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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
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 Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Jordan-esque wrote: | | Lonzo-Lite wrote: | Don’t see why Larry Bird is so high up on these lists.
IMHO, Kobe has already surpassed Bird, not just in rings, but also stats and accomplishments. |
Same. Only thing Bird has over Kobe was ROY and 2 more MVPs, but Kobe has 2 more Rings and more accomplishments than Bird by a mile! From All-Star selections to All-NBA, All-Defensive, everything by a mile.
Kobe > Bird |
Bird was an amazing player. He was a guy who could put up 29-11-7 on 52%-43%-88% shooting. I'd say either Bird or Lebron were the best passers in NBA history who weren't point guards.
You can argue he was the most impactful player in NBA history. He joined a 29-win Celtics team, and with no significant changes except him, it instantly became a 61-win team. I don't believe any other team in NBA history has had such a jump in success with no changes other than one guy.
The only knock against Bird is his career was relatively short because of injuries and because he started in the league at age 23. He only had 9 fully healthy seasons before he hurt his back. In those 9 seasons, he won 3 MVP awards, 3 rings, and got to the finals twice more.
I think he's one of those guys who will be ranked higher by people who saw him play. Not sure if that is due to bias or greater insight into what he actually did on the court.
I can see the case for ranking Kobe over Bird, and the case for ranking Bird over Kobe. |
Dude!
Joining Bird as newcomers on the 1979-80 Celtics:
- Nate "Tiny" Archibald (Hall of Fame, 3 All Star seasons with Boston)
- "Pistol" Pete Maravich (Hall of Fame, scored 31 in division clinching game)
- M.L. Carr (All-D, Steals Champion)
Bird was a great, great player, but - like EVERY CELTIC EVER - he had plenty of help.
Red Auerbach was the GOAT GM. |
1. Archibald was on the team the previous year, when they were 29-53, so he wasn't a new addition.
2. Maravich only played 26 games. He joined the Celtics at the end of the season after the Jazz benched him for 20 games and then waived him. The Celtics winning percentage in the 26 games he played was about the same as the 56 games before he played, so it's hard to make a case he had much of an impact. He had a bad knee and retired after the season.
3. ML Carr was a solid sixth man. He made one all-defensive second team in his career.
Like I said, the Celtics went from 29 to 61 wins with no real significant additions except Bird. (If you want to call ML Carr a really significant addition, I'd consider that a stretch but I don't want to bother arguing it; but still you cannot find any comparable team improvement based on the addition of just one rookie).
Last edited by activeverb on Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cyberfreak444
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Joined: 28 Nov 2019
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Jordan-esque wrote: | | Quote: | Trump says he "felt badly for LeBron" that Finals ratings were down so much. He adds, "I didn't watch one shot. I get bored."
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| Quote: | The president's rally crowd in Pennsylvania is now chanting "LeBron James sucks." Trump responds, "What a crowd!"
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https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1323361527714467840?s=21
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This makes me root even more for LeBron. |
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Batguano
Star Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2015
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Find it pretty hilarious that the same people who use "LONGEVITY" as one of the main arguments for LeBron being GOAT or better than MJ then conveniently ignore the same argument when it comes to comparing Kobe with Bird/Magic... 
Bird won his first ring with a non-accoladed Cedric "Cornbread" Maxwell winning Finals MVP, because of Bird's shooting struggles. Now imagine what haters would say if Kobe or LeBron won one of their rings under similar circumstances... |
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drae
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 10364
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:54 am Post subject: |
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Congratulations King. Stay winning...
_________________
“You have to dance beautifully in the box that you are comfortable dancing in.” - Kobe Bryant |
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Black20Ice
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1291
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| Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Chris Bosh: LeBron James told me he was leaving Heat in text
| Quote: | Bosh revealed to ex-NBA players Stephen Jackson and Matt Barnes on their “All the Smoke” podcast that James relayed the earth-shattering news “through a text,” of all impersonal means.
“I thought he was BSing, and then about 10 minutes later it’s everywhere,” Bosh said, via TMZ Sports.
“At the time, I didn’t understand it.”
“At the time, in my mind, I was ready to put the team together because we had just lost,” Bosh added. “So we wanted to put something together so we could win. And it really didn’t go like that.” |
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/chris-bosh-lebron-james-told-me-he-was-leaving-heat-in-text/ar-BB1bd8JZ?li=BBnb7Kz |
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Tick
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Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | Find it pretty hilarious that the same people who use "LONGEVITY" as one of the main arguments for LeBron being GOAT or better than MJ then conveniently ignore the same argument when it comes to comparing Kobe with Bird/Magic...
Bird won his first ring with a non-accoladed Cedric "Cornbread" Maxwell winning Finals MVP, because of Bird's shooting struggles. Now imagine what haters would say if Kobe or LeBron won one of their rings under similar circumstances... |
I don't know who's putting Bird or Magic above Kobe. I would take Kobe over either of them for his overall game offense and defense. Bird, and especially Magic, weren't the greatest of defenders. Albeit Bird was very "sneaky" and had a keen sense of where the ball was going to be, thus the timely steals and lane grabs...so I rate Bird a better defender than Magic. Bird might have made a couple of All NBA Defensive 2nd Teams. But Kobe is a better defender than both of them. Fact check me please...but I believe Kobe has 9 First Team All Defensive Awards and 2-3 Second Team awards.
Unless you have the individual stats and records of a Wilt Chamberlain, you need to have played in more than 6 finals to be in consideration for the GOAT. I consider LeBron the GOAT or at least top 3. Wilt, Kareem, and LeBron. And, when all is said and done, I think LeBron ends up infront of the Captain and the Stilt. |
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oaktown_dimond
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Do we still run LBJ as a point forward... Or go full magic with him at the point? |
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Intlakeshow
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Where are all the Lebron/Klutch haters at? This thread almost disappeared from the first page lol. |
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32
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
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danzag
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Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | https://media.giphy.com/media/mpB75VlHUWWmIX3WbN/giphy.gif |
He (bleep) did it. |
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drae
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Joined: 13 Nov 2018
Posts: 13309
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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It's a terrible situation to be in for the Lakers, that almost nobody wants to play with Lebron  (that narrative disappeared quickly) |
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Maginka
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I think LeBron with legacy in mind, will work with AD, Klutch, and Pelinka financially to complete a 4-Peat which will give him (7) titles total to put an exclamation point on his career......I know he said he wasn't taking paycuts anymore but cutting a few million from his Laker's salary, to bring in additional talent......maybe Giannis/maybe Beal....AD seems to be of the same mindset....championships over $$$....i mean they're still getting aid very handsomely.....this should be fun for us fans and stans tho.......... |
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poppies
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| Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Maginka wrote: | | I think LeBron with legacy in mind, will work with AD, Klutch, and Pelinka financially to complete a 4-Peat which will give him (7) titles total to put an exclamation point on his career......I know he said he wasn't taking paycuts anymore but cutting a few million from his Laker's salary, to bring in additional talent......maybe Giannis/maybe Beal....AD seems to be of the same mindset....championships over $$$....i mean they're still getting aid very handsomely.....this should be fun for us fans and stans tho.......... |
A 4-peat?! Haha, love the optimism. I mean, it's not an impossibly long shot for the Lakers to do it, but man, that'd be quite an achievement. I personally feel like LBJ has all the accomplishments he really needs at this point, anything else is icing. |
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PenG_
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Joined: 01 Feb 2020
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:45 am Post subject: |
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This offseason is the perfect illustration of what it's like to play for a big market team, as opposed to..... Cleveland.
Lebron on big market contending teams (4 years in Miami and now two years in LA (counting this next season)
Favored to win the Finals in 4 of 6 seasons.
Lebron on contending Cavs teams:
Favored to win the championship in 1 of 7 seasons (they were favored in 2009)
It never had anything to do with "who wants to play with Lebron", but everything to do with injuries, attracting talent to Cleveland, and facing the dynasty Warriors. The twilight of Lebron's career couldn't have had a better ending. Much deserved |
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SPO200
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Posts: 1225
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| Maginka wrote: | | I think LeBron with legacy in mind, will work with AD, Klutch, and Pelinka financially to complete a 4-Peat which will give him (7) titles total to put an exclamation point on his career......I know he said he wasn't taking paycuts anymore but cutting a few million from his Laker's salary, to bring in additional talent......maybe Giannis/maybe Beal....AD seems to be of the same mindset....championships over $$$....i mean they're still getting aid very handsomely.....this should be fun for us fans and stans tho.......... |
The only team that has been able to do a 4-Peat are the Celtics from the 60s.
And 3-peats only those Celtics, the Lakers of Kobe and Shaq, the Bulls and the Minneapolis Lakers. |
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drae
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lakersfever714
Star Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 6459
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Intlakeshow wrote: | | Where are all the Lebron/Klutch haters at? This thread almost disappeared from the first page lol. |
They can't hate on Lebron when he's not playing or can they? There were a lot of doubters and haters when we signed Lebron and Dwight. They all seem to have disappeared after the Lakers won the championship. I'm sure they'll come crawling back as soon as Lebron gets his first bad game.
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KingKobe20
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Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 13065
Location: L.A County, 26 miles away from Staples Center
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Yup an already doing pro drills with his Pops.
I wasn’t expecting him to reach Lebron’s height at 6’8 since Savanah (Bron’s Wife) is only like 5’8. I thought Bronny was gonna be like around 6’3 an maybe mirror a Westbrook/John Wall type game.
He’s looks like he’s already 6’4/6’5 and still growing at only 16.  |
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miggz23
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slavavov
Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 5611
Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| poppies wrote: | | Maginka wrote: | | I think LeBron with legacy in mind, will work with AD, Klutch, and Pelinka financially to complete a 4-Peat which will give him (7) titles total to put an exclamation point on his career......I know he said he wasn't taking paycuts anymore but cutting a few million from his Laker's salary, to bring in additional talent......maybe Giannis/maybe Beal....AD seems to be of the same mindset....championships over $$$....i mean they're still getting aid very handsomely.....this should be fun for us fans and stans tho.......... |
A 4-peat?! Haha, love the optimism. I mean, it's not an impossibly long shot for the Lakers to do it, but man, that'd be quite an achievement. I personally feel like LBJ has all the accomplishments he really needs at this point, anything else is icing. |
If LeBron wants to end up as the GOAT, he needs more accomplishments. His only real shot as this point is to complete that 4-peat. A 3-peat would maybe or probably put him unquestionably past Kobe, but not Jordan.
I'm really disappointed in LeBron's 4-6 Finals record. This past season really enhanced his legacy because he had, by far, his toughest road to the Finals ever, but he still has a long way to go to become the GOAT.
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The Lakers and Dodgers are the reigning world champs.
As the Dead Kennedys once said, California Uber Alles. |
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Bodhi
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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I remember during the 2016 finals when it seemed impossible for the Cavs to win, how all these people were saying that if LBJ actually wins this series then he can really be the GOAT. Then when LeBron did win the title in spectacular fashion, very few of those guys actually crowned him as the greatest ever. They just moved the goalposts and said he'll have to beat KD's Warriors to really be the greatest ever.
LeBron is clearly the best player to ever pick up a basketball. I don't know if that makes him the greatest player ever, but I'm sure that most people who don't already have LeBron as the greatest player will never acknowledge him as the GOAT. They'll just set criteria they think are impossible for LeBron to match, and if he does somehow meet those criteria then they'll keep moving the goalposts
Even if LeBron does 4peat for the Lakers, the same people saying he's still not the GOAT will just move the goal posts again. They'll say something like he needs to win 12 rings to make up for his 6 losses in the finals or his legacy isn't as good as Jordan's 6-0 in the finals
Last edited by Bodhi on Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BruceLee-Bron23
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Joined: 10 Jul 2019
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: | | poppies wrote: | | Maginka wrote: | | I think LeBron with legacy in mind, will work with AD, Klutch, and Pelinka financially to complete a 4-Peat which will give him (7) titles total to put an exclamation point on his career......I know he said he wasn't taking paycuts anymore but cutting a few million from his Laker's salary, to bring in additional talent......maybe Giannis/maybe Beal....AD seems to be of the same mindset....championships over $$$....i mean they're still getting aid very handsomely.....this should be fun for us fans and stans tho.......... |
A 4-peat?! Haha, love the optimism. I mean, it's not an impossibly long shot for the Lakers to do it, but man, that'd be quite an achievement. I personally feel like LBJ has all the accomplishments he really needs at this point, anything else is icing. |
If LeBron wants to end up as the GOAT, he needs more accomplishments. His only real shot as this point is to complete that 4-peat. A 3-peat would maybe or probably put him unquestionably past Kobe, but not Jordan.
I'm really disappointed in LeBron's 4-6 Finals record. This past season really enhanced his legacy because he had, by far, his toughest road to the Finals ever, but he still has a long way to go to become the GOAT. |
By he needs more accomplishments you mean rings based on what you said BUT Lebron’s ALREADY an ALL around better player than Jordan. Everyone thinks only rings make a player great but with the right team anyone can get a ring these days even if they suck. When everything is said and done (even if the King never gets another ring) we all know LEBRON JAMES is THE GOAT. |
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BruceLee-Bron23
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Joined: 10 Jul 2019
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Bodhi wrote: | I remember during the 2016 finals when it seemed impossible for the Cavs to win, how all these people were saying that if LBJ actually wins this series then he can really be the GOAT. Then when LeBron did win the title in spectacular fashion, very few of those guys actually crowned him as the greatest ever. They just moved the goalposts and said he'll have to beat KD's Warriors to really be the greatest ever.
LeBron is clearly the best player to ever pick up a basketball. I don't know if that makes him the greatest player ever, but I'm sure that most people who don't already have LeBron as the greatest player will never acknowledge him as the GOAT. They'll just set criteria they think are impossible for LeBron to match, and if he does mat keep moving the goalposts
Even if LeBron does 4peat for the Lakers, the same people saying he's still not the GOAT will just move the goal posts again. They'll say something like he needs to win 12 rings to make up for his 6 losses in the finals or his legacy isn't as good as Jordan's 6-0 in the finals |
EXACTLY....No matter how many rings haters still gonna be haters. |
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roger_federer
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Joined: 01 Mar 2020
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: | | poppies wrote: | | Maginka wrote: | | I think LeBron with legacy in mind, will work with AD, Klutch, and Pelinka financially to complete a 4-Peat which will give him (7) titles total to put an exclamation point on his career......I know he said he wasn't taking paycuts anymore but cutting a few million from his Laker's salary, to bring in additional talent......maybe Giannis/maybe Beal....AD seems to be of the same mindset....championships over $$$....i mean they're still getting aid very handsomely.....this should be fun for us fans and stans tho.......... |
A 4-peat?! Haha, love the optimism. I mean, it's not an impossibly long shot for the Lakers to do it, but man, that'd be quite an achievement. I personally feel like LBJ has all the accomplishments he really needs at this point, anything else is icing. |
If LeBron wants to end up as the GOAT, he needs more accomplishments. His only real shot as this point is to complete that 4-peat. A 3-peat would maybe or probably put him unquestionably past Kobe, but not Jordan.
I'm really disappointed in LeBron's 4-6 Finals record. This past season really enhanced his legacy because he had, by far, his toughest road to the Finals ever, but he still has a long way to go to become the GOAT. |
he need a 3 peat to get past Kobe? |
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