XFL will return in 2020!
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
NFL-E is long gone. There is a fair amount of interest in American football in Europe, but not enough to support expansion there. Generally speaking, it’s sort of a novelty for Europeans.


How do you think the XFL would do in Canada?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:25 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
How about taking the league to Canada? Have it compete against the CFL as did the AFL. In time maybe the competition would rival as the two leagues did here.


Probably has to do with the potential fanbase for pro football in Canada vs the US. The US is crazy for football....there are more fans for college football than there is for CFL in Canada. Just at the size of the CFL stadiums. The majority of the stadiums are the size of an MLS stadium.


Yes, the market would be smaller, not as lucrative as American football. The competition may produce a atmosphere that spooks new interests. I think it has a better chance in Canada than it does here.


This is why I think Europe would be a better market than Canada. Canada already has a well established league. Europe had the WFL which later became NFL Europe. They had a pretty good fanbase in the UK, Netherlands, Germany and Spain. Obviously the NFL thinks highly enough that they keep putting more and more games in the UK.


I'm not versed on UK football. Do they still have the NFLE and WL? If so the competition is greater there. If I have it right Canada's competition would be 1 on 1, new vs old.


World League was formed by the NFL....funny enough the concept was pretty similar to the USFL, have teams in smaller non-NFL markets playing during the spring. It was envisioned as a league that included teams in Europe as well, and that is what it eventually became, primarily a European based American style football league. The NFL folded the league in 2007 and determined it was easier and more profitable to just fly NFL teams to play in London.....which is why we currently have a number of the teams in the NFL do once a season.

If a league as notable as the NFL couldn't survive in Europe what makes you think a fledgling like the XFL would succeed?

Football is basically an American sport. Soccer is more world wide.
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Last edited by jodeke on Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:35 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
NFL-E is long gone. There is a fair amount of interest in American football in Europe, but not enough to support expansion there. Generally speaking, it’s sort of a novelty for Europeans.


How do you think the XFL would do in Canada?


No clue. The CFL does okay, but not great. Average attendance is about 25k.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
How about taking the league to Canada? Have it compete against the CFL as did the AFL. In time maybe the competition would rival as the two leagues did here.


Probably has to do with the potential fanbase for pro football in Canada vs the US. The US is crazy for football....there are more fans for college football than there is for CFL in Canada. Just at the size of the CFL stadiums. The majority of the stadiums are the size of an MLS stadium.


Yes, the market would be smaller, not as lucrative as American football. The competition may produce a atmosphere that spooks new interests. I think it has a better chance in Canada than it does here.


This is why I think Europe would be a better market than Canada. Canada already has a well established league. Europe had the WFL which later became NFL Europe. They had a pretty good fanbase in the UK, Netherlands, Germany and Spain. Obviously the NFL thinks highly enough that they keep putting more and more games in the UK.


I'm not versed on UK football. Do they still have the NFLE and WL? If so the competition is greater there. If I have it right Canada's competition would be 1 on 1, new vs old.


World League was formed by the NFL....funny enough the concept was pretty similar to the USFL, have teams in smaller non-NFL markets playing during the spring. It was envisioned as a league that included teams in Europe as well, and that is what it eventually became, primarily a European based American style football league. The NFL folded the league in 2007 and determined it was easier and more profitable to just fly NFL teams to play in London.....which is why we currently have a number of the teams in the NFL do once a season.

If a league as notable as the NFL couldn't survive in Europe what makes you think a fledgling like the XFL would succeed?

Football is basically an American sport. Soccer is more world wide.


Not sure why you keep repeating that considering the NFL still sends teams to Europe every year, while the NFL stopped the Buffalo Bills Canada Series years ago. They obviously see enough dollar signs in the UK to keep taking away a home game from a couple of NFL teams. The Jacksonville Jaguars make more money at their home games in London versus the home games in Jacksonville.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jags-revenue-london-key
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject:

Eliminated the tree. It's starting to take to much page space.

I wrote:

Quote:

If a league as notable as the NFL couldn't survive in Europe what makes you think a fledgling like the XFL would succeed?

Football is basically an American sport. Soccer is more world wide.

lakersken80 wrote:

Quote:
Not sure why you keep repeating that considering the NFL still sends teams to Europe every year, while the NFL stopped the Buffalo Bills Canada Series years ago. They obviously see enough dollar signs in the UK to keep taking away a home game from a couple of NFL teams. The Jacksonville Jaguars make more money at their home games in London versus the home games in Jacksonville.


If you're talking about my quote, you said the NFL folded in Europe. I don't understand the point your making.

Yes they send teams for profit and a attempt to gain footing but we're talking about starting and supporting a new league. My position is Canada is more viable.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:52 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Eliminated the tree. It's starting to take to much page space.

I wrote:

Quote:

If a league as notable as the NFL couldn't survive in Europe what makes you think a fledgling like the XFL would succeed?

Football is basically an American sport. Soccer is more world wide.

lakersken80 wrote:

Quote:
Not sure why you keep repeating that considering the NFL still sends teams to Europe every year, while the NFL stopped the Buffalo Bills Canada Series years ago. They obviously see enough dollar signs in the UK to keep taking away a home game from a couple of NFL teams. The Jacksonville Jaguars make more money at their home games in London versus the home games in Jacksonville.


If you're talking about my quote, you said the NFL folded in Europe. I don't understand the point your making.

Yes they send teams for profit and a attempt to gain footing but we're talking about starting and supporting a new league. My position is Canada is more viable.


No, it isn't.
The NFL closed down NFL Europe in 2007 and then started the NFL International Series the same year. Because of the foundation they laid down with the WFL (which was later renamed to NFL Europe) they knew American style football could be successful in Europe. Which is why they started sending NFL teams whose tickets are much more expensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_International_Series

Noticed it grew from just 1 NFL game back in 2007 to 4 to 5 games a year. Its basically helped the smaller market NFL teams grow their revenue.

Meanwhile, the NFL sent the Bills to Toronto, Canada and the attendance kept dropping each year,leading them to basically cancel the games there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series

Not really surprising considering Canada already has a well established football league while there aren't any major American style leagues across the pond.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject:

I'll believe it when I actually see it and not a minute sooner.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:10 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Eliminated the tree. It's starting to take to much page space.

I wrote:

Quote:

If a league as notable as the NFL couldn't survive in Europe what makes you think a fledgling like the XFL would succeed?

Football is basically an American sport. Soccer is more world wide.

lakersken80 wrote:

Quote:
Not sure why you keep repeating that considering the NFL still sends teams to Europe every year, while the NFL stopped the Buffalo Bills Canada Series years ago. They obviously see enough dollar signs in the UK to keep taking away a home game from a couple of NFL teams. The Jacksonville Jaguars make more money at their home games in London versus the home games in Jacksonville.


If you're talking about my quote, you said the NFL folded in Europe. I don't understand the point your making.

Yes they send teams for profit and a attempt to gain footing but we're talking about starting and supporting a new league. My position is Canada is more viable.


No, it isn't.
The NFL closed down NFL Europe in 2007 and then started the NFL International Series the same year. Because of the foundation they laid down with the WFL (which was later renamed to NFL Europe) they knew American style football could be successful in Europe. Which is why they started sending NFL teams whose tickets are much more expensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_International_Series

Noticed it grew from just 1 NFL game back in 2007 to 4 to 5 games a year. Its basically helped the smaller market NFL teams grow their revenue.

Meanwhile, the NFL sent the Bills to Toronto, Canada and the attendance kept dropping each year,leading them to basically cancel the games there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series

Not really surprising considering Canada already has a well established football league while there aren't any major American style leagues across the pond.

I don't think we're on the same page. I agree the NFL can make money in the UK. My point is I think Canada is a better starting point for a new league.

The NFL tried in the UK and folded. I'm not talking 3, 5 games, I'm speaking on a new league, a full season, for the XFL. Canada has a league to compete against similar to the old AFL, NFL.

Will it succeed in either location, don't know? I think Canada is a better starting point.

Again, football as a whole is an American sport. Soccer is more universal. It's making strides in America but the big four, Football, Baseball, Basketball and Hockey are front runners.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject:

The NFL only folded NFL Europe league for expense reasons. The league lasted for 17 years so they obviously it had a devoted audience. They could make more profit just by flying an established NFL team over to Europe and all they would need to do is pay for the plane tickets and hotel fees. While if they kept an entire league up and running they would have to rent training facilities and pay to rent stadiums all across Europe, put up players into permanent housing, not to mention keep a permanent separate staff in Europe.
Also the reason why Canada is not a great market is its small size....it only has a population of 35 million overall...meanwhile the UK has a population of 65 million, and when you consider the entire European market has a population of 741 million, you can see why the NFL sees potential.
Anyways I've gone way past the original topic as theres no indication the XFL will establish a foothold in Europe or Canada. It will probably just be a US based Spring league.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
The NFL only folded NFL Europe league for expense reasons. The league lasted for 17 years so they obviously it had a devoted audience. They could make more profit just by flying an established NFL team over to Europe and all they would need to do is pay for the plane tickets and hotel fees. While if they kept an entire league up and running they would have to rent training facilities and pay to rent stadiums all across Europe, put up players into permanent housing, not to mention keep a permanent separate staff in Europe.
Also the reason why Canada is not a great market is its small size....it only has a population of 35 million overall...meanwhile the UK has a population of 65 million, and when you consider the entire European market has a population of 741 million, you can see why the NFL sees potential.

Anyways I've gone way past the original topic as theres no indication the XFL will establish a foothold in Europe or Canada. It will probably just be a US based Spring league.


You're making my point. The NFL found Europe to expensive to support a NFL league. Yes, they make a profit playing 4, 5 games a year. I agree with you.

My point is the starting of a new league. Yes Canada has a smaller population and the profits wouldn't be off the charts. AH stated they only average about 35 thousand a game, OK.

Yes we did digress. There probably won't be a market for the XFL in either location. 2020, what a year, the XFL and Donald Trump.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:51 pm    Post subject:

Thats 35k for an established league which is over 60 years old. That isn't much of a market to fight for.
The XFL wouldn't get close to those numbers in Canada.
The NFL stopped supporting NFL Europe because they didn't want to run 2 separate leagues.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Thats 35k for an established league which is over 60 years old. That isn't much of a market to fight for.
The XFL wouldn't get close to those numbers in Canada.
And the NFL only stopped supporting NFL Europe because they didn't want to run 2 separate leagues.

National Football League founded 1920, American Football League founded 1959. Competition caused 2 leagues.

I agree with all your reasons why the NFL is no longer in Europe. That's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing the best place to start a new league. I say Canada.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Thats 35k for an established league which is over 60 years old. That isn't much of a market to fight for.
The XFL wouldn't get close to those numbers in Canada.
And the NFL only stopped supporting NFL Europe because they didn't want to run 2 separate leagues.

National Football League founded 1920, American Football League founded 1959. Competition caused 2 leagues.

I agree with all your reasons why the NFL is no longer in Europe. That's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing the best place to start a new league. I say Canada.


I was talking about the CFL, which was established in 1958.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:09 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
NFL-E is long gone. There is a fair amount of interest in American football in Europe, but not enough to support expansion there. Generally speaking, it’s sort of a novelty for Europeans.


How do you think the XFL would do in Canada?


No clue. The CFL does okay, but not great. Average attendance is about 25k.


That 35k number Jodeke quoted from AH was wrong. He only stated 25k average attendance for CFL games...if true that is even worse.....any upstart league in Canada would have no chance to succeed.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Thats 35k for an established league which is over 60 years old. That isn't much of a market to fight for.
The XFL wouldn't get close to those numbers in Canada.
And the NFL only stopped supporting NFL Europe because they didn't want to run 2 separate leagues.

National Football League founded 1920, American Football League founded 1959. Competition caused 2 leagues.

I agree with all your reasons why the NFL is no longer in Europe. That's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing the best place to start a new league. I say Canada.


I was talking about the CFL, which was established in 1958.

I know, I was comparing a league that started first to one that came along 39 years later and succeeded.

I agree the profits would be minimal. We agree on most points. My only position is belief in which place would be better for starting a new league. I say Canada.

I stand corrected on AH's quote. It was 25K. I also said profits would not be off the charts.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject:

Here are the CFL's attendance numbers, if anyone is curious:

https://stats.cfldb.ca/league/cfl/attendance/2017/

If you do the math using the percentage of capacity numbers, some of the CFL stadiums must be about the size of MLS stadiums.

Some of you may remember that the CFL once tried to expand to the US. It must have lasted about three or four years.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:29 am    Post subject:

I get that it will be difficult....if not nearly impossible for the XFL to have long term success....but I am all for opportunities for people to get paid to play their sport....so I personally wish it well.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject:

If the XFL wants to really stand apart, do something like the NBA, allow 1 and done players. Use the old Cardale Jones line "We didn't go to college to play school" Get the freshman that have some name recognition to football fans after a solid year in college and then say they are draft eligible. Players like Jalen Hurts or Tau (however you spell his last name) for Bama would have a chance to go play professionally. Fromm from Georgia, so many examples. Get the kids earlier than the NFL can get them, lock them into a 3-4 year contract and boom you are getting the talent the NFL would have gotten, and you can build the viability of the your new league. Start in cities like SD, Portland, St Louis, Omaha, OKC, San Antonio. Have games in stadiums that hold 30-35K fans, this will generate a solid and rabid fan base in areas that either no longer have NFL or never have. There's plenty of players, you can build a 20 team league with an additional 53 players and have some highly competitive games that could rival the NFL. At this point it's getting the funding to make it work and a solid pay scale.

The last big key, TV. NBC may have some interest, they don't have weekend games and could use some original broadcasting on NBCSports, Fox Sports may be interested on their cable channel. It'll depend on if the XFL wants to go head to head with the NFL. Heck, even adding a $5/month increase to WWE network and stream games live via the network may be a solid option and allow the major highlight shows to show your highlights and you could potentially own your TV rights and not have to negotiate with a broadcast partner.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:44 am    Post subject:

Huskers wrote:
If the XFL wants to really stand apart, do something like the NBA, allow 1 and done players. Use the old Cardale Jones line "We didn't go to college to play school" Get the freshman that have some name recognition to football fans after a solid year in college and then say they are draft eligible. Players like Jalen Hurts or Tau (however you spell his last name) for Bama would have a chance to go play professionally. Fromm from Georgia, so many examples. Get the kids earlier than the NFL can get them, lock them into a 3-4 year contract and boom you are getting the talent the NFL would have gotten, and you can build the viability of the your new league. Start in cities like SD, Portland, St Louis, Omaha, OKC, San Antonio. Have games in stadiums that hold 30-35K fans, this will generate a solid and rabid fan base in areas that either no longer have NFL or never have. There's plenty of players, you can build a 20 team league with an additional 53 players and have some highly competitive games that could rival the NFL. At this point it's getting the funding to make it work and a solid pay scale.

The last big key, TV. NBC may have some interest, they don't have weekend games and could use some original broadcasting on NBCSports, Fox Sports may be interested on their cable channel. It'll depend on if the XFL wants to go head to head with the NFL. Heck, even adding a $5/month increase to WWE network and stream games live via the network may be a solid option and allow the major highlight shows to show your highlights and you could potentially own your TV rights and not have to negotiate with a broadcast partner.


Yep, something like an XFL team would be a bigger deal in a medium to smaller city than some place like LA, where we don't even care about getting a 2nd NFL team and are making the Rams earn their way back to the hearts and minds of LA football fans.
Also TV or internet streaming will pretty much make or break this league. If the ratings do OK, they will be able to attract advertisers to keep it afloat. The reason it failed the first time was because NBC basically stopped the experiment after they saw how much the ratings dropped each week. We know that pro sports pretty much lives on TV money nowadays.
Finally, I wouldn't be surprised if the NFLPA welcomes this new league. It would give them more leverage in labor negotiations and be able to better extract concessions from the owners.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject:

Huskers wrote:
If the XFL wants to really stand apart, do something like the NBA, allow 1 and done players. Use the old Cardale Jones line "We didn't go to college to play school" Get the freshman that have some name recognition to football fans after a solid year in college and then say they are draft eligible. Players like Jalen Hurts or Tau (however you spell his last name) for Bama would have a chance to go play professionally. Fromm from Georgia, so many examples. Get the kids earlier than the NFL can get them, lock them into a 3-4 year contract and boom you are getting the talent the NFL would have gotten, and you can build the viability of the your new league. Start in cities like SD, Portland, St Louis, Omaha, OKC, San Antonio. Have games in stadiums that hold 30-35K fans, this will generate a solid and rabid fan base in areas that either no longer have NFL or never have. There's plenty of players, you can build a 20 team league with an additional 53 players and have some highly competitive games that could rival the NFL. At this point it's getting the funding to make it work and a solid pay scale.

The last big key, TV. NBC may have some interest, they don't have weekend games and could use some original broadcasting on NBCSports, Fox Sports may be interested on their cable channel. It'll depend on if the XFL wants to go head to head with the NFL. Heck, even adding a $5/month increase to WWE network and stream games live via the network may be a solid option and allow the major highlight shows to show your highlights and you could potentially own your TV rights and not have to negotiate with a broadcast partner.


Expanding on this, another thing the XFL could do is promote slight rule tweaks. Something like 'in the XFL, you'll know what a catch is'. Do some creative things like a FG from 50+ is worth 4 points. A way to increase scoring, make endzones 15 yards deep. Make more room and the field doesn't 'shorten' quite as much and the offense can get more points. Vince has never been shy of technology, put censors on the ball for TDs and first downs. Maybe test VR cameras on ref hats and player helmets, then fans can watch games after the fact with VR possibilities, imagine in 4 years being able to be 'on the field' when a major play happens, plus it'll open up so much more to the rabid football fan being able to be 'in the action' like that. And as much as we mock the 'hehateme' etc. Let the players have a bit more fun and freedom to celebrate and promote. There's a reason why Oregon gets so much love from teenagers, because of the freedom of their uniform. Let the teams and players have some similar type fun. I'm sure a major company like Adidas or Nike would love to be able to make new uniforms weekly for teams and have them for sale the next week in the home market.


There's a lot of potential if they don't go gimmicky with the scrum to see who gets the ball first. Everyone knows all eyes will be on the league when it starts, make it fresh, lock in some young talent and there is potential for this league to stick around. They may not last the long haul, but it may eventually force the NFL to adopt these new tweaks and not be so old.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject:

I was listening to SportsCenter this morning. They were discussing the intentions of the XFL. They want to start a league without abusers, and offenses connected to the NFL. They''re touting image and morals.

They want to draft right out of high school. Their intentions are to pay name players from the NFL exorbitant amounts and minimal payment to good players from high school and the league.

If I have it right this will be a spring, summer league. It won't actually compete with the NFL.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:37 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
I was listening to SportsCenter this morning. They were discussing the intentions of the XFL. They want to start a league without abusers, and offenses connected to the NFL. They''re touting image and morals.

They want to draft right out of high school. Their intentions are to pay name players from the NFL exorbitant amounts and minimal payment to good players from high school and the league.

If I have it right this will be a spring, summer league. It won't actually compete with the NFL.


Imagewise it probably won't look similar to the original XFL. Look how he transitioned the WWE of the early 2000's that appealed to teens and young males to something which was a lot more fan friendly, no blood, no cussing, etc. Think John Cena or Hulk Hogan. That is what the new XFL is coming for. Family friendly football. It will probably be lame for some demographics but it will appeal to others.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
bah gawd king that league had a family


lololollolllllol
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:08 pm    Post subject:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/xfl-announces-eight-teams-cities-and-stadiums-for-its-return-in-2020/
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject:

What's with this sudden infatuation with all things Pre-9-11? I thought the Roseanne reboot was as low as it could go, but now XFL? What next? Reboots for: "Friends - The Golden Years" or "Ally McBeal - Bored to Tears".
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