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AFireInside619
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:50 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
twisted wrote:
Truck Turner wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Sounds like Brand isn’t the only one owing Magic an apology in regards to Ben Simmons, right LG?


Not really, considering this wouldn't have been an issue to begin with if Magic hadn't brought it up in the first place.


exactly. I don't understand why he keeps doing this.


His ego won't let him be quiet.


You guys must be fun at parties.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:52 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
MJST wrote:
twisted wrote:
Truck Turner wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Sounds like Brand isn’t the only one owing Magic an apology in regards to Ben Simmons, right LG?


Not really, considering this wouldn't have been an issue to begin with if Magic hadn't brought it up in the first place.


exactly. I don't understand why he keeps doing this.


His ego won't let him be quiet.


You guys must be fun at parties.



Magic is also responsible for climate change.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
The Knicks traded Porzingis to create that 2nd max slot. It's a huge recruiting tool. Even if the 2nd player doesn't sign, you don't know how big of an impact it had to get the 1st FA to sign.


True, but if the success of your plan is dependent on getting the second free agent, this is cold comfort. That's the case here.

I've been a critic of the two max FA plan all along. I hope Magic pulls it off and proves me wrong. But it's just another quick fix strategy. The old regime tried this with Nash and Howard. We delayed the rebuild and pissed away draft picks hoping to milk one more title run out of Kobe. I was against it at the time, and in fact I was part of the minority of posters on this board who were critical of the Nash trade at the time. But I forgave the old regime for that, because rebuilding sucks.

But now comes Magic with another quick fix strategy. It's going to work . . . because he's Magic! And we're the Lakers! As much as this makes me roll my eyes, I have to pull for him to succeed because, if he fails, he takes all of us down with him.

Signing Lebron wasn't some great success. It was the minimum necessary to avert immediate disaster. Given that George flipped us off, if Lebron had not signed with us, Magic's grand scheme would already have crashed and burned. So Magic hopped into bed with Rich Paul, Lebron's guy. How is that working out?

So we have an aging Lebron, the remnants of the young core, and cap space. Magic gets one summer to turn that into a contender. I hope he pulls it off, but I won't deny that I'll be thinking "I told you so" if he flops again.

Back to your point: Having the second max slot may have played a role in getting Lebron to sign. I'm not sure how much of a factor it was, but let's assume that it had some effect. Without the second free agent signing, the Lebron signing did not accomplish much. If we had kept the entire young core (maybe trading some of them for value, not cap space), I would have expected us to make the playoffs this year. Magic needs to hit a home run with the second free agent signing -- Leonard or Durant -- or else this was all for nothing. Lebron did give us some buzz, I suppose, but we may be about to spend a couple years hosting the LFT.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:58 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
The Knicks traded Porzingis to create that 2nd max slot. It's a huge recruiting tool. Even if the 2nd player doesn't sign, you don't know how big of an impact it had to get the 1st FA to sign.


True, but if the success of your plan is dependent on getting the second free agent, this is cold comfort. That's the case here.

I've been a critic of the two max FA plan all along. I hope Magic pulls it off and proves me wrong. But it's just another quick fix strategy. The old regime tried this with Nash and Howard. We delayed the rebuild and pissed away draft picks hoping to milk one more title run out of Kobe. I was against it at the time, and in fact I was part of the minority of posters on this board who were critical of the Nash trade at the time. But I forgave the old regime for that, because rebuilding sucks.

But now comes Magic with another quick fix strategy. It's going to work . . . because he's Magic! And we're the Lakers! As much as this makes me roll my eyes, I have to pull for him to succeed because, if he fails, he takes all of us down with him.

Signing Lebron wasn't some great success. It was the minimum necessary to avert immediate disaster. Given that George flipped us off, if Lebron had not signed with us, Magic's grand scheme would already have crashed and burned. So Magic hopped into bed with Rich Paul, Lebron's guy. How is that working out?

So we have an aging Lebron, the remnants of the young core, and cap space. Magic gets one summer to turn that into a contender. I hope he pulls it off, but I won't deny that I'll be thinking "I told you so" if he flops again.

Back to your point: Having the second max slot may have played a role in getting Lebron to sign. I'm not sure how much of a factor it was, but let's assume that it had some effect. Without the second free agent signing, the Lebron signing did not accomplish much. If we had kept the entire young core (maybe trading some of them for value, not cap space), I would have expected us to make the playoffs this year. Magic needs to hit a home run with the second free agent signing -- Leonard or Durant -- or else this was all for nothing. Lebron did give us some buzz, I suppose, but we may be about to spend a couple years hosting the LFT.



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:04 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:


Really? Is this the first time someone has explained this to you? As the team sits with a .500 record, out of the playoffs, with the rest of the league laughing at us, as Lebron works on his TV and movie projects, has it truly never occurred to you that signing Lebron was not a great accomplishment?
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Stumpy25
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:12 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
The Knicks traded Porzingis to create that 2nd max slot. It's a huge recruiting tool. Even if the 2nd player doesn't sign, you don't know how big of an impact it had to get the 1st FA to sign.


True, but if the success of your plan is dependent on getting the second free agent, this is cold comfort. That's the case here.

I've been a critic of the two max FA plan all along. I hope Magic pulls it off and proves me wrong. But it's just another quick fix strategy. The old regime tried this with Nash and Howard. We delayed the rebuild and pissed away draft picks hoping to milk one more title run out of Kobe. I was against it at the time, and in fact I was part of the minority of posters on this board who were critical of the Nash trade at the time. But I forgave the old regime for that, because rebuilding sucks.

But now comes Magic with another quick fix strategy. It's going to work . . . because he's Magic! And we're the Lakers! As much as this makes me roll my eyes, I have to pull for him to succeed because, if he fails, he takes all of us down with him.

Signing Lebron wasn't some great success. It was the minimum necessary to avert immediate disaster. Given that George flipped us off, if Lebron had not signed with us, Magic's grand scheme would already have crashed and burned. So Magic hopped into bed with Rich Paul, Lebron's guy. How is that working out?

So we have an aging Lebron, the remnants of the young core, and cap space. Magic gets one summer to turn that into a contender. I hope he pulls it off, but I won't deny that I'll be thinking "I told you so" if he flops again.

Back to your point: Having the second max slot may have played a role in getting Lebron to sign. I'm not sure how much of a factor it was, but let's assume that it had some effect. Without the second free agent signing, the Lebron signing did not accomplish much. If we had kept the entire young core (maybe trading some of them for value, not cap space), I would have expected us to make the playoffs this year. Magic needs to hit a home run with the second free agent signing -- Leonard or Durant -- or else this was all for nothing. Lebron did give us some buzz, I suppose, but we may be about to spend a couple years hosting the LFT.



I'm going to give you the Ronald Reagan speech, would we be better with Mitch and Jimbo now? Answer simple NO. Our wheels were spinning for the last 6 years in hopeless negative vortex of no mission or vision. People don't want to give Magic the credit he deserves, his presence, charisma, basketball knowledge and his contacts around the LA area gave the Lakers something they were lacking since Dr. Buss died. Of course we know LeBron had his eyes set on LA but Magic simply facilitated his arrival, and put us on the map once again. Let me put it this way have a dice to roll which is better than having no dice at all.
The biggest problem the Lakers have is the NBA and the small market teams. Simply put the Lakers are on most GM's black list, they'd rather lose a little bit than make any deals with the Lakers.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject:

Stumpy25 wrote:
I'm going to give you the Ronald Reagan speech, would we be better with Mitch and Jimbo now?


I don't care. Magic sinks or swims on his own merits. I am over the old regime. If you think they were galactically incompetent, then they are not the standard by which anyone should be judged.
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kobe_4_mvp
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:19 am    Post subject:

twisted wrote:
Truck Turner wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Sounds like Brand isn’t the only one owing Magic an apology in regards to Ben Simmons, right LG?


Not really, considering this wouldn't have been an issue to begin with if Magic hadn't brought it up in the first place.


exactly. I don't understand why he keeps doing this.


the lawyer they hired to babysit him can’t control him. does anyone actually think pelinka was brought in because of the great relationships he has with GMs and owners hes been milking money from for the past two decades? or that like the players, the player agents are a brotherhood?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:30 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
The Knicks traded Porzingis to create that 2nd max slot. It's a huge recruiting tool. Even if the 2nd player doesn't sign, you don't know how big of an impact it had to get the 1st FA to sign.


True, but if the success of your plan is dependent on getting the second free agent, this is cold comfort. That's the case here.

I've been a critic of the two max FA plan all along. I hope Magic pulls it off and proves me wrong. But it's just another quick fix strategy. The old regime tried this with Nash and Howard. We delayed the rebuild and pissed away draft picks hoping to milk one more title run out of Kobe. I was against it at the time, and in fact I was part of the minority of posters on this board who were critical of the Nash trade at the time. But I forgave the old regime for that, because rebuilding sucks.

But now comes Magic with another quick fix strategy. It's going to work . . . because he's Magic! And we're the Lakers! As much as this makes me roll my eyes, I have to pull for him to succeed because, if he fails, he takes all of us down with him.

Signing Lebron wasn't some great success. It was the minimum necessary to avert immediate disaster. Given that George flipped us off, if Lebron had not signed with us, Magic's grand scheme would already have crashed and burned. So Magic hopped into bed with Rich Paul, Lebron's guy. How is that working out?

So we have an aging Lebron, the remnants of the young core, and cap space. Magic gets one summer to turn that into a contender. I hope he pulls it off, but I won't deny that I'll be thinking "I told you so" if he flops again.

Back to your point: Having the second max slot may have played a role in getting Lebron to sign. I'm not sure how much of a factor it was, but let's assume that it had some effect. Without the second free agent signing, the Lebron signing did not accomplish much. If we had kept the entire young core (maybe trading some of them for value, not cap space), I would have expected us to make the playoffs this year. Magic needs to hit a home run with the second free agent signing -- Leonard or Durant -- or else this was all for nothing. Lebron did give us some buzz, I suppose, but we may be about to spend a couple years hosting the LFT.


Yeah, you can label it the "quick fix" plan. I see it as this: you need a superstar to win in the NBA. There's no getting around that.

There's 3 ways to get a superstar: draft, trade, or free agency.

Your whole argument is that we should have stayed the course with the young core. That is also a risky proposition because players get paid. And if we don't have a superstar in that entire bunch, we're stuck in mediocrity for awhile.

Nance got paid.
Clarkson got paid.
Randle's going to get paid
DLo's going to get paid
Ingram's going to get paid
Kuzma's going to get paid
Ball's going to get paid

That's going to cap us out right there. We'd be stuck with that core with not one superstar in that entire bunch.

What are some teams who have stuck with their young core and are stuck in limbo?

Minnesota - Wiggins and Towns
Portland - McCollum and Lillard
Hornets - Kemba Walker
Wizards - Beal, Wall, and Porter
Utah Jazz - Gobert & Mitchell
Grizzlies - Conley and Gasol

So, you can say that sticking with the core can set you up for years and years of mediocrity.

People like to point out GS. But, that's like 1 of 10 young cores that actually develop into something special.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:31 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Stumpy25 wrote:
I'm going to give you the Ronald Reagan speech, would we be better with Mitch and Jimbo now?


I don't care. Magic sinks or swims on his own merits. I am over the old regime. If you think they were galactically incompetent, then they are not the standard by which anyone should be judged.


Lakers in February 2017:

- Chained to cap-killing contracts of Mozgov & Deng
- Owed a 2018 LOTTERY PICK to Phoenix
- Coming of the losingest 4-year stretch (by winning%) in franchise history

Lakers in February 2019

- Signed LBJ - yes, some of you hate LBJ, but he's LEBRON JAMES!
- Still has cap room to sign the most expensive FA on the market
- No bad contracts on the roster
- Prime Superstars want to play here.

I know the Randle-stans are hurt . . . but Randle went to a playoff team and made it worse.

I know the DLO-stans are hurt . . . DLO was the price for signing LBJ (with a side order of Kuzma)

I know the Mitch/Buss crowd is seeking vindication - get over it. The Sun is shining in Laker Land again.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:33 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Yeah, you can label it the "quick fix" plan. I see it as this: you need a superstar to win in the NBA. There's no getting around that.

There's 3 ways to get a superstar: draft, trade, or free agency.

Your whole argument is that we should have stayed the course with the young core. That is also a risky proposition because players get paid. And if we don't have a superstar in that entire bunch, we're stuck in mediocrity for awhile.

Nance got paid.
Clarkson got paid.
Randle's going to get paid
DLo's going to get paid
Ingram's going to get paid
Kuzma's going to get paid
Ball's going to get paid

That's going to cap us out right there. We'd be stuck with that core with not one superstar in that entire bunch.

What are some teams who have stuck with their young core and are stuck in limbo?

Minnesota - Wiggins and Towns
Portland - McCollum and Lillard
Hornets - Kemba Walker
Wizards - Beal, Wall, and Porter
Utah Jazz - Gobert & Mitchell
Grizzlies - Conley and Gasol

So, you can say that sticking with the core can set you up for years and years of mediocrity.

People like to point out GS. But, that's like 1 of 10 young cores that actually develop into something special.


PUT THIS POST IN THE LG HALL OF FAME!
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:50 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Stumpy25 wrote:
I'm going to give you the Ronald Reagan speech, would we be better with Mitch and Jimbo now?


I don't care. Magic sinks or swims on his own merits. I am over the old regime. If you think they were galactically incompetent, then they are not the standard by which anyone should be judged.


Lakers in February 2017:

- Chained to cap-killing contracts of Mozgov & Deng
- Owed a 2018 LOTTERY PICK to Phoenix
- Coming of the losingest 4-year stretch (by winning%) in franchise history

Lakers in February 2019

- Signed LBJ - yes, some of you hate LBJ, but he's LEBRON JAMES!
- Still has cap room to sign the most expensive FA on the market
- No bad contracts on the roster
- Prime Superstars want to play here.

I know the Randle-stans are hurt . . . but Randle went to a playoff team and made it worse.

I know the DLO-stans are hurt . . . DLO was the price for signing LBJ (with a side order of Kuzma)

I know the Mitch/Buss crowd is seeking vindication - get over it. The Sun is shining in Laker Land again.


Yes sir. Randle is so bad his team put him on the block in 40 odd games.

Zubac, the LG masiah was 3/1/1 with a net negative of 35 last night.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:52 am    Post subject:

I love Zu. But we’ve only 5 veterans (Rando, KCP, Stephenson, McGee and Chandler) alongside James for playoff run. We need more mature players and we really need shooters.

James and 3 promising young core (Ingram, Ball & Kuz) are keepers. Those 5 veterans who are tested and have built good chemistry with James and young core are keepers too.

That leave Beasley, Zu, Hart and 3 rookies. It really depends on how many veteran shooters we need and how many players we want to trade out.

Finally, we decided to trade rookie shooter Svi for veteran shooter Bullock. Then Zu and Beasley for a veteran shooting big in Muscala. We added 2 shooters. I think Zu was traded because his contract is going to be expired this summer and he is not on our long term plan (we may aim to add 1-2 veteran star players). Besides, we’ve already had McGee and Chandler at C.

Adding a veteran stretch 4 like Morris would make this team better (if they could sign Morris earlier, they may not will to trade Zu)

McGee, Chandler,
Kuzma, (Morris), Muscala
James, Stephenson
Ingram, KCP, Bullock
Ball, Rando

These 3 newly acquired/to be acquired veterans add depth and experience of our roster for playoff run. I love Zu but understand we need more veterans and shooters for playoff
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Stumpy25 wrote:
I'm going to give you the Ronald Reagan speech, would we be better with Mitch and Jimbo now?


I don't care. Magic sinks or swims on his own merits. I am over the old regime. If you think they were galactically incompetent, then they are not the standard by which anyone should be judged.


Lakers in February 2017:

- Chained to cap-killing contracts of Mozgov & Deng
- Owed a 2018 LOTTERY PICK to Phoenix
- Coming of the losingest 4-year stretch (by winning%) in franchise history

Lakers in February 2019

- Signed LBJ - yes, some of you hate LBJ, but he's LEBRON JAMES!
- Still has cap room to sign the most expensive FA on the market
- No bad contracts on the roster
- Prime Superstars want to play here.

I know the Randle-stans are hurt . . . but Randle went to a playoff team and made it worse.

I know the DLO-stans are hurt . . . DLO was the price for signing LBJ (with a side order of Kuzma)

I know the Mitch/Buss crowd is seeking vindication - get over it. The Sun is shining in Laker Land again.


Point 1. LBJ is great but he's old... he's finally starting to look a little human. Also, he's alienated his team by playing GM a little too hard, which negates a lot of his benefit.

Point 2. You keep saying this... but the current management's plan is to trade the assets they haven't squandered for AD. IF they've changed the plan to prioritize signing a non Klutch elite FA... yes, that is a good point... but you are possibly ignoring the fact there is little evidence to support this other than LBJ's picks for the all star game. The media doesn't have us as the favorites for any of the free agents. So cap space without a clear intent to use it on a free agent... means most likely it's only for AD.

Point 3. No bad contracts yet... but getting rid of one cost controlled contract for a rental... getting rid of a young center who might have signed for a decent price... about to get rid of four to five more cost controlled contracts and three of our picks for one person is about as poor contract management as one can imagine.

Point 4. Why did we offer 7 to 10 assets for AD... if prime superstars want to play here? Either they do want to play here... but we ignored them to prioritize Klutch client AD... or they do not want to play here, so we prioritized AD. What sane person, offers every cost controlled asset for one player... if a superstar wants to come here? That is a move you make if you have tunnel vision for one player... Or, because you are desperate because no one else wants to come.

Point 5. I wasn't a Randle stan... or even mild fan for that matter.

Point 6. I wasn't a DLO fan... I spoke against him even... but I can say he's doing well this year, and finally showed a leap in growth that took him to the next level. Clearing all these players was necessary for freeing up space for two agents... not for signing one... and trading the farm for the other.

Point 7. I've never spilled a tear for Mitch and Jim. I didn't hate them like so many here... but I figured it's a tough business and they deserved some crap for the Mozdeng fiasco. One thing I do know... is mediocre as they were the last few years... they'd never do anything as stupid as get rid of ultimately... BI/Kuz/Zo/Zu/Hart/Svi plus what will probably be multiple first round draft picks to get one player.
And we'll probably have to throw in Mo, now that we got rid of Svi and Zu.

Nope, if they don't correct their course now (and you're in denial if you don't think AD is their course)... this will be the "hold my beer" moment to end all "hold my beer" moments of sports management stupidity.

AD plus aging LBJ... plus 25 million of random players cannot defeat Philly, GSW, Toronto, Denver, OKC, Houston, Boston... etc.

Maybe if they were both 25... LBJ could pull them over four star teams... but at 34-35... I don't think he can do it

The only slight hope would be if a third agent would come for a discount.

But until I read some evidence of that happening... I'm assuming it's only AD and LBJ... And this isn't enough.

Maybe the core will never be enough either... I don't deny that... but at least we'll have more options in the future... And we'll still have our picks.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:32 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:


Point 1. LBJ is great but he's old...

Point 2. . . . but the current management's plan is to trade the assets they haven't squandered for AD.

Point 3. No bad contracts yet... but getting rid of one cost controlled contract for a rental... getting rid of a young center who might have signed for a decent price... about to get rid of four to five more cost controlled contracts and three of our picks for one person is about as poor contract management as one can imagine.

Point 4. Why did we offer 7 to 10 assets for AD...

Point 5. I wasn't a Randle stan... or even mild fan for that matter.

Point 6. I wasn't a DLO fan...

Point 7. I've never spilled a tear for Mitch and Jim.

AD plus aging LBJ... plus 25 million of random players cannot defeat Philly, GSW, Toronto, Denver, OKC, Houston, Boston... etc.

Maybe if they were both 25... LBJ could pull them over four star teams... but at 34-35... I don't think he can do it

Maybe the core will never be enough either... I don't deny that... but at least we'll have more options in the future... And we'll still have our picks.


Point 1 - Wilt was 35 when he led the 71-72 Lakers to the Championship, playing 42.3 minutes per game. KAJ won three rings and a Finals MVP after age 35. Yes, KAJ was no longer the Alpha, which leads to . . .

Point 2 - If LBJ is old, then bringing in 25 year old AD seems to be the PERFECT piece to bring in/have in place to become the Alpha. I realize YOU don't think AD is the guy - BUT DAMNED NEAR THE ENTIRE NBA WANTS TO KEEP HIM OFF OF THE LAKERS! One would think that they'd prefer to gut the Lakers of all of those pieces and cripple the team if AD wasn't that great.

Point 3 - You point here is nonsensical.

Point 4 - All of the assets are not equal to the return. If the Lakers had been offered a 25 year old Lebron for Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom, Jordan Farmar, Adam Morrison, four 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders - would the Lakers have won that trade? ABSOLUTELY in my mind. Yes they still had Kobe & Pau with LBJ - this Lakers team would have LBJ, AD & $27 million in capspace, leaving room to sign a very good player or use the space to trade for one.

Can AD plus LBJ and cap space build a team to challenge the top teams in the league? You don't think so . . . but apparently Greg Popavich, Danny Ainge and many others in the NBA think differently.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:


Point 1. LBJ is great but he's old...

Point 2. . . . but the current management's plan is to trade the assets they haven't squandered for AD.

Point 3. No bad contracts yet... but getting rid of one cost controlled contract for a rental... getting rid of a young center who might have signed for a decent price... about to get rid of four to five more cost controlled contracts and three of our picks for one person is about as poor contract management as one can imagine.

Point 4. Why did we offer 7 to 10 assets for AD...

Point 5. I wasn't a Randle stan... or even mild fan for that matter.

Point 6. I wasn't a DLO fan...

Point 7. I've never spilled a tear for Mitch and Jim.

AD plus aging LBJ... plus 25 million of random players cannot defeat Philly, GSW, Toronto, Denver, OKC, Houston, Boston... etc.

Maybe if they were both 25... LBJ could pull them over four star teams... but at 34-35... I don't think he can do it

Maybe the core will never be enough either... I don't deny that... but at least we'll have more options in the future... And we'll still have our picks.


Point 1 - Wilt was 35 when he led the 71-72 Lakers to the Championship, playing 42.3 minutes per game. KAJ won three rings and a Finals MVP after age 35. Yes, KAJ was no longer the Alpha, which leads to . . .

Point 2 - If LBJ is old, then bringing in 25 year old AD seems to be the PERFECT piece to bring in/have in place to become the Alpha. I realize YOU don't think AD is the guy - BUT DAMNED NEAR THE ENTIRE NBA WANTS TO KEEP HIM OFF OF THE LAKERS! One would think that they'd prefer to gut the Lakers of all of those pieces and cripple the team if AD wasn't that great.

Point 3 - You point here is nonsensical.

Point 4 - All of the assets are not equal to the return. If the Lakers had been offered a 25 year old Lebron for Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom, Jordan Farmar, Adam Morrison, four 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders - would the Lakers have won that trade? ABSOLUTELY in my mind. Yes they still had Kobe & Pau with LBJ - this Lakers team would have LBJ, AD & $27 million in capspace, leaving room to sign a very good player or use the space to trade for one.

Can AD plus LBJ and cap space build a team to challenge the top teams in the league? You don't think so . . . but apparently Greg Popavich, Danny Ainge and many others in the NBA think differently.


Wilt had two other hall of fame players the year we finally won (West and Goodrich) who were good for 25 each every night. At that stage he was mostly a rebounder and facilitator. Plus we had Hairston who was another quality rebounder... and a good young player in McMillian who put up 19 a game.

1. You are asking LBJ to do this with AD only... who is not as good as West/Goodrich/Hairston/McMillian combined.

Kareem had Magic/Worthy/Scott/Cooper along with many other quality reserves

Wasn't just Kareem and Magic.

2. I like AD as a free agent. I don't like him for what will be the equivalent of every cost controlled asset on our team plus picks. Have never said anything bad about the guy because he seems like a quality person. Only against his agency.

3. If you think my point that giving up 7 to 10 assets for one terrific player is not a good long term plan... I don't know what more can be said.

4. You could argue that if LBJ were in his prime like Kobe... and you didn't put pure garbage in the trade like Adam Morrison to make your point.

You know Josh Hart... Zubac... even Mo is better than Adam Morrison.

5. I think Ainge and Popovich are just trying to goad Magic into overspending. I know I would if I were them
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:05 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Your whole argument is that we should have stayed the course with the young core.


No, I never said that.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:06 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
I know the Randle-stans are hurt . . . but Randle went to a playoff team and made it worse.

I know the DLO-stans are hurt . . . DLO was the price for signing LBJ (with a side order of Kuzma)

I know the Mitch/Buss crowd is seeking vindication - get over it. The Sun is shining in Laker Land again.


Gotcha. You're a message board tough guy who wants to attack other posters. Knock yourself out.
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rami34
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:30 am    Post subject:

Lakers invest years in scouting right players, and spend a good 3-4 years developing them into NBA starter-caliber players, after which Magic & Pelinka dispose of these players for practically nothing. Guys like JR, Zu, Nance, JC, DLo, a freakin starting lineup for a lot of NBA teams, and a hell of a bench for us.

Pelinka is not a basketball man, he's made a career pushing financial deals, and along with Magic, are bringing philosophy that financial leverage is key to success in NBA. So dump years of investment in player acquisition/development for hard cash, then turn around and spend 27 million on players like Rondo, KCP, Lance, Beasley. What this FO is doing ought to sound a lot of alarms with fans and Laker ownership.
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where24happens
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:35 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
The Knicks traded Porzingis to create that 2nd max slot. It's a huge recruiting tool. Even if the 2nd player doesn't sign, you don't know how big of an impact it had to get the 1st FA to sign.


True, but if the success of your plan is dependent on getting the second free agent, this is cold comfort. That's the case here.

I've been a critic of the two max FA plan all along. I hope Magic pulls it off and proves me wrong. But it's just another quick fix strategy. The old regime tried this with Nash and Howard. We delayed the rebuild and pissed away draft picks hoping to milk one more title run out of Kobe. I was against it at the time, and in fact I was part of the minority of posters on this board who were critical of the Nash trade at the time. But I forgave the old regime for that, because rebuilding sucks.

But now comes Magic with another quick fix strategy. It's going to work . . . because he's Magic! And we're the Lakers! As much as this makes me roll my eyes, I have to pull for him to succeed because, if he fails, he takes all of us down with him.

Signing Lebron wasn't some great success. It was the minimum necessary to avert immediate disaster. Given that George flipped us off, if Lebron had not signed with us, Magic's grand scheme would already have crashed and burned. So Magic hopped into bed with Rich Paul, Lebron's guy. How is that working out?

So we have an aging Lebron, the remnants of the young core, and cap space. Magic gets one summer to turn that into a contender. I hope he pulls it off, but I won't deny that I'll be thinking "I told you so" if he flops again.

Back to your point: Having the second max slot may have played a role in getting Lebron to sign. I'm not sure how much of a factor it was, but let's assume that it had some effect. Without the second free agent signing, the Lebron signing did not accomplish much. If we had kept the entire young core (maybe trading some of them for value, not cap space), I would have expected us to make the playoffs this year. Magic needs to hit a home run with the second free agent signing -- Leonard or Durant -- or else this was all for nothing. Lebron did give us some buzz, I suppose, but we may be about to spend a couple years hosting the LFT.


The free agent plan was and is literally our only chance. Do you really think our core + DLo + Randle would've made the playoffs this year? That is an insane take. Our young core lost to the Knicks and Cavs this year, they are demonstrably one of the worst teams in the NBA without Lebron. Getting superstars is the only way. We don't have the homegrown talent to do a full rebuild organically, the young guys just aren't good enough.
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32
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:00 am    Post subject:

Quote:
NBA concluded that Magic Johnson didn’t tamper with 76ers Ben Simmons, LA Times report.

https://twitter.com/BA_Turner/status/1095395591289356289
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:09 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Your whole argument is that we should have stayed the course with the young core.


No, I never said that.


This is why it's so hard to have a conversation. Everything has to be an exact quote or the conversation goes no where.

I mean, you are against the max FA plan. Ok, seems like you'd rather have stayed the course?

Nope, you say that's not it either. Yeah, I have no idea then.

I mean, I can just quote word for word what you did say. It's hard to have a conversation though.

Quote:
True, but if the success of your plan is dependent on getting the second free agent, this is cold comfort. That's the case here.

I've been a critic of the two max FA plan all along. I hope Magic pulls it off and proves me wrong. But it's just another quick fix strategy. The old regime tried this with Nash and Howard. We delayed the rebuild and pissed away draft picks hoping to milk one more title run out of Kobe. I was against it at the time, and in fact I was part of the minority of posters on this board who were critical of the Nash trade at the time. But I forgave the old regime for that, because rebuilding sucks.

But now comes Magic with another quick fix strategy. It's going to work . . . because he's Magic! And we're the Lakers! As much as this makes me roll my eyes, I have to pull for him to succeed because, if he fails, he takes all of us down with him.

Signing Lebron wasn't some great success. It was the minimum necessary to avert immediate disaster. Given that George flipped us off, if Lebron had not signed with us, Magic's grand scheme would already have crashed and burned. So Magic hopped into bed with Rich Paul, Lebron's guy. How is that working out?

So we have an aging Lebron, the remnants of the young core, and cap space. Magic gets one summer to turn that into a contender. I hope he pulls it off, but I won't deny that I'll be thinking "I told you so" if he flops again.

Back to your point: Having the second max slot may have played a role in getting Lebron to sign. I'm not sure how much of a factor it was, but let's assume that it had some effect. Without the second free agent signing, the Lebron signing did not accomplish much. If we had kept the entire young core (maybe trading some of them for value, not cap space), I would have expected us to make the playoffs this year. Magic needs to hit a home run with the second free agent signing -- Leonard or Durant -- or else this was all for nothing. Lebron did give us some buzz, I suppose, but we may be about to spend a couple years hosting the LFT.
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Do it Mitch!
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Quote:
NBA concluded that Magic Johnson didn’t tamper with 76ers Ben Simmons, LA Times report.

https://twitter.com/BA_Turner/status/1095395591289356289


Ahh, so everyone was freaking out and dumping on Magic yesterday.. for no reason at all.

Awesome
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject:

Do it Mitch! wrote:
32 wrote:
Quote:
NBA concluded that Magic Johnson didn’t tamper with 76ers Ben Simmons, LA Times report.

https://twitter.com/BA_Turner/status/1095395591289356289


Ahh, so everyone was freaking out and dumping on Magic yesterday.. for no reason at all.

Awesome


Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:52 am    Post subject:

Stumpy25 wrote:

I'm going to give you the Ronald Reagan speech, would we be better with Mitch and Jimbo now? Answer simple NO.


Really? How so? What has Magic done better than Jim and Mitch would've done if they were still on board?

Magic screwed up the AD negotiations, and we've been blown out in 2 of the 3 games since all that trade talk started. Say what you want about Mitch and Jim, but nothing got leaked out like that when they were making trades.

Magic screwed up the Paul George negotiations as well as the Kawhi negotiations. The Russell trade to dump Mozgov has turned into a disaster. Magic and Pelinka screwed up free agency this past summer leading us to have to trade 2 of our young guys to make up for the fact that they thought not signing any shooters was an okay move.

I don't think Jim and Mitch were all that great, but if they were still in charge, we'd still have LeBron, and we'd probably have either PG, Kawhi, or AD; because they wouldn't have salary dumped D'Angelo Russell. The Nets managed to get rid of Mozgov without having to give up a # 2 pick in the draft.


Stumpy25 wrote:

The biggest problem the Lakers have is the NBA and the small market teams. Simply put the Lakers are on most GM's black list, they'd rather lose a little bit than make any deals with the Lakers.


Yeah, and if the Lakers are on a blacklist, it's because Magic is too damn loud and doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut. Even if general fanbases hated the Lakers, Jim and Mitch were still able to work with other teams to get major trades done.
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