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The God Particle
Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2196
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 Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | I miss watching a guy who cares on defense. I knew he was important to us on D, but his effect can’t be THIS big, can it? |
Of course not. For anyone to suggest that his impact is this big is fooling themselves.
Zo is a very very good defender for a 2nd year point guard, but his defense in actuality is very overrated now. He is however, projecting to being an elite level defender.
Zo's game doesn't travel. Don't take my word for it, look it up. He's absolutely atrocious on the road. He would have had little to no impact on this road trip and him more than any other player on the roster "would feel" betrayed by the FO. |
He’s an elite defender for a second year player and is already a very very good defender if not elite for anybody. He’s not overrated defensively.
In his last two road games he lead us to a win at OKC and led the team to a comfortable lead at Houston. Good thing I didn’t take your word for it.
I know the team is mailing it in but I still don’t understand how reluctant so many are to give this kid obviously deserved credit as a very impactful player. |
We are literally arguing about the impact a player who is averaging a triple-single would have on this team. One with a shooting slash line of 40/33/42 !!! I won't even post his road side numbers and slash line! Have we already forgotten just how a terrible fit he is with Lebron on the floor?
Cherry picking any single game you want doesn't change any of those stats or the impact of those stats! For every positive point in defensive rating he gives it up on the O-side.
With how the FO has handled the last 2 trading deadlines, and how they can't seem to stop talking about every player not on this roster, there is no reason to think that Lonzo wouldn't be mailing it in either! In fact, based on the words from Lavar, seems like Lonzo has already mailed it in on his head coach long ago.
I'm happy the Lakers kept Lonzo, as I think he is generally undervalued in this league, but good god, Lonzo is who Lonzo is......and he wouldn't be turning these losses into wins. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| The God Particle wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | I miss watching a guy who cares on defense. I knew he was important to us on D, but his effect can’t be THIS big, can it? |
Of course not. For anyone to suggest that his impact is this big is fooling themselves.
Zo is a very very good defender for a 2nd year point guard, but his defense in actuality is very overrated now. He is however, projecting to being an elite level defender.
Zo's game doesn't travel. Don't take my word for it, look it up. He's absolutely atrocious on the road. He would have had little to no impact on this road trip and him more than any other player on the roster "would feel" betrayed by the FO. |
He’s an elite defender for a second year player and is already a very very good defender if not elite for anybody. He’s not overrated defensively.
In his last two road games he lead us to a win at OKC and led the team to a comfortable lead at Houston. Good thing I didn’t take your word for it.
I know the team is mailing it in but I still don’t understand how reluctant so many are to give this kid obviously deserved credit as a very impactful player. |
We are literally arguing about the impact a player who is averaging a triple-single would have on this team. One with a shooting slash line of 40/33/42 !!! I won't even post his road side numbers and slash line! Have we already forgotten just how a terrible fit he is with Lebron on the floor?
Cherry picking any single game you want doesn't change any of those stats or the impact of those stats! For every positive point in defensive rating he gives it up on the O-side.
With how the FO has handled the last 2 trading deadlines, and how they can't seem to stop talking about every player not on this roster, there is no reason to think that Lonzo wouldn't be mailing it in either! In fact, based on the words from Lavar, seems like Lonzo has already mailed it in on his head coach long ago.
I'm happy the Lakers kept Lonzo, as I think he is generally undervalued in this league, but good god, Lonzo is who Lonzo is......and he wouldn't be turning these losses into wins. |
I don’t think he’s a bad fit with LeBron, at all. I’m not cherry picking, I picked the 2 most recent. Sure, you can assume he would be mailing it in because of the trade talks, but there’s a timeless saying about assuming and it would be wise of you to look it up. I do think he’d be turning some of these losses into wins and I think denying that is nothing less than delusional. |
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The God Particle
Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2196
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | I miss watching a guy who cares on defense. I knew he was important to us on D, but his effect can’t be THIS big, can it? |
Of course not. For anyone to suggest that his impact is this big is fooling themselves.
Zo is a very very good defender for a 2nd year point guard, but his defense in actuality is very overrated now. He is however, projecting to being an elite level defender.
Zo's game doesn't travel. Don't take my word for it, look it up. He's absolutely atrocious on the road. He would have had little to no impact on this road trip and him more than any other player on the roster "would feel" betrayed by the FO. |
He’s an elite defender for a second year player and is already a very very good defender if not elite for anybody. He’s not overrated defensively.
In his last two road games he lead us to a win at OKC and led the team to a comfortable lead at Houston. Good thing I didn’t take your word for it.
I know the team is mailing it in but I still don’t understand how reluctant so many are to give this kid obviously deserved credit as a very impactful player. |
We are literally arguing about the impact a player who is averaging a triple-single would have on this team. One with a shooting slash line of 40/33/42 !!! I won't even post his road side numbers and slash line! Have we already forgotten just how a terrible fit he is with Lebron on the floor?
Cherry picking any single game you want doesn't change any of those stats or the impact of those stats! For every positive point in defensive rating he gives it up on the O-side.
With how the FO has handled the last 2 trading deadlines, and how they can't seem to stop talking about every player not on this roster, there is no reason to think that Lonzo wouldn't be mailing it in either! In fact, based on the words from Lavar, seems like Lonzo has already mailed it in on his head coach long ago.
I'm happy the Lakers kept Lonzo, as I think he is generally undervalued in this league, but good god, Lonzo is who Lonzo is......and he wouldn't be turning these losses into wins. |
I don’t think he’s a bad fit with LeBron, at all. I’m not cherry picking, I picked the 2 most recent. Sure, you can assume he would be mailing it in because of the trade talks, but there’s a timeless saying about assuming and it would be wise of you to look it up. I do think he’d be turning some of these losses into wins and I think denying that is nothing less than delusional. |
He's a terrible fit with Lebron! He's relegated to being a spot-up shooter (the one skill he doesn't have). His points are down from last year, so are his rebounds, and so are his assists, and while I'm at it, so are his FGAs, blocks, and steals from last year. This, in his second year as a pro, where most if not all players are taking a big leap in production over their first year.
The worst thing that could have happened to Lonzo is the signing of Lebron James. It's completely stunted his growth and limited opportunities for growth.
LBJ fans would say Lonzo is the worst possible PG to pair with him.
The two most recent games you cite also happen to be WITHOUT Lebron James. Expecting thatLonzo in a line-up including Lebron is what is delusional. |
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Lovefool
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 May 2017
Posts: 275
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| The God Particle wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | I miss watching a guy who cares on defense. I knew he was important to us on D, but his effect can’t be THIS big, can it? |
Of course not. For anyone to suggest that his impact is this big is fooling themselves.
Zo is a very very good defender for a 2nd year point guard, but his defense in actuality is very overrated now. He is however, projecting to being an elite level defender.
Zo's game doesn't travel. Don't take my word for it, look it up. He's absolutely atrocious on the road. He would have had little to no impact on this road trip and him more than any other player on the roster "would feel" betrayed by the FO. |
He’s an elite defender for a second year player and is already a very very good defender if not elite for anybody. He’s not overrated defensively.
In his last two road games he lead us to a win at OKC and led the team to a comfortable lead at Houston. Good thing I didn’t take your word for it.
I know the team is mailing it in but I still don’t understand how reluctant so many are to give this kid obviously deserved credit as a very impactful player. |
We are literally arguing about the impact a player who is averaging a triple-single would have on this team. One with a shooting slash line of 40/33/42 !!! I won't even post his road side numbers and slash line! Have we already forgotten just how a terrible fit he is with Lebron on the floor?
Cherry picking any single game you want doesn't change any of those stats or the impact of those stats! For every positive point in defensive rating he gives it up on the O-side.
With how the FO has handled the last 2 trading deadlines, and how they can't seem to stop talking about every player not on this roster, there is no reason to think that Lonzo wouldn't be mailing it in either! In fact, based on the words from Lavar, seems like Lonzo has already mailed it in on his head coach long ago.
I'm happy the Lakers kept Lonzo, as I think he is generally undervalued in this league, but good god, Lonzo is who Lonzo is......and he wouldn't be turning these losses into wins. |
We talking about defense and you're pulling out his shooting numbers. Pffft. And no he's not giving up anything offensively. It doesnt work that way. He is not a volume shooter. His defense at the most important position on the court makes a huge difference. And when it comes to fit with Lebron, do you notice they run a pick n roll with each other that's quite effective. Do you watch every game? If you are really bringing stats into a conversation about defense then don't gloss over Zo's 7th ranked defensive rating among all point guards in the game. People can nitpick his offense but on the other end there is no arguement when it comes to his impact. We can't seem to get stops without #2. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| The God Particle wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | I miss watching a guy who cares on defense. I knew he was important to us on D, but his effect can’t be THIS big, can it? |
Of course not. For anyone to suggest that his impact is this big is fooling themselves.
Zo is a very very good defender for a 2nd year point guard, but his defense in actuality is very overrated now. He is however, projecting to being an elite level defender.
Zo's game doesn't travel. Don't take my word for it, look it up. He's absolutely atrocious on the road. He would have had little to no impact on this road trip and him more than any other player on the roster "would feel" betrayed by the FO. |
He’s an elite defender for a second year player and is already a very very good defender if not elite for anybody. He’s not overrated defensively.
In his last two road games he lead us to a win at OKC and led the team to a comfortable lead at Houston. Good thing I didn’t take your word for it.
I know the team is mailing it in but I still don’t understand how reluctant so many are to give this kid obviously deserved credit as a very impactful player. |
We are literally arguing about the impact a player who is averaging a triple-single would have on this team. One with a shooting slash line of 40/33/42 !!! I won't even post his road side numbers and slash line! Have we already forgotten just how a terrible fit he is with Lebron on the floor?
Cherry picking any single game you want doesn't change any of those stats or the impact of those stats! For every positive point in defensive rating he gives it up on the O-side.
With how the FO has handled the last 2 trading deadlines, and how they can't seem to stop talking about every player not on this roster, there is no reason to think that Lonzo wouldn't be mailing it in either! In fact, based on the words from Lavar, seems like Lonzo has already mailed it in on his head coach long ago.
I'm happy the Lakers kept Lonzo, as I think he is generally undervalued in this league, but good god, Lonzo is who Lonzo is......and he wouldn't be turning these losses into wins. |
I don’t think he’s a bad fit with LeBron, at all. I’m not cherry picking, I picked the 2 most recent. Sure, you can assume he would be mailing it in because of the trade talks, but there’s a timeless saying about assuming and it would be wise of you to look it up. I do think he’d be turning some of these losses into wins and I think denying that is nothing less than delusional. |
He's a terrible fit with Lebron! He's relegated to being a spot-up shooter (the one skill he doesn't have). His points are down from last year, so are his rebounds, and so are his assists, and while I'm at it, so are his FGAs, blocks, and steals from last year. This, in his second year as a pro, where most if not all players are taking a big leap in production over their first year.
The worst thing that could have happened to Lonzo is the signing of Lebron James. It's completely stunted his growth and limited opportunities for growth.
LBJ fans would say Lonzo is the worst possible PG to pair with him.
The two most recent games you cite also happen to be WITHOUT Lebron James. Expecting thatLonzo in a line-up including Lebron is what is delusional. |
LeBron hurts his statistical output(who cares) but not his effectiveness or impact as a player IMO. There was undoubtedly an adjustment period and it took Zo too long to get back to 100% which also hurt his play early in the year.
I don’t care what the LBJ fans you are referring to think.
Lonzo and LeBron also had a game where they both had triple doubles. I expect it to take some time but I think it’s very likely that the Lonzo we saw pre injury can coexist with LeBron. I actually think it’s more likely than not. |
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The God Particle
Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2196
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Lovefool wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | I miss watching a guy who cares on defense. I knew he was important to us on D, but his effect can’t be THIS big, can it? |
Of course not. For anyone to suggest that his impact is this big is fooling themselves.
Zo is a very very good defender for a 2nd year point guard, but his defense in actuality is very overrated now. He is however, projecting to being an elite level defender.
Zo's game doesn't travel. Don't take my word for it, look it up. He's absolutely atrocious on the road. He would have had little to no impact on this road trip and him more than any other player on the roster "would feel" betrayed by the FO. |
He’s an elite defender for a second year player and is already a very very good defender if not elite for anybody. He’s not overrated defensively.
In his last two road games he lead us to a win at OKC and led the team to a comfortable lead at Houston. Good thing I didn’t take your word for it.
I know the team is mailing it in but I still don’t understand how reluctant so many are to give this kid obviously deserved credit as a very impactful player. |
We are literally arguing about the impact a player who is averaging a triple-single would have on this team. One with a shooting slash line of 40/33/42 !!! I won't even post his road side numbers and slash line! Have we already forgotten just how a terrible fit he is with Lebron on the floor?
Cherry picking any single game you want doesn't change any of those stats or the impact of those stats! For every positive point in defensive rating he gives it up on the O-side.
With how the FO has handled the last 2 trading deadlines, and how they can't seem to stop talking about every player not on this roster, there is no reason to think that Lonzo wouldn't be mailing it in either! In fact, based on the words from Lavar, seems like Lonzo has already mailed it in on his head coach long ago.
I'm happy the Lakers kept Lonzo, as I think he is generally undervalued in this league, but good god, Lonzo is who Lonzo is......and he wouldn't be turning these losses into wins. |
We talking about defense and you're pulling out his shooting numbers. Pffft. And no he's not giving up anything offensively. It doesnt work that way. He is not a volume shooter. His defense at the most important position on the court makes a huge difference. And when it comes to fit with Lebron, do you notice they run a pick n roll with each other that's quite effective. Do you watch every game? If you are really bringing stats into a conversation about defense then don't gloss over Zo's 7th ranked defensive rating among all point guards in the game. People can nitpick his offense but on the other end there is no arguement when it comes to his impact. We can't seem to get stops without #2. |
Unfortunately in the NBA, unlike the NFL, if you're on the court, you have to play offense and defense. So yes, all's fair...
I watch every single game without fail. In fact, like many of us here, you can find me in just about every game thread watching the games live along with many on this board commenting on the games.
We're playing like absolute dog (bleep), and we're getting blown out in multiple games and losing to the lowly Hawks,and all of this with the best player in the NBA back, and some of you are in here arguing that Lonzo would have turned some of these losses into wins. 
Last edited by The God Particle on Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| The God Particle wrote: | | Lovefool wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | I miss watching a guy who cares on defense. I knew he was important to us on D, but his effect can’t be THIS big, can it? |
Of course not. For anyone to suggest that his impact is this big is fooling themselves.
Zo is a very very good defender for a 2nd year point guard, but his defense in actuality is very overrated now. He is however, projecting to being an elite level defender.
Zo's game doesn't travel. Don't take my word for it, look it up. He's absolutely atrocious on the road. He would have had little to no impact on this road trip and him more than any other player on the roster "would feel" betrayed by the FO. |
He’s an elite defender for a second year player and is already a very very good defender if not elite for anybody. He’s not overrated defensively.
In his last two road games he lead us to a win at OKC and led the team to a comfortable lead at Houston. Good thing I didn’t take your word for it.
I know the team is mailing it in but I still don’t understand how reluctant so many are to give this kid obviously deserved credit as a very impactful player. |
We are literally arguing about the impact a player who is averaging a triple-single would have on this team. One with a shooting slash line of 40/33/42 !!! I won't even post his road side numbers and slash line! Have we already forgotten just how a terrible fit he is with Lebron on the floor?
Cherry picking any single game you want doesn't change any of those stats or the impact of those stats! For every positive point in defensive rating he gives it up on the O-side.
With how the FO has handled the last 2 trading deadlines, and how they can't seem to stop talking about every player not on this roster, there is no reason to think that Lonzo wouldn't be mailing it in either! In fact, based on the words from Lavar, seems like Lonzo has already mailed it in on his head coach long ago.
I'm happy the Lakers kept Lonzo, as I think he is generally undervalued in this league, but good god, Lonzo is who Lonzo is......and he wouldn't be turning these losses into wins. |
We talking about defense and you're pulling out his shooting numbers. Pffft. And no he's not giving up anything offensively. It doesnt work that way. He is not a volume shooter. His defense at the most important position on the court makes a huge difference. And when it comes to fit with Lebron, do you notice they run a pick n roll with each other that's quite effective. Do you watch every game? If you are really bringing stats into a conversation about defense then don't gloss over Zo's 7th ranked defensive rating among all point guards in the game. People can nitpick his offense but on the other end there is no arguement when it comes to his impact. We can't seem to get stops without #2. |
Unfortunately in the NBA, unlike the NFL, if you're on the court, you have to play offense and defense. So yes, all's fair...
I watch every single game without fail. In fact, like many of us here, you can find me in just about every game thread watching the games life along with many on this board commenting on the games.
We're playing like absolute dog (bleep), and we're getting blown out in multiple games and losing to the lowly Hawks,and all of this with the best player in the NBA back, and some of you are in here arguing that Lonzo would have turned some of these losses into wins. |
Not too funny considering we were competing with some of the top teams in the West with Lonzo and without LeBron pre injury. |
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VicXLakers
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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it's a pipe dream to think one player could turn this team around...I'm not even sure how much a different coach would matter  |
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Treble Clef
Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23912
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | Lovefool wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | I miss watching a guy who cares on defense. I knew he was important to us on D, but his effect can’t be THIS big, can it? |
Of course not. For anyone to suggest that his impact is this big is fooling themselves.
Zo is a very very good defender for a 2nd year point guard, but his defense in actuality is very overrated now. He is however, projecting to being an elite level defender.
Zo's game doesn't travel. Don't take my word for it, look it up. He's absolutely atrocious on the road. He would have had little to no impact on this road trip and him more than any other player on the roster "would feel" betrayed by the FO. |
He’s an elite defender for a second year player and is already a very very good defender if not elite for anybody. He’s not overrated defensively.
In his last two road games he lead us to a win at OKC and led the team to a comfortable lead at Houston. Good thing I didn’t take your word for it.
I know the team is mailing it in but I still don’t understand how reluctant so many are to give this kid obviously deserved credit as a very impactful player. |
We are literally arguing about the impact a player who is averaging a triple-single would have on this team. One with a shooting slash line of 40/33/42 !!! I won't even post his road side numbers and slash line! Have we already forgotten just how a terrible fit he is with Lebron on the floor?
Cherry picking any single game you want doesn't change any of those stats or the impact of those stats! For every positive point in defensive rating he gives it up on the O-side.
With how the FO has handled the last 2 trading deadlines, and how they can't seem to stop talking about every player not on this roster, there is no reason to think that Lonzo wouldn't be mailing it in either! In fact, based on the words from Lavar, seems like Lonzo has already mailed it in on his head coach long ago.
I'm happy the Lakers kept Lonzo, as I think he is generally undervalued in this league, but good god, Lonzo is who Lonzo is......and he wouldn't be turning these losses into wins. |
We talking about defense and you're pulling out his shooting numbers. Pffft. And no he's not giving up anything offensively. It doesnt work that way. He is not a volume shooter. His defense at the most important position on the court makes a huge difference. And when it comes to fit with Lebron, do you notice they run a pick n roll with each other that's quite effective. Do you watch every game? If you are really bringing stats into a conversation about defense then don't gloss over Zo's 7th ranked defensive rating among all point guards in the game. People can nitpick his offense but on the other end there is no arguement when it comes to his impact. We can't seem to get stops without #2. |
Unfortunately in the NBA, unlike the NFL, if you're on the court, you have to play offense and defense. So yes, all's fair...
I watch every single game without fail. In fact, like many of us here, you can find me in just about every game thread watching the games life along with many on this board commenting on the games.
We're playing like absolute dog (bleep), and we're getting blown out in multiple games and losing to the lowly Hawks,and all of this with the best player in the NBA back, and some of you are in here arguing that Lonzo would have turned some of these losses into wins. |
Not too funny considering we were competing with some of the top teams in the West with Lonzo and without LeBron pre injury. |
He was on the court for the bad losses to the Knicks and Cavs, too. They proved they were capable of losing games like that even with a healthy Lonzo. |
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The God Particle
Star Player
Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2196
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | Lovefool wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | I miss watching a guy who cares on defense. I knew he was important to us on D, but his effect can’t be THIS big, can it? |
Of course not. For anyone to suggest that his impact is this big is fooling themselves.
Zo is a very very good defender for a 2nd year point guard, but his defense in actuality is very overrated now. He is however, projecting to being an elite level defender.
Zo's game doesn't travel. Don't take my word for it, look it up. He's absolutely atrocious on the road. He would have had little to no impact on this road trip and him more than any other player on the roster "would feel" betrayed by the FO. |
He’s an elite defender for a second year player and is already a very very good defender if not elite for anybody. He’s not overrated defensively.
In his last two road games he lead us to a win at OKC and led the team to a comfortable lead at Houston. Good thing I didn’t take your word for it.
I know the team is mailing it in but I still don’t understand how reluctant so many are to give this kid obviously deserved credit as a very impactful player. |
We are literally arguing about the impact a player who is averaging a triple-single would have on this team. One with a shooting slash line of 40/33/42 !!! I won't even post his road side numbers and slash line! Have we already forgotten just how a terrible fit he is with Lebron on the floor?
Cherry picking any single game you want doesn't change any of those stats or the impact of those stats! For every positive point in defensive rating he gives it up on the O-side.
With how the FO has handled the last 2 trading deadlines, and how they can't seem to stop talking about every player not on this roster, there is no reason to think that Lonzo wouldn't be mailing it in either! In fact, based on the words from Lavar, seems like Lonzo has already mailed it in on his head coach long ago.
I'm happy the Lakers kept Lonzo, as I think he is generally undervalued in this league, but good god, Lonzo is who Lonzo is......and he wouldn't be turning these losses into wins. |
We talking about defense and you're pulling out his shooting numbers. Pffft. And no he's not giving up anything offensively. It doesnt work that way. He is not a volume shooter. His defense at the most important position on the court makes a huge difference. And when it comes to fit with Lebron, do you notice they run a pick n roll with each other that's quite effective. Do you watch every game? If you are really bringing stats into a conversation about defense then don't gloss over Zo's 7th ranked defensive rating among all point guards in the game. People can nitpick his offense but on the other end there is no arguement when it comes to his impact. We can't seem to get stops without #2. |
Unfortunately in the NBA, unlike the NFL, if you're on the court, you have to play offense and defense. So yes, all's fair...
I watch every single game without fail. In fact, like many of us here, you can find me in just about every game thread watching the games life along with many on this board commenting on the games.
We're playing like absolute dog (bleep), and we're getting blown out in multiple games and losing to the lowly Hawks,and all of this with the best player in the NBA back, and some of you are in here arguing that Lonzo would have turned some of these losses into wins. |
Not too funny considering we were competing with some of the top teams in the West with Lonzo and without LeBron pre injury. |
BigHameJames, please stop, you're making a fool out of yourself. There you go again cherry picking games...
The fact is the Lakers were 5-8 with Lonzo Ball "leading" us in Lebron's absence. This included losses to the New York Knicks and Cleveland Cavaliers, AT HOME.
That we "competed" (in a loss) with Houston in his last game doesn't make those losses go away or that 5-8 record any better!
STOP!
I'll give Lonzo this...he played his best ball of the season during that span, and it's no coincidence that it happened in Lebron's absence. But that 5-8 record also goes to show you the minimal impact he makes (at this stage in career) to wins and losses! |
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BigBallerBrand
Star Player
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 5802
Location: LA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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Any update on the injury? Still no timetable?
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Inverse
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2014
Posts: 2066
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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The team clearly misses Zo but he’s not the solution to all of our problems. The team is just unraveling. The ASB couldn’t have came at a better time
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | Lovefool wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | I miss watching a guy who cares on defense. I knew he was important to us on D, but his effect can’t be THIS big, can it? |
Of course not. For anyone to suggest that his impact is this big is fooling themselves.
Zo is a very very good defender for a 2nd year point guard, but his defense in actuality is very overrated now. He is however, projecting to being an elite level defender.
Zo's game doesn't travel. Don't take my word for it, look it up. He's absolutely atrocious on the road. He would have had little to no impact on this road trip and him more than any other player on the roster "would feel" betrayed by the FO. |
He’s an elite defender for a second year player and is already a very very good defender if not elite for anybody. He’s not overrated defensively.
In his last two road games he lead us to a win at OKC and led the team to a comfortable lead at Houston. Good thing I didn’t take your word for it.
I know the team is mailing it in but I still don’t understand how reluctant so many are to give this kid obviously deserved credit as a very impactful player. |
We are literally arguing about the impact a player who is averaging a triple-single would have on this team. One with a shooting slash line of 40/33/42 !!! I won't even post his road side numbers and slash line! Have we already forgotten just how a terrible fit he is with Lebron on the floor?
Cherry picking any single game you want doesn't change any of those stats or the impact of those stats! For every positive point in defensive rating he gives it up on the O-side.
With how the FO has handled the last 2 trading deadlines, and how they can't seem to stop talking about every player not on this roster, there is no reason to think that Lonzo wouldn't be mailing it in either! In fact, based on the words from Lavar, seems like Lonzo has already mailed it in on his head coach long ago.
I'm happy the Lakers kept Lonzo, as I think he is generally undervalued in this league, but good god, Lonzo is who Lonzo is......and he wouldn't be turning these losses into wins. |
We talking about defense and you're pulling out his shooting numbers. Pffft. And no he's not giving up anything offensively. It doesnt work that way. He is not a volume shooter. His defense at the most important position on the court makes a huge difference. And when it comes to fit with Lebron, do you notice they run a pick n roll with each other that's quite effective. Do you watch every game? If you are really bringing stats into a conversation about defense then don't gloss over Zo's 7th ranked defensive rating among all point guards in the game. People can nitpick his offense but on the other end there is no arguement when it comes to his impact. We can't seem to get stops without #2. |
Unfortunately in the NBA, unlike the NFL, if you're on the court, you have to play offense and defense. So yes, all's fair...
I watch every single game without fail. In fact, like many of us here, you can find me in just about every game thread watching the games life along with many on this board commenting on the games.
We're playing like absolute dog (bleep), and we're getting blown out in multiple games and losing to the lowly Hawks,and all of this with the best player in the NBA back, and some of you are in here arguing that Lonzo would have turned some of these losses into wins. |
Not too funny considering we were competing with some of the top teams in the West with Lonzo and without LeBron pre injury. |
He was on the court for the bad losses to the Knicks and Cavs, too. They proved they were capable of losing games like that even with a healthy Lonzo. |
I’m aware. Here’s some out of context numbers but point towards his value.
In 12 games(excluding the Rockets game) with Zo and without Bron they were a -35 which is an average of just under -3 per game. They were losing by 1 shot per game.
In 5 games with Bron and without Zo they are a -65 which is an average of -13 per game.
If you include the Rockets game before he got hurt Zos numbers are even better. I’m not insinuating Zo is anywhere near the level of player as LeBron, that would be asinine, but his impact is clear. Yes, they’ve played better competition and trade rumors clearly had an impact and that should be taken into context but those numbers are still staggering. |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| The God Particle wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | Lovefool wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | The God Particle wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | I miss watching a guy who cares on defense. I knew he was important to us on D, but his effect can’t be THIS big, can it? |
Of course not. For anyone to suggest that his impact is this big is fooling themselves.
Zo is a very very good defender for a 2nd year point guard, but his defense in actuality is very overrated now. He is however, projecting to being an elite level defender.
Zo's game doesn't travel. Don't take my word for it, look it up. He's absolutely atrocious on the road. He would have had little to no impact on this road trip and him more than any other player on the roster "would feel" betrayed by the FO. |
He’s an elite defender for a second year player and is already a very very good defender if not elite for anybody. He’s not overrated defensively.
In his last two road games he lead us to a win at OKC and led the team to a comfortable lead at Houston. Good thing I didn’t take your word for it.
I know the team is mailing it in but I still don’t understand how reluctant so many are to give this kid obviously deserved credit as a very impactful player. |
We are literally arguing about the impact a player who is averaging a triple-single would have on this team. One with a shooting slash line of 40/33/42 !!! I won't even post his road side numbers and slash line! Have we already forgotten just how a terrible fit he is with Lebron on the floor?
Cherry picking any single game you want doesn't change any of those stats or the impact of those stats! For every positive point in defensive rating he gives it up on the O-side.
With how the FO has handled the last 2 trading deadlines, and how they can't seem to stop talking about every player not on this roster, there is no reason to think that Lonzo wouldn't be mailing it in either! In fact, based on the words from Lavar, seems like Lonzo has already mailed it in on his head coach long ago.
I'm happy the Lakers kept Lonzo, as I think he is generally undervalued in this league, but good god, Lonzo is who Lonzo is......and he wouldn't be turning these losses into wins. |
We talking about defense and you're pulling out his shooting numbers. Pffft. And no he's not giving up anything offensively. It doesnt work that way. He is not a volume shooter. His defense at the most important position on the court makes a huge difference. And when it comes to fit with Lebron, do you notice they run a pick n roll with each other that's quite effective. Do you watch every game? If you are really bringing stats into a conversation about defense then don't gloss over Zo's 7th ranked defensive rating among all point guards in the game. People can nitpick his offense but on the other end there is no arguement when it comes to his impact. We can't seem to get stops without #2. |
Unfortunately in the NBA, unlike the NFL, if you're on the court, you have to play offense and defense. So yes, all's fair...
I watch every single game without fail. In fact, like many of us here, you can find me in just about every game thread watching the games life along with many on this board commenting on the games.
We're playing like absolute dog (bleep), and we're getting blown out in multiple games and losing to the lowly Hawks,and all of this with the best player in the NBA back, and some of you are in here arguing that Lonzo would have turned some of these losses into wins. |
Not too funny considering we were competing with some of the top teams in the West with Lonzo and without LeBron pre injury. |
BigHameJames, please stop, you're making a fool out of yourself. There you go again cherry picking games...
The fact is the Lakers were 5-8 with Lonzo Ball "leading" us in Lebron's absence. This included losses to the New York Knicks and Cleveland Cavaliers, AT HOME.
That we "competed" (in a loss) with Houston in his last game doesn't make those losses go away or that 5-8 record any better!
STOP!
I'll give Lonzo this...he played his best ball of the season during that span, and it's no coincidence that it happened in Lebron's absence. But that 5-8 record also goes to show you the minimal impact he makes (at this stage in career) to wins and losses! |
I’m not at all. They were up by like 15 against Houston when he got hurt. They were 5-7 on way to 6-7 when he got hurt. On the road against a top WC team. That 5-8 record shows LEBRONS impact not Zos lack there of. |
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BlackStarMamba
Star Player
Joined: 29 May 2018
Posts: 1377
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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its sad when a team with Lebron James is asking for Lonzo Ball to come back so they dont miss the playoffs..lol
and to think Lakers tried to trade him twice this season
after they gave up DLo for him
tells a lot about how the organization is being run.
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ShowtimeReturns
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Joined: 21 Oct 2017
Posts: 1065
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Inverse wrote: | | The team clearly misses Zo but he’s not the solution to all of our problems. The team is just unraveling. The ASB couldn’t have came at a better time |
This is a better team with Lonzo.His impact on defense is huge. He was playing his best on the offensive side of his career before he went down. They really need him for this playoff run. |
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Ziggy
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12714
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Lonzo is a disruptor on defense. Even if he isn't getting steals, he leads the team in deflections and creates fastbreak opportunities. We haven't been getting a lot of easy baskets since he's been out. It's hard to quantify his impact but it's obvious he helps the team. |
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Stumpy25
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Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ShowtimeReturns wrote: | | Inverse wrote: | | The team clearly misses Zo but he’s not the solution to all of our problems. The team is just unraveling. The ASB couldn’t have came at a better time |
This is a better team with Lonzo.His impact on defense is huge. He was playing his best on the offensive side of his career before he went down. They really need him for this playoff run. |
The way our medical staff works I think he will be back in late April. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | I’m not at all. They were up by like 15 against Houston when he got hurt. They were 5-7 on way to 6-7 when he got hurt. On the road against a top WC team. That 5-8 record shows LEBRONS impact not Zos lack there of. |
I agree with you on this. We had a poorly constructed roster that was ill-equipped to function without Lebron. When a Lebron and Rondo went out, Ball struggled at first. By the end, he was playing well enough to impress a skeptic like me. The tide was turning, though the schedule was about to get nasty.
By the way, I sure wish both of you would cut down your quote trees. |
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Dr. Funkbot
Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 8188
Location: Eagle Rock
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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AH- you got it. The team was shell shocked when LeBron went down. It is a big changes since so much of the offense went through him. Then just when they had figured it out and started winning games- BAM Zo goes down.
The freaking injuries this team has had over the past 4 years are just incredible. You can see how long I have been on LG but my fandom goes back to Showtime. The only semi-comparable instance is when Riley blew out Magic and Byron's hammy's in the playoffs by running them to death. And even that only happened that one year. Our recent years long stretches of injury woes is absolutely unprecedented.
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JerryWest_44
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Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 25430
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Will Zo be at the rising stars introduction of players? |
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1311176
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Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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I think the problem with Zo being out is that the Lakers lacking someone that could trigger the identity of the team.
At the beginning of the season, we are a defense 1st then run run run while slowly gets adjusting with LBJ.
And then LBJ and Rondo going down, we kind of panicked but we still have our identity. Maybe we were not very good but we still could see what Luke and the guys trying to play.
With Zo going down, LBJ still not 100% coming back from injury we are back to square 1 trying to find our way now.
With the way the rosters now we are back to last year Cavs with a worse Lebron and way worse shooters AND our Defense going out of the windows. |
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LakersNewEra
Star Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2014
Posts: 1526
Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:47 am Post subject: |
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There's so many good intangibles that ZO has. He really is a bit like Draymond Green, a super role player. He does need to score better thouvh not just his shooting, I'd also like to see him drive to the basket better, absorb contact etc...
Cant have those games where he scores 4 points on 1-9 shooting. |
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RI Laker
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7156
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | | Lonzo is a disruptor on defense. Even if he isn't getting steals, he leads the team in deflections and creates fastbreak opportunities. We haven't been getting a lot of easy baskets since he's been out. It's hard to quantify his impact but it's obvious he helps the team. |
Exactly! I will add that his D helps mask deficiencies of the team as a whole. I love how his D takes an extra 5 seconds off the shot clock (which is an eternity). |
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jg77
Starting Rotation
Joined: 19 Feb 2015
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| He's become vastly overrated while he's been injured. I'd probably keep him out the entire season since it seems like his absence is increasing his trade value. |
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