Jimmy Butler (at half the cost of Kawhi)?
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Dr. Laker
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:55 am    Post subject: Jimmy Butler (at half the cost of Kawhi)?

Send them Hart/Deng and a #1. Butler is a solid 2-way player, scores, defends and playmakers well.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: Jimmy Butler (at half the cost of Kawhi)?

Dr. Laker wrote:
Send them Hart/Deng and a #1. Butler is a solid 2-way player, scores, defends and playmakers well.


Hmm. Do we know if he would re-sign after this year?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:04 am    Post subject:

would be hesitant betting on Butler aging well....Thibs has put a ton of miles on those legs.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:32 am    Post subject:



How is Butler half the price of Kawhi when both would be asking for a max of $30 million due to both of them beginning their 8th year in the league in 2019? They are the exact same price.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:35 am    Post subject:

Big Game James wrote:


How is Butler half the price of Kawhi when both would be asking for a max of $30 million due to both of them beginning their 8th year in the league in 2019? They are the exact same price.


Think he means half the cost in trade value?
Not sure why though.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:37 am    Post subject:

This would expect the moon. Kuzma/Hart/Deng and a 1st.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:54 am    Post subject:

Hart and 1st is a laughable offer, even assuming Thibs considers Deng an asset. Butler is arguably the most impactful two way wing in the game. All NBA, top 5 in RPM, main reason for the Wolves winning 15+ more games this season.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: Jimmy Butler (at half the cost of Kawhi)?

epak wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Send them Hart/Deng and a #1. Butler is a solid 2-way player, scores, defends and playmakers well.


Hmm. Do we know if he would re-sign after this year?


them taking Deng, a 1st and Hart? do we even care at this point then? we get out of Dengs contract at the cost of one 1st rounder and Josh (who i love), AND add a max slot next summer that can be his, or Kawhis in case he leaves
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GOODRICH25
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
This would expect the moon. Kuzma/Hart/Deng and a 1st.


i know they probably dont do this suggested proposal, but are they sure he stays beyond this year?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:00 am    Post subject:

Ball plus Butler vs. Leonard
Ingram plus Butler vs. Leonard
Kuzma plus Butler vs. Leonard

During their last healthy year... Butler's value over replacement player was the same as Kawhi's.

If you can keep all three of the core... I'd say better to get Butler.

If you can get rid of Deng... even better.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:02 am    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
This would expect the moon. Kuzma/Hart/Deng and a 1st.


i know they probably dont do this suggested proposal, but are they sure he stays beyond this year?


I doubt he stays....I think there is a good chance Butler leaves next year. Some speculation about Philly and even some about returning to Chicago if they can look like they are ready to be competitive again. Seems like the dude does not like KAT or Wiggins....and the TWolves are not moving both of those guys for him.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:05 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Big Game James wrote:


How is Butler half the price of Kawhi when both would be asking for a max of $30 million due to both of them beginning their 8th year in the league in 2019? They are the exact same price.


Think he means half the cost in trade value?
Not sure why though.


Half the cost in value? I thought we were already low-balling the Spurs. What is half of a low-ball and why would we assume that we can get Butler for half the cost? Kawhi has killed his market value by claiming his allegiance to the Lakers. Thus no one is willing to offer anything to get Kawhi. What has Butler done other than claim he dislikes playing with kids (mind you that is what we have on our team)?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:09 am    Post subject:

Jimmy is Kyrie's close friend, so I don't know if he's all that enamored to play under Lebron (but he seems more like the guy who wants to win first and foremost rather than being the "man")
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:14 am    Post subject:

cyborgspider wrote:
Jimmy is Kyrie's close friend, so I don't know if he's all that enamored to play under Lebron (but he seems more like the guy who wants to win first and foremost rather than being the "man")


Jimmy comes here now for a package centered around Ball and Deng, and next year we get Kyrie as a free agent (if not KL) ...
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject:

Butler is nice, but he is no Leonard
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject:

Darkndeep wrote:
cyborgspider wrote:
Jimmy is Kyrie's close friend, so I don't know if he's all that enamored to play under Lebron (but he seems more like the guy who wants to win first and foremost rather than being the "man")


Jimmy comes here now for a package centered around Ball and Deng, and next year we get Kyrie as a free agent (if not KL) ...


LOL @ Kyrie playing with Lebron ever again. Dude made 3 finals in a row with Lebron and still wanted out, Kyrie to LA is not happening.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:45 am    Post subject:

where24happens wrote:
Darkndeep wrote:
cyborgspider wrote:
Jimmy is Kyrie's close friend, so I don't know if he's all that enamored to play under Lebron (but he seems more like the guy who wants to win first and foremost rather than being the "man")


Jimmy comes here now for a package centered around Ball and Deng, and next year we get Kyrie as a free agent (if not KL) ...


LOL @ Kyrie playing with Lebron ever again. Dude made 3 finals in a row with Lebron and still wanted out, Kyrie to LA is not happening.


I think LeBron has shown that he is really most concerned with assembling the best team, not friends. Besides, NBA players kiss and make up all of the time. Besides, besides, as I said: maybe we get KL instead. Right now, we have no offer on the table that gets us KL, and putting all of our eggs in that basket next year may get us no further than the PG egg basket got us this year. SA is trying to gut us: if we could get one star now (Butler) of comparable quality to PG, and get rid of Deng, AND still get a third star of a KL/Kyrie caliber now, all for just giving up just one of our young guns (and the one who seems most at risk to be a bust), I think we have to think about that.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:58 am    Post subject:

I wonder if Boston and Phili are also looking at Butler.

It should take a smaller trade package for Butler than KL.

Kyrie wants to find a way to play with Butler. Maybe trading for Butler would make it more likely Kyrie resigns with Boston.

If either Phili or Boston trade for Butler, would be one less team to compete for KL in trade.

I would be surprised if Minn takes that package with Hart/Deng/1st. It would take more. Still if there was a way to construct a package that includes Deng but not include Ball/BI I think you do it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject:

LakerFan1972 wrote:
I wonder if Boston and Phili are also looking at Butler.

It should take a smaller trade package for Butler than KL.

Kyrie wants to find a way to play with Butler. Maybe trading for Butler would make it more likely Kyrie resigns with Boston.

If either Phili or Boston trade for Butler, would be one less team to compete for KL in trade.

I would be surprised if Minn takes that package with Hart/Deng/1st. It would take more. Still if there was a way to construct a package that includes Deng but not include Ball/BI I think you do it.


Boston gave Butler a pretty thorough tire kicking last year, so you know they are interested and, yes, it would make a lot of sense for them to get him to help secure Kyrie.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: Jimmy Butler (at half the cost of Kawhi)?

GOODRICH25 wrote:
epak wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Send them Hart/Deng and a #1. Butler is a solid 2-way player, scores, defends and playmakers well.


Hmm. Do we know if he would re-sign after this year?


them taking Deng, a 1st and Hart? do we even care at this point then? we get out of Dengs contract at the cost of one 1st rounder and Josh (who i love), AND add a max slot next summer that can be his, or Kawhis in case he leaves


Who knows. Perhaps they want continuity, since Lebron has mentioned it takes time to gel?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject:

Big Game James wrote:
epak wrote:
Big Game James wrote:


How is Butler half the price of Kawhi when both would be asking for a max of $30 million due to both of them beginning their 8th year in the league in 2019? They are the exact same price.


Think he means half the cost in trade value?
Not sure why though.


Half the cost in value? I thought we were already low-balling the Spurs. What is half of a low-ball and why would we assume that we can get Butler for half the cost? Kawhi has killed his market value by claiming his allegiance to the Lakers. Thus no one is willing to offer anything to get Kawhi. What has Butler done other than claim he dislikes playing with kids (mind you that is what we have on our team)?


I guess I shouldn't speak for the OP, but since he just left us with this question and bolted...

When I first read this thread, I read it as this:

1) He was talking about half the cost in a trade (meaning what we would give up)
2) He was talking about that Larry Coon mention of the ridiculous offer of BI,Kuz,Hart,Picks.
3) It's not really "half" but I understood what he meant.


If you read it some other way, so be it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:58 am    Post subject:

I wouldn't say Butler is half the cost of Kawhi. I also have concerns Butler would resign as I read he is very interested in playing with Kyrie and Celtics can offer better trade offer.

Kawhi - Deng, Ingram, Hart, 2019 pick, 2021 pick, right to swap picks in 2020. We would decrease the number of assets sent if we don't send Deng out.

Butler - Deng, Ingram, 2019 pick, 2021 pick, right to swap picks in 2020. We would decrease the number of assets sent if we don't send Deng out.

They key sticking point is Deng as we have to consider that it requires assets to move Deng's contract and assets to acquire the All Star player.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:07 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Big Game James wrote:
epak wrote:
Big Game James wrote:


How is Butler half the price of Kawhi when both would be asking for a max of $30 million due to both of them beginning their 8th year in the league in 2019? They are the exact same price.


Think he means half the cost in trade value?
Not sure why though.


Half the cost in value? I thought we were already low-balling the Spurs. What is half of a low-ball and why would we assume that we can get Butler for half the cost? Kawhi has killed his market value by claiming his allegiance to the Lakers. Thus no one is willing to offer anything to get Kawhi. What has Butler done other than claim he dislikes playing with kids (mind you that is what we have on our team)?


I guess I shouldn't speak for the OP, but since he just left us with this question and bolted...

When I first read this thread, I read it as this:

1) He was talking about half the cost in a trade (meaning what we would give up)
2) He was talking about that Larry Coon mention of the ridiculous offer of BI,Kuz,Hart,Picks.
3) It's not really "half" but I understood what he meant.


If you read it some other way, so be it.


TY - had a work thing to take care of, but:

*Yes, "half the cost" means acquisition cost. Why? Butler is not fitting in and it is easier to get rid of him than KAT & Wiggins, plus Thibs LIKES Deng. Hart & the #1 are solid assets, but if Butler walks, we will still have on the order of $50MM in capspace to bring in a max Robin;

*I'd really like to hang on to BI & Kuz, if for no other reason than to see how much they appreciate in value/improve their games playing with LBJ;

*Butler is not Kawhi, but the difference is not vast and is mitigated by keeping BI & Kuz. Also, if it works out well, he's built in to resign at a less than supermax but still impressive $32 million.
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Last edited by Dr. Laker on Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject:

chekmatex4 wrote:
I wouldn't say Butler is half the cost of Kawhi. I also have concerns Butler would resign as I read he is very interested in playing with Kyrie and Celtics can offer better trade offer.

Kawhi - Deng, Ingram, Hart, 2019 pick, 2021 pick, right to swap picks in 2020. We would decrease the number of assets sent if we don't send Deng out.

Butler - Deng, Ingram, 2019 pick, 2021 pick, right to swap picks in 2020. We would decrease the number of assets sent if we don't send Deng out.

They key sticking point is Deng as we have to consider that it requires assets to move Deng's contract and assets to acquire the All Star player.


My thinking is that we work a deal that does NOT cost us BI or Kuz. If we're moving one of those guys, we might as well hang in there for Kawhi.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
epak wrote:
Big Game James wrote:
epak wrote:
Big Game James wrote:


How is Butler half the price of Kawhi when both would be asking for a max of $30 million due to both of them beginning their 8th year in the league in 2019? They are the exact same price.


Think he means half the cost in trade value?
Not sure why though.


Half the cost in value? I thought we were already low-balling the Spurs. What is half of a low-ball and why would we assume that we can get Butler for half the cost? Kawhi has killed his market value by claiming his allegiance to the Lakers. Thus no one is willing to offer anything to get Kawhi. What has Butler done other than claim he dislikes playing with kids (mind you that is what we have on our team)?


I guess I shouldn't speak for the OP, but since he just left us with this question and bolted...

When I first read this thread, I read it as this:

1) He was talking about half the cost in a trade (meaning what we would give up)
2) He was talking about that Larry Coon mention of the ridiculous offer of BI,Kuz,Hart,Picks.
3) It's not really "half" but I understood what he meant.


If you read it some other way, so be it.


TY - had a work thing to take care of, but:

*Yes, "half the cost" means acquisition cost. Why? Butler is not fitting in and it is easier to get rid of him than KAT & Wiggins, plus Thibs LIKES Deng. Hart & the #1 are solid assets, but if Butler walks, we will still have on the order of $50MM in capspace to bring in a max Robin;

*I'd really like to hang on to BI & Kuz, if for no other reason than to see how much they appreciate in value/improve their games playing with LBJ;

*Butler is not Kawhi, but the difference is not vast and is mitigated by keeping BI & Kuz. Also, if it works out well, he's built in to resign at a less than supermax but still impressive $32 million.


Why is everyone assuming that we must pay top dollar for Kawhi when the facts are that there is zero market for him?

Conversely, why is there an assumption that anyone can trade Butler for peanuts when he has clearly not tanked his value and is not coming off of a questionable injury?

There's no logic in this thread!
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