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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:42 am    Post subject:

Time Warner and HBO have briefly pulled Gone With The Wind from streaming on HBOMax in order to re-edit it with a disclaimer/explainer about the film's problematic depictions of the apartheid South as a foreward. Cool, that works.

Now what about a disclaimer about the problematic depictions of race in Green Book?
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ocho
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:59 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Time Warner and HBO have briefly pulled Gone With The Wind from streaming on HBOMax in order to re-edit it with a disclaimer/explainer about the film's problematic depictions of the apartheid South as a foreward. Cool, that works.

Now what about a disclaimer about the problematic depictions of race in Green Book?


I think they should leave those movies alone.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:05 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Time Warner and HBO have briefly pulled Gone With The Wind from streaming on HBOMax in order to re-edit it with a disclaimer/explainer about the film's problematic depictions of the apartheid South as a foreward. Cool, that works.

Now what about a disclaimer about the problematic depictions of race in Green Book?


I think they should leave those movies alone.

Green Book, too?
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ocho
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:28 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ocho wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Time Warner and HBO have briefly pulled Gone With The Wind from streaming on HBOMax in order to re-edit it with a disclaimer/explainer about the film's problematic depictions of the apartheid South as a foreward. Cool, that works.

Now what about a disclaimer about the problematic depictions of race in Green Book?


I think they should leave those movies alone.

Green Book, too?


Yeah I don’t want to see ideological disclaimers before every movie I watch. Engaging with art also means using your brain to consider it critically, not having your food chewed for you. There’s no shortage of essays and reading material about both films. We can consider and dissect films without re-editing them or adding short films at the top explaining that this movie made in 1939 may not be progressive by 2020 standards.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:44 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ocho wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Time Warner and HBO have briefly pulled Gone With The Wind from streaming on HBOMax in order to re-edit it with a disclaimer/explainer about the film's problematic depictions of the apartheid South as a foreward. Cool, that works.

Now what about a disclaimer about the problematic depictions of race in Green Book?


I think they should leave those movies alone.

Green Book, too?


Yeah I don’t want to see ideological disclaimers before every movie I watch. Engaging with art also means using your brain to consider it critically, not having your food chewed for you. There’s no shortage of essays and reading material about both films. We can consider and dissect films without re-editing them or adding short films at the top explaining that this movie made in 1939 may not be progressive by 2020 standards.


I tend to agree with you overall, but you don’t need to minimize the fact that the movie in question wasn’t just less progressive, it was steeped in the “lost cause” beliefs of the south that spawned Jim Crow and lynching and the clan, and put up all those statues. I don’t think a disclaimer necessarily needs to be embedded l in the film, but it is important that the fact that it is virulently racist propaganda in its basic setting should be prominently discussed, and I don’t mind if a network chooses not to air the film or to disclaim it when it does.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:57 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
ocho wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ocho wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Time Warner and HBO have briefly pulled Gone With The Wind from streaming on HBOMax in order to re-edit it with a disclaimer/explainer about the film's problematic depictions of the apartheid South as a foreward. Cool, that works.

Now what about a disclaimer about the problematic depictions of race in Green Book?


I think they should leave those movies alone.

Green Book, too?


Yeah I don’t want to see ideological disclaimers before every movie I watch. Engaging with art also means using your brain to consider it critically, not having your food chewed for you. There’s no shortage of essays and reading material about both films. We can consider and dissect films without re-editing them or adding short films at the top explaining that this movie made in 1939 may not be progressive by 2020 standards.


I tend to agree with you overall, but you don’t need to minimize the fact that the movie in question wasn’t just less progressive, it was steeped in the “lost cause” beliefs of the south that spawned Jim Crow and lynching and the clan, and put up all those statues. I don’t think a disclaimer necessarily needs to be embedded l in the film, but it is important that the fact that it is virulently racist propaganda in its basic setting should be prominently discussed, and I don’t mind if a network chooses not to air the film or to disclaim it when it does.


It wasn’t my intention to minimize any of that, which is all true. This film has been debated at length for these reasons for decades without re-editing or adding on shorts to the top. I think it sets a bad precedent. If a platform doesn’t want to show it I think that’s their decision to make, although I don’t think a platform that values film history would make it. If HBO wants to make a separate doc/short about the issues with a particular film I think that’s a fine idea actually. But don’t tack it on to the film which should have the right to stand on its own, warts and all.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:03 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ocho wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
ocho wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Time Warner and HBO have briefly pulled Gone With The Wind from streaming on HBOMax in order to re-edit it with a disclaimer/explainer about the film's problematic depictions of the apartheid South as a foreward. Cool, that works.

Now what about a disclaimer about the problematic depictions of race in Green Book?


I think they should leave those movies alone.

Green Book, too?


Yeah I don’t want to see ideological disclaimers before every movie I watch. Engaging with art also means using your brain to consider it critically, not having your food chewed for you. There’s no shortage of essays and reading material about both films. We can consider and dissect films without re-editing them or adding short films at the top explaining that this movie made in 1939 may not be progressive by 2020 standards.


I tend to agree with you overall, but you don’t need to minimize the fact that the movie in question wasn’t just less progressive, it was steeped in the “lost cause” beliefs of the south that spawned Jim Crow and lynching and the clan, and put up all those statues. I don’t think a disclaimer necessarily needs to be embedded l in the film, but it is important that the fact that it is virulently racist propaganda in its basic setting should be prominently discussed, and I don’t mind if a network chooses not to air the film or to disclaim it when it does.


It wasn’t my intention to minimize any of that, which is all true. This film has been debated at length for these reasons for decades without re-editing or adding on shorts to the top. I think it sets a bad precedent. If a platform doesn’t want to show it I think that’s their decision to make, although I don’t think a platform that values film history would make it. If HBO wants to make a separate doc/short about the issues with a particular film I think that’s a fine idea actually. But don’t tack it on to the film which should have the right to stand on its own, warts and all.


That’s fair.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:46 pm    Post subject:

Never quite got all the hate directed at Green Book. It ain’t perfect by any means but most if not all of the critiques it received regarding its historical accuracies/inaccuracies were explicitly debunked by Don Shirley himself in this interview. From what I recall, that was source of most of the ire it drew.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:20 am    Post subject:

Killer of Sheep: Agree that this is essential viewing. I was lucky to see this in a theatre some time ago. It is truly a masterful, seminal, under-appreciated film.

Gone With the Wind: I could write lengths about this, but ocho pretty much encapsulated everything that I would have said so I'll just say ditto.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:12 am    Post subject:

panamaniac wrote:
Never quite got all the hate directed at Green Book. It ain’t perfect by any means but most if not all of the critiques it received regarding its historical accuracies/inaccuracies were explicitly debunked by Don Shirley himself in this interview. From what I recall, that was source of most of the ire it drew.

I've never seen it and don't plan to ever see it, but I'll link critic Kam Collins' thoughtful engagement with the movie in response to what angered some people about the film's depiction of Dr. Shirley:
Quote:
Once you realize Green Book is really just Nick Vallelonga’s attempt to make a film out of the nifty road-trip stories his dad shared with him as a kid, the movie’s myopia is somehow harder to be mad at. It’s boneheaded, perhaps, but it’s not malicious.

Rather, that’s how I feel until I remember the sickening ways that the film fabricates Dr. Shirley’s feelings towards other blacks, his lack of black cultural knowledge, his utter racial isolation—falsehoods, according to his brother. Then I’m taken aback. It’s one thing to get historical facts wrong, or to massage them for the sake of dramatic coherence. It’s another thing entirely to take something so essential as racial identity—as the inner life of a person of color—and revise it. And to bypass due diligence. And to think, as a white filmmaker, that questions of this sort are things you can blithely make up or change outright.

Black performers touring the U.S. in the middle of the 20th century faced fearsome amounts of racism, not in the abstract, and not just in the South: Nat King Cole was attacked onstage, in Alabama, by members of the Ku Klux Klan. That was in 1956. Dr. Shirley himself faced such an incident in 1963, in Wisconsin, when he encountered a sign at the town’s limits that advised him and other blacks not to stick around after dark.

Imagine, then, revising a black man's feelings about his identity relative to such violent currents and racial antagonism. You are fundamentally revising an essential political fact of who that black man is. You are re-writing the story of how he feels about his race at a time when that race could not be more of a cultural or physical liability. You are, in effect, re-writing that identity. This is, to my mind, a fairly brash thing for a white filmmaker to do—and to do it so casually, so unknowingly, to boot.

It’s a different form of historical malpractice than the kind we usually complain about—one far more dangerous than getting the color of Dr. Shirley’s car wrong. And in the first place, it’s worth remembering that of these two men, Dr. Shirley has a substantially larger claim to true historical significance. This is the biting irony at the heart the film’s premise: Tony Lip may have gone on to have a walk-on role in The Godfather and a recurring mob-boss role in The Sopranos, but Dr. Shirley was a virtuoso recording artist—albeit under-acknowledged and not widely-enough known. He’s the guy with Robert F. Kennedy’s phone number. His is the story here that has history, writ large, to contend with—he’s here because he was exceptional, not because he told his future screenwriting son the right bedtime stories.

Link: Vanity Fair

Beyond that Green Book just came across as rote Hollywood feel-good fare that's awarded and quickly forgotten. Ever seen Out of Africa?
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ocho
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:21 am    Post subject:

I think the Morissey song that plays over the end credits of Green Book didn’t help:

https://youtu.be/-_96bgvIDlM
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:13 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
I think the Morissey song that plays over the end credits of Green Book didn’t help:

https://youtu.be/-_96bgvIDlM


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:14 pm    Post subject:

Mel Winkler, longtime voiceover and character actor, has passed away at age 78: Hollywood Reporter
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:16 pm    Post subject:

Denise Cronenberg who was a costume designer on most of her younger brother's films has passed away at age 81: Toronto Star
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:50 pm    Post subject:

That vanity fair piece presents a lot of fallacies; it figures that as soon as the movie dropped they’re suddenly music history scholars. Shirley and Vallelonga were in fact good friends, as corroborated in the audio tape by Shirley himself. Shirley did in fact live in isolation (in one of the artist units above Carnegie Hall, which he owned for over 50 years). For better or worse, Shirley did in fact harbor a distaste for artists that fell out of the classical umbrella. When speaking of jazz musicians, Shirley said “ they smoke while they’re playing, and they’ll put the glass of whisky on the piano, and then they’ll get mad when they’re not respected like Arthur Rubinstein. You don’t see Arthur Rubinstein smoking and putting a glass on the piano.” (from an ‘82 nyt article) He resented being recognized as a jazz muso, as his true artistic aspiration was that of a concert pianist. He also despised improv and took issue with the notion that an artist should also be viewed as an entertainer, saying “I am not an entertainer. But I’m running the risk of being considered an entertainer by going into a nightclub because that’s what they have in there. I don’t want anybody to know me well enough to slap me on the back and say, ‘Hey, baby.’ The black experience through music, with a sense of dignity, that’s all I have ever tried to do.” I think it’s safe to say he was a complicated and enigmatic figure, who stringently adhered to his views and principles. Perhaps his story would have been told in the hands of another director. However most of what you see in the movie, particularly as it pertains to the relationship between the two leads, is certainly not of the drummed up bedtime story variety. My biggest gripe with it is it’s too condensed, as the actual tour embarked on by Dr. Shirley and Villelonga actually lasted about a year and a half. Hard not to make acquaintances in that time. All in all I found it to be a pretty substantial story about the unlikely friendship between two men, set to the backdrop of 1960s segregated America. Perhaps others disliked it and that’s fine. But to call it’s real life depictions ‘dangerous’ is a bit obtuse and likely of the click-baity variety.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:28 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Some streaming odds and ends:

Amazon Prime

In light of recent events, Warner Bros. has made Just Mercy (2019) free to rent on multiple digital platforms including iTunes and Amazon Prime.

The well-reviewed historical SciFi flick The Vast of Night (2020) was recently released and is available to stream at no additional cost for Prime members.

Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter...and Spring Again (2003), the gentle, contemplative romance between a young monk and a woman from South Korean provocateur and credibly accused rapist Kim Ki-duk, is both hard to track down and very much worth watching before it disappears into the streaming ether again.

Criterion

In addition to a number of cool additions from queer filmmakers for Pride Month, including an almost exhaustive collection of Chantal Akerman's ouevre and three hard-to-find flicks from Gregg Araki, the Channel is also debuting Bonello's Zombi Child (2019) and the highly lauded Berliniale Golden Bear winner Synonymes (2019), which had their American theatrical runs cut short due to coronavirus.

Hulu

Josephine Decker's follow-up to the excellent Madeline's Madeline is Shirley about influential American horror novelist Shirley Jackson starring Elisabeth Moss in the titular role along with Michael Stuhlbarg. One of the most critically lauded films of 2020 so far.

Shudder

The entire Female Prisoner #701 series hit Shudder on June 1st and is an awesome, influential, and beautifully made cult favorite.

Virtual Screenings

Two newly released older movies will be available to rent on June 5th through virtual cinemas where you can help support local indie theaters near you and catch a couple heretofore undistributed flicks from underrated directors.

Hong Sang-soo's 2016 film Yourself and Yours, which unfairly got lost in the shuffle of his creative explosion from 2014-2018, will be streaming through Cinema Guild's virtual cinema initiative. More info here: http://www.cinemaguild.com/theatrical/yourselfandyours.html

Abel Ferrara's personal character study, Tommaso (2019), starring Willem Dafoe as a recovering addict who moves to Italy and finds love with a younger woman is streaming courtesy of KinoLorber. More info here: https://www.kinolorber.com/film/view/id/3896

Da 5 Bloods is now streaming on Netflix
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:02 am    Post subject:

Three heretofore hard to find masterpieces from Yoshishige "Kijū" Yoshida are now easy to find on streaming platforms:

Eros+Massacre (1969; theatrical cut) - Tubi (with ads)
Heroic Purgatory (1971) - Prime
Coup D'etat (1973) - Prime

They're not always easy watches, but (imo) they're essential watches.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:23 pm    Post subject:

Da Five Bloods

CGI blood

Landmines...?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:18 pm    Post subject:

1986 film parallels: in both Critters and The Color of Money, the euphemism that the "earth moved" as shorthand for a woman having an orgasm is used as a quick gag. Was "the earth moved" a common bit by the mid-80s?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:53 pm    Post subject:

Any new drive-in's popping up in SoCal or in your city? Sounds like a great idea right about now.

in NorCal, they are converting fairgrounds for such purposes.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:33 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
Any new drive-in's popping up in SoCal or in your city? Sounds like a great idea right about now.

in NorCal, they are converting fairgrounds for such purposes.

Don't know about SoCal, but the drive-in near me has announced it'll be screening Tenet whenever it comes out, so that's where I'll be to see it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:23 pm    Post subject:

PSA: A bunch of Youssef Chahine films popped up on Netflix in the US.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:09 pm    Post subject:

The Spook Who Sat by the Door (1973) - based on the 1969 novel by Sam Greenlee and directed by "Hogan's Heroes" alum Ivan Dixon, this is an essential American movie, an incisive satire about a successful "Uncle Tom," Dan Freeman (Lawrence Cook), who is recruited by the CIA and joins their ranks as their first diversity hire and then quits five years later to become a subversive leader in Chicago who trains black militants in CIA tactics to fight back against white America to earn true freedom. It's didactic, it's rough, it's funny, and it's absolutely right on with Lawrence Cook giving a magnetic lead performance.

I dig Peter Bogdonavich's movies. There's more than enough space for The Last Picture Show and The Spook, but it's telling which early '70s movie about reckoning with America's past and changing present has been passed down in canonical "best of" lists and new media releases over the decades and which movie hasn't and why.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:41 pm    Post subject:

What are your favorite super hero movies?

I got the Nolan Batman trilogy as my top 3. Dark Knight as 1. Batman Begins as 2. Dark Knight Returns as 3.
Then the most recent Avengers movies rounding out my top 5. Endgame 4. Infinity War 5.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:59 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
Any new drive-in's popping up in SoCal or in your city? Sounds like a great idea right about now.

in NorCal, they are converting fairgrounds for such purposes.


Ventura County fairgrounds have planned to host live stream music concerts. Next Saturday they are showing a Garth Brooks concert.
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