70m bag only gets smaller. |
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fansincemagic
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 11100
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| The clips can have Turner, he was a good fit in his prime but not now. He is a SF version of Rondo, that Kuz and Green and all of their blemishes. |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Chemistry is gonna sign that 2021 max deal. |
The Lakers Chemistry is amazing. Win or lose, I’m riding with these guys. The organization has been through a lot. Rob, Jeanie, Judy, Allison, Lebron, AD, Dwight, Handy, Rondo, Kuz, and all on down the line.
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“You have to dance beautifully in the box that you are comfortable dancing in.” - Kobe Bryant |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | levon wrote: | | How do we get Oladipo in 2021 |
Need Lebron to opt out, restructure his deal, and take less money. |
I know you said “-or-“ but I want to emphasize the quoted part: you can’t pay him on the backend and cover lost costs that he would face in opting out of his 41m expiring deal. he can recoup lost potential paper, but only on a 2yr re-up maxed out at 70m.
You have to strip the roster clean...no 1st round lucks signed and no cap holds to any players (ie like Kuz, Caruso, THT, etc.) You literally have only AD and Giannis (or whatever 30%max player that 2021 summer), Bron and that’s it.
Only under that scenario, can you max out both AD/Giannis and have enough cap space to re-up Bron to 2yrs/70m. That’s all we can give him too.
The over-38 rule patches exactly that loophole of paying a player on the backend of his contract. For example, we can’t offer a 3yr/90m deal to a 36y/o Bron in 2021, cause the 3rd year of that contract would conflict with over-38 rule. So what happens is that 3rd year counts as zero salary on the cap sheet and gets redistributed proportionally to the years on the deal where he isn’t 38 y/o. So essentially that 3yr/90m deal becomes a 2yr/90m deal where he gets paid 45m per as opposed to 30m. Thing is, you have to have capspace to accommodate that redistribution. So if Bron opts out in 2021 and AD/Giannis are maxed out and we have no other salary or holds on the roster, our available cap space is 34m and that’s why the most we can offer Bron is that 34m + 8% escalators the following year before he reaches 38 y/o.
Now our FO purged the (bleep) out our roster for AD, so maybe they do the same for Giannis. But that’s the only way to do it while keeping Bron on a moderate discount that would have paid him 41m that season.
Now consider the likely scenario where we have our first round and young player cap holds. If Bron opts out, his 2yr/70m bag only gets smaller. |
Great info since the over-38 rule is new territory for the Lakers under the current CBA.
A healthy Oladipo is 2-3x better than LaVine, but there's no realistic pathway toward adding a max free agent in 2021. Idk who will be the best FA in 2022, but Lebron and LaVine coming off the books that year would open up a lot of potential cap space.
ZLV would create a massive defensive hole that would need to be addressed by better perimeter defenders than Bradley and KCP, but his PnR and iso creation has been good enough to obviate the need for a playmaking PG like the older Dragic and flawed Jeff Teague. So the Lakers could focus the MLE on big wing defense.
Maybe something like the following:
Bradley/Caruso/Rondo (politics)
LaVine/KCP/THT
Lebron/Harkless (partial or full-MLE)
AD
McGee/Howard/Cousins
With three open roster spots that can be filled via the mini-MLE and vet minimum contracts.
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Last edited by Baron Von Humongous on Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Outspoken
Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8468
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| It seems like the clippers are just adding pieces and not really caring about chemistry. |
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drae
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Joined: 13 Nov 2018
Posts: 16145
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Evan Turner?
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StoicChalice392
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1725
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Ever been to Creamistry? Amazing. |
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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 32129
Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | levon wrote: | | How do we get Oladipo in 2021 |
Need Lebron to opt out, restructure his deal, and take less money for more years.
- or -
Lebron retires/opts out to finish his career in Miami
That's step 1. After that Oladipo has to be healthy, frustrated in Indiana or wherever Indiana trades him if he requests out this summer, and interested in the Lakers. |
It's distinctly possible that his '17-18 was an outlier, if not outright likely that it was. |
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PHILosophize
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Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10758
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| StoicChalice392 wrote: | | Ever been to Creamistry? Amazing. |
is it better than cold stone
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one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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SGVL1
Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Apr 2014
Posts: 845
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| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Chemistry is gonna sign that 2021 max deal. |
The Lakers Chemistry is amazing. Win or lose, I’m riding with these guys. The organization has been through a lot. Rob, Jeanie, Judy, Allison, Lebron, AD, Dwight, Handy, Rondo, Kuz, and all on down the line. |
Ride or die I’m guessing until about May 15 or so .... |
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Mamba81
Star Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2019
Posts: 2027
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Chemistry is gonna sign that 2021 max deal. |
The Lakers Chemistry is amazing. Win or lose, I’m riding with these guys. The organization has been through a lot. Rob, Jeanie, Judy, Allison, Lebron, AD, Dwight, Handy, Rondo, Kuz, and all on down the line. |
awww ❤️
too bad chemistry don't win titles. talent does.
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Kobe Forever |
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KOBEWEST
Sixth Man
Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Mamba81 wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Chemistry is gonna sign that 2021 max deal. |
The Lakers Chemistry is amazing. Win or lose, I’m riding with these guys. The organization has been through a lot. Rob, Jeanie, Judy, Allison, Lebron, AD, Dwight, Handy, Rondo, Kuz, and all on down the line. |
awww ❤️
too bad chemistry don't win titles. talent does. |
I once saw a list of the 10 most important factors to winning an NBA championship, chemistry was number 1 on that list . If you don’t think that it’s important then you haven’t been watching very closely |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| KOBEWEST wrote: | | I once saw a list of the 10 most important factors to winning an NBA championship, chemistry was number 1 on that list . If you don’t think that it’s important then you haven’t been watching very closely |
I wouldn't dispute that chemistry is important, but it's not number one. If you don't have championship quality players, it doesn't matter how much they like playing with each other. A team can develop chemistry. A team cannot manufacture quality. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | KOBEWEST wrote: | | I once saw a list of the 10 most important factors to winning an NBA championship, chemistry was number 1 on that list . If you don’t think that it’s important then you haven’t been watching very closely |
I wouldn't dispute that chemistry is important, but it's not number one. If you don't have championship quality players, it doesn't matter how much they like playing with each other. A team can develop chemistry. A team cannot manufacture quality. |
See: Shaq and Kobe
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17145
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| Mamba81 wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Chemistry is gonna sign that 2021 max deal. |
The Lakers Chemistry is amazing. Win or lose, I’m riding with these guys. The organization has been through a lot. Rob, Jeanie, Judy, Allison, Lebron, AD, Dwight, Handy, Rondo, Kuz, and all on down the line. |
awww ❤️
too bad chemistry don't win titles. talent does. |
2004 NBA Finals says  , as do the 2011, 2014 and several others.
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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Hero Ball
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 4403
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| Walter White has both talent and chemistry and still lost. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144559
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Mamba81 wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Chemistry is gonna sign that 2021 max deal. |
The Lakers Chemistry is amazing. Win or lose, I’m riding with these guys. The organization has been through a lot. Rob, Jeanie, Judy, Allison, Lebron, AD, Dwight, Handy, Rondo, Kuz, and all on down the line. |
awww ❤️
too bad chemistry don't win titles. talent does. |
2004 NBA Finals says , as do the 2011, 2014 and several others. |
I didn’t realize that the Pistons didn’t have a lot of talent.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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scout0_0
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Jul 2019
Posts: 918
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Mamba81 wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Chemistry is gonna sign that 2021 max deal. |
The Lakers Chemistry is amazing. Win or lose, I’m riding with these guys. The organization has been through a lot. Rob, Jeanie, Judy, Allison, Lebron, AD, Dwight, Handy, Rondo, Kuz, and all on down the line. |
awww ❤️
too bad chemistry don't win titles. talent does. |
2004 NBA Finals says , as do the 2011, 2014 and several others. |
Championships are won with defense right? That Pistons team was as TALENTED as they come on the defensive side. |
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vasashi17+
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5676
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Karl Malone injury says hi too...dude had more talent in his elbow than most players today.
This chemistry narrative is a wild one. I understand why Rob would have a hard time addressing the trade deadline and personnel in general after he lost his guy...but that just shines the light on our FO even more in bringing in more folks. If Rob can’t do it for whatever reason, we got other folks in the FO that can.
@BVH, I like that roster a lot bro and here are possible top flight 2022 FAs:
James Harden HOU SG PO $42,782,880
John Wall WAS PG PO $42,782,880
Russell Westbrook HOU PG PO $41,358,814
Kevin Durant BKN SF PO $41,063,925
Stephen Curry GSW PG UFA $40,231,758
Chris Paul OKC PG UFA $39,932,648
LeBron James LAL SF UFA $38,328,212
Bradley Beal WAS SG PO $35,882,215
Kemba Walker BOS PG PO $35,197,650
Jimmy Butler MIA SG PO $35,197,650
Kawhi Leonard LAC SF UFA $34,379,100
Blake Griffin DET PF UFA $34,234,964
Paul George LAC SF UFA $34,227,984
Kyrie Irving BKN PG PO $34,122,650
Jrue Holiday NOP PG UFA $26,361,000
Gary Harris DEN SG UFA $21,000,000
Julius Randle NYK PF UFA $20,700,000
Aaron Gordon ORL PF UFA $20,000,000
Zach LaVine CHI SG UFA $19,500,000
Terry Rozier CHA PG UFA $18,900,000
Last edited by vasashi17+ on Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144559
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Key name being Lebron James
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | Mamba81 wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Chemistry is gonna sign that 2021 max deal. |
The Lakers Chemistry is amazing. Win or lose, I’m riding with these guys. The organization has been through a lot. Rob, Jeanie, Judy, Allison, Lebron, AD, Dwight, Handy, Rondo, Kuz, and all on down the line. |
awww ❤️
too bad chemistry don't win titles. talent does. |
2004 NBA Finals says , as do the 2011, 2014 and several others. |
We don't even get to the 2004 Finals without overwhelming talent. That's the point. Chemistry issues may have cost us in the end, though the Malone injury certainly contributed. But the Spurs and TWolves probably had us beat on chemistry. How much good did it do them? |
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scout0_0
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Jul 2019
Posts: 918
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Give me Lillard and AD for the next 10 years  |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46863
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Which player from this list intrigues you guys as a possible off season target?
Zach LaVine
Buddy Hield
Joe Harris
Goran Dragic
Luke Kennard
Spencer Dinwiddie
Bradley Beal |
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