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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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 Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | No attack, just an observation that has become very obvious. |
No, it was absolutely an attack. You know that. If you can't respond in a civil fashion, just skip my posts. |
I was being civil. You(and many others) often search for things to criticize especially when he’s playing well. Acknowledging that is not an attack. |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
But dlo didnt play equally or better. he played slightly worse offensively speaking. which is why he shot under 50% while zo shot over 50%. dlos assist only work if his teammates makes shots and they dont have another assist guy on that team. so if there are any assist to have he's going to have them all just about. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
But dlo didnt play equally or better. he played slightly worse offensively speaking. which is why he shot under 50% while zo shot over 50%. dlos assist only work if his teammates makes shots and they dont have another assist guy on that team. so if there are any assist to have he's going to have them all just about. |
Na DLO was better, only slightly but still better. |
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PauPau
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 844
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:40 am Post subject: |
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With Lonzo Ball I've tried in vain
How can mere words my heart explain
This taste of winning so deep so true
I've found in you
So many reasons in so many ways
My life has just begun
Need you forever, I need you to stay
You are the one, the next LeBron.
I like this song. |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| george w kush wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
When he can do it for a 10 game stretch instead of having 1 great game and following it up with 5 mediocre/bad ones I’ll give him some props. |
well dont hold your breath. he's not an offensive minded guy like that. so maybe 2 years from now he may be able to pull that off but even then its going to be in a low scoring affair. or lower than 20 and change. |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | splashmtn wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
But dlo didnt play equally or better. he played slightly worse offensively speaking. which is why he shot under 50% while zo shot over 50%. dlos assist only work if his teammates makes shots and they dont have another assist guy on that team. so if there are any assist to have he's going to have them all just about. |
Na DLO was better, only slightly but still better. |
No he wasnt.
Dlo shot below 50%, zo shot well over 50%. what part of better is that? and Zo is dlo's man. so dlo as usual didnt guard his man. dlo got assists because he and maybe dimw are the only two passer assist guys on the team. zo plays with like 5 passing guys. and they were bricking their shots last night. you can't get an assist unless the other guy makes the shot. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | splashmtn wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
But dlo didnt play equally or better. he played slightly worse offensively speaking. which is why he shot under 50% while zo shot over 50%. dlos assist only work if his teammates makes shots and they dont have another assist guy on that team. so if there are any assist to have he's going to have them all just about. |
Na DLO was better, only slightly but still better. |
No he wasnt.
Dlo shot below 50%, zo shot well over 50%. what part of better is that? and Zo is dlo's man. so dlo as usual didnt guard his man. dlo got assists because he and maybe dimw are the only two passer assist guys on the team. zo plays with like 5 passing guys. and they were bricking their shots last night. you can't get an assist unless the other guy makes the shot. |
I understand all that but 22/13 with the dagger to end it. His defense wasn’t good, Zos was better but certainly not great either. Zo was good but DLO was better last night, nothing wrong with that. |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Concerns by LG at the start of the season and his slow start (coming off of injury):
1. Be aggressive, be be aggressive. Be engaged offensively.
Status: He's been consistent these days in this aspect.
2. Attack the rim and convert.
Status: He's getting to and converting at the rim better than last year.
Restricted area:
2017-18: 80/167 (47.9%)
2018-19: 57/094 (60.6%)
3. Take and hit your 3s
Status: He's streaky. He will go games without hitting a 3 and then go games with multiple 3s. Consistency is something he'll need to improve on.
2017-18: LCorner: 4/21 (19.0%), RCorner: 5/16 (31.3%), AboveBreak: 80/254 (31.5%)
2018-19: LCorner: 4/15 (26.7%), RCorner: 3/13 (23.1%), AboveBreak: 37/108 (34.3%)
His corner 3s are very bad. But I'm encouraged by his above the break 3s.
4. Take and hit your FTs
Status: There is slight improvement in %, but still very bad at the line.
2017-18: 0.6/1.4 (45.1%)
2018-19: 0.5/0.9 (51.9%)
Overall status:
Not even mentioning his defense or other aspects of the offense that I like, regarding these 4 things above, I'm overall pleased to see the improvement that he's making with the RA shots and the above the break 3s as well as his engagement on offense. There definitely needs to be more improvement, no question. The FTs and corner 3s need work. And I believe he can improve. |
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ItsJustMagic
Sixth Man
Joined: 07 Nov 2017
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | No attack, just an observation that has become very obvious. |
No, it was absolutely an attack. You know that. If you can't respond in a civil fashion, just skip my posts. |
It seemed like a fair observation to me based on your positing history. |
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PauPau
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 844
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | Concerns by LG at the start of the season and his slow start (coming off of injury):
1. Be aggressive, be be aggressive. Be engaged offensively.
Status: He's been consistent these days in this aspect.
2. Attack the rim and convert.
Status: He's getting to and converting at the rim better than last year.
Restricted area:
2017-18: 80/167 (47.9%)
2018-19: 57/094 (60.6%)
3. Take and hit your 3s
Status: He's streaky. He will go games without hitting a 3 and then go games with multiple 3s. Consistency is something he'll need to improve on.
2017-18: LCorner: 4/21 (19.0%), RCorner: 5/16 (31.3%), AboveBreak: 80/254 (31.5%)
2018-19: LCorner: 4/15 (26.7%), RCorner: 3/13 (23.1%), AboveBreak: 37/108 (34.3%)
His corner 3s are very bad. But I'm encouraged by his above the break 3s.
4. Take and hit your FTs
Status: There is slight improvement in %, but still very bad at the line.
2017-18: 0.6/1.4 (45.1%)
2018-19: 0.5/0.9 (51.9%)
Overall status:
Not even mentioning his defense or other aspects of the offense that I like, regarding these 4 things above, I'm overall pleased to see the improvement that he's making with the RA shots and the above the break 3s as well as his engagement on offense. There definitely needs to be more improvement, no question. The FTs and corner 3s need work. And I believe he can improve. |
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saetarubia
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 6208
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | Concerns by LG at the start of the season and his slow start (coming off of injury):
1. Be aggressive, be be aggressive. Be engaged offensively.
Status: He's been consistent these days in this aspect.
2. Attack the rim and convert.
Status: He's getting to and converting at the rim better than last year.
Restricted area:
2017-18: 80/167 (47.9%)
2018-19: 57/094 (60.6%)
3. Take and hit your 3s
Status: He's streaky. He will go games without hitting a 3 and then go games with multiple 3s. Consistency is something he'll need to improve on.
2017-18: LCorner: 4/21 (19.0%), RCorner: 5/16 (31.3%), AboveBreak: 80/254 (31.5%)
2018-19: LCorner: 4/15 (26.7%), RCorner: 3/13 (23.1%), AboveBreak: 37/108 (34.3%)
His corner 3s are very bad. But I'm encouraged by his above the break 3s.
4. Take and hit your FTs
Status: There is slight improvement in %, but still very bad at the line.
2017-18: 0.6/1.4 (45.1%)
2018-19: 0.5/0.9 (51.9%)
Overall status:
Not even mentioning his defense or other aspects of the offense that I like, regarding these 4 things above, I'm overall pleased to see the improvement that he's making with the RA shots and the above the break 3s as well as his engagement on offense. There definitely needs to be more improvement, no question. The FTs and corner 3s need work. And I believe he can improve. |
Quality post. Weird he's struggling from corner threes as they are the shortest distance. But that will be easier to fix I guess rather than a player lacking range.
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saetarubia
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16225
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| ItsJustMagic wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | No attack, just an observation that has become very obvious. |
No, it was absolutely an attack. You know that. If you can't respond in a civil fashion, just skip my posts. |
It seemed like a fair observation to me based on your positing history. |
Aren't some personal attacks fair observations as well? |
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CervantesRises
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 3918
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:32 am Post subject: |
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I think asking him to play 40+ minutes is a lot with his style of defense and I thought he played well.
I think that we only had 17 minutes of rim protection due to Javale being sick the past 2 games...and really the entire road trip...and that enabled the Wiz and Nets to take it to us.
After the debacle in Houston...I thought Zo played really well and if we have Javale we come home 2-2.
We're missing 4 guys...2 starters...our backup PG...and a guy that can fill it up when our O is sluggish. Hard to compete on the road when that's the case and we're forced to play small ball for more than a couple of minutes here and there.
Losing sucks...but these last 2 are losses of attrition not poor performance...McGee and TC are crucial to our success...I think we can all agree on that.
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ItsJustMagic wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | No attack, just an observation that has become very obvious. |
No, it was absolutely an attack. You know that. If you can't respond in a civil fashion, just skip my posts. |
It seemed like a fair observation to me based on your positing history. |
Aren't some personal attacks fair observations as well? |
Yes.
But how is what I said an attack? I said certain posters search for reasons to criticize him. You may say certain posters search for reasons to praise him. Neither are attacks just observations. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144587
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Lonzo-Lite wrote: | | Good offensive game from Lonzo. His defense... not so much tonight. The whole team played bad defense including him. But I hope he retains his confidence on his shot and keep improving his shooting touch. |
Agree, it isn’t normal to have to be critical of his defense. Really nice offensive game last night.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144587
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| al242 wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
Guarantee he will have a horrible game vs Pelicans, he is inconsistent and his shot is broken. He is wayyy too inconsistent and not a starting PG on a contending team. |
We will need a good defensive game against Jrue.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ItsJustMagic wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | No attack, just an observation that has become very obvious. |
No, it was absolutely an attack. You know that. If you can't respond in a civil fashion, just skip my posts. |
It seemed like a fair observation to me based on your positing history. |
You can just skip my posts, too. As a rule of thumb, if you are addressing the person and not the substance, you're probably on the wrong side of the line. |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | splashmtn wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | splashmtn wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | So how about it Lonzo doubters? your big gripe is his offense sucks- Vs. the Nets it was pretty good.
Care to give him props for one game at least? or be safe and hedge the compliment by pointing out Dlo played equal to or "better".? |
But dlo didnt play equally or better. he played slightly worse offensively speaking. which is why he shot under 50% while zo shot over 50%. dlos assist only work if his teammates makes shots and they dont have another assist guy on that team. so if there are any assist to have he's going to have them all just about. |
Na DLO was better, only slightly but still better. |
No he wasnt.
Dlo shot below 50%, zo shot well over 50%. what part of better is that? and Zo is dlo's man. so dlo as usual didnt guard his man. dlo got assists because he and maybe dimw are the only two passer assist guys on the team. zo plays with like 5 passing guys. and they were bricking their shots last night. you can't get an assist unless the other guy makes the shot. |
I understand all that but 22/13 with the dagger to end it. His defense wasn’t good, Zos was better but certainly not great either. Zo was good but DLO was better last night, nothing wrong with that. |
just because a guy has some box score stuff you have to put into context. his team hit more open shots than the lakers. therefore he had more assists. and again its only him and Dimw passing the ball for assists everyone else is there to finish their plays. zo is on a team with multiple assist guys. on top of the fact his teammates were not hitting their open looks. so the assist in that scenario are not a sign of a guy playing better than the other. he was lucky to be on the team making the open shot. the only way you say those assists were all his and not his teammates is if he threw PERFECTLY timed dimes to them where they almost couldnt miss. that was not the case. he thru regular passes to them and they took and made open shots.
so back to points. dlo is a known scorer zo is not. think about that. the layup blower, the 3pt airballer. dropped 20 and change on your head. that not only means you play little defense, it means you dont play defense at all. we're talking about DLO. Zo played ok defense and made sure dlo was under 50%. thats all you can do. Zo shot well over 50.
you cant give one guy the better game just because he hit a dagger and had similar point totals. when you just admitted he played ZERO defense. there's two sides to the ball. dlo only chose to play one side. the only time you can be better than a two way person is if you darn near double the person in points. like a james harden type. his man drops 25, and james drops 50(i know free throws but this is an example of a one way player that can still end up better than a 2 way player.) |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| 55 wrote: | | He’s coming into his own. Don’t know if it really was the knee issue to start the season, but he definitely has a hop to his step lately and I love his aggressiveness. |
it was the knee issue, and a lack of leg strength/stamina/conditioning. basketball is all about running, jumping, stopping on a dime, accelerating, etc. you need your wheels. he had a bad wheel and didnt have a chance to strengthen either of his wheels. lets not even talk about all the basic skills stuff he couldnt do due to his leg issues.
give me zo after two full summers and most of the season without injuries and i think we may have us a full on two way guy. |
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Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | Concerns by LG at the start of the season and his slow start (coming off of injury):
1. Be aggressive, be be aggressive. Be engaged offensively.
Status: He's been consistent these days in this aspect.
I would say "more consistent" rather than consistent, but I would agree that he has fewer patches where he just stands around and watches.
2. Attack the rim and convert.
Status: He's getting to and converting at the rim better than last year.
Restricted area:
2017-18: 80/167 (47.9%)
2018-19: 57/094 (60.6%)
Making more, yes. Taking more, not really. I don't know the source of your numbers (though I'm sure they're accurate), but if you divide by games played, he's down this year. If you adjust for minutes played, it looks about dead even.
3. Take and hit your 3s
Status: He's streaky. He will go games without hitting a 3 and then go games with multiple 3s. Consistency is something he'll need to improve on.
2017-18: LCorner: 4/21 (19.0%), RCorner: 5/16 (31.3%), AboveBreak: 80/254 (31.5%)
2018-19: LCorner: 4/15 (26.7%), RCorner: 3/13 (23.1%), AboveBreak: 37/108 (34.3%)
His corner 3s are very bad. But I'm encouraged by his above the break 3s.
If you adjust for games played, his corner three attempts are way up and his above the break threes are way down. But he still takes the vast bulk of his threes from above the break. If he could get his accuracy up to about 36%, I would say that he was making progress. But the trend has been in the opposite direction, notwithstanding last night.
4. Take and hit your FTs
Status: There is slight improvement in %, but still very bad at the line.
2017-18: 0.6/1.4 (45.1%)
2018-19: 0.5/0.9 (51.9%)
Yes, but I find it even more irritating that he is so poor at drawing fouls. He doesn't need to go Harden mode, but come on. Fouls can affect games even if you don't make the FTs.
Overall status:
Not even mentioning his defense or other aspects of the offense that I like, regarding these 4 things above, I'm overall pleased to see the improvement that he's making with the RA shots and the above the break 3s as well as his engagement on offense. There definitely needs to be more improvement, no question. The FTs and corner 3s need work. And I believe he can improve. |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | epak wrote: | Concerns by LG at the start of the season and his slow start (coming off of injury):
1. Be aggressive, be be aggressive. Be engaged offensively.
Status: He's been consistent these days in this aspect.
AH: I would say "more consistent" rather than consistent, but I would agree that he has fewer patches where he just stands around and watches.
epak: sure
2. Attack the rim and convert.
Status: He's getting to and converting at the rim better than last year.
Restricted area:
2017-18: 80/167 (47.9%)
2018-19: 57/094 (60.6%)
AH: Making more, yes. Taking more, not really. I don't know the source of your numbers (though I'm sure they're accurate), but if you divide by games played, he's down this year. If you adjust for minutes played, it looks about dead even.
epak: True, good point. But that ~12% increase is nice right?
3. Take and hit your 3s
Status: He's streaky. He will go games without hitting a 3 and then go games with multiple 3s. Consistency is something he'll need to improve on.
2017-18: LCorner: 4/21 (19.0%), RCorner: 5/16 (31.3%), AboveBreak: 80/254 (31.5%)
2018-19: LCorner: 4/15 (26.7%), RCorner: 3/13 (23.1%), AboveBreak: 37/108 (34.3%)
His corner 3s are very bad. But I'm encouraged by his above the break 3s.
AH: If you adjust for games played, his corner three attempts are way up and his above the break threes are way down. But he still takes the vast bulk of his threes from above the break. If he could get his accuracy up to about 36%, I would say that he was making progress. But the trend has been in the opposite direction, notwithstanding last night.
epak: ok
4. Take and hit your FTs
Status: There is slight improvement in %, but still very bad at the line.
2017-18: 0.6/1.4 (45.1%)
2018-19: 0.5/0.9 (51.9%)
AH: Yes, but I find it even more irritating that he is so poor at drawing fouls. He doesn't need to go Harden mode, but come on. Fouls can affect games even if you don't make the FTs.
epak: ok
Overall status:
Not even mentioning his defense or other aspects of the offense that I like, regarding these 4 things above, I'm overall pleased to see the improvement that he's making with the RA shots and the above the break 3s as well as his engagement on offense. There definitely needs to be more improvement, no question. The FTs and corner 3s need work. And I believe he can improve. |
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Yep. Still overall pleased. |
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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16225
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ItsJustMagic wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | No attack, just an observation that has become very obvious. |
No, it was absolutely an attack. You know that. If you can't respond in a civil fashion, just skip my posts. |
It seemed like a fair observation to me based on your positing history. |
Aren't some personal attacks fair observations as well? |
Yes.
But how is what I said an attack? I said certain posters search for reasons to criticize him. You may say certain posters search for reasons to praise him. Neither are attacks just observations. |
Or just stick to debating the point? Were you not able to debate the points with this poster?
I could make an observation that the sky is blue today when I look out the window. It's not a personal attack, but not relevant either.
And that's not an observation - it's an accusation. |
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ItsJustMagic
Sixth Man
Joined: 07 Nov 2017
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ItsJustMagic wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | No attack, just an observation that has become very obvious. |
No, it was absolutely an attack. You know that. If you can't respond in a civil fashion, just skip my posts. |
It seemed like a fair observation to me based on your positing history. |
You can just skip my posts, too. As a rule of thumb, if you are addressing the person and not the substance, you're probably on the wrong side of the line. |
This post seems to be attacking me. You can skip my posts. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ItsJustMagic wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | No attack, just an observation that has become very obvious. |
No, it was absolutely an attack. You know that. If you can't respond in a civil fashion, just skip my posts. |
It seemed like a fair observation to me based on your positing history. |
Aren't some personal attacks fair observations as well? |
Yes.
But how is what I said an attack? I said certain posters search for reasons to criticize him. You may say certain posters search for reasons to praise him. Neither are attacks just observations. |
Or just stick to debating the point? Were you not able to debate the points with this poster?
I could make an observation that the sky is blue today when I look out the window. It's not a personal attack, but not relevant either.
And that's not an observation - it's an accusation. |
I did debate the points but felt like adding my observation.
But I’m not talking about the shy being blue and it was relevant to the discussion at hand.
Sure it could be seen as an accusation stemming from what I observed, that’s fair. |
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