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SGV-Laker fan
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:02 am    Post subject:

LeBron's jumpshot has left him. he was never a good jump shooter, but was able to keep defenders honest during his Cavs Heat days, but now the guy all of sudden forgot how to shoot. most of his points are from layups/dunks nowadays. this trend will not make him age well.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:41 am    Post subject:

SGV-Laker fan wrote:
LeBron's jumpshot has left him. he was never a good jump shooter, but was able to keep defenders honest during his Cavs Heat days, but now the guy all of sudden forgot how to shoot. most of his points are from layups/dunks nowadays. this trend will not make him age well.


You're right that it's down, but not precipitously. He was crazy efficient in his Miami days.

Lebron FG% (career vs 2019-20) from:
2pt - (.548 / .553)
0-3ft - (.733 / .711)
3-10ft - (.417 / .394)
10-16ft - (.368 / .338)
16-3pt - (.386 / .373)
3Pt - (.344 / .350)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:54 am    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
LeBron's jumpshot has left him. he was never a good jump shooter, but was able to keep defenders honest during his Cavs Heat days, but now the guy all of sudden forgot how to shoot. most of his points are from layups/dunks nowadays. this trend will not make him age well.


You're right that it's down, but not precipitously. He was crazy efficient in his Miami days.

Lebron FG% (career vs 2019-20) from:
2pt - (.548 / .553)
0-3ft - (.733 / .711)
3-10ft - (.417 / .394)
10-16ft - (.368 / .338)
16-3pt - (.386 / .373)
3Pt - (.344 / .350)


Also, most of LBJs points have always come from layups/dunks. But he's actually getting a fewer percentage of those now. Getting to the line less than he ever has in his entire career, and shooting a career high percentage of his shots from 3pt range.

Kind of exactly what we saw from Kobe in the later part of his career too.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:26 am    Post subject:

Quote:
LeBron NETrtg by halves against the Clippers (2 games)

1st half: +19.7 NETrtg
2nd half: -26.7 NETrtg


https://twitter.com/justrycole/status/1227643044616237057?s=21

Interesting stat. It demonstrates the strategy to wear him out with multiple defenders over 4 quarters.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:28 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
LeBron's jumpshot has left him. he was never a good jump shooter, but was able to keep defenders honest during his Cavs Heat days, but now the guy all of sudden forgot how to shoot. most of his points are from layups/dunks nowadays. this trend will not make him age well.


You're right that it's down, but not precipitously. He was crazy efficient in his Miami days.

Lebron FG% (career vs 2019-20) from:
2pt - (.548 / .553)
0-3ft - (.733 / .711)
3-10ft - (.417 / .394)
10-16ft - (.368 / .338)
16-3pt - (.386 / .373)
3Pt - (.344 / .350)


Also, most of LBJs points have always come from layups/dunks. But he's actually getting a fewer percentage of those now. Getting to the line less than he ever has in his entire career, and shooting a career high percentage of his shots from 3pt range.

Kind of exactly what we saw from Kobe in the later part of his career too.


Yes, a sign of aging.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:33 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
LeBron NETrtg by halves against the Clippers (2 games)

1st half: +19.7 NETrtg
2nd half: -26.7 NETrtg


https://twitter.com/justrycole/status/1227643044616237057?s=21

Interesting stat. It demonstrates the strategy to wear him out with multiple defenders over 4 quarters.

It also shows that Lebron needs to be more aggressive early on. In both games he did not really try to score until later in the game.

Thing with being a great championship level PG, and Lebron has the talent to be that. You have to know when to be looking for teammates as a set up guy, but also when to look for your own shot (and how). Too many times this season Lebron has not looked enough for his own shot early on in the game, only to be ice cold late in the game or simply unable to put his fingerprints on the game.

It is a very very tough role to win a championship in, to be both the teams primary PG and also the primary scorer down the stretch. I think AD is as good as 1st option he can find in the league early on in a game, but you have to have your guards close out the game. The ball will run through them, not AD or the bigs.

This is where Lebron can still get to another level as a player. He has thus far been a bit shy of what he can be at his best in these sort of games.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:42 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
LeBron NETrtg by halves against the Clippers (2 games)

1st half: +19.7 NETrtg
2nd half: -26.7 NETrtg


https://twitter.com/justrycole/status/1227643044616237057?s=21

Interesting stat. It demonstrates the strategy to wear him out with multiple defenders over 4 quarters.


That's why it's perfect to load manage a player like Lebron. Play less minutes in the regular season, rest against mediocre opponents to be more rested against tougher opponents. But Lebron being Lebron he wanted to play as much as possible even wanting to play for Team USA. He's a smart guy but sometimes he just isn't very smart. He should learn from Doc and Kawhi. Don't waste energy on useless regular season games. Nobody cares if you've won 72 games in the regular season.

Homecourt advantage is only an advantage if there was a game 7. Even then, historically there's not really a homecourt advantage in a game 7. I'd rather be an 8th seed and have a rested Lebron who couldn't be worn down by opposing team as easily. Give Kuzma more playing time to develop him. Than to be a top seed who couldn't beat any of the top teams.
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Last edited by lakersfever714 on Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:44 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
LeBron NETrtg by halves against the Clippers (2 games)

1st half: +19.7 NETrtg
2nd half: -26.7 NETrtg


https://twitter.com/justrycole/status/1227643044616237057?s=21

Interesting stat. It demonstrates the strategy to wear him out with multiple defenders over 4 quarters.


That's why it's perfect to load manage a player like Lebron. Play less minutes in the regular season, rest against mediocre opponents to be more rested against tougher opponents. But Lebron being Lebron he wanted to play as much as possible even wanting to play for Team USA. He's a smart guy but sometimes he just isn't very smart. He should learn from Doc and Kawhi. Don't waste energy on useless regular season games. Nobody cares if you've won 72 games in the regular season.


Only problem is you actually have to win regular season games to make the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:51 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
LeBron NETrtg by halves against the Clippers (2 games)

1st half: +19.7 NETrtg
2nd half: -26.7 NETrtg


https://twitter.com/justrycole/status/1227643044616237057?s=21

Interesting stat. It demonstrates the strategy to wear him out with multiple defenders over 4 quarters.


That's why it's perfect to load manage a player like Lebron. Play less minutes in the regular season, rest against mediocre opponents to be more rested against tougher opponents. But Lebron being Lebron he wanted to play as much as possible even wanting to play for Team USA. He's a smart guy but sometimes he just isn't very smart. He should learn from Doc and Kawhi. Don't waste energy on useless regular season games. Nobody cares if you've won 72 games in the regular season.


Only problem is you actually have to win regular season games to make the playoffs.


This season I think we've won enough games to qualify for the playoffs. Even if Lebron didn't play the rest of this season, I'm sure we could still go at least 10-20.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:52 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
LeBron NETrtg by halves against the Clippers (2 games)

1st half: +19.7 NETrtg
2nd half: -26.7 NETrtg


https://twitter.com/justrycole/status/1227643044616237057?s=21

Interesting stat. It demonstrates the strategy to wear him out with multiple defenders over 4 quarters.

It also shows that Lebron needs to be more aggressive early on. In both games he did not really try to score until later in the game.

Thing with being a great championship level PG, and Lebron has the talent to be that. You have to know when to be looking for teammates as a set up guy, but also when to look for your own shot (and how). Too many times this season Lebron has not looked enough for his own shot early on in the game, only to be ice cold late in the game or simply unable to put his fingerprints on the game.

It is a very very tough role to win a championship in, to be both the teams primary PG and also the primary scorer down the stretch. I think AD is as good as 1st option he can find in the league early on in a game, but you have to have your guards close out the game. The ball will run through them, not AD or the bigs.

This is where Lebron can still get to another level as a player. He has thus far been a bit shy of what he can be at his best in these sort of games.


Thing is I think he’s trying to score in the 4th but isn’t quick enough to get past Beverly or even PG.

They need to strategize how to free him up. AD PnR, Dwight PnR, him getting a running start and receiving a pass, posting up etc.

The teams that have the personnel to stay in front of Lebron at point of attack have neutralized him and generally it ends in an L for that game.

When he can’t get past the defenders of the opponent, he shoots his fade 3 and then you are just hoping it goes in. Seems to go in against the lesser teams but clank against the better teams.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:54 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
LeBron NETrtg by halves against the Clippers (2 games)

1st half: +19.7 NETrtg
2nd half: -26.7 NETrtg


https://twitter.com/justrycole/status/1227643044616237057?s=21

Interesting stat. It demonstrates the strategy to wear him out with multiple defenders over 4 quarters.


That's why it's perfect to load manage a player like Lebron. Play less minutes in the regular season, rest against mediocre opponents to be more rested against tougher opponents. But Lebron being Lebron he wanted to play as much as possible even wanting to play for Team USA. He's a smart guy but sometimes he just isn't very smart. He should learn from Doc and Kawhi. Don't waste energy on useless regular season games. Nobody cares if you've won 72 games in the regular season.


Only problem is you actually have to win regular season games to make the playoffs.


This season I think we've won enough games to qualify for the playoffs. Even if Lebron didn't play the rest of this season, I'm sure we could still go at least 10-20.


Well, I don't know. Maybe. We could probably win enough to make the playoffs I agree.

We may not care about how many regular season games we win, but I think we probably care about playoff seeding and homecourt advantage in the playoffs, etc.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:59 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
LeBron NETrtg by halves against the Clippers (2 games)

1st half: +19.7 NETrtg
2nd half: -26.7 NETrtg


https://twitter.com/justrycole/status/1227643044616237057?s=21

Interesting stat. It demonstrates the strategy to wear him out with multiple defenders over 4 quarters.

It also shows that Lebron needs to be more aggressive early on. In both games he did not really try to score until later in the game.

Thing with being a great championship level PG, and Lebron has the talent to be that. You have to know when to be looking for teammates as a set up guy, but also when to look for your own shot (and how). Too many times this season Lebron has not looked enough for his own shot early on in the game, only to be ice cold late in the game or simply unable to put his fingerprints on the game.

It is a very very tough role to win a championship in, to be both the teams primary PG and also the primary scorer down the stretch. I think AD is as good as 1st option he can find in the league early on in a game, but you have to have your guards close out the game. The ball will run through them, not AD or the bigs.

This is where Lebron can still get to another level as a player. He has thus far been a bit shy of what he can be at his best in these sort of games.


Thing is I think he’s trying to score in the 4th but isn’t quick enough to get past Beverly or even PG.

They need to strategize how to free him up. AD PnR, Dwight PnR, him getting a running start and receiving a pass, posting up etc.

The teams that have the personnel to stay in front of Lebron at point of attack have neutralized him and generally it ends in an L for that game.

When he can’t get past the defenders of the opponent, he shoots his fade 3 and then you are just hoping it goes in. Seems to go in against the lesser teams but clank against the better teams.


He should post up every time against Beverly but I think posting up wears him down as well. That's why he needs his stamina.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:01 am    Post subject:

Vogel isn’t coaching the team like he doesn’t care how many games the team wins, AD and Lebron aren’t getting much rest. We see other teams resting their vets. It isn’t a complaint but it also can’t be used as an excuse.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:04 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Vogel isn’t coaching the team like he doesn’t care how many games the team wins, AD and Lebron aren’t getting much rest. We see other teams resting their vets. It isn’t a complaint but it also can’t be used as an excuse.


The frustrating thing for me with Vogel, is that we haven't really tried anything new offensively.

Well, lately he's had Kuz running point forward at times, but other than that, nothing.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:05 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
LeBron NETrtg by halves against the Clippers (2 games)

1st half: +19.7 NETrtg
2nd half: -26.7 NETrtg


https://twitter.com/justrycole/status/1227643044616237057?s=21

Interesting stat. It demonstrates the strategy to wear him out with multiple defenders over 4 quarters.

It also shows that Lebron needs to be more aggressive early on. In both games he did not really try to score until later in the game.

Thing with being a great championship level PG, and Lebron has the talent to be that. You have to know when to be looking for teammates as a set up guy, but also when to look for your own shot (and how). Too many times this season Lebron has not looked enough for his own shot early on in the game, only to be ice cold late in the game or simply unable to put his fingerprints on the game.

It is a very very tough role to win a championship in, to be both the teams primary PG and also the primary scorer down the stretch. I think AD is as good as 1st option he can find in the league early on in a game, but you have to have your guards close out the game. The ball will run through them, not AD or the bigs.

This is where Lebron can still get to another level as a player. He has thus far been a bit shy of what he can be at his best in these sort of games.


Thing is I think he’s trying to score in the 4th but isn’t quick enough to get past Beverly or even PG.

They need to strategize how to free him up. AD PnR, Dwight PnR, him getting a running start and receiving a pass, posting up etc.

The teams that have the personnel to stay in front of Lebron at point of attack have neutralized him and generally it ends in an L for that game.

When he can’t get past the defenders of the opponent, he shoots his fade 3 and then you are just hoping it goes in. Seems to go in against the lesser teams but clank against the better teams.


He should post up every time against Beverly but I think posting up wears him down as well. That's why he needs his stamina.


I think what we will see most in crunch time is the PnR with AD. Maybe posting up too.

They should use Dwight and Caruso screens to free him up throughout the game.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:17 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
LeBron NETrtg by halves against the Clippers (2 games)

1st half: +19.7 NETrtg
2nd half: -26.7 NETrtg


https://twitter.com/justrycole/status/1227643044616237057?s=21

Interesting stat. It demonstrates the strategy to wear him out with multiple defenders over 4 quarters.


What's his split for the season?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:22 am    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
LeBron NETrtg by halves against the Clippers (2 games)

1st half: +19.7 NETrtg
2nd half: -26.7 NETrtg


https://twitter.com/justrycole/status/1227643044616237057?s=21

Interesting stat. It demonstrates the strategy to wear him out with multiple defenders over 4 quarters.


What's his split for the season?


Here you go. LINK

By Half
1st half: +14.5
2nd half: +7.3

By Quarter
1st Q: +16.5
2nd Q: +12.5
3rd Q: +4.7
4th Q: +10.1
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:27 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
LeBron NETrtg by halves against the Clippers (2 games)

1st half: +19.7 NETrtg
2nd half: -26.7 NETrtg


https://twitter.com/justrycole/status/1227643044616237057?s=21

Interesting stat. It demonstrates the strategy to wear him out with multiple defenders over 4 quarters.


What's his split for the season?


Here you go. LINK

By Half
1st half: +14.5
2nd half: +7.3

By Quarter
1st Q: +16.5
2nd Q: +12.5
3rd Q: +4.7
4th Q: +10.1


Thanks
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:32 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Vogel isn’t coaching the team like he doesn’t care how many games the team wins, AD and Lebron aren’t getting much rest. We see other teams resting their vets. It isn’t a complaint but it also can’t be used as an excuse.


The frustrating thing for me with Vogel, is that we haven't really tried anything new offensively.

Well, lately he's had Kuz running point forward at times, but other than that, nothing.


I’m a big fan of it it isn’t broke don’t fix it but in a 7 game series if you don’t have a wrinkle or two, it is easy to game plan against you.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:40 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Vogel isn’t coaching the team like he doesn’t care how many games the team wins, AD and Lebron aren’t getting much rest. We see other teams resting their vets. It isn’t a complaint but it also can’t be used as an excuse.


The frustrating thing for me with Vogel, is that we haven't really tried anything new offensively.

Well, lately he's had Kuz running point forward at times, but other than that, nothing.


I’m a big fan of it it isn’t broke don’t fix it but in a 7 game series if you don’t have a wrinkle or two, it is easy to game plan against you.


Agree, I do think it is broken. I wouldn't change a Lebron centric offense. But when Lebron isn't on the court, we are worse than the worst offense in the entire league. That's what is broken and needs to be fixed and I don't think you HAVE to use new personnel to address that.

BTW, do you think we're saving LBJ/AD pick and roll for playoffs or ... has Vogel for whatever reason just cancelled that as a viable go-to option when we need scoring in a drought.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:07 pm    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Quote:
LeBron NETrtg by halves against the Clippers (2 games)

1st half: +19.7 NETrtg
2nd half: -26.7 NETrtg


https://twitter.com/justrycole/status/1227643044616237057?s=21

Interesting stat. It demonstrates the strategy to wear him out with multiple defenders over 4 quarters.

It also shows that Lebron needs to be more aggressive early on. In both games he did not really try to score until later in the game.

Thing with being a great championship level PG, and Lebron has the talent to be that. You have to know when to be looking for teammates as a set up guy, but also when to look for your own shot (and how). Too many times this season Lebron has not looked enough for his own shot early on in the game, only to be ice cold late in the game or simply unable to put his fingerprints on the game.

It is a very very tough role to win a championship in, to be both the teams primary PG and also the primary scorer down the stretch. I think AD is as good as 1st option he can find in the league early on in a game, but you have to have your guards close out the game. The ball will run through them, not AD or the bigs.

This is where Lebron can still get to another level as a player. He has thus far been a bit shy of what he can be at his best in these sort of games.


Thing is I think he’s trying to score in the 4th but isn’t quick enough to get past Beverly or even PG.

They need to strategize how to free him up. AD PnR, Dwight PnR, him getting a running start and receiving a pass, posting up etc.

The teams that have the personnel to stay in front of Lebron at point of attack have neutralized him and generally it ends in an L for that game.

When he can’t get past the defenders of the opponent, he shoots his fade 3 and then you are just hoping it goes in. Seems to go in against the lesser teams but clank against the better teams.

When Beverly goes on him next time, Lebron needs to call for an AD screen, and get the switch. He was trying to force the match up, but if you get the switch, you will have Beverly on AD - good luck with that Clips.

I credit Pat for the last game, but to be honest in a 7 game series no way is he going to match up on Lebron. The fact is, Lebron also waited until very late to be aggressive in that game. He can not do that, it is hard to just turn it on on a whim. He plays the QB role too much like a QB. He stays BACK in the offense sometimes. He has to get into the opposing defense more. He settles being a QB who throws forward passes. That is fine mixed up with other stuff, but not exclusively that way. Gotta press, gotta run the ball into the defense as well.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:31 pm    Post subject:

The Lakers have been staggering the minutes of LeBron James and Anthony Davis, but the minutes with James off the floor continue to be a struggle. In Davis' 441 minutes with James on the bench, the Lakers have been outscored by 7.2 points per 100 possessions (by 15 per 100 over the nine games since Davis' return from a five-game absence), and Davis and Kuzma have combined to shoot 22-for-88 (25%) from 3-point range.

James has shot just 4-for-24 on clutch 3-pointers, the third worst mark among 49 players who have attempted at least 15.

#GassedKing
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:35 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
The Lakers have been staggering the minutes of LeBron James and Anthony Davis, but the minutes with James off the floor continue to be a struggle. In Davis' 441 minutes with James on the bench, the Lakers have been outscored by 7.2 points per 100 possessions (by 15 per 100 over the nine games since Davis' return from a five-game absence), and Davis and Kuzma have combined to shoot 22-for-88 (25%) from 3-point range.

James has shot just 4-for-24 on clutch 3-pointers, the third worst mark among 49 players who have attempted at least 15.

#GassedKing


The last stat doesn’t concern me too much.

The first part of your post is very much a concern. But thats an indictment on our coaching staff IMO.
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LakerSD
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:37 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
When Beverly goes on him next time, Lebron needs to call for an AD screen, and get the switch. He was trying to force the match up, but if you get the switch, you will have Beverly on AD - good luck with that Clips.

I credit Pat for the last game, but to be honest in a 7 game series no way is he going to match up on Lebron. The fact is, Lebron also waited until very late to be aggressive in that game. He can not do that, it is hard to just turn it on on a whim. He plays the QB role too much like a QB. He stays BACK in the offense sometimes. He has to get into the opposing defense more. He settles being a QB who throws forward passes. That is fine mixed up with other stuff, but not exclusively that way. Gotta press, gotta run the ball into the defense as well.


You make good points, especially about the QB role.

In the playoffs do we expect Lebron to be more of the 30 ppg scorer along with AD getting 25+? Is he just “coasting” and setting up teammates in the regular season so that they can be relied upon in the playoffs?

Time will tell. I know I’ll feel better if I see him penetrating the defense in the playoffs because that means he has broken the defense down to where he can score, draw a foul or kick it out to an open teammate.

Him penetrating the defense is really the key. No one doubts LBJ and his abilities once he has the defense compromised.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:40 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
The Lakers have been staggering the minutes of LeBron James and Anthony Davis, but the minutes with James off the floor continue to be a struggle. In Davis' 441 minutes with James on the bench, the Lakers have been outscored by 7.2 points per 100 possessions (by 15 per 100 over the nine games since Davis' return from a five-game absence), and Davis and Kuzma have combined to shoot 22-for-88 (25%) from 3-point range.

James has shot just 4-for-24 on clutch 3-pointers, the third worst mark among 49 players who have attempted at least 15.

#GassedKing


The last stat doesn’t concern me too much.

The first part of your post is very much a concern. But thats an indictment on our coaching staff IMO.


The last part is James just load-managing in game imo.

I agree that the coaching has to be more creative when the focal point becomes Davis with James on the bench. We've seen it a bit with Kuzma and Bradley taking the ball up court and having James weakside, but that is with him on the court. We need to do more to keep him off the court.
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