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Tony Montana Star Player
Joined: 18 Apr 2005 Posts: 2962
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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This thread is really making me sick. I was already queasy for the last 24 hours since the Atlanta debacle, but this is giving me a migrane. We deserve better. Kobe deserves better. I'd love to watch teams try to figure out how to defend Kobe with Baron attacking. Arrrrrgh! |
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turbulent Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 1481 Location: Downey,cali
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Tony Montana wrote: | This thread is really making me sick. I was already queasy for the last 24 hours since the Atlanta debacle, but this is giving me a migrane. We deserve better. Kobe deserves better. I'd love to watch teams try to figure out how to defend Kobe with Baron attacking. Arrrrrgh! |
my feelings exactly. This crap is depressing..Let me go about my life!!!!!! |
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tgf5 Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Posts: 11581 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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da ocho wrote: | considering his injury prone history and awful attitude. you should all be glad we didn't get him. he's gonna get his coach fired. |
If he came to LA, trust me, Phil Jackson is not going to get fired. And he wanted to come to LA didn't he? Oh and we did really well keeping Divac too. Oh yeah, GS was also 16-39 before the Baron came and ended the season with 34-48, making a 18-9 record with his arrival. |
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lakers0505 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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Dont care for or want barond Davis, am gald he's not in P&G. Ive explained numerous times y that is, and honestly dont care to reason with anyone who will argue too the end how "great " a 39%,8 - 3's a game, volume scoring, overpaid, injury prone PG, is. I basically answered y i dont want him in that little rant above. |
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Laker Lurker Star Player
Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 7652
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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lakers0505 wrote: | Dont care for or want barond Davis, am gald he's not in P&G. Ive explained numerous times y that is, and honestly dont care to reason with anyone who will argue too the end how "great " a 39%,8 - 3's a game, volume scoring, overpaid, injury prone PG, is. I basically answered y i dont want him in that little rant above. |
I take it you would rather have Smush Parker? Well, you have him(reality)-probably for a long time. Enjoy Kobe carrying the Lakers by having to score 35-40 points per game-as long as he can-as long as he lasts. |
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Laker Lurker Star Player
Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 7652
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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CBaller8 wrote: | Not taking Baron was (bleep) stunted. We'd be at least 10 games over .500 now if we hadhim. |
Baron Davis is LA bred living in New Orleans and on a loser team- a double whammy. He was just depressed - not stunted |
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eldrunko714 Starting Rotation
Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 223
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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Laker Lurker wrote: | CBaller8 wrote: | Not taking Baron was (bleep) stunted. We'd be at least 10 games over .500 now if we hadhim. |
Baron Davis is LA bred living in New Orleans and on a loser team- a double whammy. He was just depressed - not stunted |
What part of Baron Davis has a huge uninsured contract do you guys not understand? Players with huge contracts once they are passed around a few times have lost all trade value due to underachieving, the unknown is known, and plus the cap killer contract. Good players with no heart are just that. Just look at Lamar Odom. This is a common complaint with BD from the GS fans. Sure we would have been a more exciting team and plus a few games but BD doesn't make us Championship contenders. I'll take Kirk Hinrich any day of the week over B Diddy. |
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Laker Lurker Star Player
Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 7652
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:44 am Post subject: |
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eldrunko714 wrote: | Laker Lurker wrote: | CBaller8 wrote: | Not taking Baron was (bleep) stunted. We'd be at least 10 games over .500 now if we hadhim. |
Baron Davis is LA bred living in New Orleans and on a loser team- a double whammy. He was just depressed - not stunted |
What part of Baron Davis has a huge uninsured contract do you guys not understand? Players with huge contracts once they are passed around a few times have lost all trade value due to underachieving, the unknown is known, and plus the cap killer contract. Good players with no heart are just that. Just look at Lamar Odom. This is a common complaint with BD from the GS fans. Sure we would have been a more exciting team and plus a few games but BD doesn't make us Championship contenders. I'll take Kirk Hinrich any day of the week over B Diddy. |
1. Who says that Baron Davis has no heart, He carried a crap Hornets team on his back to the Playoffs. He was the #1 option.
2. When has Baron Davis underachieved[b]He is second in assists to Steve Nash-last years MVP[/b]. He scores a lot more than Odom even playing next to Jason Richardson who is the 1st option, and he is averaging more than twice the steals Odom has.
Davis has more steals than Kobe, Lebron, or Camelo Anthony. The only players who have steals more than Davis are Brevin Knight, Chris Paul. Shawn Marion, Alan Iverson, Dwyane Wade, Jason Kidd, and Gilbert Arenas- I guess you would turn down these scrubs too for underachievement.
2. Who says he's not clutch. His last .3 second shot at the end of the game made the NBA change the rules.
3.[u][i]As for Davis being uininsurble[/i][/u], The lakers are a basketball team- not an insurance company.
As far as risks go, didnt Buss take the risk that Grant would play for 14 million dollars a year instead of sitting out for 14 million a year for 2 years? What is the difference here ?-not playing at all versus being uninsurable and playing. I'll take the latter.Oh- by the way, add a few million more for Grant if Buss wasn't saved by the CBA in paying for the luixury tax.
What about the millions Odom is getting for non-perfomance. What is the difference between non performance while playing and not performing because the player is hurt. Non-performance is not performing no matter how you cut it. Add Walton. Sasha, and Kwame to the list of Odom and Gramt. The risk of Davis being injured permanently is nothing compared to the risk the Lakers have already taken and lost in the form of Grant, Odom, Kwame, Walton, and Sasha.
So, Whats the big deal? |
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lakers0505 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:55 am Post subject: |
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Yea i sure want baron davis runing my championship offense, and steals are overated, they dont mean jack, thats y its not concerned that big of a deal to lead athe league in steals. I guess u guys are right then, i dont really want to argue, we all have opinions. |
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tgf5 Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Posts: 11581 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:57 am Post subject: |
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eldrunko714 wrote: | Laker Lurker wrote: | CBaller8 wrote: | Not taking Baron was (bleep) stunted. We'd be at least 10 games over .500 now if we hadhim. |
Baron Davis is LA bred living in New Orleans and on a loser team- a double whammy. He was just depressed - not stunted |
What part of Baron Davis has a huge uninsured contract do you guys not understand? Players with huge contracts once they are passed around a few times have lost all trade value due to underachieving, the unknown is known, and plus the cap killer contract. Good players with no heart are just that. Just look at Lamar Odom. This is a common complaint with BD from the GS fans. Sure we would have been a more exciting team and plus a few games but BD doesn't make us Championship contenders. I'll take Kirk Hinrich any day of the week over B Diddy. |
Since when did the NBA involve insurance? We already signed Vlade and Mckie and we know how that turned out. Baron is actually playing so I don't know where you're going with that.
Players with huge contracts moving around? Baron Davis has been on 2 teams his whole career!! BD passed around?? What did BD ever do to lose heart?
GS fans are complaining. Do we look like GS fans? We would be a much more exciting team and be a 50 win team easily giving up only Butler, George and Vlade. BD is one of the toughest matchups in the NBA at the point, and can throw it down with authority so he isn't afraid of taking it to the hoop.
lakers0505 wrote: | Yea i sure want baron davis runing my championship offense, and steals are overated, they dont mean jack, thats y its not concerned that big of a deal to lead athe league in steals. I guess u guys are right then, i dont really want to argue, we all have opinions. |
OK I don't get why people would rather have Smush when you could have a guy 19, 5, 9, 2 night in night out. |
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lakers0505 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 10701
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:06 am Post subject: |
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He is not a good decision maker, or a top shooter, which the tri needs. He is streaky, dont get that confused with a dead eye shooter, 39% on the year and he doesnt make good decisions, and he is NOT steve nash, one pg, is pass first and other likes too shoot more or less, one pg has his team with the 3 rd best record in the west , the other has his team about 5 games under .500. Im not saying we want smush, but patience is the key, wait it out and something will happen. |
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tgf5 Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Posts: 11581 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:19 am Post subject: |
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lakers0505 wrote: | He is not a good decision maker, or a top shooter, which the tri needs. He is streaky, dont get that confused with a dead eye shooter, 39% on the year and he doesnt make good decisions, and he is NOT steve nash, one pg, is pass first and other likes too shoot more or less, one pg has his team with the 3 rd best record in the west , the other has his team about 5 games under .500. Im not saying we want smush, but patience is the key, wait it out and something will happen. |
Good. We want a second option who isn't afraid to shoot. Smush wasn't exactly a good shooter either in other teams. When he plays with Kobe he gets open shots. He isn't Steve Nash, no one said he is. But he still gets 9apg, that's good for second best in the league. And he's not a good decision maker? A/Turnover ratio is good for 12th best in the league. Guess what? Nash is 13th. |
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Laker Lurker Star Player
Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 7652
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:55 am Post subject: |
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lakers0505 wrote: | He is not a good decision maker, or a top shooter, which the tri needs. He is streaky, dont get that confused with a dead eye shooter, 39% on the year and he doesnt make good decisions, and he is NOT steve nash, one pg, is pass first and other likes too shoot more or less, one pg has his team with the 3 rd best record in the west , the other has his team about 5 games under .500. Im not saying we want smush, but patience is the key, wait it out and something will happen. |
Name Team ______Min Pct Ast Stl Blk PPG
Steve Nash PHO__36.8 49.5 11.0 0.9 0.1 19.4
Baron Davis GS ---- 37.5 39.1 9.2 1.8 0.3 18.7
Davis is not Steve Nash but he is the next best thing as far as assists are concerned. He is also as good a scorer and a better defensive player. His FG% is 40% vs 5o% but this is why steve Nash is MVP + his team has a better record. The only big difference between the two is Nash's shooting % probably because he doesn't play defense. Nash also has a better team, a better system, and a better coach |
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Sidious Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Apr 2005 Posts: 586 Location: Hunting Beach, CA
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Why would you want Baron Davis? The guy shoots UNDER 40% from the field. And he's getting paid too paid. |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 54021
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:56 am Post subject: |
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tgf5 wrote: | da ocho wrote: | considering his injury prone history and awful attitude. you should all be glad we didn't get him. he's gonna get his coach fired. |
If he came to LA, trust me, Phil Jackson is not going to get fired. And he wanted to come to LA didn't he? Oh and we did really well keeping Divac too. Oh yeah, GS was also 16-39 before the Baron came and ended the season with 34-48, making a 18-9 record with his arrival. |
whether or not he would have been able to get rid of phil jackson is inconsequential. the fact that he's the type of guy who tries to get rid of his coach is the problem. when you say "F off' to your coach...as baron did recently in practice" you do not have respect for authority.
baron is a me first player that will give you limited success in the short term and complete meltdown in the long run. i am very glad we did not sign him. _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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tgf5 Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2005 Posts: 11581 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:19 am Post subject: |
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da ocho wrote: | tgf5 wrote: | da ocho wrote: | considering his injury prone history and awful attitude. you should all be glad we didn't get him. he's gonna get his coach fired. |
If he came to LA, trust me, Phil Jackson is not going to get fired. And he wanted to come to LA didn't he? Oh and we did really well keeping Divac too. Oh yeah, GS was also 16-39 before the Baron came and ended the season with 34-48, making a 18-9 record with his arrival. |
whether or not he would have been able to get rid of phil jackson is inconsequential. the fact that he's the type of guy who tries to get rid of his coach is the problem. when you say "F off' to your coach...as baron did recently in practice" you do not have respect for authority.
baron is a me first player that will give you limited success in the short term and complete meltdown in the long run. i am very glad we did not sign him. |
Yah, and you we're one of the guys who also wanted Artest :roll: |
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Dr. Laker Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 17163
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: |
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BARON DAVIS
Is the best defensive PG in the league and a heck of a distributor. He might only shoot 40%, but Kobe would shoot 55% from all of the fast break baskets (of which he gets very few in the triangle) and wide open looks.
The reasons the Lakers avoided him (IMO):
1) Non-insurable contract, BUT it's been widely speculated that he was "jaking" it in NO (a la Vinsanity) in order to force a trade.
2) If he WAS "jaking" it, do you take guy who did that, knowing that if he gets pissed he may do it again to YOUR team?
Me? I'd have done it in a heartbeat, if only for the defensive aspects. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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ocho Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 54021
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:13 am Post subject: |
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tgf5 wrote: | da ocho wrote: | tgf5 wrote: | da ocho wrote: | considering his injury prone history and awful attitude. you should all be glad we didn't get him. he's gonna get his coach fired. |
If he came to LA, trust me, Phil Jackson is not going to get fired. And he wanted to come to LA didn't he? Oh and we did really well keeping Divac too. Oh yeah, GS was also 16-39 before the Baron came and ended the season with 34-48, making a 18-9 record with his arrival. |
whether or not he would have been able to get rid of phil jackson is inconsequential. the fact that he's the type of guy who tries to get rid of his coach is the problem. when you say "F off' to your coach...as baron did recently in practice" you do not have respect for authority.
baron is a me first player that will give you limited success in the short term and complete meltdown in the long run. i am very glad we did not sign him. |
Yah, and you we're one of the guys who also wanted Artest :roll: |
there is a BIG difference in talent level between baron davis and ron artest. one has enough talent to take the risk and one doesn't. _________________ 14-5-3-12 |
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THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:42 am Post subject: |
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KobeButler wrote: | Im glad we didnt get Baron Davis. Hes nothing but a chucker. Hes shooting under 40%. Warrior fans actually want to get rid of him. |
Are you guys serious? Somebody hook me up with a Warriors forum where they beess a chattin. I thought they would be stoked having "B Diddy"
Truth be told, that roster should be ahead of us and, right around 2nd place. Talk about underachieving. If the current trend continues Van Gundy and Mike Montgomery need to be concerned. Both team are underachieving. _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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A Mad Chinaman Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 6190
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Laker Lurker wrote: |
Name Team ______Min Pct Ast Stl Blk PPG
Steve Nash PHO__36.8 49.5 11.0 0.9 0.1 19.4
Baron Davis GS ---- 37.5 39.1 9.2 1.8 0.3 18.7
Davis is not Steve Nash but he is the next best thing as far as assists are concerned. He is also as good a scorer and a better defensive player. His FG% is 40% vs 5o% but this is why steve Nash is MVP + his team has a better record. The only big difference between the two is Nash's shooting % probably because he doesn't play defense. Nash also has a better team, a better system, and a better coach |
B.D. is a very talented player.
However, I agree that G.S. should have a better record than the Lakers, based soley on the talent that they have on paper. If people were complaining on why hasn't Kobe/L.O. made the other players better, can you imagine what they are saying about B.D. in the Bay Area?!?! They will probably not even make the playoffs?!?!
In addition - B.D.'s "LARGE AND LONG" contract makes him an extremely risky decision to make (Note: LO was received to match the salary that Shaq had), plus he is a "shoot first/pass later" guard - along the lines of Francis/Marbury. His salary would make it extremely hard to add any more needed pieces because just with LO, B.D. and Kobe - the Lakers would probably be over "The Cap!" (Emplay or D.B. probably has the figures to confirm this) |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144588 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Laker Lurker wrote: |
So, Whats the big deal? |
The big deal is the word uninsured. That changes the whole ballgame for the owners. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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sleepin4matty Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 125
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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RG73 wrote: | We actually had two shots are Baron, that's the worst part.
Jerry West was going to deal Rice to get Baron in the draft. Phil nixed that as one of the first of a series of moves that would drive West off.
So we could have had Baron, Kobe and Shaq.
Then again 2 years before West was going to ship NVE for Kidd and got shot down by Del. Hmmm, Kidd, EJ, Kobe and Shaq?
And then yeah, we had a shot at Baron last year. I don't know who the hell shot that one down. Probably the same person that shot down Artest. I mean why on Earth would we want to have Baron, Kobe and Artest on the same team when we can have, umm, Smush and Lamar? |
This is all fact. The last deal for Baron was shot down because of the uninsured contract problem. Even though Vlade didn't play and McKie might not play their contracts are insured and the Lakers won't lose money on them if they cannot finish their contract. Baron on the other hand if he hurts his back again and can't play another game....well the lakers are SOL on his contract. That's why they didn't want him. It had nothing to do with the cancer things it was the health issues. |
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Socks Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 10761 Location: Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't want Baron on the Lakers, but I'd do that trade 10 times out of 10. Here's why:
Baron is an asset and a valuable asset that would've been acquired on the cheap. Chances to upgrade talent are rare, we need to take advantage when we have the chance. Just look at how weak the draft is and how weak the free agent market is. You've got to jump on these given the chance.
I'd have let Baron come back and play to get his value up (show everyone he's healthy again) and then look to trade him for someone who would be a better fit. His trade value was through the roof after playing with the Warriors. We need to do those kinds of things wherever we can. As long as you have talent you have assets to make a trade. It's always a gamble, but I think it's proven in this league that some other team will always want to take a chance, so you can always move a player. I mean, no matter what, you can always deal them to NY |
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THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Why that would be hard to understand is comical. Why would any owner take on an uninsured contract with a player that has a history of ending his seasons early year after year.
If Vince Carter were available and added that same condition, game over. Business is business and a boneheaded agreement like that would warrant calling the people involved idiots... _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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A Mad Chinaman Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 6190
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed
If he gets injuried, the Lakers are STUCK for many years - along with the Brian Grant contract?!?! btw: How minutes is Brian Grant playing on a team that need "bigs" that are mobile - nada (though he is helping Amare in his rehab @ $$$$$$$$$ per season?!?!) |
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