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ribeye
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:41 pm    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
during the game, Tony Romo brought up a point, seemed like the Pats knew which play Rams were about to run. whenever Goff dropped back for a deep pass, Pats defenders were all in the right place. spygate anyone?


I wondered about this myself.


As did I . . . for some odd reason.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:02 pm    Post subject:

Basketball Fan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The stage was to big the lights to bright. Rams new kids on the block. Pats been there done that.



Yet the Eagles won last year with a backup QB

And the Giants did it twice with Eli Manning and one of those years the Pats were on the verge of a perfect season.

So sometimes it depends on the day.

It wasn't the Rams.


You know what Nick Foles and Eli Manning have in common? They don't care enough to get rattled.

It's the ones that think too much about this being THE Superbowl. Those are the ones that get rattled.

They psych themselves out thinking this is the Superbowl. They have to play the best game of their lives. They have to make perfect reads. They have to not make dumb mistakes.

Too much thinking then they get into the game and the ball's not coming out their hands like it should.

You get a guy like Nick Foles/Eli Manning - they don't care about legacy. They don't think everything is on them. They're just trying to play and win. That's it. And so they're able to play their best when it counts.

I think this is exactly what happens to Kershaw in the playoffs. Puts too much pressure on himself and psyches himself out.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:53 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
during the game, Tony Romo brought up a point, seemed like the Pats knew which play Rams were about to run. whenever Goff dropped back for a deep pass, Pats defenders were all in the right place. spygate anyone?


I wondered about this myself.


As did I . . . for some odd reason.

How about Belichick knowing the oppositions tendencies? Ever listen to Tony predicting what the offense was about to do and them doing it? I extend kudos to Bill for doing his homework. I don't think he cheated, he read McVay.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:05 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Basketball Fan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The stage was to big the lights to bright. Rams new kids on the block. Pats been there done that.



Yet the Eagles won last year with a backup QB

And the Giants did it twice with Eli Manning and one of those years the Pats were on the verge of a perfect season.

So sometimes it depends on the day.

It wasn't the Rams.


You know what Nick Foles and Eli Manning have in common? They don't care enough to get rattled.

It's the ones that think too much about this being THE Superbowl. Those are the ones that get rattled.

They psych themselves out thinking this is the Superbowl. They have to play the best game of their lives. They have to make perfect reads. They have to not make dumb mistakes.

Too much thinking then they get into the game and the ball's not coming out their hands like it should.

You get a guy like Nick Foles/Eli Manning - they don't care about legacy. They don't think everything is on them. They're just trying to play and win. That's it. And so they're able to play their best when it counts.

I think this is exactly what happens to Kershaw in the playoffs. Puts too much pressure on himself and psyches himself out.


One thing about Kershaw and others in a similar spot is they get to hear the media/fans go on about their legacy and they hear the constant criticism and it can get into their heads and be a disadvantage. Montana and Brady won so quickly they never got to hear the doubters say “Will he ever win” or “He choked again.” That type of talk can also affect teammates and coaches. And probably even opponents.

For a guy like Foles, nobody gives a (bleep) about his legacy so it’s not even an issue in his mind.
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Buck32
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:15 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
during the game, Tony Romo brought up a point, seemed like the Pats knew which play Rams were about to run. whenever Goff dropped back for a deep pass, Pats defenders were all in the right place. spygate anyone?


I wondered about this myself.


As did I . . . for some odd reason.

How about Belichick knowing the oppositions tendencies? Ever listen to Tony predicting what the offense was about to do and them doing it? I extend kudos to Bill for doing his homework. I don't think he cheated, he read McVay.


"Bill Belichick told me he did not cheat, and I believe him."
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:20 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Basketball Fan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The stage was to big the lights to bright. Rams new kids on the block. Pats been there done that.



Yet the Eagles won last year with a backup QB

And the Giants did it twice with Eli Manning and one of those years the Pats were on the verge of a perfect season.

So sometimes it depends on the day.

It wasn't the Rams.


You know what Nick Foles and Eli Manning have in common? They don't care enough to get rattled.

It's the ones that think too much about this being THE Superbowl. Those are the ones that get rattled.

They psych themselves out thinking this is the Superbowl. They have to play the best game of their lives. They have to make perfect reads. They have to not make dumb mistakes.

Too much thinking then they get into the game and the ball's not coming out their hands like it should.

You get a guy like Nick Foles/Eli Manning - they don't care about legacy. They don't think everything is on them. They're just trying to play and win. That's it. And so they're able to play their best when it counts.

I think this is exactly what happens to Kershaw in the playoffs. Puts too much pressure on himself and psyches himself out.


One thing about Kershaw and others in a similar spot is they get to hear the media/fans go on about their legacy and they hear the constant criticism and it can get into their heads and be a disadvantage. Montana and Brady won so quickly they never got to hear the doubters say “Will he ever win” or “He choked again.” That type of talk can also affect teammates and coaches. And probably even opponents.

For a guy like Foles, nobody gives a (bleep) about his legacy so it’s not even an issue in his mind.


Yeah. And it seems like the quarterbacks that weren't high first round picks - those are the ones that don't get rattled. They come into the league with a chip on their shoulder and they play that way.

Brees, Montana, Brady, Rogers, Russell Wilson, Kurt Warner. None were high first round picks.

I think the really high 1st rd draft picks are more prone to feeling the pressure because they've had expectations put on them their whole life. It's a huge burden.

And this is a HUGE generalization. I know there's many exceptions to this. It's just a theory I'm throwing out there.

What I'm saying is, if you're trying to meet other people's high expectations placed upon you, you'll feel the pressure and you might cave.

Conversely, if you're used to people having low expectations of you, you have a chip on your shoulder and you have to put high expectations on yourself. This is more conducive to performing on the big stage.

I think Goff as the no. 1 pick - he's had these huge expectations placed upon him. I think he was thinking that winning the Superbowl will finally validate him. He was probably thinking that sometimes you only get one crack at the SB your entire career (like Dan Marino) so you have to win when you get the chance. Probably all these things were in his mind and he cracked.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:01 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Basketball Fan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The stage was to big the lights to bright. Rams new kids on the block. Pats been there done that.



Yet the Eagles won last year with a backup QB

And the Giants did it twice with Eli Manning and one of those years the Pats were on the verge of a perfect season.

So sometimes it depends on the day.

It wasn't the Rams.


You know what Nick Foles and Eli Manning have in common? They don't care enough to get rattled.

It's the ones that think too much about this being THE Superbowl. Those are the ones that get rattled.

They psych themselves out thinking this is the Superbowl. They have to play the best game of their lives. They have to make perfect reads. They have to not make dumb mistakes.

Too much thinking then they get into the game and the ball's not coming out their hands like it should.

You get a guy like Nick Foles/Eli Manning - they don't care about legacy. They don't think everything is on them. They're just trying to play and win. That's it. And so they're able to play their best when it counts.

I think this is exactly what happens to Kershaw in the playoffs. Puts too much pressure on himself and psyches himself out.


One thing about Kershaw and others in a similar spot is they get to hear the media/fans go on about their legacy and they hear the constant criticism and it can get into their heads and be a disadvantage. Montana and Brady won so quickly they never got to hear the doubters say “Will he ever win” or “He choked again.” That type of talk can also affect teammates and coaches. And probably even opponents.

For a guy like Foles, nobody gives a (bleep) about his legacy so it’s not even an issue in his mind.


Yeah. And it seems like the quarterbacks that weren't high first round picks - those are the ones that don't get rattled. They come into the league with a chip on their shoulder and they play that way.

Brees, Montana, Brady, Rogers, Russell Wilson, Kurt Warner. None were high first round picks.

I think the really high 1st rd draft picks are more prone to feeling the pressure because they've had expectations put on them their whole life. It's a huge burden.

And this is a HUGE generalization. I know there's many exceptions to this. It's just a theory I'm throwing out there.

What I'm saying is, if you're trying to meet other people's high expectations placed upon you, you'll feel the pressure and you might cave.

Conversely, if you're used to people having low expectations of you, you have a chip on your shoulder and you have to put high expectations on yourself. This is more conducive to performing on the big stage.

I think Goff as the no. 1 pick - he's had these huge expectations placed upon him. I think he was thinking that winning the Superbowl will finally validate him. He was probably thinking that sometimes you only get one crack at the SB your entire career (like Dan Marino) so you have to win when you get the chance. Probably all these things were in his mind and he cracked.


I had never thought of it quite that way. Interesting juxtaposition and a theory to be considered.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:11 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Montana was the comeback king of his time. He struggled to score against the Bengals in the 1989 Super Bowl-until the 4th quarter. 3 points at halftime, 3 more in the 3rd quarter, and 14 points in the 4th to win the game.


That was not the only time Montana lost to the Giants though in the playoffs. The Giants beat Montana a total of 3 times in the playoffs including one game where they dominated the 49ers 49 - 3.

Looks like Brady isn't the only one to have trouble with with the Giants. Montana himself got knocked out by the Giants before he could even sniff the Superbowl on three occasions.

Quote:
Completely irrelevant. You were ripping on Montana for losing to the Giants in a game that he got injured in and didn’t finish as a result. So I brought up his comeback ability. Not sure what throwing Brady in the mix has to do with it.


I just showed you it wasn't one playoff game but three playoff games including one where Montana was knocked out. Brady only lost to them twice but in the Superbowl due to the Giants being in the NFC. Montana got owned by Belichick and the Giants didn't even have a decent quarterback like Eli for the games they won.

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No I was talking about the NFL’s fear of concussions and big hits. Qbs and receivers don’t get beat up the way they used to and they don’t have as much to worry about. It’s probably why Brady thinks he can play until he is 45.


And I was talking about when those rules changed and why. The concussion controversy was important but they also wanted to protect their big star Peyton Manning who's popularity lead them to change the rules to protect the quarterback.

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I always thought Jordan was better.


Me too well you must be in the minority of Laker fans who would admit Jordan is better.
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:27 am    Post subject:

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Wait, what? Montana was defeated in the NFC championship a few times by the New York Giants and guess who was the defensive coordinator then for the Giants? That's right Bill Belichick.


I totally forgot that Montana and the 49ers had the lead and the football in the 4th quarter when Montana was knocked out. So the 49ers looked well on their way to victory. They had to injure Montana because they couldn’t beat him. It’s too bad because the 49ers could have faced the Bills and Montana could be 5-0 in Super Bowls.

The Giants also knocked him out in the 86 playoff game and he left with a concussion.

It was a different era for quarterbacks and no wonder they didn’t last as long as they do today.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:43 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
during the game, Tony Romo brought up a point, seemed like the Pats knew which play Rams were about to run. whenever Goff dropped back for a deep pass, Pats defenders were all in the right place. spygate anyone?


I wondered about this myself.


As did I . . . for some odd reason.

How about Belichick knowing the oppositions tendencies? Ever listen to Tony predicting what the offense was about to do and them doing it? I extend kudos to Bill for doing his homework. I don't think he cheated, he read McVay.

That is the most reasonable read. Still, if you live in a house with a known thief, and your wedding ring goes missing, what would likely be your first thought?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:43 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
Quote:
Wait, what? Montana was defeated in the NFC championship a few times by the New York Giants and guess who was the defensive coordinator then for the Giants? That's right Bill Belichick.


I totally forgot that Montana and the 49ers had the lead and the football in the 4th quarter when Montana was knocked out. So the 49ers looked well on their way to victory. They had to injure Montana because they couldn’t beat him. It’s too bad because the 49ers could have faced the Bills and Montana could be 5-0 in Super Bowls.

The Giants also knocked him out in the 86 playoff game and he left with a concussion.

It was a different era for quarterbacks and no wonder they didn’t last as long as they do today.


Back to the main point which is that you claim Montana is better than Brady because he never lost in the big game the Superbowl.

Well Montana lost to the same NY Giants that Brady lost to except being the NFC caused Montana to lose to the Giants even sooner so that he could not even make it to the Superbowl. Montana and Brady both lost to the New York Giants bottom line.

You try to give Montana excuses like he got knocked out of the game or concussed. Well if he was so good, he wouldn't have even been put in that position nor would his team allow him to get hit that hard.

Now your next point is Montana would last longer in today's game because he would be protected and his career would last longer? I'm sure that would be true but we are talking hypothetical situations here. What if Len Bias and Reggie Lewis didn't pass away? The Celtics may have not been a terrible team in the 90s. Oh well but that didn't happen.

We only have reality which is currently Brady has 6 championships to Montana's 4 championships cementing him as the best of all time.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:01 am    Post subject:

^^ For what it is worth, Montana has the best quarterback rating in Super Bowl history at 127.8. Brady is 95.6, outside of the top 10. This is not the factor, but a factor--just like rings.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject:

All these people putting the blame on Goff realize the coach shares some of the blame as well....even though Eli and Foles were newbies to the big stage, they had coaches who were much more experienced...Mcvay learned a hard lesson in the Super Bowl and I'm sure he will do much better if he ever does come back in the big game.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
All these people putting the blame on Goff realize the coach shares some of the blame as well....even though Eli and Foles were newbies to the big stage, they had coaches who were much more experienced...Mcvay learned a hard lesson in the Super Bowl and I'm sure he will do much better if he ever does come back in the big game.
DP was more experienced than Belichick?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:20 pm    Post subject:

tony wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
All these people putting the blame on Goff realize the coach shares some of the blame as well....even though Eli and Foles were newbies to the big stage, they had coaches who were much more experienced...Mcvay learned a hard lesson in the Super Bowl and I'm sure he will do much better if he ever does come back in the big game.
DP was more experienced than Belichick?


You are reading into a comparison I did not make. Doug Pederson had much more NFL coaching experience than Sean McVay. Don't forget he was a player as well....his depth of knowledge was much deeper than Sean McVay and you could tell by the way he coached in the Super Bowl compared to Sean, who looked out of his element. That being said, I'm sure McVay will use those hard lessons to win a Super Bowl in the future if he gets back to it.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:14 pm    Post subject:

BirdMagicLegend wrote:

Back to the main point which is that you claim Montana is better than Brady because he never lost in the big game the Superbowl.
.


That is not the main point. I never said that and think it’s a stupid argument to make.

Quote:
Well Montana lost to the same NY Giants that Brady lost to

Montana and Brady both lost to the New York Giants bottom line.


I didn’t realize that Belichick was coaching the Giants defense when Brady was playing in the Super Bowl. Amazing. I guess Belichick can do it all. Did he get rings when Eli beat the Patriots?

Quote:
You try to give Montana excuses like he got knocked out of the game or concussed. Well if he was so good, he wouldn't have even been put in that position nor would his team allow him to get hit that hard.


How old are you? 10?

Quote:
We only have reality which is currently Brady has 6 championships to Montana's 4 championships cementing him as the best of all time


Rings are a team stat, but I agree that Brady and the Patriots are the GOAT cheaters.

Edelman is Super Bowl MVP, but don’t forget cheating
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:00 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
All these people putting the blame on Goff realize the coach shares some of the blame as well....even though Eli and Foles were newbies to the big stage, they had coaches who were much more experienced...Mcvay learned a hard lesson in the Super Bowl and I'm sure he will do much better if he ever does come back in the big game.


Yeah, the coach gets his blame, and Goff gets his blame. The coach calls plays that don't work - but Goff also made throws that weren't on target, and took sacks that he shouldn't have.

Goff played 3 playoff games this year. Here are his numbers:

59 for 106 (55.7%)
712 yds (237 avg)
1 TD
2 INT
71.7 RTG
43.8 QBR


He played in 1 playoff game last year:

24 for 45 (53.3 %)
259 yds
1 TD
0 INT
77.9RTG
39.6 QBR
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:01 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:

As for the other play, the dude hit him as he was attempting to make the catch. That is not a drop either, not in the sense of a charted drop, anyway. It would've been a great catch, sure, but it's not like he was wide open and just dropped the ball.


Cooks would tell you himself (I am guessing) that he should have caught the 2nd one.

Then the whole narrative on Goff is different. He would have answered the Pats TD with a TD of his own in the clutch against the big bad Patriots.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
jodeke wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
during the game, Tony Romo brought up a point, seemed like the Pats knew which play Rams were about to run. whenever Goff dropped back for a deep pass, Pats defenders were all in the right place. spygate anyone?


I wondered about this myself.


As did I . . . for some odd reason.

How about Belichick knowing the oppositions tendencies? Ever listen to Tony predicting what the offense was about to do and them doing it? I extend kudos to Bill for doing his homework. I don't think he cheated, he read McVay.

That is the most reasonable read. Still, if you live in a house with a known thief, and your wedding ring goes missing, what would likely be your first thought?

Frisk the thief.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:54 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
during the game, Tony Romo brought up a point, seemed like the Pats knew which play Rams were about to run. whenever Goff dropped back for a deep pass, Pats defenders were all in the right place. spygate anyone?


I wondered about this myself.


As did I . . . for some odd reason.

How about Belichick knowing the oppositions tendencies? Ever listen to Tony predicting what the offense was about to do and them doing it? I extend kudos to Bill for doing his homework. I don't think he cheated, he read McVay.


Pretty much. Apparently aside from Bill/his staff looking at the formations of the other team, Bill will actually watch the opponent sideline to try to get a read on the coach/players. This is part of what led to the win in the Seattle superbowl. Bill looks over, sees the Seahawks are all excited and disorganized so he realizes they were assuming he'd call a TO to get his defense ready. He doesn't. Seattle realizes this and has to rush to get their guys to start the next play. Then Malcolm Butler does his thing.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:04 am    Post subject:

loslakersss wrote:
jodeke wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
during the game, Tony Romo brought up a point, seemed like the Pats knew which play Rams were about to run. whenever Goff dropped back for a deep pass, Pats defenders were all in the right place. spygate anyone?


I wondered about this myself.


As did I . . . for some odd reason.

How about Belichick knowing the oppositions tendencies? Ever listen to Tony predicting what the offense was about to do and them doing it? I extend kudos to Bill for doing his homework. I don't think he cheated, he read McVay.


Pretty much. Apparently aside from Bill/his staff looking at the formations of the other team, Bill will actually watch the opponent sideline to try to get a read on the coach/players. This is part of what led to the win in the Seattle superbowl. Bill looks over, sees the Seahawks are all excited and disorganized so he realizes they were assuming he'd call a TO to get his defense ready. He doesn't. Seattle realizes this and has to rush to get their guys to start the next play. Then Malcolm Butler does his thing.


And, of course, Butler only did his thing because the coaching staff keyed the players into how the Seahawks may attempt to pass in a short-yardage situation like that and told the team exactly what formation to look for and the perfect way to play it. Seahawks get into that formation, Browner and Butler read it perfectly . . . and the rest is history.
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loslakersss
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:20 am    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
loslakersss wrote:
jodeke wrote:
ribeye wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
during the game, Tony Romo brought up a point, seemed like the Pats knew which play Rams were about to run. whenever Goff dropped back for a deep pass, Pats defenders were all in the right place. spygate anyone?


I wondered about this myself.


As did I . . . for some odd reason.

How about Belichick knowing the oppositions tendencies? Ever listen to Tony predicting what the offense was about to do and them doing it? I extend kudos to Bill for doing his homework. I don't think he cheated, he read McVay.


Pretty much. Apparently aside from Bill/his staff looking at the formations of the other team, Bill will actually watch the opponent sideline to try to get a read on the coach/players. This is part of what led to the win in the Seattle superbowl. Bill looks over, sees the Seahawks are all excited and disorganized so he realizes they were assuming he'd call a TO to get his defense ready. He doesn't. Seattle realizes this and has to rush to get their guys to start the next play. Then Malcolm Butler does his thing.


And, of course, Butler only did his thing because the coaching staff keyed the players into how the Seahawks may attempt to pass in a short-yardage situation like that and told the team exactly what formation to look for and the perfect way to play it. Seahawks get into that formation, Browner and Butler read it perfectly . . . and the rest is history.


Honestly, it's getting to the point where great coaching is far more interesting than the game on the field.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:57 pm    Post subject:

good read on how Pats shut down the Rams offense


https://footballfilmroom.com/2019/02/06/how-the-patriots-shut-down-the-rams-offense-in-super-bowl-liii/

McVay, Goff, and the offensive line need to learn from this
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:05 am    Post subject:

misterchipmunk wrote:
good read on how Pats shut down the Rams offense


https://footballfilmroom.com/2019/02/06/how-the-patriots-shut-down-the-rams-offense-in-super-bowl-liii/

McVay, Goff, and the offensive line need to learn from this


Yeah, that’s a good read. My question is, does this only happen to Goff and McVay?

The Patriots have been to 3 straight SBs. 2 years ago, they couldn't stop the Falcons. Last year, Foles ate them up.

This year, they disguised their coverages so well that it flummoxed Goff and McVay?

That’s hard to buy. Goff’s been in the league 3 years now. No one’s ever tried to disguise their coverage?

If what this article’s saying is true, then Goff is going to face alot of disguised coverages next year.

2 years ago, the Falcons’ offense was all about play action and putting the man in motion to get pre-snap reads.

Belichick had no answer for this. He couldn’t disguise his coverage enough to confuse Matt Ryan. But he wasable to do so vs. Goff. If it’s true, that shows how bad Goff is at reading defenses and being able to adjust.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:46 pm    Post subject:

misterchipmunk wrote:
good read on how Pats shut down the Rams offense


https://footballfilmroom.com/2019/02/06/how-the-patriots-shut-down-the-rams-offense-in-super-bowl-liii/

McVay, Goff, and the offensive line need to learn from this


Reminds me of how the Rams prepared for the Cowboys....they read their tendencies. Looks like the Patriots did their homework better for the big game than the Rams.
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