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GOODRICH25
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
BizLA wrote:
Everyones all caught up in this LeBron hype.. it's simple what the Lakers need to do.

Get a REAL center- DeMarcus Cousins
Get some players who can shoot the damn 3.

Then let Ingram Kuzma and Ball develop into the stars that they will all be.


Real centers win titles. Wait, 2003 is calling.


how many times will you repeat this, yet ignore when someone calls you out?
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
BizLA wrote:
Everyones all caught up in this LeBron hype.. it's simple what the Lakers need to do.

Get a REAL center- DeMarcus Cousins
Get some players who can shoot the damn 3.

Then let Ingram Kuzma and Ball develop into the stars that they will all be.


Real centers win titles. Wait, 2003 is calling.


how many times will you repeat this, yet ignore when someone calls you out?


So who was the last team to win a title with a real (as in old fashioned) center? GS, Cleveland, Dallas, Spurs, Lakers, Heat? How many of them relied on feeding the center in the post? Those teams were led by guys like Curry, Lebron, Dirk, Kobe. That is how you win today. The game seems to have passed you by.
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BizLA
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:36 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
BizLA wrote:
Everyones all caught up in this LeBron hype.. it's simple what the Lakers need to do.

Get a REAL center- DeMarcus Cousins
Get some players who can shoot the damn 3.

Then let Ingram Kuzma and Ball develop into the stars that they will all be.


Real centers win titles. Wait, 2003 is calling.


how many times will you repeat this, yet ignore when someone calls you out?


So who was the last team to win a title with a real (as in old fashioned) center? GS, Cleveland, Dallas, Spurs, Lakers, Heat? How many of them relied on feeding the center in the post? Those teams were led by guys like Curry, Lebron, Dirk, Kobe. That is how you win today. The game seems to have passed you by.


Just to clarify I never said centers are what wins titles in todays game. But you'd be in denial if you tried to say a DeMarcus Cousins wouldn't make a major impact on this team immediately in replace of the god awful Brook Lopez.

And just because GSW has had great success without a dominant big man that doesn't mean another team on the rise can't come along and change what's considered to be the winning formula. If you can't outrun and outshoot the Warriors how do you beat them? Maybe then a center is the answer.

Have you been following around the league? Look at guys like Embiid, Towns & Porzingis... these are dominant big men that teams are building their future around. Do you think none of those 3 will lead a team to a championship in the future?
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GOODRICH25
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
BizLA wrote:
Everyones all caught up in this LeBron hype.. it's simple what the Lakers need to do.

Get a REAL center- DeMarcus Cousins
Get some players who can shoot the damn 3.

Then let Ingram Kuzma and Ball develop into the stars that they will all be.


Real centers win titles. Wait, 2003 is calling.


how many times will you repeat this, yet ignore when someone calls you out?


So who was the last team to win a title with a real (as in old fashioned) center? GS, Cleveland, Dallas, Spurs, Lakers, Heat? How many of them relied on feeding the center in the post? Those teams were led by guys like Curry, Lebron, Dirk, Kobe. That is how you win today. The game seems to have passed you by.


and you dont seem to understand simple statements, or chose not to understand them. so here, let me ask you (again)? today, would you take a prime Shaq/Duncan and build your team around them? where would you rate a prime Shaq/Duncan if they played today, in terms of best players in the league? how do you think teams would defend a prime Shaq/Duncan, surrounded by 4 3pt shooters on the floor? share your wisdom with us
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:17 pm    Post subject:

Maybe a young Shaq who could move on defense but not a 28 yo Shaq. Duncan probably, he could shoot from outside the paint and was a much better defender than Shaq or Cousins. And was a better passer. He had great footwork as well. Cousins can move on defense but sometimes chooses not to. If he is our best player we won’t win titles.
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BizLA
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Maybe a young Shaq who could move on defense but not a 28 yo Shaq. Duncan probably, he could shoot from outside the paint and was a much better defender than Shaq or Cousins. And was a better passer. He had great footwork as well. Cousins can move on defense but sometimes chooses not to. If he is our best player we won’t win titles.


Bringing in Cousins would make us a playoff team. The idea would not be for him to carry us to titles, but instead help speed up the process. He would be the best player on the Lakers for a year or 2 before Ingram and or Kuzma reaches allstar level. At this rate Ingram and Kuzma are really only a couple yrs away.
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A Mad Chinaman
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:16 am    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
BizLA wrote:
Everyones all caught up in this LeBron hype.. it's simple what the Lakers need to do.

Get a REAL center- DeMarcus Cousins
Get some players who can shoot the damn 3.

Then let Ingram Kuzma and Ball develop into the stars that they will all be.
Real centers win titles. Wait, 2003 is calling.
how many times will you repeat this, yet ignore when someone calls you out?
So who was the last team to win a title with a real (as in old fashioned) center? GS, Cleveland, Dallas, Spurs, Lakers, Heat? How many of them relied on feeding the center in the post? Those teams were led by guys like Curry, Lebron, Dirk, Kobe. That is how you win today. The game seems to have passed you by.
and you dont seem to understand simple statements, or chose not to understand them. so here, let me ask you (again)? today, would you take a prime Shaq/Duncan and build your team around them? where would you rate a prime Shaq/Duncan if they played today, in terms of best players in the league? how do you think teams would defend a prime Shaq/Duncan, surrounded by 4 3pt shooters on the floor? share your wisdom with us
Maybe the most important question, are there any legitimate bruising centers that can dominate the paint?

Would LeBron work well with Embiid (#1 choice of a legitimate center)

Other choices of note are Towns, Cousins, Gasol and Davis
(http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2683750-nba-player-power-rankings-brs-top-30-centers-at-the-halfway-point)

With 7 foot centers taking 3pt shots, somebody like She would have destroyed all the centers on offense. On defense, he would have forced opposing centers to take 3pt shots exclusively. Outside of Boogie, that would a tradeoff that any team would love
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BizLA
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
BizLA wrote:
Everyones all caught up in this LeBron hype.. it's simple what the Lakers need to do.

Get a REAL center- DeMarcus Cousins
Get some players who can shoot the damn 3.

Then let Ingram Kuzma and Ball develop into the stars that they will all be.
Real centers win titles. Wait, 2003 is calling.
how many times will you repeat this, yet ignore when someone calls you out?
So who was the last team to win a title with a real (as in old fashioned) center? GS, Cleveland, Dallas, Spurs, Lakers, Heat? How many of them relied on feeding the center in the post? Those teams were led by guys like Curry, Lebron, Dirk, Kobe. That is how you win today. The game seems to have passed you by.
and you dont seem to understand simple statements, or chose not to understand them. so here, let me ask you (again)? today, would you take a prime Shaq/Duncan and build your team around them? where would you rate a prime Shaq/Duncan if they played today, in terms of best players in the league? how do you think teams would defend a prime Shaq/Duncan, surrounded by 4 3pt shooters on the floor? share your wisdom with us
Maybe the most important question, are there any legitimate bruising centers that can dominate the paint?

Would LeBron work well with Embiid (#1 choice of a legitimate center)

Other choices of note are Towns, Cousins, Gasol and Davis
(http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2683750-nba-player-power-rankings-brs-top-30-centers-at-the-halfway-point)

With 7 foot centers taking 3pt shots, somebody like She would have destroyed all the centers on offense. On defense, he would have forced opposing centers to take 3pt shots exclusively. Outside of Boogie, that would a tradeoff that any team would love


Towns is lights out from 3..
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GOODRICH25
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Maybe a young Shaq who could move on defense but not a 28 yo Shaq. Duncan probably, he could shoot from outside the paint and was a much better defender than Shaq or Cousins. And was a better passer. He had great footwork as well. Cousins can move on defense but sometimes chooses not to. If he is our best player we won’t win titles.


the point was - its not best players at certain position that win you the league, its top5 talent. just look at like all the championships from 2000 till today. how many teams didnt have a top5 player in the league that won the title? maybe only Spurs in 2014 and Pistons in 2004, but they still had multiple near all star level performers. how many of these teams didnt have atleast another allstar on the team to support the top5 talent? again, only Spurs and Pistons, and Dallas too probably (Terry, Marion, Peja and Kidd were out of prime). so what do you need to win a chip? a top 5 player in the league, surrounded by atleast another allstar, and quality role players. do these players need to be SFs or PGs? the last great SF to lead a team to a championship before Bron and KD was Bird in 86. the last great PG to lead a team to a championship before Curry was Isiah Thomas in 1990. did you think in 2008 you cant build your team around a great SF? did you think in 2013 you cant win a chip with your team built around a PG?

anyway, to get back to what you said. Shaq and Duncan were both top5 players easily in their prime, so it was easy to build a team with them as the cornerstone. Cousins (still) isnt on that level. he wont win (most likely) your team a championship, not because best centers dont do that anymore, but because other teams have better players (Durant, Curry, Harden, Bron etc.). BUT, you have a young core of Ball-Ingram-Kuzma, you want to build around them and you have the chance to upgrade from Lopez to Cousins? yes, you absolutely do that
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BizLA
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Maybe a young Shaq who could move on defense but not a 28 yo Shaq. Duncan probably, he could shoot from outside the paint and was a much better defender than Shaq or Cousins. And was a better passer. He had great footwork as well. Cousins can move on defense but sometimes chooses not to. If he is our best player we won’t win titles.


the point was - its not best players at certain position that win you the league, its top5 talent. just look at like all the championships from 2000 till today. how many teams didnt have a top5 player in the league that won the title? maybe only Spurs in 2014 and Pistons in 2004, but they still had multiple near all star level performers. how many of these teams didnt have atleast another allstar on the team to support the top5 talent? again, only Spurs and Pistons, and Dallas too probably (Terry, Marion, Peja and Kidd were out of prime). so what do you need to win a chip? a top 5 player in the league, surrounded by atleast another allstar, and quality role players. do these players need to be SFs or PGs? the last great SF to lead a team to a championship before Bron and KD was Bird in 86. the last great PG to lead a team to a championship before Curry was Isiah Thomas in 1990. did you think in 2008 you cant build your team around a great SF? did you think in 2013 you cant win a chip with your team built around a PG?

anyway, to get back to what you said. Shaq and Duncan were both top5 players easily in their prime, so it was easy to build a team with them as the cornerstone. Cousins (still) isnt on that level. he wont win (most likely) your team a championship, not because best centers dont do that anymore, but because other teams have better players (Durant, Curry, Harden, Bron etc.). BUT, you have a young core of Ball-Ingram-Kuzma, you want to build around them and you have the chance to upgrade from Lopez to Cousins? yes, you absolutely do that


This is spot on. And DeMarcus Cousins is no push over he's arguably the best center in the league.. the guy averages 26 and 12 AND shoots the 3 better than anyone on our team.

Combine that with the continued rapid development of Ingram and Kuzma this team would be a contender in no time.
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GOODRICH25
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject:

BizLA wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Maybe a young Shaq who could move on defense but not a 28 yo Shaq. Duncan probably, he could shoot from outside the paint and was a much better defender than Shaq or Cousins. And was a better passer. He had great footwork as well. Cousins can move on defense but sometimes chooses not to. If he is our best player we won’t win titles.


the point was - its not best players at certain position that win you the league, its top5 talent. just look at like all the championships from 2000 till today. how many teams didnt have a top5 player in the league that won the title? maybe only Spurs in 2014 and Pistons in 2004, but they still had multiple near all star level performers. how many of these teams didnt have atleast another allstar on the team to support the top5 talent? again, only Spurs and Pistons, and Dallas too probably (Terry, Marion, Peja and Kidd were out of prime). so what do you need to win a chip? a top 5 player in the league, surrounded by atleast another allstar, and quality role players. do these players need to be SFs or PGs? the last great SF to lead a team to a championship before Bron and KD was Bird in 86. the last great PG to lead a team to a championship before Curry was Isiah Thomas in 1990. did you think in 2008 you cant build your team around a great SF? did you think in 2013 you cant win a chip with your team built around a PG?

anyway, to get back to what you said. Shaq and Duncan were both top5 players easily in their prime, so it was easy to build a team with them as the cornerstone. Cousins (still) isnt on that level. he wont win (most likely) your team a championship, not because best centers dont do that anymore, but because other teams have better players (Durant, Curry, Harden, Bron etc.). BUT, you have a young core of Ball-Ingram-Kuzma, you want to build around them and you have the chance to upgrade from Lopez to Cousins? yes, you absolutely do that


This is spot on. And DeMarcus Cousins is no push over he's arguably the best center in the league.. the guy averages 26 and 12 AND shoots the 3 better than anyone on our team.

Combine that with the continued rapid development of Ingram and Kuzma this team would be a contender in no time.


ageed. this core if it stays together can grow into something special. a opportunity presents itself to replace:

13.0 4.4 1.7 0.4 1.6 30%3pt with:
26.2 12.2 5.1 1.5 1.5 36%3pt

you do that. then, lets say we replace KCP with Bradley (on a 1 year deal preferably, try to bring Klay back home from Oakland in 2019), the young guys grow even more and you get much better in just one year.
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BizLA
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:29 pm    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
BizLA wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Maybe a young Shaq who could move on defense but not a 28 yo Shaq. Duncan probably, he could shoot from outside the paint and was a much better defender than Shaq or Cousins. And was a better passer. He had great footwork as well. Cousins can move on defense but sometimes chooses not to. If he is our best player we won’t win titles.


the point was - its not best players at certain position that win you the league, its top5 talent. just look at like all the championships from 2000 till today. how many teams didnt have a top5 player in the league that won the title? maybe only Spurs in 2014 and Pistons in 2004, but they still had multiple near all star level performers. how many of these teams didnt have atleast another allstar on the team to support the top5 talent? again, only Spurs and Pistons, and Dallas too probably (Terry, Marion, Peja and Kidd were out of prime). so what do you need to win a chip? a top 5 player in the league, surrounded by atleast another allstar, and quality role players. do these players need to be SFs or PGs? the last great SF to lead a team to a championship before Bron and KD was Bird in 86. the last great PG to lead a team to a championship before Curry was Isiah Thomas in 1990. did you think in 2008 you cant build your team around a great SF? did you think in 2013 you cant win a chip with your team built around a PG?

anyway, to get back to what you said. Shaq and Duncan were both top5 players easily in their prime, so it was easy to build a team with them as the cornerstone. Cousins (still) isnt on that level. he wont win (most likely) your team a championship, not because best centers dont do that anymore, but because other teams have better players (Durant, Curry, Harden, Bron etc.). BUT, you have a young core of Ball-Ingram-Kuzma, you want to build around them and you have the chance to upgrade from Lopez to Cousins? yes, you absolutely do that


This is spot on. And DeMarcus Cousins is no push over he's arguably the best center in the league.. the guy averages 26 and 12 AND shoots the 3 better than anyone on our team.

Combine that with the continued rapid development of Ingram and Kuzma this team would be a contender in no time.


ageed. this core if it stays together can grow into something special. a opportunity presents itself to replace:

13.0 4.4 1.7 0.4 1.6 30%3pt with:
26.2 12.2 5.1 1.5 1.5 36%3pt

you do that. then, lets say we replace KCP with Bradley (on a 1 year deal preferably, try to bring Klay back home from Oakland in 2019), the young guys grow even more and you get much better in just one year.


Avery Bradley? He's a good player just not real fond of the thought of having a 6'2" guy at the 2 guard..but then again I guess it would only be for a year.

Klay would be a perfect fit on this team. Would he be willing to join? Tough to say. Either way I'm confident we will be able to acquire a big name either before the deadline or this offseason..and even if we don't we still have 3 young players who all appear to have future allstar careers and in a few yrs we could be the next Warriors powerhouse built thru the draft. Worst case scenario speaking.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Maybe a young Shaq who could move on defense but not a 28 yo Shaq. Duncan probably, he could shoot from outside the paint and was a much better defender than Shaq or Cousins. And was a better passer. He had great footwork as well. Cousins can move on defense but sometimes chooses not to. If he is our best player we won’t win titles.


the point was - its not best players at certain position that win you the league, its top5 talent. just look at like all the championships from 2000 till today. how many teams didnt have a top5 player in the league that won the title? maybe only Spurs in 2014 and Pistons in 2004, but they still had multiple near all star level performers. how many of these teams didnt have atleast another allstar on the team to support the top5 talent? again, only Spurs and Pistons, and Dallas too probably (Terry, Marion, Peja and Kidd were out of prime). so what do you need to win a chip? a top 5 player in the league, surrounded by atleast another allstar, and quality role players. do these players need to be SFs or PGs? the last great SF to lead a team to a championship before Bron and KD was Bird in 86. the last great PG to lead a team to a championship before Curry was Isiah Thomas in 1990. did you think in 2008 you cant build your team around a great SF? did you think in 2013 you cant win a chip with your team built around a PG?

anyway, to get back to what you said. Shaq and Duncan were both top5 players easily in their prime, so it was easy to build a team with them as the cornerstone. Cousins (still) isnt on that level. he wont win (most likely) your team a championship, not because best centers dont do that anymore, but because other teams have better players (Durant, Curry, Harden, Bron etc.). BUT, you have a young core of Ball-Ingram-Kuzma, you want to build around them and you have the chance to upgrade from Lopez to Cousins? yes, you absolutely do that

Awesome post I agree with your point on top 5 talent. Also the league goes through cycles where bigs are the best players and then perimeter players are the best. In a few years Porzings,Embiid could end up being top 5 players . This is why it's important just to build the best team possible with the best talent available and not try to copy another teams blueprints when it comes to winning such as the Warriors.
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GOODRICH25
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:11 pm    Post subject:

BizLA wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
BizLA wrote:
GOODRICH25 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Maybe a young Shaq who could move on defense but not a 28 yo Shaq. Duncan probably, he could shoot from outside the paint and was a much better defender than Shaq or Cousins. And was a better passer. He had great footwork as well. Cousins can move on defense but sometimes chooses not to. If he is our best player we won’t win titles.


the point was - its not best players at certain position that win you the league, its top5 talent. just look at like all the championships from 2000 till today. how many teams didnt have a top5 player in the league that won the title? maybe only Spurs in 2014 and Pistons in 2004, but they still had multiple near all star level performers. how many of these teams didnt have atleast another allstar on the team to support the top5 talent? again, only Spurs and Pistons, and Dallas too probably (Terry, Marion, Peja and Kidd were out of prime). so what do you need to win a chip? a top 5 player in the league, surrounded by atleast another allstar, and quality role players. do these players need to be SFs or PGs? the last great SF to lead a team to a championship before Bron and KD was Bird in 86. the last great PG to lead a team to a championship before Curry was Isiah Thomas in 1990. did you think in 2008 you cant build your team around a great SF? did you think in 2013 you cant win a chip with your team built around a PG?

anyway, to get back to what you said. Shaq and Duncan were both top5 players easily in their prime, so it was easy to build a team with them as the cornerstone. Cousins (still) isnt on that level. he wont win (most likely) your team a championship, not because best centers dont do that anymore, but because other teams have better players (Durant, Curry, Harden, Bron etc.). BUT, you have a young core of Ball-Ingram-Kuzma, you want to build around them and you have the chance to upgrade from Lopez to Cousins? yes, you absolutely do that


This is spot on. And DeMarcus Cousins is no push over he's arguably the best center in the league.. the guy averages 26 and 12 AND shoots the 3 better than anyone on our team.

Combine that with the continued rapid development of Ingram and Kuzma this team would be a contender in no time.


ageed. this core if it stays together can grow into something special. a opportunity presents itself to replace:

13.0 4.4 1.7 0.4 1.6 30%3pt with:
26.2 12.2 5.1 1.5 1.5 36%3pt

you do that. then, lets say we replace KCP with Bradley (on a 1 year deal preferably, try to bring Klay back home from Oakland in 2019), the young guys grow even more and you get much better in just one year.


Avery Bradley? He's a good player just not real fond of the thought of having a 6'2" guy at the 2 guard..but then again I guess it would only be for a year.

Klay would be a perfect fit on this team. Would he be willing to join? Tough to say. Either way I'm confident we will be able to acquire a big name either before the deadline or this offseason..and even if we don't we still have 3 young players who all appear to have future allstar careers and in a few yrs we could be the next Warriors powerhouse built thru the draft. Worst case scenario speaking.


Avery Bradley is the 1st name that popped to my head. hes a 3D guy, can play and defend the pointguard spot (would help Lonzo against speed demons like Westbrook or Wall). but i dont really follow many teams this season so i dont know who the options are, and how many there are that are better than KCP... i just want a one year rental and go after Klay the next summer. hes the perfect player to pair with this group. shoots 3s like a mad man, plays off ball and is a good defender. and by getting him, you also weaken the Warriors, so our chances of beating them increase
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