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panamaniac
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 Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | panamaniac wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Who or what in movies do you not "get?" |
Indiana Jones isn’t good, and not to pick on Harrison Ford, but I absolutely refuse to believe that anybody actually enjoys Blade Runner. |
Which version?  |
I haven’t seen the new one. |
Was referencing the original which is notorious for having many versions. Those versions are not very dissimilar from the theatrical cut, so you’d probably dislike them as well. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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I like the more ambiguous directors cut, but I understand the desire of the studio to leaven the dark material with a bit of a more hopeful ending.
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| panamaniac wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | panamaniac wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Who or what in movies do you not "get?" |
Indiana Jones isn’t good, and not to pick on Harrison Ford, but I absolutely refuse to believe that anybody actually enjoys Blade Runner. |
Which version? |
I haven’t seen the new one. |
Was referencing the original which is notorious for having many versions. Those versions are not very dissimilar from the theatrical cut, so you’d probably dislike them as well. |
I believe I’ve seen two different versions of the original. I’ve given it a lot of chances. I really, really wanted to see why people universally say they love it. Eventually landed on the idea that they all must be lying.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | panamaniac wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | panamaniac wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Who or what in movies do you not "get?" |
Indiana Jones isn’t good, and not to pick on Harrison Ford, but I absolutely refuse to believe that anybody actually enjoys Blade Runner. |
Which version? |
I haven’t seen the new one. |
Was referencing the original which is notorious for having many versions. Those versions are not very dissimilar from the theatrical cut, so you’d probably dislike them as well. |
I believe I’ve seen two different versions of the original. I’ve given it a lot of chances. I really, really wanted to see why people universally say they love it. Eventually landed on the idea that they all must be lying. |
Yesss...yesss...
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | panamaniac wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | panamaniac wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Who or what in movies do you not "get?" |
Indiana Jones isn’t good, and not to pick on Harrison Ford, but I absolutely refuse to believe that anybody actually enjoys Blade Runner. |
Which version? |
I haven’t seen the new one. |
Was referencing the original which is notorious for having many versions. Those versions are not very dissimilar from the theatrical cut, so you’d probably dislike them as well. |
I believe I’ve seen two different versions of the original. I’ve given it a lot of chances. I really, really wanted to see why people universally say they love it. Eventually landed on the idea that they all must be lying. |
That’s fair. To me one of the cool things about Blade Runner is the mythos that is behind it. It’s one of the early progenitors if the cyber punk genre, also borrowing heavily from French sci-fi comics, particularly the artist Moebius, who was Ridley Scott’s first choice for art direction. It does a great job of blending genres, namely futuristic sci-fi and film noire, flanked by a beautiful score from Vangelis. I could be wrong but it must have been the first film since maybe Metropolis to offer a vibrant and realistic futuristic landscape. The story is really simple, in fact the entire plot is all but revealed during Deckards initial brief at the precinct. I don’t think it works as a straight plot driven story, but rather as an ambitious collage of themes and ideas, all of which are weaved skillfully by Scott with his visual and sound teams. Of course there’s also the fact that it tanked hard upon release, only to find a second life with audiences during its home video run, which reinforces its status as a cult favorite amongst fans of sci-fi. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| panamaniac wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | panamaniac wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | panamaniac wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Who or what in movies do you not "get?" |
Indiana Jones isn’t good, and not to pick on Harrison Ford, but I absolutely refuse to believe that anybody actually enjoys Blade Runner. |
Which version? |
I haven’t seen the new one. |
Was referencing the original which is notorious for having many versions. Those versions are not very dissimilar from the theatrical cut, so you’d probably dislike them as well. |
I believe I’ve seen two different versions of the original. I’ve given it a lot of chances. I really, really wanted to see why people universally say they love it. Eventually landed on the idea that they all must be lying. |
That’s fair. To me one of the cool things about Blade Runner is the mythos that is behind it. It’s one of the early progenitors if the cyber punk genre, also borrowing heavily from French sci-fi comics, particularly the artist Moebius, who was Ridley Scott’s first choice for art direction. It does a great job of blending genres, namely futuristic sci-fi and film noire, flanked by a beautiful score from Vangelis. I could be wrong but it must have been the first film since maybe Metropolis to offer a vibrant and realistic futuristic landscape. The story is really simple, in fact the entire plot is all but revealed during Deckards initial brief at the precinct. I don’t think it works as a straight plot driven story, but rather as an ambitious collage of themes and ideas, all of which are weaved skillfully by Scott with his visual and sound teams. Of course there’s also the fact that it tanked hard upon release, only to find a second life with audiences during its home video run, which contributes to its status a cult favorite amongst fans of sci-fi. |
I can’t deny its visual flourishes, particularly in the context of the period in which it was made. I just don’t think it has anything else going for it. Every time I watch it I’m looking for something, anything, rich to hold on to and never find it. The movie, like its characters, literally and figuratively have no pulse.
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | I can’t deny its visual flourishes, particularly in the context of the period in which it was made. I just don’t think it has anything else going for it. Every time I watch it I’m looking for something, anything, rich to hold on to and never find it. The movie, like its characters, literally and figuratively have no pulse. |
All fair critiques. Personally, I find its deadpan and linear pulse to be part of the film's appeal. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Everything in Blade Runner is subsumed. The ever present rain, dark, noise, filth, all adds up to a very disassociative desperation and loneliness. The characters are rich and vibrant, but operating under layers of that.
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The characters are rich and vibrant |
This is where I start to feel like a crazy person.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | The characters are rich and vibrant |
This is where I start to feel like a crazy person. |
It occurred to me a little while back that very smart, passionate viewers of film can just be left cold by a film or a performance that others love. And be neither wrong nor right. I find most of Tarantino and DDH’s work to be tedious and “hey look at me I’m making art over here”, but others just love it. Including people I respect. And whose view on art I respect. So I’m re-examining my “if it doesn’t reach me it’s crap” mentality. Ymmv.
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | The characters are rich and vibrant |
This is where I start to feel like a crazy person. |
It occurred to me a little while back that very smart, passionate viewers of film can just be left cold by a film or a performance that others love. And be neither wrong nor right. I find most of Tarantino and DDH’s work to be tedious and “hey look at me I’m making art over here”, but others just love it. Including people I respect. And whose view on art I respect. So I’m re-examining my “if it doesn’t reach me it’s crap” mentality. Ymmv. |
To be clear, this movie ONLY upsets me because people I respect like it. If everyone agreed with me I’d never think about it or revisit it again. There’s a lot of popular movies I don’t like and I’m fine with that. But not this one
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | The characters are rich and vibrant |
This is where I start to feel like a crazy person. |
Each character is wrestling with some type of flaw or limitation. Deckard is an alchoholic who just doesn't GAF, and is sleepwalking through the entire investigation. Roy wants to break the glass ceiling that is his 4 year lifespan so he can be some sort of demigod. Pris is like a teenager trying to find her place. JF Sebastien is your typical mad scientist who because of his own frailty (can't live in the outer colonies because of his rapidly aging condition) has come to worship his own creations (the replicants). Rachael's self-view is marred by the fact that she is a replicant, and yearns for the authentic human experience. Yes, Gaff and Tyrell are kinda bland. But one is played by Eddie James Olmos so he gets a pass. I think there is plenty of internal struggle to be found between characters. As Omar pointed out, a lot of it is subtext. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| panamaniac wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | The characters are rich and vibrant |
This is where I start to feel like a crazy person. |
Each character is wrestling with some type of flaw or limitation. Deckard is an alchoholic who just doesn't GAF, and is sleepwalking through the entire investigation. Roy wants to break the glass ceiling that is his 4 year lifespan so he can be some sort of demigod. Pris is like a teenager trying to find her place. JF Sebastien is your typical mad scientist who because of his own frailty (he can't live in the outer colonies because of his rapidly aging condition) has come to worship his own creations (the replicants). Rachael's self-view is marred by the fact that she is a replicant, and yearns for the authentic human experience. Yes, Gaff and Tyrell are kinda bland. But one is played by Eddie James Olmos so he gets a pass. I think there is plenty of internal struggle to be found between characters. As Omar pointed out, a lot of it is subtext. |
It’s been a few years but it felt like everyone was sleepwalking their way through it. I do think basic themes and character sketches can be present without being given life, which is my experience with it.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| FernieBee wrote: | You should watch this...
Bad Boys
(1983) |
Watched it today. I knew he wasn't going to kill Paco. Scale of 1 - 10...6
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Who or what in movies do you not "get?" |
Indiana Jones isn’t good, and not to pick on Harrison Ford, but I absolutely refuse to believe that anybody actually enjoys Blade Runner. |
I enjoyed the first 3 Indy flicks. The most recent one was just awful, however. It was like they were just going through the motions, all of them (including Cate Blanchett), and even the special effects looked super fake. |
The Indy movies never clicked with me as a kid. I watched Raiders a couple months ago to see if anything had changed. I really wanted to get why people love it so much. Still don’t get it. |
Place and time may have a lot to do with it. I remember the long lines for Raiders, the opening scene just amazing everyone and generally loving most of it. Now, my kids are kind of like ho hum when they've watched it. Shoot, I remember reading a story from Michael Crichton's Travels book talking about how he went to some jungle somewhere meeting someone from some tribe who saw a movie called "Hindy" (it was Raiders) and it was about a man overcoming his fear of snakes. So if you remove place and time from the context of a film, it may be a different experience. If you released The Godfather now, I suspect it wouldn't resonate quite as much with many people as it did at the time. |
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | It’s been a few years but it felt like everyone was sleepwalking their way through it. I do think basic themes and character sketches can be present without being given life, which is my experience with it. |
That's fair. Personally I can't get enough of Blade Runner, but I acknowledge its potential for polarization.
Last edited by panamaniac on Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: |
I can’t deny its visual flourishes, particularly in the context of the period in which it was made. I just don’t think it has anything else going for it. Every time I watch it I’m looking for something, anything, rich to hold on to and never find it. The movie, like its characters, literally and figuratively have no pulse. |
Ha, just read this. So, yeah, I guess you are considering context. Which in Blade Runner's case, seeing that for the first time back then, there was really nothing like it all. It was a vastly different visual look and take on the future than most other films. That was kind of a big deal, just being wide eyed as a viewer dumped into this dark world you've never imagined. But, Blade Runner, I know a lot of people who don't like that one, for sure. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | ocho wrote: |
I can’t deny its visual flourishes, particularly in the context of the period in which it was made. I just don’t think it has anything else going for it. Every time I watch it I’m looking for something, anything, rich to hold on to and never find it. The movie, like its characters, literally and figuratively have no pulse. |
Ha, just read this. So, yeah, I guess you are considering context. Which in Blade Runner's case, seeing that for the first time back then, there was really nothing like it all. It was a vastly different visual look and take on the future than most other films. That was kind of a big deal, just being wide eyed as a viewer dumped into this dark world you've never imagined. But, Blade Runner, I know a lot of people who don't like that one, for sure. |
I definitely appreciate both with Indy and BR that there’s an element of period context that holds value. Even by today’s standards, creating a signature atmosphere visually is no small feat. I always think of this particularly in old movies known for their legendary car chases. In my opinion a lot of them have not aged very well but I understand they had to walk so future films could run.
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DancingBarry
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I feel like the older stuff just hold up less and less. Certainly with my kids now (both teens), I'm often surprised when they like something from a few decades ago. It's even hard to get them to be interested in movies, in general, as they like binge watching and character development over the course of a series. It's a pleasant surprise when some older film will draw them in, but it's certainly the exception these days. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Every generation thinks the ones after it doesn’t have the same attention span or appreciation for the things they value, but it is definitely true that technology and streaming and the change in the whole movie and tv structure is bringing us a lot more pace and sizzle over development and storytelling. There’s a lot of good tv and still some good work in film, but my kids, for example, don’t want to read much and want everything bang bang bang bang bang.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Would highly recommend The Assistant. |
Watched it. It's a well made movie. It's grounded to the real world to a fault.
So I understand why the critics gave in 92% on rotten tomatoes but viewers gave it 25%.
It's not an enjoyable film to watch. Like the real world, it's painful and unsatisfying.
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Would highly recommend The Assistant. |
Watched it. It's a well made movie. It's grounded to the real world to a fault.
So I understand why the critics gave in 92% on rotten tomatoes but viewers gave it 25%.
It's not an enjoyable film to watch. Like the real world, it's painful and unsatisfying. |
I used to work as an assistant to a couple different agents at a top agency. It was my first job out of college. While my experience isn’t quite like the one depicted in the film, I can assure you that fresh-out-of-college young people are routinely abused and demeaned, often in public view of their colleagues. The film really captures a lot of the little details of the job, plus the language and practices of abusive people in positions of authority. I love a lot of the choices they made with the movie but yeah I understand why some would find the pace and verite of it all a bit punishing.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Would highly recommend The Assistant. |
Watched it. It's a well made movie. It's grounded to the real world to a fault.
So I understand why the critics gave in 92% on rotten tomatoes but viewers gave it 25%.
It's not an enjoyable film to watch. Like the real world, it's painful and unsatisfying. |
I used to work as an assistant to a couple different agents at a top agency. It was my first job out of college. While my experience isn’t quite like the one depicted in the film, I can assure you that fresh-out-of-college young people are routinely abused and demeaned, often in public view of their colleagues. The film really captures a lot of the little details of the job, plus the language and practices of abusive people in positions of authority. I love a lot of the choices they made with the movie but yeah I understand why some would find the pace and verite of it all a bit punishing. |
Spoilers for anybody who hasn't seen it. But 2 things really stood out to me.
(select the text below with your mouse to see)
1) The assistant had more power than she realized. And that's why her boss always ended up reconciling after her "transgressions".
2) How positive reinforcement is a key piece of the puzzle to maintaining an abusive relationship. The smallest compliment from the boss or the driver really motivated her to enable the boss's behavior moving forward.
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| panamaniac wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | The characters are rich and vibrant |
This is where I start to feel like a crazy person. |
Each character is wrestling with some type of flaw or limitation. Deckard is an alchoholic who just doesn't GAF, and is sleepwalking through the entire investigation. Roy wants to break the glass ceiling that is his 4 year lifespan so he can be some sort of demigod. Pris is like a teenager trying to find her place. JF Sebastien is your typical mad scientist who because of his own frailty (can't live in the outer colonies because of his rapidly aging condition) has come to worship his own creations (the replicants). Rachael's self-view is marred by the fact that she is a replicant, and yearns for the authentic human experience. Yes, Gaff and Tyrell are kinda bland. But one is played by Eddie James Olmos so he gets a pass. I think there is plenty of internal struggle to be found between characters. As Omar pointed out, a lot of it is subtext. |
Well done, that was my take was well except for one difference: I thought Harrison Ford copied Bogart's Sam Spade. He wasn't a workaholic as much as he was just exhausted, hardened and cynical, to the point where he was incapable of accepting the concept of humanity. That's what made the scene where Roy saves Deckard powerful, it forces Deckard to confront that the replicant has, in his waning moments, more humanity than himself. And that's the lesson that Gaff accepts as well, which is within the theme of the movie: What defines us as being human? |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Just Mercy
Based on a true story wiki
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