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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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 Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | BlackStarMamba wrote: | Kyrie shouldnt even be in this discussion
Lebrons true respect came when he went back to cleveland and won a chip. also taking last year's team to the finals. But going to Miami and teaming with Wade and Bosh is an example of what Scottie is talking about.
Clutch Gene players like Allen Iverson, Dirk, Kobe, Duncan, Westbrook, Giannis..don't keep searching for Hall of famers to join them so they can win. They will their team to finals and victories.
Kobe almost took a scrub team to upset the #2 sun's
Iverson took a team to the finals
Dirk, Duncan etc
Westbrook resigned an extension with OKC even after KD left. Gianni's has been quoted many time saying he doesn't work out with guys because he's competitive.
. |
Spot on regarding AI and Dirk. Kobe tried to bounce in less seasons with subpar help than LeBron gave Cleveland before leaving. Duncan was blessed with enough help to never have had to leave. Westbrook cares about stats more than winning so why would he leave a team that gameplans to help him get stats. We will see what happens with the Greek Freak.
LeBron took a scrub team to the Finals as well, and it didn't have one player as good as 06 Lamar Odom. |
Larry Hughes.
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CHAMP24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | BlackStarMamba wrote: | Kyrie shouldnt even be in this discussion
Lebrons true respect came when he went back to cleveland and won a chip. also taking last year's team to the finals. But going to Miami and teaming with Wade and Bosh is an example of what Scottie is talking about.
Clutch Gene players like Allen Iverson, Dirk, Kobe, Duncan, Westbrook, Giannis..don't keep searching for Hall of famers to join them so they can win. They will their team to finals and victories.
Kobe almost took a scrub team to upset the #2 sun's
Iverson took a team to the finals
Dirk, Duncan etc
Westbrook resigned an extension with OKC even after KD left. Gianni's has been quoted many time saying he doesn't work out with guys because he's competitive.
. |
Spot on regarding AI and Dirk. Kobe tried to bounce in less seasons with subpar help than LeBron gave Cleveland before leaving. Duncan was blessed with enough help to never have had to leave. Westbrook cares about stats more than winning so why would he leave a team that gameplans to help him get stats. We will see what happens with the Greek Freak.
LeBron took a scrub team to the Finals as well, and it didn't have one player as good as 06 Lamar Odom. |
Larry Hughes. |
Oh poor widdle webwon.
I respect Kobe's rings. The last two rings are even more remarkable because he was black balled after the Colorado (bleep) (robbed of mvps, unnatural basketball move suspensions, lost sponsors, etc.) The team broke up, had to start from scratch. Didn't get "mike" love from the refs, was taunted that he couldn't do it without shaq, yet still found a way to go to the finals 3 times in a row, FROM THE WEST (yes, it was still tougher then) and win two in a row with an entirely different team than before. Left his heart and soul out on the court for the purple and gold. Dude was always trying to WIN THE GAME and entertain the crowd. What other player came back from that kind of scandal and STILL won rings? Dude overcame a LOT of hate with pure skill and will. |
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CHAMP24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| You say ONE thing critical of lediva's game and his fan boys get all in their feelings as if he farts febreeze. |
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47580
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| CHAMP24 wrote: | | You say ONE thing critical of lediva's game and his fan boys get all in their feelings as if he farts febreeze. |
Not really, it just seems like an incredibly ill informed take considering his numbers on the floor this season.
Cheers!
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CHAMP24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| People are more critical of a 5 time champion with a 5-2 finals record, all from the west than a so called king with a 3-6 finals record, coming from the east. It's sad and disrespectful. It pisses me off that he gets excuses that kobe didn't and they put him ahead of kobe. Ok, so if you are ahead of kobe, he isnt, SHOW IT NOW!! |
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CHAMP24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | CHAMP24 wrote: | | You say ONE thing critical of lediva's game and his fan boys get all in their feelings as if he farts febreeze. |
Not really, it just seems like an incredibly ill informed take considering his numbers on the floor this season.
Cheers! |
Typical fan boy response, look at his stats....blah...blah...can't hide behind stats. What I'm talking about is not measured in stats. |
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| CHAMP24 wrote: |
Typical fan boy response, look at his stats....blah...blah...can't hide behind stats. What I'm talking about is not measured in stats. |
What is it measured in?
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | CHAMP24 wrote: |
Typical fan boy response, look at his stats....blah...blah...can't hide behind stats. What I'm talking about is not measured in stats. |
What is it measured in? |
I'll take this one.
It's called heart, passion and competitive spirit. Off the charts for one player, selective timing for the other. Just different cats.
For me, when the topic of disrespect of Kobe comes up it always goes to the MVPs and the ASG that Wade took a cheap shot foul on a Kobe on a dunk and broke his nose and gave him a concussion. In a freaking ASG! |
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CHAMP24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | | CHAMP24 wrote: |
Typical fan boy response, look at his stats....blah...blah...can't hide behind stats. What I'm talking about is not measured in stats. |
What is it measured in? |
I'll take this one.
It's called heart, passion and competitive spirit. Off the charts for one player, selective timing for the other. Just different cats.
For me, when the topic of disrespect of Kobe comes up it always goes to the MVPs and the ASG that Wade took a cheap shot foul on a Kobe on a dunk and broke his nose and gave him a concussion. In a freaking ASG! |
Nobody was more polarizing than Kobe. From day one when he dared to be as great as MJ, play like MJ, talk like MJ, etc. He was the first guard to go pro from HS and he was immediately compared to MJ because of playing style. He was the closest thing to MJ since MJ and he was the MJ of his era but people don't want to give him his just due. He was so good, he had TWO jerseys retired. I don't like how they give LeBron a free pass past Magic, Kobe, Kareem, Bird, Russell, Chamberlain,MJ and others with a losing record in the finals. Do people realize he just got SWEPT in the finals and he is still the KANG in their eyes. It really made my blood boil when Kobe was winning 4 and 5 but when the next season started it was King James this, King James that......It really pissed me off and still does. |
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CHAMP24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| It really pisses me off when I hear that the "KING" needs more HELP EVERY FREAKIN time he loses. I thought he was the ultimate "Make players around him better" player. What about that?! |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| CHAMP24 wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | | CHAMP24 wrote: |
Typical fan boy response, look at his stats....blah...blah...can't hide behind stats. What I'm talking about is not measured in stats. |
What is it measured in? |
I'll take this one.
It's called heart, passion and competitive spirit. Off the charts for one player, selective timing for the other. Just different cats.
For me, when the topic of disrespect of Kobe comes up it always goes to the MVPs and the ASG that Wade took a cheap shot foul on a Kobe on a dunk and broke his nose and gave him a concussion. In a freaking ASG! |
Nobody was more polarizing than Kobe. From day one when he dared to be as great as MJ, play like MJ, talk like MJ, etc. He was the first guard to go pro from HS and he was immediately compared to MJ because of playing style. He was the closest thing to MJ since MJ and he was the MJ of his era but people don't want to give him his just due. He was so good, he had TWO jerseys retired. I don't like how they give LeBron a free pass past Magic, Kobe, Kareem, Bird, Russell, Chamberlain,MJ and others with a losing record in the finals. Do people realize he just got SWEPT in the finals and he is still the KANG in their eyes. It really made my blood boil when Kobe was winning 4 and 5 but when the next season started it was King James this, King James that......It really pissed me off and still does. |
I'm not going to go that far. James is an amazing talent that has had an amazing career. Not going to dismiss the man because I respect what Kobe has done as a Laker more then James has done.
From a stats and level of play I have even had my blasphemous moments of giving James the edge on a top 5 list. Just prefer the intangibles edge that Kobe had. His own fierce competitive spirit and willingness to play injured or attack stacked defenses was both what made him great and caused so much criticism. Two sides of the same coin.
But from a media and fan adulation level I do think that James gets a pass for things or overblown rhetoric at times while Kobe was not given his due in his prime. But I'm biased, what do i know. |
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CHAMP24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| Nw I see why big tI'm FA won't come because they will get ZERO credit for the chip and ALL the blame when they lose. It's why kyrie left and nobody wants to come. KD was right. Look how toxic things are now. First it was spoelstra, then blatt, then lue, now it's luke. It's NEVER him. That's BS. |
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Good ol Lebron vs Kobe. Still alive and well.
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MustardJam
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| miggz23 wrote: | | MustardJam wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | BlackStarMamba wrote: | Kyrie shouldnt even be in this discussion
Lebrons true respect came when he went back to cleveland and won a chip. also taking last year's team to the finals. But going to Miami and teaming with Wade and Bosh is an example of what Scottie is talking about.
Clutch Gene players like Allen Iverson, Dirk, Kobe, Duncan, Westbrook, Giannis..don't keep searching for Hall of famers to join them so they can win. They will their team to finals and victories.
Kobe almost took a scrub team to upset the #2 sun's
Iverson took a team to the finals
Dirk, Duncan etc
Westbrook resigned an extension with OKC even after KD left. Gianni's has been quoted many time saying he doesn't work out with guys because he's competitive.
. |
Spot on regarding AI and Dirk. Kobe tried to bounce in less seasons with subpar help than LeBron gave Cleveland before leaving. Duncan was blessed with enough help to never have had to leave. Westbrook cares about stats more than winning so why would he leave a team that gameplans to help him get stats. We will see what happens with the Greek Freak.
LeBron took a scrub team to the Finals as well, and it didn't have one player as good as 06 Lamar Odom. |
That last line is bs! 2018 Kevin Love was better than 06 Lamar Odom |
I really don't know what the hell Cavs did with Love. Maybe it's just Lebron not meshing well with big men but the dude averaged 26 and 13 the year before he came to the Cavs. I know people always use the ridiculous excuse that Love was on a terrible team but hilariously that never gets thrown around with Davis and his stats. The 2013 Wolves were only one game from .500 with the second best player as 2 years before Kevin Martin and 3rd Pekovic. Just going into that season BR had him 15 overall, SI had him at 13 in 2014, and ESPN had him at #7.
My point is, Love was basically a consensus top 15 player and even considered top 10 buy some before his stint with the Cavs. It's not particularly fair to say he wasn't good when the reality is they made him not good. Lebron can't play with big men (Bosh also had his stats tank). He needs shooters because having another guy sitting in the paint when you drive isn't helpful. |
Maybe it's as simple as going from a 1st option on a bad team, to a 3rd option on a contender. |
Except it's not that simple. If you're going to the 3rd option yes you're stats should dip but your efficiency should also increase as you have less pressure, easier match ups, practically no double teams, and etc.
Not only did Love have his stats dip across virtually every category. His FG%, 3P%, and eFG% all dipped.
Also, Love got a ton of (bleep) for being terrible from Lebron fans. Again, he was considered a top 15 player across the board his last season in Minnesota if not even top 10 in cases. |
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LandsbergerRules
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
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Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Good ol Lebron vs Kobe. Still alive and well. |
This debate will live longer than either of the guys involved. 
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"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| CHAMP24 wrote: | | Nw I see why big tI'm FA won't come because they will get ZERO credit for the chip and ALL the blame when they lose. It's why kyrie left and nobody wants to come. KD was right. Look how toxic things are now. First it was spoelstra, then blatt, then lue, now it's luke. It's NEVER him. That's BS. |
What's your regular username?
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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TheBlackMamba
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Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9057
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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And Kyrie got better every year with Lebron, so what’s the point here? Love’s role changed for the best on the Cavs. The style of play that allowed him to put up huge numbers on the Wolves also didn’t help him make the playoffs for his entire career there. So yes, his touches naturally went down and he wasn’t getting the ball where he was accustomed to and having as many plays called for him. That’s what happens when you start playing with two superior players who can create more efficient offense for the team.
It’s like saying the Lakers should’ve run their offense through Dwight the one year we had him purely because that’s how he played in Orlando and what made him comfortable there (and he was actually successful compared to Love), as if Kobe didn’t exist and wasn’t the better option. Should we also say that Kobe made Dwight worse because his stats took a hit? No, because that’s ridiculous. |
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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | CHAMP24 wrote: | | Nw I see why big tI'm FA won't come because they will get ZERO credit for the chip and ALL the blame when they lose. It's why kyrie left and nobody wants to come. KD was right. Look how toxic things are now. First it was spoelstra, then blatt, then lue, now it's luke. It's NEVER him. That's BS. |
What's your regular username? |
CHUMP24 |
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kbitboc
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm hoping Lebron is doing some major recruiting this all-star weekend. |
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The Lebrons
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Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 4778
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| kbitboc wrote: | | I'm hoping Lebron is doing some major recruiting this all-star weekend. |
Don't think you need to worry about that. |
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CHAMP24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | CHAMP24 wrote: | | Nw I see why big tI'm FA won't come because they will get ZERO credit for the chip and ALL the blame when they lose. It's why kyrie left and nobody wants to come. KD was right. Look how toxic things are now. First it was spoelstra, then blatt, then lue, now it's luke. It's NEVER him. That's BS. |
What's your regular username? |
CHUMP24 |
Truth hurts, what is your's, Lebrons colon inspector? |
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CHAMP24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| KD had a point. Our situation is toxic right now. Only a fool would believe that bron wasn't behind the trade attempt. |
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Judah
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | cthroatgtr wrote: | | KingKobe20 wrote: | | Reading some rumors that Lebron gained 20-30 pounds during his rehab 🤷🏻♂️🍩🍩🍩🍩🍩🍩🍩🍩🍩 |
I am not sure that is possible. I think he got out of shape rehabbing and put on some weight but certainly not 20-30. If he did it that fast he wold look more like fat Shawn Kemp. To start the year he was a bit heavier as well.
Lebron looks sluggish and not as explosive. He is putting up good numbers but not really challenging the defense in the same manner. He actually reminds me of achilles injury year Kobe. That was the year Kobe started to look like he was slowing down. He actually put up great numbers, but it wasn't the same. Lebron isn't dunking as much there are a lot more layups off of glass. More threes. It comes with age. |
I expected this decline to happen a little later in Bron's contract, but damn, this injury really accelerated that process. It's good that he can still be very effective. However, I don't know if he'll ever get back to how he was last season with the Cavs when he still looked dominant and explosive. |
Lol but why act like the way he's looked while working his way back from the injury is how he’ll look permanently for the remainder of his Laker career? He didn't tear his achilles. He was just out for 20 games.
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Last edited by Judah on Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MustardJam
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | And Kyrie got better every year with Lebron, so what’s the point here? Love’s role changed for the best on the Cavs. The style of play that allowed him to put up huge numbers on the Wolves also didn’t help him make the playoffs for his entire career there. So yes, his touches naturally went down and he wasn’t getting the ball where he was accustomed to and having as many plays called for him. That’s what happens when you start playing with two superior players who can create more efficient offense for the team.
It’s like saying the Lakers should’ve run their offense through Dwight the one year we had him purely because that’s how he played in Orlando and what made him comfortable there (and he was actually successful compared to Love), as if Kobe didn’t exist and wasn’t the better option. Should we also say that Kobe made Dwight worse because his stats took a hit? No, because that’s ridiculous. |
Actually not true on Kyrie. His stats dipped from his second season in the NBA compared to his first season with Lebron. In his second season with Lebron he had the second-worst season on a PPG basis and career lows in assists and rebounds. It was only when he got to his 3rd season when he put up career numbers. However, his overall stats have been even better on Boston than in that season so I highly doubt it had anything to do with Lebron but more so with just taking a step forward. Lebron didn't make Kyrie worse or better but saying he got better every year is just flat out wrong.
As for Dwight, his stats took a small hit. He scored only 3 PPG less than the season before and still led the league in rebounds. He was also slightly more efficent as well. Loves took a significant hit with significant decrease in efficency.
That's my point. I understand Love having his stats go down. I don't understand having his efficency tank like that. It makes no sense. If Lebron is truly getting you better shots that shouldn't happen. That's my biggest issue. Lebron makes teammates better....except when he doesn't. Then it's their fault. |
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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| CHAMP24 wrote: | | KD had a point. Our situation is toxic right now. Only a fool would believe that bron wasn't behind the trade attempt. |
Toxic because of the front office not LBJ. |
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