Yes. If he was on say Detroit.
And there was some YouTube video out there calling him the Steph Curry stopper and we all get bamboozled into thinking he's some elite defender, we'd probably want him on our team for the room.
i dont think people actually watch this guy. he plays good d. he played better d than ANYONE on our team last year and he still gets blasted for it. unreasonable hate on this guy, he does everything well. he will be very good this year because the team will be good. nobody watches him trust me.. all people notice is when he misses 3 pointers. similar thing happened when we had nick young, JC, Lou...just hate for no reason, these are good players.
I've watched him and my impression is that he was bad but acceptable on D. I hated every time someone got past him and he would just stand around, no contest no second effort. On O he has good skills and range but horrible shot selection.
this is not really true, not sure where you are getting this. without knowing more...who do you see playing d that was doing that better on this team...or on another team? on an average normal play (dont nitpick the lowlights) he is playing beter d than anyone else and that includes lbj....maybe mcgee plays better d, but hes a different role.
Redundant and waste of roster space after the Green, Cook, Daniels signing.
At the price he's paid, yes bad use of money. But as a fit, I love KCP off the bench. Can hit 3's, FT's. high motor, pesky defender, can play 3 positions.
I actually think he's going to have a really good year for us.
Green/KCP/Bradley I love al 3 of those guards around LeBron/AD. Which is actually a lineup I want to see and think we will see a lot:
Redundant and waste of roster space after the Green, Cook, Daniels signing.
At the price he's paid, yes bad use of money. But as a fit, I love KCP off the bench. Can hit 3's, FT's. high motor, pesky defender, can play 3 positions.
I actually think he's going to have a really good year for us.
Green/KCP/Bradley I love al 3 of those guards around LeBron/AD. Which is actually a lineup I want to see and think we will see a lot:
AD
LeBron
Green
KCP
Bradley
Crazy defense
You can never have too many shooters on a LBJ team. That lineup looks deadly, I can also easily imagine some 4 guard lineups when the bench is against smaller teams and when load managing.
Plus even though he got a lot of hate here, I was always happy to see a guy hit 87% from the line
Redundant and waste of roster space after the Green, Cook, Daniels signing.
At the price he's paid, yes bad use of money. But as a fit, I love KCP off the bench. Can hit 3's, FT's. high motor, pesky defender, can play 3 positions.
I actually think he's going to have a really good year for us.
Green/KCP/Bradley I love al 3 of those guards around LeBron/AD. Which is actually a lineup I want to see and think we will see a lot:
AD
LeBron
Green
KCP
Bradley
Crazy defense
KCP and Bradley--crazy defense??? The DRPMs for both KCP and Bradley were horrible last year at -2.17 and -1.26, respectively. Just to see if last year was an aberration, I went back and looked at their scores in 14-15, 15-16, 16-17, and 17-18. For KCP, they were -0.37, 0.52, -1.31, and -0.32. For Bradley, they were 0.73, -1.24,-1.72, and -0.53. For both players, they have only had one good defensive season (as measured by having a positive DRPM) in the last five. Is there a reason that we are expecting them to do better? _________________ “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
Redundant and waste of roster space after the Green, Cook, Daniels signing.
At the price he's paid, yes bad use of money. But as a fit, I love KCP off the bench. Can hit 3's, FT's. high motor, pesky defender, can play 3 positions.
I actually think he's going to have a really good year for us.
Green/KCP/Bradley I love al 3 of those guards around LeBron/AD. Which is actually a lineup I want to see and think we will see a lot:
AD
LeBron
Green
KCP
Bradley
Crazy defense
I agree with you...I think KCP is going to have a solid year....and with Vogel’s defensive schemes I also believe your KCP, Green, Bradley line up could be tough.
Joined: 19 Nov 2007 Posts: 4375 Location: Lake Nacimiento
Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:26 pm Post subject:
Annihilator wrote:
2019 wrote:
LonzoLegend2 wrote:
Redundant and waste of roster space after the Green, Cook, Daniels signing.
At the price he's paid, yes bad use of money. But as a fit, I love KCP off the bench. Can hit 3's, FT's. high motor, pesky defender, can play 3 positions.
I actually think he's going to have a really good year for us.
Green/KCP/Bradley I love al 3 of those guards around LeBron/AD. Which is actually a lineup I want to see and think we will see a lot:
AD
LeBron
Green
KCP
Bradley
Crazy defense
KCP and Bradley--crazy defense??? The DRPMs for both KCP and Bradley were horrible last year at -2.17 and -1.26, respectively. Just to see if last year was an aberration, I went back and looked at their scores in 14-15, 15-16, 16-17, and 17-18. For KCP, they were -0.37, 0.52, -1.31, and -0.32. For Bradley, they were 0.73, -1.24,-1.72, and -0.53. For both players, they have only had one good defensive season (as measured by having a positive DRPM) in the last five. Is there a reason that we are expecting them to do better?
I think Bradley will absolutely do better if he stays healthy.. I have watched a lot of tape of him the last month or so and has all the tools and high iq to be a solid/great defender with a good team/system around him.
KCP i'm not sold on at all to be anything special defensively even though I do think he has the potential but the iq/awareness/willingness is simply not there since he's been a Lakers from what i've seen. I do believe (hope!) he is going to have a better season overall though.
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 5347 Location: United States
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:39 am Post subject:
Annihilator wrote:
2019 wrote:
LonzoLegend2 wrote:
Redundant and waste of roster space after the Green, Cook, Daniels signing.
At the price he's paid, yes bad use of money. But as a fit, I love KCP off the bench. Can hit 3's, FT's. high motor, pesky defender, can play 3 positions.
I actually think he's going to have a really good year for us.
Green/KCP/Bradley I love al 3 of those guards around LeBron/AD. Which is actually a lineup I want to see and think we will see a lot:
AD
LeBron
Green
KCP
Bradley
Crazy defense
KCP and Bradley--crazy defense??? The DRPMs for both KCP and Bradley were horrible last year at -2.17 and -1.26, respectively. Just to see if last year was an aberration, I went back and looked at their scores in 14-15, 15-16, 16-17, and 17-18. For KCP, they were -0.37, 0.52, -1.31, and -0.32. For Bradley, they were 0.73, -1.24,-1.72, and -0.53. For both players, they have only had one good defensive season (as measured by having a positive DRPM) in the last five. Is there a reason that we are expecting them to do better?
So even though Avery was injured/overweight last year, he had a DPRM somewhere between. Klay Thompon and Kawhi Leonard. Cousins had a DPRM somewhere between a Gobert and AD. Good thing we didn't get Kawhi because his DPRM was somewhere between a Harden and a Gallanari. Only won a championship despite that.
2018-19
DPRM stats
Cousins 3.57 - Best defender we got
AD 3.20
Danny Green 2.07
Muscla 1.83
Lebron 1.83
Hart 1.72
Kevin Love 1.49
Ball 1.29
Greg Monroe 1.21
Kostas 1.11
Mitchell Robinson 1.05
Bonga .92
Jemario Jones 0.72
Javale .16
Caruso .10
Andre Ingram .10
Harden .03
Kawhi .02
Gallanari 0.00
Below zero club
Montrez Harrel -.54
Brandom Ingram -.54
Kris Dunn -.47
Darren Collisin -.42
Trevor Ariza -1.25
Avery Bradely -1.26
Shamet -1.59
Klay -1.82
Lou Williams -3.54
Sexton -4.59
I probably should have just said I am a fan of that stat. _________________ SCHROEDER/CARUSO/COOK
MATTHEWS/KCP/THT
LEBRON/KUZMA/BABYGIANIS
AD/MORRIS/DUDLEY
GASOL/HARRELL/TINKLE
Coachs:Vogel/Kidd
So even though Avery was injured/overweight last year, he had a DPRM somewhere between. Klay Thompon and Kawhi Leonard. Cousins had a DPRM somewhere between a Gobert and AD. Good thing we didn't get Kawhi because his DPRM was somewhere between a Harden and a Gallanari. Only won a championship despite that.
You have changed the subject. We were talking just about defense and whether or not Bradley and KCP would result in "crazy defense"; we were not including what they bring offensively to the team. Yes, Kawli had a low DRPM but he complimented it with a high positive ORPM of 3.24. Including what a player brings to the floor on offense when we are discussing solely whether or not he is a good defensive player is a change in topic. We all know that a player can be one but not the other.
So, my question to you is the same that I ended my comment above: Why do you think that they will be better next year than they were last year? They were out of shape? Injured? Not motivated? What are the changes that will make them better? I want to hear them. I would also like to hear why you believe that DRPM doesn't actually measure what these players bring to the team defensively. Intelligent and well-thought out responses are always appreciated. _________________ “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35813 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:42 pm Post subject:
Annihilator wrote:
LVLAKERFAN wrote:
So even though Avery was injured/overweight last year, he had a DPRM somewhere between. Klay Thompon and Kawhi Leonard. Cousins had a DPRM somewhere between a Gobert and AD. Good thing we didn't get Kawhi because his DPRM was somewhere between a Harden and a Gallanari. Only won a championship despite that.
You have changed the subject. We were talking just about defense and whether or not Bradley and KCP would result in "crazy defense"; we were not including what they bring offensively to the team. Yes, Kawli had a low DRPM but he complimented it with a high positive ORPM of 3.24. Including what a player brings to the floor on offense when we are discussing solely whether or not he is a good defensive player is a change in topic. We all know that a player can be one but not the other.
So, my question to you is the same that I ended my comment above: Why do you think that they will be better next year than they were last year? They were out of shape? Injured? Not motivated? What are the changes that will make them better? I want to hear them. I would also like to hear why you believe that DRPM doesn't actually measure what these players bring to the team defensively. Intelligent and well-thought out responses are always appreciated.
Wait... So is Kawhi actually a poor defender now or is that just a flawed statistic? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
So even though Avery was injured/overweight last year, he had a DPRM somewhere between. Klay Thompon and Kawhi Leonard. Cousins had a DPRM somewhere between a Gobert and AD. Good thing we didn't get Kawhi because his DPRM was somewhere between a Harden and a Gallanari. Only won a championship despite that.
You have changed the subject. We were talking just about defense and whether or not Bradley and KCP would result in "crazy defense"; we were not including what they bring offensively to the team. Yes, Kawli had a low DRPM but he complimented it with a high positive ORPM of 3.24. Including what a player brings to the floor on offense when we are discussing solely whether or not he is a good defensive player is a change in topic. We all know that a player can be one but not the other.
So, my question to you is the same that I ended my comment above: Why do you think that they will be better next year than they were last year? They were out of shape? Injured? Not motivated? What are the changes that will make them better? I want to hear them. I would also like to hear why you believe that DRPM doesn't actually measure what these players bring to the team defensively. Intelligent and well-thought out responses are always appreciated.
Wait... So is Kawhi actually a poor defender now or is that just a flawed statistic?
even consensus from good fans and bloggers eyes - Kawhi was barely an above average defender in the regular season for Toronto. And he was a great defender in spots in the playoffs, great series vs Giannis, which deserves all the credit. But aside from that it was spotty and mostly not close to elite
So even though Avery was injured/overweight last year, he had a DPRM somewhere between. Klay Thompon and Kawhi Leonard. Cousins had a DPRM somewhere between a Gobert and AD. Good thing we didn't get Kawhi because his DPRM was somewhere between a Harden and a Gallanari. Only won a championship despite that.
You have changed the subject. We were talking just about defense and whether or not Bradley and KCP would result in "crazy defense"; we were not including what they bring offensively to the team. Yes, Kawli had a low DRPM but he complimented it with a high positive ORPM of 3.24. Including what a player brings to the floor on offense when we are discussing solely whether or not he is a good defensive player is a change in topic. We all know that a player can be one but not the other.
So, my question to you is the same that I ended my comment above: Why do you think that they will be better next year than they were last year? They were out of shape? Injured? Not motivated? What are the changes that will make them better? I want to hear them. I would also like to hear why you believe that DRPM doesn't actually measure what these players bring to the team defensively. Intelligent and well-thought out responses are always appreciated.
Wait... So is Kawhi actually a poor defender now or is that just a flawed statistic?
Yes. If he was on say Detroit.
And there was some YouTube video out there calling him the Steph Curry stopper and we all get bamboozled into thinking he's some elite defender, we'd probably want him on our team for the room.
i dont think people actually watch this guy. he plays good d. he played better d than ANYONE on our team last year and he still gets blasted for it. unreasonable hate on this guy, he does everything well. he will be very good this year because the team will be good. nobody watches him trust me.. all people notice is when he misses 3 pointers. similar thing happened when we had nick young, JC, Lou...just hate for no reason, these are good players.
I've watched him and my impression is that he was bad but acceptable on D. I hated every time someone got past him and he would just stand around, no contest no second effort. On O he has good skills and range but horrible shot selection.
Yeah, I agree on the defense part. Also, KCP has physical talent and some skills but his bball IQ is absolute garbage which makes him a liability during long stretches or during crunch time. If only we could transplant Dudleys brain into KCPs body
a player like KCP should be given a reduced role that requires less thinking. Just focus on defense and spot up shooting. If he can be a plus-defender and shoot 40% 3s thats all we need. _________________ (bleep) Kawhi
a player like KCP should be given a reduced role that requires less thinking. Just focus on defense and spot up shooting. If he can be a plus-defender and shoot 40% 3s thats all we need.
Luke was to bad of a coach who didn’t realize that KCP is better suited playing in a established role rather then using him as a scoring option,
I’m pretty sure Vogel knows how to use KCP better then Luke ever did.
a player like KCP should be given a reduced role that requires less thinking. Just focus on defense and spot up shooting. If he can be a plus-defender and shoot 40% 3s thats all we need.
That's exactly what KCP needs. If he can focus on that, he will have a much better career, and his team will be better because of it. Because we had such a young team, guys never knew their roles. Everyone was out there getting to do a little bit of everything. That's not really conducive to winning. _________________ "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up."-The Greatest
a player like KCP should be given a reduced role that requires less thinking. Just focus on defense and spot up shooting. If he can be a plus-defender and shoot 40% 3s thats all we need.
Luke was to bad of a coach who didn’t realize that KCP is better suited playing in a established role rather then using him as a scoring option,
I’m pretty sure Vogel knows how to use KCP better then Luke ever did.
Or is it that his two large contracts caused management to force Luke’s hand in regards to “role”?
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 5347 Location: United States
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:14 am Post subject:
Annihilator wrote:
LVLAKERFAN wrote:
So even though Avery was injured/overweight last year, he had a DPRM somewhere between. Klay Thompon and Kawhi Leonard. Cousins had a DPRM somewhere between a Gobert and AD. Good thing we didn't get Kawhi because his DPRM was somewhere between a Harden and a Gallanari. Only won a championship despite that.
You have changed the subject. We were talking just about defense and whether or not Bradley and KCP would result in "crazy defense"; we were not including what they bring offensively to the team. Yes, Kawli had a low DRPM but he complimented it with a high positive ORPM of 3.24. Including what a player brings to the floor on offense when we are discussing solely whether or not he is a good defensive player is a change in topic. We all know that a player can be one but not the other.
So, my question to you is the same that I ended my comment above: Why do you think that they will be better next year than they were last year? They were out of shape? Injured? Not motivated? What are the changes that will make them better? I want to hear them. I would also like to hear why you believe that DRPM doesn't actually measure what these players bring to the team defensively. Intelligent and well-thought out responses are always appreciated.
I am saying that DPRM isn't the greatest indicator of whether someone is a good defender or not. KCP and Avery Bradley are well known as great on ball defenders. Give them a defensive anchor of AD and a defensive oriented coach and you will see a difference. Being healthy will help too. I was just pointing out how that stat is stupid. Just look at how high Cousins DPRM is and how low Klay Thompson is on there. Klay player some great defense and Cousins not so much. Harden played zero defense and had a higher DPRM than probably the best wing defender the in the league.
The way a team plays also determines the DPRM. _________________ SCHROEDER/CARUSO/COOK
MATTHEWS/KCP/THT
LEBRON/KUZMA/BABYGIANIS
AD/MORRIS/DUDLEY
GASOL/HARRELL/TINKLE
Coachs:Vogel/Kidd
So even though Avery was injured/overweight last year, he had a DPRM somewhere between. Klay Thompon and Kawhi Leonard. Cousins had a DPRM somewhere between a Gobert and AD. Good thing we didn't get Kawhi because his DPRM was somewhere between a Harden and a Gallanari. Only won a championship despite that.
You have changed the subject. We were talking just about defense and whether or not Bradley and KCP would result in "crazy defense"; we were not including what they bring offensively to the team. Yes, Kawli had a low DRPM but he complimented it with a high positive ORPM of 3.24. Including what a player brings to the floor on offense when we are discussing solely whether or not he is a good defensive player is a change in topic. We all know that a player can be one but not the other.
So, my question to you is the same that I ended my comment above: Why do you think that they will be better next year than they were last year? They were out of shape? Injured? Not motivated? What are the changes that will make them better? I want to hear them. I would also like to hear why you believe that DRPM doesn't actually measure what these players bring to the team defensively. Intelligent and well-thought out responses are always appreciated.
Wait... So is Kawhi actually a poor defender now or is that just a flawed statistic?
Joined: 21 Mar 2004 Posts: 7846 Location: San Jose, CA
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:51 am Post subject:
Ever since 2016, KCP has always been in a "contract year" playing for his next contract (when players tend to put individual goals ahead of team goals).
Now that he isn't (although he does have a player option for 2020), maybe he won't call his own number quite as much and stick to playing within himself and to his strengths. One can hope.
So even though Avery was injured/overweight last year, he had a DPRM somewhere between. Klay Thompon and Kawhi Leonard. Cousins had a DPRM somewhere between a Gobert and AD. Good thing we didn't get Kawhi because his DPRM was somewhere between a Harden and a Gallanari. Only won a championship despite that.
You have changed the subject. We were talking just about defense and whether or not Bradley and KCP would result in "crazy defense"; we were not including what they bring offensively to the team. Yes, Kawli had a low DRPM but he complimented it with a high positive ORPM of 3.24. Including what a player brings to the floor on offense when we are discussing solely whether or not he is a good defensive player is a change in topic. We all know that a player can be one but not the other.
So, my question to you is the same that I ended my comment above: Why do you think that they will be better next year than they were last year? They were out of shape? Injured? Not motivated? What are the changes that will make them better? I want to hear them. I would also like to hear why you believe that DRPM doesn't actually measure what these players bring to the team defensively. Intelligent and well-thought out responses are always appreciated.
Wait... So is Kawhi actually a poor defender now or is that just a flawed statistic?
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:06 pm Post subject:
Wolverine wrote:
Ever since 2016, KCP has always been in a "contract year" playing for his next contract (when players tend to put individual goals ahead of team goals).
Now that he isn't (although he does have a player option for 2020), maybe he won't call his own number quite as much and stick to playing within himself and to his strengths. One can hope.
If his chucking starts to cost us wins, he'll see the bench real quick. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
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