OFFICIAL KYLE got traded for westbrook KUZMA THREAD
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2019
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:56 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Nice compliment from Dwight.

Quote:
"Kuz is very young, and all of us, we're experienced veterans, we're going to continue to teach him. He's doing an amazing job. I'm really proud of him."

- Dwight Howard on Kyle Kuzma’s commitment to defense via ESPN’s Dave McMenamin.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheLakersReview/status/1218818491500773377


D39 > D12
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:57 pm    Post subject:

2019 wrote:
32 wrote:
Nice compliment from Dwight.

Quote:
"Kuz is very young, and all of us, we're experienced veterans, we're going to continue to teach him. He's doing an amazing job. I'm really proud of him."

- Dwight Howard on Kyle Kuzma’s commitment to defense via ESPN’s Dave McMenamin.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheLakersReview/status/1218818491500773377


D39 > D12


True Dat
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:28 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
drae wrote:
To people who still think Kuzma can't defend, watch this clip of his second half on Westbrook

https://twitter.com/LakersOutsiders/status/1218968462229491713


Hands down the best on ball D Kuz has ever played in a Laker Uni...still too tall in his stance which limits his lateral mobility and causes him to reach in but that will get it done and something a player can bring literally every night.

Loved seeing his teammates fired up and acknowledging him for it. AB was fired up


He's getting better at it imo. I have zero doubt at this point that he can consistently be a par defender at the worse.


I still have very justifiable reservations about his BBIQ...dont think he studies as much as he wants the public to think he does and if is studying a lot then he's studying the wrong things.

My biggest gripes with this kid is his off ball awareness and positioning which can drive me to scream at my computer...and especially how easy it is to get him switched on to the player you want him on with a weak offball screen.

Watch the video from last night and look at how easy it was to get him into a switch onto Harden...that kind of ish just cant happen come playoff time...it compromises our entire defensive philosophy and strategy.

Yo Kuz!

STAY

ON

YOUR

MAN!

Rewatched his D last night...it was definitely his best in the NBA...and it was still meh...but his quote 'I know what I'm doing.' Was clueless level hilarious.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:46 pm    Post subject: Kuz vs Ingram development

Why is Ingram such a “Superstar” now?

Why is he such a great “three level scorer”, defender, on ball/ off ball defender etc?

Because he had “Pedigree”

Anointed one from Duke with KD height/wingspan/standing reach etc

#2 pick

You could argue 2018 and 2019

Walton gave Ingram “free reign” to do “everything”

Play 2 guard
Isolation in fourth quarter
Pick and rolls all the time
Plays running him off picks
Putting him in the post
Etc. etc.

Ingram probably lost 20 to 30 games by himself last two years just “learning”

But Walton game him Ultimate freedom to learn

Kuz has same potential and work ethic

Not the same pedigree

But he is tall too

Maybe isn’t quite as long or spidery as Ingram

But he has young fast legs

Can get off the floor

His handle not too bad either

Probably better than Kawhi’s handle 10 years ago

I am not saying we just give the ball to Kuzma and have him clear out isolation or run pick and roll 10 times a game


But his development currently stunted coming off bench and with second unit

If he starts as TWO or THREE guard it will rapidly be accelerated and we will be ready for Playoffs when we need him

If he gets into foul trouble or out of control just pull him and sub in Caruso or KCP

We know what we are getting with Bradley or Green

They aren’t going to regress by sitting on the bench

This is all about getting Kuz to that Pippen/ Odom/ Jayson Tatum level before the Playoffs
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Kuz vs Ingram development

cheesehead88 wrote:
Why is Ingram such a “Superstar” now?

Why is he such a great “three level scorer”, defender, on ball/ off ball defender etc?

Because he had “Pedigree”

Anointed one from Duke with KD height/wingspan/standing reach etc

#2 pick

You could argue 2018 and 2019

Walton gave Ingram “free reign” to do “everything”

Play 2 guard
Isolation in fourth quarter
Pick and rolls all the time
Plays running him off picks
Putting him in the post
Etc. etc.

Ingram probably lost 20 to 30 games by himself last two years just “learning”

But Walton game him Ultimate freedom to learn

Kuz has same potential and work ethic

Not the same pedigree

But he is tall too

Maybe isn’t quite as long or spidery as Ingram

But he has young fast legs

Can get off the floor

His handle not too bad either

Probably better than Kawhi’s handle 10 years ago

I am not saying we just give the ball to Kuzma and have him clear out isolation or run pick and roll 10 times a game


But his development currently stunted coming off bench and with second unit

If he starts as TWO or THREE guard it will rapidly be accelerated and we will be ready for Playoffs when we need him

If he gets into foul trouble or out of control just pull him and sub in Caruso or KCP

We know what we are getting with Bradley or Green

They aren’t going to regress by sitting on the bench

This is all about getting Kuz to that Pippen/ Odom/ Jayson Tatum level before the Playoffs


Not sure about all that
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:49 pm    Post subject:

Kuz doesn't have Ingram's handles.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:55 pm    Post subject:

BI >>> Kuz.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:04 pm    Post subject:

Yeah BI is a completely different beast, there's a reason he was the main part of the AD trade

Starting Kuz at the two I think would be a mistake, he's perfect as an athletic, slashing, spot up shooting four off the bench. Right now, he doesn't necessarily need to be much more for us, his impact is good as it stands. Hopefully he can develop a bit more consistency though
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:54 pm    Post subject:

NBAFAN24 wrote:
Kuzma is love. Kuzma is life. Kuzma is the greatest of all time


^ This

Props to Kuz for stepping up when we needed him, more games like this please.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:11 pm    Post subject:

alleyoop wrote:
Yeah BI is a completely different beast, there's a reason he was the main part of the AD trade

Starting Kuz at the two I think would be a mistake, he's perfect as an athletic, slashing, spot up shooting four off the bench. Right now, he doesn't necessarily need to be much more for us, his impact is good as it stands. Hopefully he can develop a bit more consistency though


Kuz does not have the foot speed to stay in front of NBA caliber SGs and probably never will. He'd get torched by any good SG on defense. On offense he'd struggle to get around them. He has decent handle but not nearly the level it would take to be able to play SG full time. He's good in the stretch 4 role or at the 3 but that's really his limit.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:12 pm    Post subject:

So proud of Kuz and happy for him that he's been playing so well. I hope he doesn't get traded.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:14 pm    Post subject:

Once you lock in Davis over the summer, you go ahead and start Kuz next year... assuming he’s still here.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:17 pm    Post subject:

Kobe_Is_King13 wrote:
alleyoop wrote:
Yeah BI is a completely different beast, there's a reason he was the main part of the AD trade

Starting Kuz at the two I think would be a mistake, he's perfect as an athletic, slashing, spot up shooting four off the bench. Right now, he doesn't necessarily need to be much more for us, his impact is good as it stands. Hopefully he can develop a bit more consistency though


Kuz does not have the foot speed to stay in front of NBA caliber SGs and probably never will. He'd get torched by any good SG on defense. On offense he'd struggle to get around them. He has decent handle but not nearly the level it would take to be able to play SG full time. He's good in the stretch 4 role or at the 3 but that's really his limit.


Guess you missed last night when they put him on Westbrook
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:23 pm    Post subject:

Doc JC wrote:
Kobe_Is_King13 wrote:
alleyoop wrote:
Yeah BI is a completely different beast, there's a reason he was the main part of the AD trade

Starting Kuz at the two I think would be a mistake, he's perfect as an athletic, slashing, spot up shooting four off the bench. Right now, he doesn't necessarily need to be much more for us, his impact is good as it stands. Hopefully he can develop a bit more consistency though


Kuz does not have the foot speed to stay in front of NBA caliber SGs and probably never will. He'd get torched by any good SG on defense. On offense he'd struggle to get around them. He has decent handle but not nearly the level it would take to be able to play SG full time. He's good in the stretch 4 role or at the 3 but that's really his limit.


Guess you missed last night when they put him on Westbrook


WB isn't a shifty ballhandler with dribble moves...he's great...but he's a 1 cut RB who can't pull-up.. and he got into bullying our guards last night, so he was on to that more so than playing super fast even. I rather have Kuz guard the predictable attacker rather than a great ballhandling guard with wiggle to make Kuz flip his hips, and can also pull-up on him.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:25 pm    Post subject:

BI is so much better than Kuz its a joke to compare them.

Now add that Ingram is 2 years younger.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:42 pm    Post subject:

He has the foot speed to guard the 2016-2017 Most Valuable Player
He has the foot speed to guard Kawhi Leonard
He has the foot speed to guard Luca Doncic

And he doesn’t have the foot speed to guard Khris Middleton with 40 year old knees and no lift?

Derek Fisher was a starting guard on an NBA champship team

Ingram isn’t the most explosive guy in the world either

He learned to use his length and to take sharp angles to stop Kyrie last year

Ingram will never beat Kyrie in a race

You have shot blockers

Not a big deal if you get beat as long as you hedge your guy in the right direction and provide good back pressure

Jason Kidd was better at this than anybody and he wasn’t especially fast during his championship year.

Look at all those Brandon Ingram turnovers on the pick and roll!!!

He didn’t have slick handles at all in 2018!!!

Walton let him learn

Kuzma can develop his handles

Kuzma’s handles right now are better than Khris Middleton!



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:50 am    Post subject:

NBAFAN24 wrote:
Kuzma is love. Kuzma is life. Kuzma is the greatest of all time

Kuzma is caterpillar. Kuzma is cocoon. Kuzma is butterfly high in the sky
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:29 am    Post subject:

Kuzma's skillset nor style of play is the same as Brandon Ingram's. It's comparing apples to oranges. Where Kuz can add to his arsenal and excel in, in my opinion is creating out of the post and reading the defense from there. I seen times when he has, and I'm like why don't he do that more often? He should try to master that, but a lot of good post players are dogs; Kobe, Jordan, KG, Randle, Shaq, Duncan, Melo, etc... I don't know if Kuz has that dog in him; where he is just backing his opponent down, hard and not caring how they feel about it.

To be honest, efficiency, defense, posting, etc.. takes a level of training, routing, as well as effort. Players say Kuz is a hard worker, but it's the work the players don't see that matters. When all the lights shut off, what is he doing? Sleeping? Playing games? Talking on the phone? Or thinking about the game. Thinking about how to improve. It takes a level of dedication to meet that next level. Since we were incorporating Brandon Ingram, players say he his a hard worker, but I remember a reporter asking what Brandon Ingram's does besides play basketball? he paused, thought for a moment and said "I'm probably sleep. I'm usually always playing basketball." I'm paraphrasing, but it was in the realms of that. He's dedicated to improving and we can see it in his game. He doesn't really be on social media. He doesn't really go out, he's a homebody. Basketball is his life. Even when you hear him speak, it is very focused, no non sense type of attitude, confident. Kuz, I see him doing different hair styles, coloring, being on social media, super fashionable, horse playing, when he does interviews it is different, etc... I see him as "I really love basketball, but I wanna do these other things too." So he indulges a lot of time in miscellaneous things outside of ball. That's not how you reach greatness or even really good. That's settling with who you are, and maybe you will improve, rather than forcing the improvement. Some players are naturally gifted and some players have to put in that extra work, overtime, to compete with the naturally gifted. Kuz has to put in that extra work, overtime.


Last edited by Outspoken on Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:43 am; edited 5 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:37 am    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Nice compliment from Dwight.

Quote:
"Kuz is very young, and all of us, we're experienced veterans, we're going to continue to teach him. He's doing an amazing job. I'm really proud of him."

- Dwight Howard on Kyle Kuzma’s commitment to defense via ESPN’s Dave McMenamin.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheLakersReview/status/1218818491500773377



Thanks for sharing!! DH has been the consummate teammate. His cheers for everyone (not fake) and is never sitting while on the bench. He was really the guy that got behind KCP and helped turn his season around. Maybe he can work his mojo with Kuz as well. After the big 2, KCP and DH have been our MVP's. GO LAKERS!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: Kuz vs Ingram development

cheesehead88 wrote:
Why is Ingram such a “Superstar” now?

Why is he such a great “three level scorer”, defender, on ball/ off ball defender etc?

Because he had “Pedigree”

Anointed one from Duke with KD height/wingspan/standing reach etc

#2 pick

You could argue 2018 and 2019

Walton gave Ingram “free reign” to do “everything”

Play 2 guard
Isolation in fourth quarter
Pick and rolls all the time
Plays running him off picks
Putting him in the post
Etc. etc.

Ingram probably lost 20 to 30 games by himself last two years just “learning”

But Walton game him Ultimate freedom to learn

Kuz has same potential and work ethic

Not the same pedigree

But he is tall too

Maybe isn’t quite as long or spidery as Ingram

But he has young fast legs

Can get off the floor

His handle not too bad either

Probably better than Kawhi’s handle 10 years ago

I am not saying we just give the ball to Kuzma and have him clear out isolation or run pick and roll 10 times a game


But his development currently stunted coming off bench and with second unit

If he starts as TWO or THREE guard it will rapidly be accelerated and we will be ready for Playoffs when we need him

If he gets into foul trouble or out of control just pull him and sub in Caruso or KCP

We know what we are getting with Bradley or Green

They aren’t going to regress by sitting on the bench

This is all about getting Kuz to that Pippen/ Odom/ Jayson Tatum level before the Playoffs


bruh why so many spaces
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:34 am    Post subject:

^^ Playing Kuzma at a 2 or 3 guard in certain situations work out well for us. I mean guarding Westbrook in the second half is not an easy assignment. Vogel probably takes what he learned about Kuzma and will try it again in another situation, maybe against another big strong PG, not necessarily a speed merchant PG, but you get the idea.

I figure most things we get with the bottom half of our salary roster:

7. McGee $4 million
8. Cousins $3.5
9. Cook $3
10. GOAT $2.75
11. Dudley $2.56
12. Howard $2.56
13. Rondo $2.56
14. Daniels $2.02
15. Kuzma $1.97

What they produce is just gravy most of the time. The guys making the big bucks, Lebron, AD, Green, KCP, Deng , and Bradley; they have the biggest responsibility, as they are the high wage earners.

15th highest paid player Kyle Kuzma is still developing, and despite his injuries and inconsistency, is probably one of the best roster players in the league, 15th on his team's salary structure.

Just my opinion.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:45 am    Post subject:

waterman40 wrote:
^^ Playing Kuzma at a 2 or 3 guard in certain situations work out well for us. I mean guarding Westbrook in the second half is not an easy assignment. Vogel probably takes what he learned about Kuzma and will try it again in another situation, maybe against another big strong PG, not necessarily a speed merchant PG, but you get the idea.

I figure most things we get with the bottom half of our salary roster:

7. McGee $4 million
8. Cousins $3.5
9. Cook $3
10. GOAT $2.75
11. Dudley $2.56
12. Howard $2.56
13. Rondo $2.56
14. Daniels $2.02
15. Kuzma $1.97

What they produce is just gravy most of the time. The guys making the big bucks, Lebron, AD, Green, KCP, Deng , and Bradley; they have the biggest responsibility, as they are the high wage earners.

15th highest paid player Kyle Kuzma is still developing, and despite his injuries and inconsistency, is probably one of the best roster players in the league, 15th on his team's salary structure.

Just my opinion.


When framed this way (based on how much they make), Danny Green isn't contributing nearly as much as he should and is clearly underperforming.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:56 am    Post subject:

Ingram is better than Kuz as a ballhandler and how he can launch over people and shoot. Defensively the talent is more for Ingram but neither is an elite defender right now. For sure Ingram has more potential and is a better player right now, being just 22 and when one looks at Ingram he has more wingspan and athletic gifts. He was drafted #2 for a reason, he is finally living up to it.

However age is one thing, NBA experience is another. That 4th year contract year is usually huge for most NBA talents coming out of the draft. Ingram is in that year, so was Russell when he had his big breakthrough. Kuz will be in that 4th year, next year. I anticipate he will not get an extension this summer. Then next year, I can see him have that big year. That is when we will see his peak as a player.

In the 6 games that AD or Lebron have missed (Lebron missed Denver and OKC game) Kuz has averaged close to 20 points a game in just 31 minutes a game. He has been the first option in only 1 of those games, the OKC game. The rest he has been the second option. If a wing player can put up 20 points as a 2nd option in 31 minutes next to Lebron or AD, that makes him a very good scorer in this league. Ingram would not be scoring 25 a game as the 2nd option in that scenario, and certainly not be scoring 25 as a third option.

As a scorer, Kuzma is pretty up there. He averaged 18 ppg last season in a 2nd option by committee role. This season when we have called on him to be a first or second option he has delivered big time so far. He is in his 3rd year in the NBA. His defense has improved. His corner 3 ball is pretty damn consistent. I am not a fan of Kuzma, I am a fan of the Lakers. If a trade is available that gives us a quality 3rd player around AD-Lebron, bye bye Kuz. I went from a Kuz doubter in the early part of the season, to a guy that believes in Kuz. I think Kobe sees it in Kuz too. This guy has something, you can not teach it. The moment you give him the ball and some touches, he scores in bunches. He does not give a (bleep), he just scores. I like that mentality he has. The buzzer beaters. There is a legit reason Kobe, the Lakers FO and staff are so high on him. It probably has to do with his no think just shoot mindset. He has that assassin mode in him, it just has to be brought out with the right role.

The biggest thing that works against Kuz is that AD is a 4 who plays some 5, and Lebron is a 3 defensively. So unless Kuzma can learn to defend 2s, the minutes will not be there for him to really fulfill his entire potential in the Lebron-AD era. What we will need to do is have AD slide over to 5 after starting at 4. Like Pau did for LO. I have not checked recently, but a few weeks ago Kuzma's rating next to AD-Lebron was the best on the team. There's a reason for that - AD-Kuz-Lebron-Green-KCP (Or Caruso). That kind of lineup gives people a lot of fits especially now that Kuzma is defending and hitting his corner 3s.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:38 am    Post subject:

L4L wrote:
Once you lock in Davis over the summer, you go ahead and start Kuz next year... assuming he’s still here.


Start him over Davis?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:49 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
L4L wrote:
Once you lock in Davis over the summer, you go ahead and start Kuz next year... assuming he’s still here.


Start him over Davis?


Yes. Kuzma is clearly a better player. Let’s cut all the (bleep), Kuzma is the best player on the team and should be the number one scoring option.
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