Think We Need a Rim Protecting Big? (LAL rank 23rd in Defending Points in Paint)
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Lonzo-Lite
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:41 pm    Post subject: Think We Need a Rim Protecting Big? (LAL rank 23rd in Defending Points in Paint)

Clippers in the 1st quarter alone made 13 shots, 9 of those shots was either a dunk or a layup:

# of Layups = 7

# of Dunks = 2

69% of their shots were at the rim.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:45 pm    Post subject:

Gasol/Morris/Trez gonna have to do next to AD, can judge after 15 games or so
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:46 pm    Post subject:

The way they got those shots, maybe the rim protector could have kept it an 18 point game instead of 20.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:54 pm    Post subject:

just play AD the 5
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:43 pm    Post subject:

If Marc is going to pick up 5 fouls with 7 mins left in the 3rd quarter, then yes.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:44 pm    Post subject:

hydrohead wrote:
just play AD the 5


Davis doesn’t want to play the 5.

Not sure the Lakers have anyone that wants to play the 5.

So yes, Lakers need a rim protector.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 2:38 am    Post subject:

our strength from last season became our main weakness + the energy and hustle from McGee and Dwight are gonna be missed big time during the regular season.

but.. just during the regular season that is. in the playoffs AD is gonna slide to the 5 and lebron to the 4 and we are set.

AD-Lebron-KCP-Caruso and Mister X depending on the matchups. Thats our death lineup
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:05 am    Post subject:

I guess Rob didn't think Howard was starter material because if he did, we would be looking at Howard in place of Gasol right now, which would have made us a near perfect team with no weaknesses anywhere. And Howard have like 10x the energy that Gasol brings.

As it stands right now, we're gonna have to play AD at the 5 and Harrell at the 4 but AD doesn't like playing center. He's most effective playing PF. I don't know where or how we're gonna get a rim protector at this point cuz bigs are rare.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:03 am    Post subject:

Dwight played 19 minutes a game last year. He also didn't hardly play in most of the playoffs other than against Denver. Javale only played 17 per game. Let's not overlook this when understanding their value. The team struggled with the Clippers for the same reason they struggled against Boston last year. Lack of athletic wings. KCP & Caruso are too small. LBJ is too old (to give defensive effort in game 1 of the year). Kuz is not athletic enough or good enough on defense. THT needs experience he may provide it with his wingspan and maybe McKinnie can help. It remains the Lakers key weakness. PG13 killed the Lakers in Q3 because the Lakers had no one to guard him.

Q1 was about rust honestly. Lakers were clanking shots off the rim and the Clippers were making them. Give them time to find their way.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:42 am    Post subject:

I'm mostly concerned about getting AD through the season healthy. Having him play more 5 during the regular season doesn't help that. That's why JAV/Dwight were so instrumental in helping AD through the season.

Marc will have better games but my concern remains about our lack of a backup center with size. Kieff/Trezz are awesome, but at the end of the day they are 6'7-6'8.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:46 am    Post subject:

The good news is that we can promise Dedmon more minutes now in light of whatever Gasol is doing out there. Seriously, I'd think about playing Gasol for 10-12 minutes A GAME.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:07 am    Post subject:

cthroatgtr wrote:
Dwight played 19 minutes a game last year. He also didn't hardly play in most of the playoffs other than against Denver. Javale only played 17 per game. Let's not overlook this when understanding their value. The team struggled with the Clippers for the same reason they struggled against Boston last year. Lack of athletic wings. KCP & Caruso are too small. LBJ is too old (to give defensive effort in game 1 of the year). Kuz is not athletic enough or good enough on defense. THT needs experience he may provide it with his wingspan and maybe McKinnie can help. It remains the Lakers key weakness. PG13 killed the Lakers in Q3 because the Lakers had no one to guard him.

Q1 was about rust honestly. Lakers were clanking shots off the rim and the Clippers were making them. Give them time to find their way.


“Rust” had little to do with it. The Lakers were outworked. Plain and simple.

I’ve seen multiple responses stating the clips “wanted it more” Why? How is that possible? That’s an attitude issue. Players either want to win or they don’t.

Game one was the clips choosing to set the tone with a win for this season while the Lakers were still celebrating their achievements from last season.

It is just one game but the issues at center are not going to change. Issues with being competitive on a nightly basis all season will continue. The team and Lakers stars were outplayed. It is a nice reminder that the games will be won by effort on the court. Will the Lakers match that every night? Or take it for granted?

The chemistry and defensive effort will still be determining factor in a highly competitive Western Conference. This roster has changed and will need to win in other areas then paint points and defensive presence. That is not this rosters strength. We can’t expect it to be.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:09 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
cthroatgtr wrote:
Dwight played 19 minutes a game last year. He also didn't hardly play in most of the playoffs other than against Denver. Javale only played 17 per game. Let's not overlook this when understanding their value. The team struggled with the Clippers for the same reason they struggled against Boston last year. Lack of athletic wings. KCP & Caruso are too small. LBJ is too old (to give defensive effort in game 1 of the year). Kuz is not athletic enough or good enough on defense. THT needs experience he may provide it with his wingspan and maybe McKinnie can help. It remains the Lakers key weakness. PG13 killed the Lakers in Q3 because the Lakers had no one to guard him.

Q1 was about rust honestly. Lakers were clanking shots off the rim and the Clippers were making them. Give them time to find their way.


“Rust” had little to do with it. The Lakers were outworked. Plain and simple.

I’ve seen multiple responses stating the clips “wanted it more” Why? How is that possible? That’s an attitude issue. Players either want to win or they don’t.

Game one was the clips choosing to set the tone with a win for this season while the Lakers were still celebrating their achievements from last season.

It is just one game but the issues at center are not going to change. Issues with being competitive on a nightly basis all season will continue. The team and Lakers stars were outplayed. It is a nice reminder that the games will be won by effort on the court. Will the Lakers match that every night? Or take it for granted?

The chemistry and defensive effort will still be determining factor in a highly competitive Western Conference. This roster has changed and will need to win in other areas then paint points and defensive presence. That is not this rosters strength. We can’t expect it to be.


I've been calling out the need for a backup 7 footer for a while.

But I would not make any drastic conclusions from this game. It was a ring ceremony night game which is the equivalent of pulling off an all nighter emotions-wise, then playing a game early the next morning. Clips were sitting in that locker room stewing and riling themselves up and they came out blazing (until the Lakers extinguished that 20+ point lead by halftime).

This will be a strange year. We have so many new pieces, short turnaround, etc. We will certainly be a "flip the switch" team. But structurally, we really need to get a bigger backup center. Zub had his way on us physically. What will guys like Embiid, Jokic, Nurkic, etc. do?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:17 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
cthroatgtr wrote:
Dwight played 19 minutes a game last year. He also didn't hardly play in most of the playoffs other than against Denver. Javale only played 17 per game. Let's not overlook this when understanding their value. The team struggled with the Clippers for the same reason they struggled against Boston last year. Lack of athletic wings. KCP & Caruso are too small. LBJ is too old (to give defensive effort in game 1 of the year). Kuz is not athletic enough or good enough on defense. THT needs experience he may provide it with his wingspan and maybe McKinnie can help. It remains the Lakers key weakness. PG13 killed the Lakers in Q3 because the Lakers had no one to guard him.

Q1 was about rust honestly. Lakers were clanking shots off the rim and the Clippers were making them. Give them time to find their way.


“Rust” had little to do with it. The Lakers were outworked. Plain and simple.

I’ve seen multiple responses stating the clips “wanted it more” Why? How is that possible? That’s an attitude issue. Players either want to win or they don’t.

Game one was the clips choosing to set the tone with a win for this season while the Lakers were still celebrating their achievements from last season.

It is just one game but the issues at center are not going to change. Issues with being competitive on a nightly basis all season will continue. The team and Lakers stars were outplayed. It is a nice reminder that the games will be won by effort on the court. Will the Lakers match that every night? Or take it for granted?

The chemistry and defensive effort will still be determining factor in a highly competitive Western Conference. This roster has changed and will need to win in other areas then paint points and defensive presence. That is not this rosters strength. We can’t expect it to be.


I've been calling out the need for a backup 7 footer for a while.

But I would not make any drastic conclusions from this game. It was a ring ceremony night game which is the equivalent of pulling off an all nighter emotions-wise, then playing a game early the next morning. Clips were sitting in that locker room stewing and riling themselves up and they came out blazing (until the Lakers extinguished that 20+ point lead by halftime).

This will be a strange year. We have so many new pieces, short turnaround, etc. We will certainly be a "flip the switch" team. But structurally, we really need to get a bigger backup center. Zub had his way on us physically. What will guys like Embiid, Jokic, Nurkic, etc. do?


I have also been advocating for that additional piece of the puzzle. I have found it interesting to see how resistant other posters have been to it. To each his own.

Lakers are going to damn good with this roster. Just a matter of working out the issues of roster chemistry and defense. They are going to be taking everyone’s best shot every night. Will they be able to match it with this team, this season?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:41 am    Post subject:

Howard played 19mpg, McGee 17mpg last year. That means we had 36 minutes per game of good to excellent rim protection that we're not going to get from an athletic 6'7" big.

If Gasol can't provide it we need to do something about that. Outscored both in the paint AND in transition. Ouch.

As for the comments on wing defense, I agree. We won the title by shutting teams down; in contrast, Kuzma just gave PG13 a nice personal redemption showcase game on the night the Lakers got their rings. That's why I consider him more of a trade asset in future years, unless he somehow develops footspeed and better bb instincts on defense.

THT has the wingspan to guard elite wings, and he's got athleticism, but we're asking for a LOT of development getting a near-rookie like him to become a defensive cornerstone at the wing that quickly. It wouldn't hurt to get him some reps and see how far he can take it.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:42 am    Post subject:

Don't press the panic button. Its only 1 game. Its understandable that we will come out of the gate slow. Lets see what happens and give it some time. I would almost guarantee that this is not our playoff roster. Rob will make the necessary changes if and when needed.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:47 am    Post subject:

I do trust Vogel and Rob's showed up for work pretty well these past couple years. I look forward to seeing how they round out this roster.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:53 am    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
Howard played 19mpg, McGee 17mpg last year. That means we had 36 minutes per game of good to excellent rim protection that we're not going to get from an athletic 6'7" big.

If Gasol can't provide it we need to do something about that. Outscored both in the paint AND in transition. Ouch.

As for the comments on wing defense, I agree. We won the title by shutting teams down; in contrast, Kuzma just gave PG13 a nice personal redemption showcase game on the night the Lakers got their rings. That's why I consider him more of a trade asset in future years, unless he somehow develops footspeed and better bb instincts on defense.

THT has the wingspan to guard elite wings, and he's got athleticism, but we're asking for a LOT of development getting a near-rookie like him to become a defensive cornerstone at the wing that quickly. It wouldn't hurt to get him some reps and see how far he can take it.


Why the "hot take " criticism of Kuzma? Nobody was stopping the clips last night. If they wanted to stop George why not put the $40M marquee team leader on him? Players either compete or they don't. Game one in the books.

Lakers as a team were getting outplayed. Schroder was getting taken to the post by Beverly. George and Leonard put on a show against whoever they were defended by. Lakers were outhustled to loose balls and rebounds all night.

Yet Kuzma is the problem? OK.

No panic button. Just game one in the books. Lakers need to play better and be more competitive. Maybe be the team that "wants it more". Plain and simple.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:56 am    Post subject:

I agree that a shot-blocking 7-footer would be really nice to have and I posted as such some weeks back that it looked to me that we had traded offense for defense with McGee/Howard for Gasol/Trezz. However, what I saw last night was way more than a lack of rim-protection; I saw overall bad team defense (a defense that even made Matthews look "bad") on top of rusty/awkward offense - an offense that was mostly predicated on individual brilliance rather than superior team execution. And I also saw the same issue as last year against this Clippers team - lack of length on perimeter defense, no change there.
There were an absurd number of bad or off passes, turnovers and late rotations leading to open/easy shots for the Clips. Against a Kwahi/PG/Beverly/Ibaka team - guys who are long, elite and very, very experienced defenders - this was a recipe for a beatdown. The end-score does not reflect the much larger gap between the teams at this point in time.
This team will take a while to gel because it needs to play VERY differently from last year, on both offense and defense. The defense obviously has to scheme for not having McGee/Howard protecting the rim, while the offense MUST execute WAY better than last year, both to fulfill the team's new design/potential, but also to reduce the margin of error on defense. Plus Lebron, Davis, Gasol and Matthews all need load management. Good thing is that defense is right up Vogel's alley, and the offensive weapons are both elite and diverse.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:01 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
Howard played 19mpg, McGee 17mpg last year. That means we had 36 minutes per game of good to excellent rim protection that we're not going to get from an athletic 6'7" big.

If Gasol can't provide it we need to do something about that. Outscored both in the paint AND in transition. Ouch.

As for the comments on wing defense, I agree. We won the title by shutting teams down; in contrast, Kuzma just gave PG13 a nice personal redemption showcase game on the night the Lakers got their rings. That's why I consider him more of a trade asset in future years, unless he somehow develops footspeed and better bb instincts on defense.

THT has the wingspan to guard elite wings, and he's got athleticism, but we're asking for a LOT of development getting a near-rookie like him to become a defensive cornerstone at the wing that quickly. It wouldn't hurt to get him some reps and see how far he can take it.


Why the "hot take " criticism of Kuzma? Nobody was stopping the clips last night. If they wanted to stop George why not put the $40M marquee team leader on him? Players either compete or they don't. Game one in the books.

Lakers as a team were getting outplayed. Schroder was getting taken to the post by Beverly. George and Leonard put on a show against whoever they were defended by. Lakers were outhustled to loose balls and rebounds all night.

Yet Kuzma is the problem? OK.

No panic button. Just game one in the books. Lakers need to play better and be more competitive. Maybe be the team that "wants it more". Plain and simple.


Oh crap. Was it Game 7 of the Finals? I must have slept on the regular season.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:06 am    Post subject:

BlueNGold wrote:
The good news is that we can promise Dedmon more minutes now in light of whatever Gasol is doing out there. Seriously, I'd think about playing Gasol for 10-12 minutes A GAME.


Last year I was against the Green signing.... this year it’s Gasol. Never, never should have allowed Dwight to leave. This will be the disaster signing of they year.....good thing it’s one year at the minimum....as he’s going retire after this year. Should retire now
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:22 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
Howard played 19mpg, McGee 17mpg last year. That means we had 36 minutes per game of good to excellent rim protection that we're not going to get from an athletic 6'7" big.

If Gasol can't provide it we need to do something about that. Outscored both in the paint AND in transition. Ouch.

As for the comments on wing defense, I agree. We won the title by shutting teams down; in contrast, Kuzma just gave PG13 a nice personal redemption showcase game on the night the Lakers got their rings. That's why I consider him more of a trade asset in future years, unless he somehow develops footspeed and better bb instincts on defense.

THT has the wingspan to guard elite wings, and he's got athleticism, but we're asking for a LOT of development getting a near-rookie like him to become a defensive cornerstone at the wing that quickly. It wouldn't hurt to get him some reps and see how far he can take it.


Why the "hot take " criticism of Kuzma? Nobody was stopping the clips last night. If they wanted to stop George why not put the $40M marquee team leader on him? Players either compete or they don't. Game one in the books.

Lakers as a team were getting outplayed. Schroder was getting taken to the post by Beverly. George and Leonard put on a show against whoever they were defended by. Lakers were outhustled to loose balls and rebounds all night.

Yet Kuzma is the problem? OK.

No panic button. Just game one in the books. Lakers need to play better and be more competitive. Maybe be the team that "wants it more". Plain and simple.


It's not panic, merely answering with my thoughts on where this team is on wing defense. I thought he was inconsistent last year. Last night's game was merely a repeat of down games I've seen from him last year, but without Green on the roster this time around. If Kuzma proves me wrong and shuts opponents down, and becomes a reliable part of our defense I'll be happy.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:25 am    Post subject:

Only way we can obtain a big is:

1. trade
2. waive Cook (doesn't seem like that's happening).

Not sure if stretching McKinnie gives us enough under the hard cap to sign a vet min.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:44 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm mostly concerned about getting AD through the season healthy. Having him play more 5 during the regular season doesn't help that. That's why JAV/Dwight were so instrumental in helping AD through the season.

Marc will have better games but my concern remains about our lack of a backup center with size. Kieff/Trezz are awesome, but at the end of the day they are 6'7-6'8.


Exactly. Also when AD sits, we will literally have no rim protector at all. It's gonna be a big burden on AD if we have to overuse him. Howard provided rim protection and energy off the bench. On offense, he's always a lob threat. If Gasol can't be effective, we would look very small against most teams and it might also lead to rebounding problems.

Howard didn't make a three last year so even if Gasol was like a 40% 3-pt shooter, it would be irrelevant since we don't need it. We have plenty of three point shooting. What we need is to prevent the other teams from scoring.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:49 am    Post subject:

Zero lob points and zero transition points from Gasol. I miss the days when Howard would just run the floor and get easy dunks because the other bigs couldn't keep up with him.
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