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eddiejonze
Star Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 7424
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 Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| Threatt_Level wrote: | | saetarubia wrote: |
ZO's RPM last season was 1.12. 21st among PGs. John Wall's was 1.17. 20th among PGs. So are you happy with the overall impact of John Wall last season? Wall also played with another all star in Beal. |
John Wall also was hurt, only played half the season, and had one of the worst seasons of his career last year. The three year before that, he put up 2.26, 2.72, and 4.30 RPM. Lonzo doesn't have that kind of track record. |
So you're comparing Zo to a known commodity and at times all star- Guess you like lonzo's prospects after all?
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PauPau
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 844
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | saetarubia wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Here's my favorite thing about this argument.
Lonzo started the season inconsistent on defense. It was every other game.
But in October, oh man...
46.2%. 41%. 10.1/4.5/4.5/1/0
Net rating? -7.2.
December? Defense WAYYY better. Playmaking upgraded.
37.1% 25.6% 10.1/4.6/6.5/2.6/.7
Net rating? +14.2
So, which Lonzo is better? There's the litmus test. |
So basically between the one who shoots like crap and defends so and so vs the one who shoots so and so but defends like crap?
They're both not very good.
You did bring up post TC numbers and the supposition the knee might still have been ailing him in October.
Basically I think there may be some unreasonableness to all the positives that are attributed to Zo.
An element of confirmation bias does exist. |
October shooting is not so so. If you want a player that shoots like that, facilitates and defends good, how many players do both in the NBA right now let alone a 2nd year one? And they'd all be elite players and all stars. |
Just wait till he puts the early season offensive player with the December defensive player. Gonna be fun to watch(although this thread will probably remain similar to how it looks now after any loss). |
Was gonna post something similar to this effect. That's quite frankly what every fan should hope for.
The criticism of his shooting however shouldn't be brushed aside like it's a none issue.
Zo's floor impact when he's on is not in the issue being critiqued, his short comings that that were sold to us as positives are. |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Threatt_Level wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Dude, are you even reading that October he was shooting the way you'd want him to?
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The season doesn't end in October. You could look at a lot of career mediocre players and find a good month here and there for them. Brandon Jennings and MCW looked like future stars after the first couple of months of their NBA careers. |
The season doesn't start in December either.
My point is, you can't use BPM as an overall indicator of who he is when the variance in numbers has been so wildly different. You're also making the assumption that he was 100% healthy to start the season, when it was very clear he wasn't.
It's a legit 180* different type of player. Offense October. Defense December. Individual numbers show it on both ends of the floor. The only difference is net rating.
So now, you're using numbers on a bad sample. How relevant are those numbers now? Is he the offense first player that he was in October? Or the defense first player he is this month?
That's what I mean by "tailored stat."
At least if you pulled BPM just for December.. or even from mid November when he was actually healthy, I'd actually believe it.
_________________
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https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans.
Last edited by Mike@LG on Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:19 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Threatt_Level
Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Posts: 467
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: |
Oh man, I'm sorry. Lonzo isn't supposed to be a franchise player. He wasn't projected as one by a lot of smart guys that keep track of the draft. |
LOL Ok. The Lakers passed up on Fox, Tatum, and Fultz to take a guy who wasn't projected to be a franchise player. The conventional wisdom and majority of scouts said otherwise. |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Threatt_Level wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: |
Oh man, I'm sorry. Lonzo isn't supposed to be a franchise player. He wasn't projected as one by a lot of smart guys that keep track of the draft. |
LOL Ok. The Lakers passed up on Fox, Tatum, and Fultz to take a guy who wasn't projected to be a franchise player. The conventional wisdom and majority of scouts said otherwise. |
Oh man, I really hate to break it to you... but you can't use conventional wisdom and traditional scouting when it comes to Lonzo...
This is part of the reason why the fanbase is so upset at him when really they shouldn't be.
Also, false assumption on it being guaranteed that there's franchise players in every draft.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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eddiejonze
Star Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 7424
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| PauPau wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | saetarubia wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Here's my favorite thing about this argument.
Lonzo started the season inconsistent on defense. It was every other game.
But in October, oh man...
46.2%. 41%. 10.1/4.5/4.5/1/0
Net rating? -7.2.
December? Defense WAYYY better. Playmaking upgraded.
37.1% 25.6% 10.1/4.6/6.5/2.6/.7
Net rating? +14.2
So, which Lonzo is better? There's the litmus test. |
So basically between the one who shoots like crap and defends so and so vs the one who shoots so and so but defends like crap?
They're both not very good.
You did bring up post TC numbers and the supposition the knee might still have been ailing him in October.
Basically I think there may be some unreasonableness to all the positives that are attributed to Zo.
An element of confirmation bias does exist. |
October shooting is not so so. If you want a player that shoots like that, facilitates and defends good, how many players do both in the NBA right now let alone a 2nd year one? And they'd all be elite players and all stars. |
Just wait till he puts the early season offensive player with the December defensive player. Gonna be fun to watch(although this thread will probably remain similar to how it looks now after any loss). |
Was gonna post something similar to this effect. That's quite frankly what every fan should hope for.
The criticism of his shooting however shouldn't be brushed aside like it's a none issue.
Zo's floor impact when he's on is not in the issue being critiqued, his short comings that that were sold to us as positives are. |
Then don't buy whats trying to be sold to you, and if you want to complain to the sellers- tell magic to his face cause he's the one that sold ball to lakers fans.
Little hint: posters on LG's "Lonzo Ball thread" aren't the owners of the Lakers, or Lonzo Balls representation or family.
You're posting with a person quite possibly sitting in their underwear in bed, not a lakers exec in an office in El Segundo.
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| PauPau wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | saetarubia wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Here's my favorite thing about this argument.
Lonzo started the season inconsistent on defense. It was every other game.
But in October, oh man...
46.2%. 41%. 10.1/4.5/4.5/1/0
Net rating? -7.2.
December? Defense WAYYY better. Playmaking upgraded.
37.1% 25.6% 10.1/4.6/6.5/2.6/.7
Net rating? +14.2
So, which Lonzo is better? There's the litmus test. |
So basically between the one who shoots like crap and defends so and so vs the one who shoots so and so but defends like crap?
They're both not very good.
You did bring up post TC numbers and the supposition the knee might still have been ailing him in October.
Basically I think there may be some unreasonableness to all the positives that are attributed to Zo.
An element of confirmation bias does exist. |
October shooting is not so so. If you want a player that shoots like that, facilitates and defends good, how many players do both in the NBA right now let alone a 2nd year one? And they'd all be elite players and all stars. |
Just wait till he puts the early season offensive player with the December defensive player. Gonna be fun to watch(although this thread will probably remain similar to how it looks now after any loss). |
Was gonna post something similar to this effect. That's quite frankly what every fan should hope for.
The criticism of his shooting however shouldn't be brushed aside like it's a none issue.
Zo's floor impact when he's on is not in the issue being critiqued, his short comings that that were sold to us as positives are. |
Nobody is saying it’s a non issue but I believe it’s an overblown one. I have been most worried about his finishing but that’s seen a lot of improvement recently. Despite all the holes in his game, he’s a positive contributor when he’s healthy, has shown signs of being able to make shots when confident, and has improved his finishing of late. The 1v1 dribble moves will likely never be there but I don’t mind that at all(many do). He’s a unique player with crazy potential IMO and has shown improvent in this short season and a willingness to put in the work in the offseason. I think this postseason will change a lot of the narrative about his game and an off season without surgery will be huge for development. I’m very excited about him as a prospect.
My main issue is the ridiculously exaggerated negative takes from people intentionally ignoring anything positive surrounding his game. |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | My main issue is the ridiculously exaggerated negative takes from people intentionally ignoring anything positive surrounding his game.
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My main issue is the constant complaints, even when the Lakers are a .600 team.
And then when he had already shown offensive ability in October, the Lakers were... losing more? I know it was tougher competition, but it's a false assumption that better offensive numbers = wins.
The defense and playmaking has more than made up for that.
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Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:30 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | My main issue is the ridiculously exaggerated negative takes from people intentionally ignoring anything positive surrounding his game.
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My main issue is the constant complaints, even when the Lakers are a .600 team.
And then when he had already shown offensive ability in October, the Lakers were... losing more? I know it was tougher competition, but it's a false assumption that better offensive numbers = wins.
The defense and playmaking has more than made up for that. |
This is pretty much what it boils down to.
Some see it that way. Some dont.
What can you do. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | My main issue is the ridiculously exaggerated negative takes from people intentionally ignoring anything positive surrounding his game.
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My main issue is the constant complaints, even when the Lakers are a .600 team.
And then when he had already shown offensive ability in October, the Lakers were... losing more? I know it was tougher competition, but it's a false assumption that better offensive numbers = wins.
The defense and playmaking has more than made up for that. |
And that defense and playmaking has made life much easier for LeBron which shouldn’t go overlooked and has kept the second unit afloat in multiple games without BI and Rondo. This has been a very good start to the year for the Lakers, but many will never be happy. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You're posting with a person quite possibly sitting in their underwear in bed, not a lakers exec in an office in El Segundo. |
Speaking of Ball, y'all don't "go commando" when you sleep? I do. 
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Threatt_Level
Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Posts: 467
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Threatt_Level wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Dude, are you even reading that October he was shooting the way you'd want him to?
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The season doesn't end in October. You could look at a lot of career mediocre players and find a good month here and there for them. Brandon Jennings and MCW looked like future stars after the first couple of months of their NBA careers. |
The season doesn't start in December either.
My point is, you can't use BPM as an overall indicator of who he is when the variance in numbers has been so wildly different. You're also making the assumption that he was 100% healthy to start the season, when it was very clear he wasn't.
It's a legit 180* different type of player. Offense October. Defense December. Individual numbers show it on both ends of the floor. The only difference is net rating.
So now, you're using numbers on a bad sample. How relevant are those numbers now? Is he the offense first player that he was in October? Or the defense first player he is this month?
That's what I mean by "tailored stat."
At least if you pulled BPM just for December.. or even from mid November when he was actually healthy, I'd actually believe it. |
This conversation is idiotic. You're arguing that a smaller sample size is better than a bigger one. He was hurt in October, but put up better offensive numbers. If Lonzo wasn't with the Lakers and someone tried making the argument you were making, the first thing out of your mouth would probably be "regression to the mean". But because it's Lonzo, now the sample is flawed. Whatever. |
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PauPau
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 844
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | saetarubia wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Here's my favorite thing about this argument.
Lonzo started the season inconsistent on defense. It was every other game.
But in October, oh man...
46.2%. 41%. 10.1/4.5/4.5/1/0
Net rating? -7.2.
December? Defense WAYYY better. Playmaking upgraded.
37.1% 25.6% 10.1/4.6/6.5/2.6/.7
Net rating? +14.2
So, which Lonzo is better? There's the litmus test. |
So basically between the one who shoots like crap and defends so and so vs the one who shoots so and so but defends like crap?
They're both not very good.
You did bring up post TC numbers and the supposition the knee might still have been ailing him in October.
Basically I think there may be some unreasonableness to all the positives that are attributed to Zo.
An element of confirmation bias does exist. |
October shooting is not so so. If you want a player that shoots like that, facilitates and defends good, how many players do both in the NBA right now let alone a 2nd year one? And they'd all be elite players and all stars. |
Just wait till he puts the early season offensive player with the December defensive player. Gonna be fun to watch(although this thread will probably remain similar to how it looks now after any loss). |
Was gonna post something similar to this effect. That's quite frankly what every fan should hope for.
The criticism of his shooting however shouldn't be brushed aside like it's a none issue.
Zo's floor impact when he's on is not in the issue being critiqued, his short comings that that were sold to us as positives are. |
Then don't buy whats trying to be sold to you, and if you want to complain to the sellers- tell magic to his face cause he's the one that sold ball to lakers fans.
Little hint: posters on LG's "Lonzo Ball thread" aren't the owners of the Lakers, or Lonzo Balls representation or family.
You're posting with a person quite possibly sitting in their underwear in bed, not a lakers exec in an office in El Segundo. |
Lol, where did you come from?
If you've just joined us be sure to catch the episodes you've missed. If not you might come down with a rare form of frustration that will inevitably lead you to making very stupid statements that could quite frankly be made to a good %age of the posts made on LG rendering the entire site irrellevant.
Have a nice day. |
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laker50
Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014
Posts: 2140
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: |
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What is obvious is that Lonzo has huge upside if he learns to shoot. But if he does not he will be at best a rotation player.
Yes, Fox and Tatum were better short range selections.
But if Lonzo ever learns to shoot he will be good. His UCLA year masked that fact he couldn't shoot being among so many good shooters.
He has to hire a shooting coach and work full time with it.
Figure out best way to fix his shooting.
It can be done. |
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Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Threatt_Level wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Threatt_Level wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Dude, are you even reading that October he was shooting the way you'd want him to?
|
The season doesn't end in October. You could look at a lot of career mediocre players and find a good month here and there for them. Brandon Jennings and MCW looked like future stars after the first couple of months of their NBA careers. |
The season doesn't start in December either.
My point is, you can't use BPM as an overall indicator of who he is when the variance in numbers has been so wildly different. You're also making the assumption that he was 100% healthy to start the season, when it was very clear he wasn't.
It's a legit 180* different type of player. Offense October. Defense December. Individual numbers show it on both ends of the floor. The only difference is net rating.
So now, you're using numbers on a bad sample. How relevant are those numbers now? Is he the offense first player that he was in October? Or the defense first player he is this month?
That's what I mean by "tailored stat."
At least if you pulled BPM just for December.. or even from mid November when he was actually healthy, I'd actually believe it. |
This conversation is idiotic. You're arguing that a smaller sample size is better than a bigger one. He was hurt in October, but put up better offensive numbers. If Lonzo wasn't with the Lakers and someone tried making the argument you were making, the first thing out of your mouth would probably be "regression to the mean". But because it's Lonzo, now the sample is flawed. Whatever. |
Yeah, didn't think you'd like it. But, you also think Lonzo should be a franchise player, so...
Also, if you want to use BPM as a stat for the year to date, maybe choose a guy that's been healthy and in the same role all year, like Kyle Kuzma.
Unlike Lonzo, he actually IS that BPM number representation.
But no one gets on his case because of draft position. It's unbelievable.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans.
Last edited by Mike@LG on Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | My main issue is the ridiculously exaggerated negative takes from people intentionally ignoring anything positive surrounding his game.
|
My main issue is the constant complaints, even when the Lakers are a .600 team.
And then when he had already shown offensive ability in October, the Lakers were... losing more? I know it was tougher competition, but it's a false assumption that better offensive numbers = wins.
The defense and playmaking has more than made up for that. |
And that defense and playmaking has made life much easier for LeBron which shouldn’t go overlooked and has kept the second unit afloat in multiple games without BI and Rondo. This has been a very good start to the year for the Lakers, but many will never be happy. |
Yup.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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eddiejonze
Star Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 7424
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| PauPau wrote: | | eddiejonze wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | saetarubia wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Here's my favorite thing about this argument.
Lonzo started the season inconsistent on defense. It was every other game.
But in October, oh man...
46.2%. 41%. 10.1/4.5/4.5/1/0
Net rating? -7.2.
December? Defense WAYYY better. Playmaking upgraded.
37.1% 25.6% 10.1/4.6/6.5/2.6/.7
Net rating? +14.2
So, which Lonzo is better? There's the litmus test. |
So basically between the one who shoots like crap and defends so and so vs the one who shoots so and so but defends like crap?
They're both not very good.
You did bring up post TC numbers and the supposition the knee might still have been ailing him in October.
Basically I think there may be some unreasonableness to all the positives that are attributed to Zo.
An element of confirmation bias does exist. |
October shooting is not so so. If you want a player that shoots like that, facilitates and defends good, how many players do both in the NBA right now let alone a 2nd year one? And they'd all be elite players and all stars. |
Just wait till he puts the early season offensive player with the December defensive player. Gonna be fun to watch(although this thread will probably remain similar to how it looks now after any loss). |
Was gonna post something similar to this effect. That's quite frankly what every fan should hope for.
The criticism of his shooting however shouldn't be brushed aside like it's a none issue.
Zo's floor impact when he's on is not in the issue being critiqued, his short comings that that were sold to us as positives are. |
Then don't buy whats trying to be sold to you, and if you want to complain to the sellers- tell magic to his face cause he's the one that sold ball to lakers fans.
Little hint: posters on LG's "Lonzo Ball thread" aren't the owners of the Lakers, or Lonzo Balls representation or family.
You're posting with a person quite possibly sitting in their underwear in bed, not a lakers exec in an office in El Segundo. |
Lol, where did you come from?
If you've just joined us be sure to catch the episodes you've missed. If not you might come down with a rare form of frustration that will inevitably lead you to making very stupid statements that could quite frankly be made to a good %age of the posts made on LG rendering the entire site irrellevant.
Have a nice day. |
Been a member of LG longer than you cheif so I should actually be the one asking you, "lol, where did you come from?"
In case you missed (you did) previous seasons of the popular daytime soap: "crazy dayz on the ol LG" -certain posters have lil hissy fits about some new Laker that was drafted cause they see a player who got drafted later is playing better.
Happens. every. season.
PS, weren't you the guy who went on about you played basketball somewhere so you know more than us?
I don't think you're the guy that should question "stupid statements" on LG...
_________________
Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood.
Last edited by eddiejonze on Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PauPau
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 844
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | saetarubia wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Here's my favorite thing about this argument.
Lonzo started the season inconsistent on defense. It was every other game.
But in October, oh man...
46.2%. 41%. 10.1/4.5/4.5/1/0
Net rating? -7.2.
December? Defense WAYYY better. Playmaking upgraded.
37.1% 25.6% 10.1/4.6/6.5/2.6/.7
Net rating? +14.2
So, which Lonzo is better? There's the litmus test. |
So basically between the one who shoots like crap and defends so and so vs the one who shoots so and so but defends like crap?
They're both not very good.
You did bring up post TC numbers and the supposition the knee might still have been ailing him in October.
Basically I think there may be some unreasonableness to all the positives that are attributed to Zo.
An element of confirmation bias does exist. |
October shooting is not so so. If you want a player that shoots like that, facilitates and defends good, how many players do both in the NBA right now let alone a 2nd year one? And they'd all be elite players and all stars. |
Just wait till he puts the early season offensive player with the December defensive player. Gonna be fun to watch(although this thread will probably remain similar to how it looks now after any loss). |
Was gonna post something similar to this effect. That's quite frankly what every fan should hope for.
The criticism of his shooting however shouldn't be brushed aside like it's a none issue.
Zo's floor impact when he's on is not in the issue being critiqued, his short comings that that were sold to us as positives are. |
Nobody is saying it’s a non issue but I believe it’s an overblown one. I have been most worried about his finishing but that’s seen a lot of improvement recently. Despite all the holes in his game, he’s a positive contributor when he’s healthy, has shown signs of being able to make shots when confident, and has improved his finishing of late. The 1v1 dribble moves will likely never be there but I don’t mind that at all(many do). He’s a unique player with crazy potential IMO and has shown improvent in this short season and a willingness to put in the work in the offseason. I think this postseason will change a lot of the narrative about his game and an off season without surgery will be huge for development. I’m very excited about him as a prospect.
My main issue is the ridiculously exaggerated negative takes from people intentionally ignoring anything positive surrounding his game. |
He has improved his aggression for sure. The finishing on the downhill drives is improving pretty quick as well The aesthetic play isn't necessary really, you're right.
If he can work on coming of the PnR and finishing with a floater that will be more than enough to start with for next season.
The rest of the std pg flash isn't his game and it doesn't have to be.
I just want the kid to shoot more efficiently. Not even score more, just plant the seed in the opponents head. LbJ is gonna neex all the spacing he can get. |
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Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I just want the kid to shoot more efficiently. Not even score more, just plant the seed in the opponents head. LbJ is gonna neex all the spacing he can get.
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That's the thing. Lonzo is incredibly low USG and he's not a shooting specialist. I wouldn't expect his numbers to necessarily jump up with accuracy.
To further add:
For all the stuff about Shaq and Kobe
2000
Ron Harper 40%/31%
Derek Fisher 34.6%/31.3%
Horry 43.8%/30.9%
Fox 41.4%/32.6%
It's basically an argument over 1 2-point field goal attempt.
I also think, LeBron already gets the spacing. The accurate stat to look at is how tightly a defender defends Lonzo behind the arc, but LeBron has been putting up the same numbers with 5 minutes less PT compared to his prime. Dude is shooting 75% within 3' of the hoop already.
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Last edited by Mike@LG on Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:00 am; edited 2 times in total |
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PauPau
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 844
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: |
Been a member of LG longer than you cheif so I should actually be the one asking you, "lol, where did you come from?" |
Alright Hombre, I cede. Lets move on. |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| PauPau wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | saetarubia wrote: | | PauPau wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Here's my favorite thing about this argument.
Lonzo started the season inconsistent on defense. It was every other game.
But in October, oh man...
46.2%. 41%. 10.1/4.5/4.5/1/0
Net rating? -7.2.
December? Defense WAYYY better. Playmaking upgraded.
37.1% 25.6% 10.1/4.6/6.5/2.6/.7
Net rating? +14.2
So, which Lonzo is better? There's the litmus test. |
So basically between the one who shoots like crap and defends so and so vs the one who shoots so and so but defends like crap?
They're both not very good.
You did bring up post TC numbers and the supposition the knee might still have been ailing him in October.
Basically I think there may be some unreasonableness to all the positives that are attributed to Zo.
An element of confirmation bias does exist. |
October shooting is not so so. If you want a player that shoots like that, facilitates and defends good, how many players do both in the NBA right now let alone a 2nd year one? And they'd all be elite players and all stars. |
Just wait till he puts the early season offensive player with the December defensive player. Gonna be fun to watch(although this thread will probably remain similar to how it looks now after any loss). |
Was gonna post something similar to this effect. That's quite frankly what every fan should hope for.
The criticism of his shooting however shouldn't be brushed aside like it's a none issue.
Zo's floor impact when he's on is not in the issue being critiqued, his short comings that that were sold to us as positives are. |
Nobody is saying it’s a non issue but I believe it’s an overblown one. I have been most worried about his finishing but that’s seen a lot of improvement recently. Despite all the holes in his game, he’s a positive contributor when he’s healthy, has shown signs of being able to make shots when confident, and has improved his finishing of late. The 1v1 dribble moves will likely never be there but I don’t mind that at all(many do). He’s a unique player with crazy potential IMO and has shown improvent in this short season and a willingness to put in the work in the offseason. I think this postseason will change a lot of the narrative about his game and an off season without surgery will be huge for development. I’m very excited about him as a prospect.
My main issue is the ridiculously exaggerated negative takes from people intentionally ignoring anything positive surrounding his game. |
He has improved his aggression for sure. The finishing on the downhill drives is improving pretty quick as well The aesthetic play isn't necessary really, you're right.
If he can work on coming of the PnR and finishing with a floater that will be more than enough to start with for next season.
The rest of the std pg flash isn't his game and it doesn't have to be.
I just want the kid to shoot more efficiently. Not even score more, just plant the seed in the opponents head. LbJ is gonna neex all the spacing he can get. |
You don’t think he’s already planted that seed? I feel like teams don’t treat him like a nonshooter, do you?
His streakiness and willingness to take open ones forces defenses to guard him like a better shooter than he is. Obviously, we’d like him to make more but the kid already has a ton on his plate as far as his role on the team. When he wasn’t filling all these other roles, he was shooting well but the team needs the other things far more than shooting. How much are you gonna ask of a second year player who just played his 82nd game and coming off knee surgery? I’d say they’re already asking a lot. |
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al242
Star Player
Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Posts: 3138
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Threatt_Level wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Dude, are you even reading that October he was shooting the way you'd want him to?
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The season doesn't end in October. You could look at a lot of career mediocre players and find a good month here and there for them. Brandon Jennings and MCW looked like future stars after the first couple of months of their NBA careers. |
You have a point here...the mod is really trying to draw a conclusion from the month of October when players are trying to get into shape and learn their new teams and obviously not up to speed  |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Brandon Jennings and MCW looked like future stars after the first couple of months of their NBA careers. |
That wasn't my point.
Lonzo wasn't 100% healthy. Jennings and MCW were. Flawed sample.
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Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| al242 wrote: | | Threatt_Level wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | Dude, are you even reading that October he was shooting the way you'd want him to?
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The season doesn't end in October. You could look at a lot of career mediocre players and find a good month here and there for them. Brandon Jennings and MCW looked like future stars after the first couple of months of their NBA careers. |
You have a point here...the mod is really trying to draw a conclusion from the month of October when players are trying to get into shape and learn their new teams and obviously not up to speed |
He’s saying he was better after the first month and many fans think he was better early in the year strictly because of ppg and shooting %s. Other teams not being up to speed is irrelevant. |
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Threatt_Level
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Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Posts: 467
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| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | Brandon Jennings and MCW looked like future stars after the first couple of months of their NBA careers. |
That wasn't my point.
Lonzo wasn't 100% healthy. Jennings and MCW were. Flawed sample. |
I'm done. You're hunting for excuses like Markelle Fultz's agent hunting for a diagnosis. |
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