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KingKobe20
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:



That is more factual than your opinion. You really think a team will give up major assets for a post-prime LBJ?




27.4/8.6/8 line for the year and is post prime


Lebron can put up stats in his sleep. For me the eye test doesn't support the statline. His age has really been showing this season.


Yes, the decline was evident the last two seasons in Cleveland but this season it is much worse. I don’t think he was in good shape at any point during the season.

There are many words I could use to describe Lebron in last years playoffs, and decline is not one of them.


Yeah 51,8,8 in Game 1 of the Finals doesn’t seem like too much of a decline to me either
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:58 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Yeah, here's where I stand.

The 2012-13 was expected to be a Finals caliber team (ironically against LBJ's HEAT). The fact that they were so terrible AND we basically lost Kobe made this a worse season than this year for me. This year, I literally expected at least a 1st round playoff berth.

But this has made me appreciate Kobe more. Yes, Kobe isn't perfect, but I'll never forget how he took that team on his back and literally paid for it with his body (and rest of career).

I do think LBJ made a calculated choice to hold back on the season and backed off the throttle. For that he can be criticized no doubt. But I'm still eager to see this team next season when we will hopefully have a healthier LBJ, new max FA, and the YUTES back in force.


Agreed with all of this, Yin.

The 12/13 season was one of the most bittersweet. On the one hand, it was probably as classic of a Kobe season as any other (not the best, but just a great representation of who he was as a player - remember when he went through those stretches trying to play off-ball to give Nash a shot at running the MDA offense? Or taking on opposing PGs because we were getting torched there), but on the other hand, that was always going to be his downfall. He went harder than anyone has ever went. It's really just him and MJ in that class. It finally destroyed him, and he went out in the most Kobe way possible.

This season, I expected us to be much better, obviously. I really thought we'd get to 2nd round, and depending on matchups, I wouldn't have thought you were crazy if you predicted WCF. Part of that was my belief in Lebron really injecting us with that much needed star power. I just didn't see it unfortunately.

I think your last paragraph is what really bugs me about Lebron. He definitely has taken a calculated approach on holding back this season. He's also just been so apathetic, because yes, we all know the Lakers aren't going to win it. But that just bugs the hell out of me. That's a front running attitude, and it sucks coming from one of the best players of all-time. I agree with you, new max FA, the YUTES (lol) back in force, and you'll see a new Lebron. That's great, but that doesn't change my view on him, which I've held for awhile. I feel this kind of stuff should be a much more legitimate criticism when all the SUPER important, and VERY meaningful, all-time ranking conversations happen. I saw him literally quit on the Cavs against Boston before leaving for Miami, and he's checked out of an entire season this year. That's unreal to me. What other all-timers do that? Jordan is rolling over in his grave. Next year he'll be fine I think, but damn if this year wasn't a giant pain in the ass to watch heh.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:01 am    Post subject:

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I think your last paragraph is what really bugs me about Lebron. He definitely has taken a calculated approach on holding back this season. He's also just been so apathetic, because yes, we all know the Lakers aren't going to win it. But that just bugs the hell out of me. That's a front running attitude, and it sucks coming from one of the best players of all-time. I agree with you, new max FA, the YUTES (lol) back in force, and you'll see a new Lebron. That's great, but that doesn't change my view on him, which I've held for awhile. I feel this kind of stuff should be a much more legitimate criticism when all the SUPER important, and VERY meaningful, all-time ranking conversations happen. I saw him literally quit on the Cavs against Boston before leaving for Miami, and he's checked out of an entire season this year. That's unreal to me. What other all-timers do that? Next year he'll be fine I think, but damn if this year wasn't a giant pain in the ass to watch heh.


He has never been in this kind of position if you think about it. Must be a shock to his system but he's trying to play it off as if it's not much.

You know how he is chasing the GOATs and this will be a mark against him. I thought our roster construction was too flawed to do much, but I expected more from LBJ b/c he is truly a great player. But make no mistake, he gave up on this team and that's just never going to win over Lakers/Kobe fans.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:01 am    Post subject:

KingKobe20 wrote:
RealSkipBayless wrote:
1:20 LeBron James misses 24-foot three point jumper 123 - 118
44.3 DeAndre Jordan blocks LeBron James' 2-foot driving layup 123 - 120
30.6 LeBron James misses 22-foot jumper 123 - 122
2.3 Mario Hezonja blocks LeBron James 's 13-foot two point shot 123 - 124



What about Lebron playing on the court with KCP, Hart, Caruso, and Jon Williams???

How many games does Kawhi, Giannis, or KD win with that kind of firepower???


What firepower does Giannis have exactly? Middleton averages 18 PPG and he is their second best scorer. Other than that, they just have a bunch of solid role guys. Lebron would probably have like 40 wins right now with that team and guys like Middleton, Bledsoe, Lopez, and etc would be labeled as bums. Lebron isn't even close to Giannis at this point. KD and Kawhi would have this team in a better spot as well. All 3 would have the Lakers in the playoffs that's for damn sure.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:03 am    Post subject:

MustardJam wrote:
KingKobe20 wrote:
RealSkipBayless wrote:
1:20 LeBron James misses 24-foot three point jumper 123 - 118
44.3 DeAndre Jordan blocks LeBron James' 2-foot driving layup 123 - 120
30.6 LeBron James misses 22-foot jumper 123 - 122
2.3 Mario Hezonja blocks LeBron James 's 13-foot two point shot 123 - 124



What about Lebron playing on the court with KCP, Hart, Caruso, and Jon Williams???

How many games does Kawhi, Giannis, or KD win with that kind of firepower???


What firepower does Giannis have exactly? Middleton averages 18 PPG and he is their second best scorer. Other than that, they just have a bunch of solid role guys. Lebron would probably have like 40 wins right now with that team and guys like Middleton, Bledsoe, Lopez, and etc would be labeled as bums. Lebron isn't even close to Giannis at this point. KD and Kawhi would have this team in a better spot as well. All 3 would have the Lakers in the playoffs that's for damn sure.


I'd happily trade (for one season) our guys for the Bucks guys.

But you're missing the whole argument. It's Coach Bud vs. Luke. And the Bucks FO vs. ours. They put together a coherent team for Giannis.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:09 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
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I think your last paragraph is what really bugs me about Lebron. He definitely has taken a calculated approach on holding back this season. He's also just been so apathetic, because yes, we all know the Lakers aren't going to win it. But that just bugs the hell out of me. That's a front running attitude, and it sucks coming from one of the best players of all-time. I agree with you, new max FA, the YUTES (lol) back in force, and you'll see a new Lebron. That's great, but that doesn't change my view on him, which I've held for awhile. I feel this kind of stuff should be a much more legitimate criticism when all the SUPER important, and VERY meaningful, all-time ranking conversations happen. I saw him literally quit on the Cavs against Boston before leaving for Miami, and he's checked out of an entire season this year. That's unreal to me. What other all-timers do that? Next year he'll be fine I think, but damn if this year wasn't a giant pain in the ass to watch heh.


He has never been in this kind of position if you think about it. Must be a shock to his system but he's trying to play it off as if it's not much.

You know how he is chasing the GOATs and this will be a mark against him. I thought our roster construction was too flawed to do much, but I expected more from LBJ b/c he is truly a great player. But make no mistake, he gave up on this team and that's just never going to win over Lakers/Kobe fans.


Yeah, coming out West had to be a wakeup call. Can't just roll out of bed and cruise to the Finals.

The roster construction was definitely flawed. You put a Meme Team together and then when it blows up? Wow. *suprisedpikachuface*

And yeah, that last line nails it. We saw a dude who went all out for 20 years, through more injuries than Lebron can even fathom. We all appreciated that immensely. But Lebron in the eyes of the general fan and media passed up Kobe (I obviously strongly disagree), so it's not going to sit well when that guy gets stuffed by Super Scrub Mario Hezonja and drinks wine at games while the team spirals into ANOTHER lottery season. That's just not a good look for someone who as we talked about before, has zero equity with Laker fans. He's still a great player, one of the all-timers, I just expect more. Next season I certainly will expect him to be rejuvenated and hope he doesn't fall into the "well I got mine in the 18/19 season", and instead uses the criticism to really come back stronger.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:



That is more factual than your opinion. You really think a team will give up major assets for a post-prime LBJ?




27.4/8.6/8 line for the year and is post prime


Lebron can put up stats in his sleep. For me the eye test doesn't support the statline. His age has really been showing this season.


Yes, the decline was evident the last two seasons in Cleveland but this season it is much worse. I don’t think he was in good shape at any point during the season.


I thought he looked heavy to start the season. That's not uncommon for older players to play themselves into shape. He was starting to look better before the injury, and then there were reports he gained 20 pounds when he came back.

Lebron hasn't looked like himself this season, regardless of the statline. Maybe people just never really watched him at his peak if they think he's still in his prime.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:17 am    Post subject:

He really has to embrace playing PF.

He won't be able to blow by younger SFs and he doesn't have the footwork in the post against them either.

So be a small ball PF and kill PFs on the perimeter. Open up the floor a bit more.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:22 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
He really has to embrace playing PF.

He won't be able to blow by younger SFs and he doesn't have the footwork in the post against them either.

So be a small ball PF and kill PFs on the perimeter. Open up the floor a bit more.


other then LMA and Favors which PF's are stronger then him?

he needs to make a move now. everybody in FA is a wing. puts kuzma on bench too
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:23 am    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
He really has to embrace playing PF.

He won't be able to blow by younger SFs and he doesn't have the footwork in the post against them either.

So be a small ball PF and kill PFs on the perimeter. Open up the floor a bit more.


other then LMA and Favors which PF's are stronger then him?

he needs to make a move now. everybody in FA is a wing. puts kuzma on bench too


Yeah. Kuz can do a lot of damage off the bench. LBJ can have a weaker defender on him (PF) who may not be as comfortable guarding "wing" players.

It does also mean LBJ would have to bang around with taller/heavy players, and that he would have to take his rim protection duties seriously. It would also mean you absolutely need a rim protecting center alongside him too.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:48 am    Post subject:

MustardJam wrote:
KingKobe20 wrote:
RealSkipBayless wrote:
1:20 LeBron James misses 24-foot three point jumper 123 - 118
44.3 DeAndre Jordan blocks LeBron James' 2-foot driving layup 123 - 120
30.6 LeBron James misses 22-foot jumper 123 - 122
2.3 Mario Hezonja blocks LeBron James 's 13-foot two point shot 123 - 124



What about Lebron playing on the court with KCP, Hart, Caruso, and Jon Williams???

How many games does Kawhi, Giannis, or KD win with that kind of firepower???


What firepower does Giannis have exactly? Middleton averages 18 PPG and he is their second best scorer. Other than that, they just have a bunch of solid role guys. Lebron would probably have like 40 wins right now with that team and guys like Middleton, Bledsoe, Lopez, and etc would be labeled as bums. Lebron isn't even close to Giannis at this point. KD and Kawhi would have this team in a better spot as well. All 3 would have the Lakers in the playoffs that's for damn sure.


You’re really comparing Jon Williams, Caruso, Josh Hart and KCP to Middleton, Bledsoe, Lopez and let’s not forget Brogdan who’s shooting 43% from 3 this season

Lebron would kill with that lineup, of course if he never injures his groin. An fwiw he was killing with this current Lakers roster before the injury as we were like 7 games above .500

KD or Kawhi would not have this team with all it’s injuries in the playoffs get out of here. They’re not Jesus.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject:

People are talking about a decline, there is no decline in LeBron’s game, he just chose not to put the team on his back for some reason and once Zo and BI got shut down he definitely said “I don’t care about this team or season” and he’s playing like it and body language exudes it.

There was never a decline it’s a personal choice on his part to not go all out. Still averaging 27 pts a game when not really giving a (bleep).
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:32 am    Post subject:

KingKobe20 wrote:
trablos wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:



That is more factual than your opinion. You really think a team will give up major assets for a post-prime LBJ?




27.4/8.6/8 line for the year and is post prime


Lebron can put up stats in his sleep. For me the eye test doesn't support the statline. His age has really been showing this season.


Yes, the decline was evident the last two seasons in Cleveland but this season it is much worse. I don’t think he was in good shape at any point during the season.

There are many words I could use to describe Lebron in last years playoffs, and decline is not one of them.


Yeah 51,8,8 in Game 1 of the Finals doesn’t seem like too much of a decline to me either


Fans love offense but are blind to defense. Lebron was poor defensively the past two seasons and this season as well. Sometimes the game is more than just box scores.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:40 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
KingKobe20 wrote:
trablos wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:



That is more factual than your opinion. You really think a team will give up major assets for a post-prime LBJ?




27.4/8.6/8 line for the year and is post prime


Lebron can put up stats in his sleep. For me the eye test doesn't support the statline. His age has really been showing this season.


Yes, the decline was evident the last two seasons in Cleveland but this season it is much worse. I don’t think he was in good shape at any point during the season.

There are many words I could use to describe Lebron in last years playoffs, and decline is not one of them.


Yeah 51,8,8 in Game 1 of the Finals doesn’t seem like too much of a decline to me either


Fans love offense but are blind to defense. Lebron was poor defensively the past two seasons and this season as well. Sometimes the game is more than just box scores.


As critical as I am of Lebron, I can accept that he's poor defensively or picks/chooses his spots. Most superstars have done it to conserve energy and carry more of the load on offense. However, what I am critical of is Lebron pointing fingers and rolling his eyes on missed assignments when he's as much to blame as anyone for the defensive woes. That's poor leadership. Not to mention, conserving that energy hasn't exactly led to the team being carried overall. That's where I have issue. He was rarely a stud defender in his career, but now he's largely checked out on that end yet visibly disgusted with others.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:46 am    Post subject:

Tony Almeida wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
KingKobe20 wrote:
trablos wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:



That is more factual than your opinion. You really think a team will give up major assets for a post-prime LBJ?




27.4/8.6/8 line for the year and is post prime


Lebron can put up stats in his sleep. For me the eye test doesn't support the statline. His age has really been showing this season.


Yes, the decline was evident the last two seasons in Cleveland but this season it is much worse. I don’t think he was in good shape at any point during the season.

There are many words I could use to describe Lebron in last years playoffs, and decline is not one of them.


Yeah 51,8,8 in Game 1 of the Finals doesn’t seem like too much of a decline to me either


Fans love offense but are blind to defense. Lebron was poor defensively the past two seasons and this season as well. Sometimes the game is more than just box scores.


As critical as I am of Lebron, I can accept that he's poor defensively or picks/chooses his spots. Most superstars have done it to conserve energy and carry more of the load on offense. However, what I am critical of is Lebron pointing fingers and rolling his eyes on missed assignments when he's as much to blame as anyone for the defensive woes. That's poor leadership. Not to mention, conserving that energy hasn't exactly led to the team being carried overall. That's where I have issue. He was rarely a stud defender in his career, but now he's largely checked out on that end yet visibly disgusted with others.


I don't think Lebron could effectively guard a ballhandler for more than a quarter even if he wanted to. His stamina is one area where his age really showed. Expect to see a lot of "load management" for the rest of his career. Like Yin said, he should really be a PF at this stage.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:55 am    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
I don't think Lebron could effectively guard a ballhandler for more than a quarter even if he wanted to. His stamina is one area where his age really showed. Expect to see a lot of "load management" for the rest of his career. Like Yin said, he should really be a PF at this stage.


Damn, you think his stamina has fell off that bad? How much of it do you think is conditioning vs. age?

Think you said it earlier, he never really looked like he was in shape this year. The start of the year was slow, and there was only one stretch where he played consistently good basketball. Most of the time he looked out of shape / much heavier than usual.

You think that's an age/mileage issue (in which case load management is unfortunately a new reality) or will the offseason give him a chance to get his body right?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:42 pm    Post subject:

Kobe worked on his body like a madman and was physically declining at a similar age. It’s just human nature.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:50 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Kobe worked on his body like a madman and was physically declining at a similar age. It’s just human nature.


No doubt - but one advantage Lebron has always had on Kobe was his build. The dude is built like a tank (I'm not going for the tanking joke here). Freak of nature athleticism.

This season he just seemed slower / overweight. And I don't think that it was all due to age. Think he was going the Shaq route of playing himself into shape and it just never happened after that groin injury.

He's going to lose a step for sure, even someone like Kobe who worked on his body more obsessively than anyone other than MJ, we saw his athletic decline (each year even before the achilles finally took him down). I just think Lebron's slowdown was a bit more self inflicted and not all Father Time. He's BEEN slowing down, definitely true. Those peak Miami years are long gone. But even factoring in Father Time, this seemed like there was more to it.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:05 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
KingKobe20 wrote:
trablos wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:



That is more factual than your opinion. You really think a team will give up major assets for a post-prime LBJ?




27.4/8.6/8 line for the year and is post prime


Lebron can put up stats in his sleep. For me the eye test doesn't support the statline. His age has really been showing this season.


Yes, the decline was evident the last two seasons in Cleveland but this season it is much worse. I don’t think he was in good shape at any point during the season.

There are many words I could use to describe Lebron in last years playoffs, and decline is not one of them.


Yeah 51,8,8 in Game 1 of the Finals doesn’t seem like too much of a decline to me either


Fans love offense but are blind to defense. Lebron was poor defensively the past two seasons and this season as well. Sometimes the game is more than just box scores.



I agree with that. His defense has been suspect going back a few years for sure. When’s he engaged though and doesn’t have to focus all his energy on carrying a team on offense he will play tough defense possession by possession.

This entire summer off will be the first for Lebron in quite awhile. Got this feeling that he’ll have that mid life career crisis and comes back in extreme shape, maybe dropping 10-15 pounds.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:29 pm    Post subject:

Tony Almeida wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Kobe worked on his body like a madman and was physically declining at a similar age. It’s just human nature.


No doubt - but one advantage Lebron has always had on Kobe was his build. The dude is built like a tank (I'm not going for the tanking joke here). Freak of nature athleticism.

This season he just seemed slower / overweight. And I don't think that it was all due to age. Think he was going the Shaq route of playing himself into shape and it just never happened after that groin injury.

He's going to lose a step for sure, even someone like Kobe who worked on his body more obsessively than anyone other than MJ, we saw his athletic decline (each year even before the achilles finally took him down). I just think Lebron's slowdown was a bit more self inflicted and not all Father Time. He's BEEN slowing down, definitely true. Those peak Miami years are long gone. But even factoring in Father Time, this seemed like there was more to it.



It seems like the last couple of years, Lebron has been cruising on defense during the regular season, but then ramps it up toward the end of the season and playoffs (though situationally: offense remains his primary focus).

Lebron's strength, size and bulk does give him a natural advantage over most SFs and guards, because he can easily slide into more of a power forward role.

Ideally, Lebron should be paired with versatile front court teammates so he can play his traditional role on offense, but let matchups dictate what role he plays on defense.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:41 pm    Post subject:

LJ can roll out of bed and put up 30/8/8. The problem is he was NEVER much of a defensive player and he has gotten progressively worse (and gives less effort). You can hide his defensive deficiencies by surrounding him with a couple of good defensive minded players. Unfortunately, we were not able to do it (injuries and missed games were a big problem). We started out strong defensively, and each moth we got worse (started out the year #5 in team defense and went down EVERY month since culminating to 28th in team D in March). Also, he wanted to play off the ball more on offense. That may have lasted a couple of games. His style of play (not knocking him) becomes stagnant and stifles young players and their development. I really blame Luke (who I like) for this.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:18 pm    Post subject:

lakerfan4life wrote:
If we strike out on everyone, a LBJ trade needs to seriously be on the table. I don’t wanna deal with two more years of everything being out LeBrons legacy and nothing else. I’m sick of it already


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:38 pm    Post subject:

Folks comparing this team to the 12/13 team are really dismissing Howard’s contributions. He wasn’t peak Dwight but he still gave All-NBA play and a defensive anchor. I think LeBron makes the playoffs with another all-league, defending pivot on the team, especially if he doesn’t have the groin injury. Harden won 50+ with him the following season. A big giving you 17/12/2 with defense is basically a max player today. Kobe had another max player for the great majority of the season. That would be considered help by any measure.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:46 pm    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
LJ can roll out of bed and put up 30/8/8. The problem is he was NEVER much of a defensive player and he has gotten progressively worse (and gives less effort).


I don't agree with this. I'd say until a few years ago he was one of the best defenders in the NBA. I believe in came in second in voting for the DPoY award a couple of times and he's finished in the top 5 a few times. He is not the same defender he used to be, but at his best he was great.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:55 pm    Post subject:

Tony Almeida wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Kobe worked on his body like a madman and was physically declining at a similar age. It’s just human nature.


No doubt - but one advantage Lebron has always had on Kobe was his build. The dude is built like a tank (I'm not going for the tanking joke here). Freak of nature athleticism.

This season he just seemed slower / overweight. And I don't think that it was all due to age. Think he was going the Shaq route of playing himself into shape and it just never happened after that groin injury.

He's going to lose a step for sure, even someone like Kobe who worked on his body more obsessively than anyone other than MJ, we saw his athletic decline (each year even before the achilles finally took him down). I just think Lebron's slowdown was a bit more self inflicted and not all Father Time. He's BEEN slowing down, definitely true. Those peak Miami years are long gone. But even factoring in Father Time, this seemed like there was more to it.


It’s the mileage. He’s got more miles on his body than any other player ever at this stage.
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