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venturalakersfan
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 Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| PengShow wrote: | I'd absolutely trade the farm if presented with the opportunity of getting a player like AD, do people not realise he's only 25 years old?
He can be the 1B to LeBron's 1A and then take over after LeBron has retired. |
Basically AD is about a year older than Hart and Kuzma. No Laker is untradable for him.
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Holiday, after his year with Rondo last year, is a whole helluva lot better as a lead guard than he’s ever been before. I concede that.
But he’s still not enough.
Miritic is perfect next to Davis. He’s a great fourth option.
Holiday is a solid combo guard. He’s a number three option.
They should have traded Cousins before he got hurt (that twin towers was an awful experiment). The Pels need a leader and a wing scorer. A simple trade of Cousins for Otto Porter when they already had Rondo would’ve improved their team much more Han the addition of Randle.
But they don’t have a clue what they’re doing. Just look at their roster. Their execs have ZERO vision in roster construction — zero.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | Holiday, after his year with Rondo last year, is a whole helluva lot better as a lead guard than he’s ever been before. I concede that.
But he’s still not enough.
Miritic is perfect next to Davis. He’s a great fourth option.
Holiday is a solid combo guard. He’s a number three option.
They should have traded Cousins before he got hurt (that twin towers was an awful experiment). The Pels need a leader and a wing scorer. A simple trade of Cousins for Otto Porter when they already had Rondo would’ve improved their team much more Han the addition of Randle.
But they don’t have a clue what they’re doing. Just look at their roster. Their execs have ZERO vision in roster construction — zero. |
Wasn't Julius just a BPA bargain for the Pels?
I think he was too good to pass up at the price.
But I agree they'd be better off with a wing... and thank God for us they don't have one. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | KD won 50 games with garbage players |
Like Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka?
I hope the Pels GM thinks exactly like you. Maybe we can get him for cheap then.  |
Typo... I meant KG won with Sprewell and Szcerbiak |
Sam Cassell? Those are good players. |
Julius, Jrue Holiday, Boogie, Mirotic, Rondo were also good.
My point is either the injuries or his play aren't good enough to make a difference with his team
Does it really matter which it is?
Joe Pesci made some good points about poor fit... but great players win despite fit as LBJ has proven over and over. |
The Pelicans made the conference semi-finals and had a better series against the champs than Lebron’s team did.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | I think of Miller as E'tawn Moore in this analogy... the sharp shooter |
Oh my. Ok. Have a good day.  |
Miller played shooting guard as well as small forward... was he a lockdown defender? |
He was 6'8, their point forward. Marksmen shooter. Much better player than Moore. |
Moore has been as good as Miller shooting the last four years on fairly decent volume. I don't think it's as laughable as you did... though time will tell. |
It's not just shooting. Miller was a gifted playmaker at forward and shot creator. Versatile player. There's a reason why LBJ wanted him on the HEAT when he was older and in his mid 30s.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | KD won 50 games with garbage players |
Like Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka?
I hope the Pels GM thinks exactly like you. Maybe we can get him for cheap then. |
Typo... I meant KG won with Sprewell and Szcerbiak |
Sam Cassell? Those are good players. |
Julius, Jrue Holiday, Boogie, Mirotic, Rondo were also good.
My point is either the injuries or his play aren't good enough to make a difference with his team
Does it really matter which it is?
Joe Pesci made some good points about poor fit... but great players win despite fit as LBJ has proven over and over. |
The Pelicans made the conference semi-finals and had a better series against the champs than Lebron’s team did. |
Thanks mostly to Rondo.
No one questions whether AD is a top five player including myself.
My question is only are we better off with a player on the second tier and four or five assets or with Davis and without those assets.
To me at least it should be a debate... I don't get those who say it will be definitively better... especially with his record.
The irony is some are saying he needs the right point guard to succeed but most 3 superstar scenarios have us losing the point guards.
It might come down to whether Bonga is a hidden star... which is possible in a year or two. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | Davis ain’t James.
Davis can’t control tempo.
Bigmen, those who don’t act as “point forwards”, have a really hard time in this NBA without a dominant ball-handler to play with (or a very talented supported cast).
Gasol, Cousins, Davis, and Towns have all had difficult times asserting their dominance and transforming their talent into wins. It’s 5e nature of this wing dominated era.
Add to this the ineptness of the Pelicans’ front office and you have the situation that Davis is currently in.
And you can keep mentioning Holiday till you’re blue in the face. Up until last year, when Holiday was moved more off ball in favor of a traditional point in Rondo, he was an average lead guard at best.
In this Western Conference, in this three-happy era, Holiday and Miritic isn’t enough to win fifty games.
Davis isn’t a leader. That team needed a leader and let him go in favor of Randle, a guy who right now is all about his next contract.
The team was never built properly. Give Davis Cassell, Sprewell, and Sczcerbiak and they’re infinitely better than this present New Orleans team.
Front offices matter. Unless you have transcendent ball handlers and/or shooters, in this era, talent cannot usurp or supplant front office ineptness. |
Maybe it has escaped you but the Pelican management structure has changed since the death of Mr. Benson. Things aren’t the same. Look at how the Saints are managed, those same executives are now overseeing the Pelicans.
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | Holiday, after his year with Rondo last year, is a whole helluva lot better as a lead guard than he’s ever been before. I concede that.
But he’s still not enough.
Miritic is perfect next to Davis. He’s a great fourth option.
Holiday is a solid combo guard. He’s a number three option.
They should have traded Cousins before he got hurt (that twin towers was an awful experiment). The Pels need a leader and a wing scorer. A simple trade of Cousins for Otto Porter when they already had Rondo would’ve improved their team much more Han the addition of Randle.
But they don’t have a clue what they’re doing. Just look at their roster. Their execs have ZERO vision in roster construction — zero. |
Wasn't Julius just a BPA bargain for the Pels?
I think he was too good to pass up at the price.
But I agree they'd be better off with a wing... and thank God for us they don't have one. |
They’ve never really had a vision or plan. Everything that team has ever done has been by virtue of flying by the seat of their pants.
Davis never had a chance with this organization. This year, to me, Davis is clearly eyeing the door, especially with Randle going so hard after “his”.
It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Davis ask out this year. The writings been on the wall for quite a while now actually. Some of these dudes are too loyal/nice for their own good.
Personally, I loved Durant going to the Warriors, Eff what others think. Go get your own happiness, regardless of the outcry.
Davis, and Garnett before him, should’ve asked out a lot sooner.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Thanks mostly to Rondo. |
See, it's stuff like this that makes it difficult to take your analysis seriously.
Here's AD's playoff stats (9 games):
30ppg/13.4rpg/2.3 blocks in 40mpg
Rondo (9 games):
10ppg/12apg/7.5 rpg.
Rondo had a very nice playoff run, but AD had a spectacular run. Led the NBA in rebounds per game, top 3 in points per game. He played 40 mpg. Take that away from the team and replace him with a replacement level player and that team: 1) doesn't make the playoffs; 2) doesn't win a round.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | Davis ain’t James.
Davis can’t control tempo.
Bigmen, those who don’t act as “point forwards”, have a really hard time in this NBA without a dominant ball-handler to play with (or a very talented supported cast).
Gasol, Cousins, Davis, and Towns have all had difficult times asserting their dominance and transforming their talent into wins. It’s 5e nature of this wing dominated era.
Add to this the ineptness of the Pelicans’ front office and you have the situation that Davis is currently in.
And you can keep mentioning Holiday till you’re blue in the face. Up until last year, when Holiday was moved more off ball in favor of a traditional point in Rondo, he was an average lead guard at best.
In this Western Conference, in this three-happy era, Holiday and Miritic isn’t enough to win fifty games.
Davis isn’t a leader. That team needed a leader and let him go in favor of Randle, a guy who right now is all about his next contract.
The team was never built properly. Give Davis Cassell, Sprewell, and Sczcerbiak and they’re infinitely better than this present New Orleans team.
Front offices matter. Unless you have transcendent ball handlers and/or shooters, in this era, talent cannot usurp or supplant front office ineptness. |
Maybe it has escaped you but the Pelican management structure has changed since the death of Mr. Benson. Things aren’t the same. Look at how the Saints are managed, those same executives are now overseeing the Pelicans. |
When AD joins the Lakers, maybe you can cheer for the Lakers again!
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | KD won 50 games with garbage players |
Like Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka?
I hope the Pels GM thinks exactly like you. Maybe we can get him for cheap then. |
Typo... I meant KG won with Sprewell and Szcerbiak |
Sam Cassell? Those are good players. |
Julius, Jrue Holiday, Boogie, Mirotic, Rondo were also good.
My point is either the injuries or his play aren't good enough to make a difference with his team
Does it really matter which it is?
Joe Pesci made some good points about poor fit... but great players win despite fit as LBJ has proven over and over. |
The Pelicans made the conference semi-finals and had a better series against the champs than Lebron’s team did. |
Thanks mostly to Rondo.
. |
That’s not correct
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Thanks mostly to Rondo. |
See, it's stuff like this that makes it difficult to take your analysis seriously.
Here's AD's playoff stats (9 games):
30ppg/13.4rpg/2.3 blocks in 40mpg
Rondo (9 games):
10ppg/12apg/7.5 rpg.
Rondo had a very nice playoff run, but AD had a spectacular run. Led the NBA in rebounds per game, top 3 in points per game. He played 40 mpg. Take that away from the team and replace him with a replacement level player and that team: 1) doesn't make the playoffs; 2) doesn't win a round. |
But ADs 30 points are the constant.
He always scores in the high twenties and it's not enough
The thing that changed their record is that Rondo was the added ingredient.
You need certain complimentary players to unlock the winning...LeBron would get there with Delonte West and Mo Williams... I don't think Davis can. |
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Jesusdelonla
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Thanks mostly to Rondo. |
See, it's stuff like this that makes it difficult to take your analysis seriously.
Here's AD's playoff stats (9 games):
30ppg/13.4rpg/2.3 blocks in 40mpg
Rondo (9 games):
10ppg/12apg/7.5 rpg.
Rondo had a very nice playoff run, but AD had a spectacular run. Led the NBA in rebounds per game, top 3 in points per game. He played 40 mpg. Take that away from the team and replace him with a replacement level player and that team: 1) doesn't make the playoffs; 2) doesn't win a round. |
troll2
/trōl/
noun
noun: troll; plural noun: trolls
1.
a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post.
informal
a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting.
2.
a line or bait used in trolling for fish. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Thanks mostly to Rondo. |
See, it's stuff like this that makes it difficult to take your analysis seriously.
Here's AD's playoff stats (9 games):
30ppg/13.4rpg/2.3 blocks in 40mpg
Rondo (9 games):
10ppg/12apg/7.5 rpg.
Rondo had a very nice playoff run, but AD had a spectacular run. Led the NBA in rebounds per game, top 3 in points per game. He played 40 mpg. Take that away from the team and replace him with a replacement level player and that team: 1) doesn't make the playoffs; 2) doesn't win a round. |
But ADs 30 points are the constant.
He always scores in the high twenties and it's not enough
The thing that changed their record is that Rondo was the added ingredient.
You need certain complimentary players to unlock the winning...LeBron would get there with Delonte West and Mo Williams... I don't think Davis can. |
Here we go again. So now LBJ, probably a top 2 player all time is now the standard?
30/13 isn't good enough for you in the playoffs? My goodness.
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Thanks mostly to Rondo. |
See, it's stuff like this that makes it difficult to take your analysis seriously.
Here's AD's playoff stats (9 games):
30ppg/13.4rpg/2.3 blocks in 40mpg
Rondo (9 games):
10ppg/12apg/7.5 rpg.
Rondo had a very nice playoff run, but AD had a spectacular run. Led the NBA in rebounds per game, top 3 in points per game. He played 40 mpg. Take that away from the team and replace him with a replacement level player and that team: 1) doesn't make the playoffs; 2) doesn't win a round. |
But ADs 30 points are the constant.
He always scores in the high twenties and it's not enough
The thing that changed their record is that Rondo was the added ingredient.
You need certain complimentary players to unlock the winning...LeBron would get there with Delonte West and Mo Williams... I don't think Davis can. |
Here we go again. So now LBJ, probably a top 2 player all time is now the standard?
30/13 isn't good enough for you in the playoffs? My goodness. |
You're missing the point.
I'd trade the core for young Shaq or young LBJ... I'm hesitant to do so for a 25 year old Davis.
Can we win with AD/KD/LBJ?
Yes... but as I outlined before... no one can get hurt, LBJ can't get old yet and we need to get really lucky on minimum signings. |
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daytripper
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| noahp45 wrote: | | When AD goes to Boston, who will be the new pipe Dream? |
Yeah that's my assumption too that Ainge is finally going to empty his warchest of assets when AD hits the market. Boston has a disgusting 4 potential FRP's next draft in addition to Tatum, Brown, etc. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Yes... but as I outlined before... no one can get hurt, LBJ can't get old yet and we need to get really lucky on minimum signings. |
You mean like the HEAT team that was stocked with minimum signings?
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Yes... but as I outlined before... no one can get hurt, LBJ can't get old yet and we need to get really lucky on minimum signings. |
You mean like the HEAT team that was stocked with minimum signings? |
Yes, but in this analogy... all three Heat players are in their prime...and Ray Allen falls in their lap for cheap.
Davis gets injured... LBJ is old... we don't even know if we have KD or Kawhi locked down.
Look at the Heat now. Nowhere close to a championship and that's with a top executive in Riley and having had three great players in their primes
Again, I'm not saying you guys are wrong... clearly I'm in the minority here
But I think I'm making a fair point, so I will defend it. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: |
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I’m surprised more people aren’t concerned about why AD can’t lead this team to being better. Maybe, he puts up great numbers but can’t lead? That would make him more of a #2 type guy.
He has sufficient talent to at least make some noise, be better than sac, memphis, etc. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | I’m surprised more people aren’t concerned about why AD can’t lead this team to being better. Maybe, he puts up great numbers but can’t lead? That would make him more of a #2 type guy.
He has sufficient talent to at least make some noise, be better than sac, memphis, etc. |
Isn't that why you want him with LBJ and KD?
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I’m surprised more people aren’t concerned about why AD can’t lead this team to being better. Maybe, he puts up great numbers but can’t lead? That would make him more of a #2 type guy.
He has sufficient talent to at least make some noise, be better than sac, memphis, etc. |
Isn't that why you want him with LBJ and KD? |
Maybe. Depends on who else I have around them. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I’m surprised more people aren’t concerned about why AD can’t lead this team to being better. Maybe, he puts up great numbers but can’t lead? That would make him more of a #2 type guy.
He has sufficient talent to at least make some noise, be better than sac, memphis, etc. |
Isn't that why you want him with LBJ and KD? |
Maybe. Depends on who else I have around them. |
That's the whole point/question. Not about whether AD himself can get a team to the Finals. It's a baseline of LBJ/AD, and if we hit a grandslam, LBJ/AD/KD.
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Joe Pesci
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Thanks mostly to Rondo. |
See, it's stuff like this that makes it difficult to take your analysis seriously.
Here's AD's playoff stats (9 games):
30ppg/13.4rpg/2.3 blocks in 40mpg
Rondo (9 games):
10ppg/12apg/7.5 rpg.
Rondo had a very nice playoff run, but AD had a spectacular run. Led the NBA in rebounds per game, top 3 in points per game. He played 40 mpg. Take that away from the team and replace him with a replacement level player and that team: 1) doesn't make the playoffs; 2) doesn't win a round. |
But ADs 30 points are the constant.
He always scores in the high twenties and it's not enough
The thing that changed their record is that Rondo was the added ingredient.
You need certain complimentary players to unlock the winning...LeBron would get there with Delonte West and Mo Williams... I don't think Davis can. |
Agreed.
Rondo was the leader they needed. He helped Davis and Holiday become better players.
Intangibles are real people. There is no stat for spirit.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Thanks mostly to Rondo. |
See, it's stuff like this that makes it difficult to take your analysis seriously.
Here's AD's playoff stats (9 games):
30ppg/13.4rpg/2.3 blocks in 40mpg
Rondo (9 games):
10ppg/12apg/7.5 rpg.
Rondo had a very nice playoff run, but AD had a spectacular run. Led the NBA in rebounds per game, top 3 in points per game. He played 40 mpg. Take that away from the team and replace him with a replacement level player and that team: 1) doesn't make the playoffs; 2) doesn't win a round. |
But ADs 30 points are the constant.
He always scores in the high twenties and it's not enough
The thing that changed their record is that Rondo was the added ingredient.
You need certain complimentary players to unlock the winning...LeBron would get there with Delonte West and Mo Williams... I don't think Davis can. |
Agreed.
Rondo was the leader they needed. He helped Davis and Holiday become better players.
Intangibles are real people. There is no stat for spirit. |
If you want to talk about leadership, that's a different topic. I agree AD isn't a leader or alpha guy.
But that isn't the focus and reason why we should/shouldn't pursue AD on a team with LBJ. Heck, KD isn't even a leader IMO, but that makes him a good guy to have with LBJ.
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | Yes... but as I outlined before... no one can get hurt, LBJ can't get old yet and we need to get really lucky on minimum signings. |
You mean like the HEAT team that was stocked with minimum signings? |
Yes, but in this analogy... all three Heat players are in their prime...and Ray Allen falls in their lap for cheap.
Davis gets injured... LBJ is old... we don't even know if we have KD or Kawhi locked down.
Look at the Heat now. Nowhere close to a championship and that's with a top executive in Riley and having had three great players in their primes
Again, I'm not saying you guys are wrong... clearly I'm in the minority here
But I think I'm making a fair point, so I will defend it. |
Are you arguing that LBJ/KD/Kuzma/Ball/BI is better than LBJ/KD/AD/vets or mins? |
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