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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:11 am    Post subject:

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More than 30 lawmakers are now asking Capitol security officials for details about which lawmakers or staffers allowed visitors into the Capitol on Jan. 5.

They say they witnessed "suspicious" visits and even reported them the day before the violence.

https://mobile.twitter.com/politico/status/1349729266842402816
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:20 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
ribeye wrote:
BILBJH wrote:


I voted for Stein last time because I couldn't stand the idea of HRC being our first woman President.


Wow, I just saw this referenced. Please explain exactly what it was that caused you to feel this strongly. I have asked many why they hate Hillary and I've never received a rational answer based on facts or her history. I just didn't like her but I can't explain why is a piss-poor answer when the alternative was a mob boss, con-man, egomaniacal, narcissist. So, though your statement may not go quite so far, it does share some or much of the sentiment.


I said unless I lived in a swing state... but you all continue to go off because I disliked the way the DNC ran their campaign.


Sorry I blew up there. . . .

I did not see the swing state comment. My daughter (shame on her) voted for Stein, but when she explained that it did not matter, coming from California, (so no shame on her), I accepted that as a reasonable position.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:25 am    Post subject:

I'll leave it to LC and ribeye, but there has still been no reason given for not voting for Clinton based on facts. "I just didn't like the Clintons" and "but, Bill Clinton..." aren't really reasons based in facts. Among Stein, Clinton and Trump, Hillary Clinton by far would have been the most qualified, most experienced, smartest and most successful of the three. By any objective measure. And that was as perfectly obvious in 2016 as it is in 2021. No hindsight needed.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:38 am    Post subject:

Repeat post.
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Last edited by kikanga on Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:38 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
kikanga wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
If you didn't see what happened, you weren't watching closely enough.

There was no pivotal moment where Biden gave an inspiring speech and won the hearts of voters. Clyburn along with CNN and MSNBC decided that Bernie was too extreme and they painted him as someone who would destroy dnot only the party but most down ballot candidates. Have you ever even heard of down ballot candidates regularly discussed until this election?

No, it was a media hit job combined with Clyburn's political machinery that changed the tide of the election almost overnight. Biden was losing in a landslide before that. It was a master class in manufacturing consent.

There were definitely forces pushing against Bernie and for Biden.
Chris Matthews lost his job over it. And rightfully so.

But, if you add up the support for the progressive candidates in the primary. From start to finish. They never carried 50% or more of the polling. Clyburn, CNN, and MSNBC weren't the reason why voters in my age range 20-30 didn't show up enough on Super Tuesday. And Biden and other closer to center Democrats maintained the majority of the African American vote from start to finish.

Hey, Bernie started a movement and garnered a massive amount of support NOBODY would've predicted pre-2016. He's legitimately a hero for the cause. But we just don't have the votes to run the Democratic party yet. But we're getting there. The Congressional Progressive Caucus continues to grow. And 2024 is definitely in play in terms of someone from that caucus getting the nomination.

One day Omar may have to vote Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez for President.

Those "forces" were Democratic primary voters.

Chris Matthews was a sex pest and hack finally fired on pretense. "Forces." For (bleep)'s sake. Chris Matthews was "forces." FOH.

ETA: no Obama endorsed Biden before Super Tuesday. No Clinton endorsed Biden before Super Tuesday. Kamala Harris didn't endorse Biden before Super Tuesday. The former mayor of the 4th largest city in Indiana and a Minnesota Senator most known for throwing staplers at interns dropped out and endorsed Biden before Super Tuesday.

If Bernie couldn't beat that, he wasn't a winning candidate.


Did you read the non-bolded part of my post? Or do you just want to fight, by saying exactly what I said in a different way?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:45 am    Post subject:

Big-talking "political pundits" who like to back losers remind me of...

Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth.

Mike Tyson


https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/mike_tyson_382439


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:45 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
ribeye wrote:
BILBJH wrote:


I voted for Stein last time because I couldn't stand the idea of HRC being our first woman President.


Wow, I just saw this referenced. Please explain exactly what it was that caused you to feel this strongly. I have asked many why they hate Hillary and I've never received a rational answer based on facts or her history. I just didn't like her but I can't explain why is a piss-poor answer when the alternative was a mob boss, con-man, egomaniacal, narcissist. So, though your statement may not go quite so far, it does share some or much of the sentiment.


I said unless I lived in a swing state... but you all continue to go off because I disliked the way the DNC ran their campaign.


Sorry I blew up there. . . .

I did not see the swing state comment. My daughter (shame on her) voted for Stein, but when she explained that it did not matter, coming from California, (so no shame on her), I accepted that as a reasonable position.


It's all good, I have thick skin.

Let me put it this way. I think Bill Belichick is the best football coach, but I don't like him as a person. I think Hillary is a shrewd intelligent person and would have done a good job as President... but I don't like her.

Was I manipulated by the press to dislike Belichick? Maybe... I mean we all get our information from the press... but one can think someone is bright and still not like them or want them to be coach of the Rams.

I can get with the point that I should have put my ego aside, and worry about what's best for the country. I get that the nation in principle is a 1000 times more important than who coaches a local sports team.

But when I see how little the government cares about right and wrong... how far we strayed from our original democratic principles... and how our nation has morphed into something barely recognizable from what it once was then sometimes you want something different than the safe choice that continues the same crap over and over. I'm not talking about voting for Trump... but that's why I wanted to see Bernie win and was disappointed when the DNC played an active role in his demise.

I was really excited when Obama became President... but although he's magnitudes better than Trump and a really likeable guy... he still continued the same policies of endless bombing of the middle east... still deported illegals... I still saw income inequality growing. I wanted real change and when it never really came other than a watered down healthcare program it was disappointing because I thought he was a rare personality who might have been able to get true universal healthcare passed. Both Biden and HRC were part of that administration and so I wasn't thrilled when either of them became the main candidates.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:45 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
kikanga wrote:

One day Omar may have to vote Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez for President.


If AOC is the democratic nominee running against a Republican, she will have my vote. This isn’t hard people. She’s not my favorite on a number of fronts but these choices aren’t some struggle. The worst democratic candidate is better than the Republican nominee.

Btw, I’d be happy to vote for Abrams. She’s a progressive but meets the test of understanding how things work. She doesn’t destroy other seats to aggrandize herself and her q rating. And she does the work in the lances that win the congress and the White House for you. In the battleground states and districts. I’m not against progressives. I’m against dilettantes and dividers and those who are not about pragmatic policy and rule. I am an unapologetic what can you get done guy.


I've said the bolded to my progressive friends more times than I could count. And in fairness, I think more and more of them have embraced it over time.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:51 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:

I was really excited when Obama became President... but although he's magnitudes better than Trump and a really likeable guy... he still continued the same policies of endless bombing of the middle east... still deported illegals... I still saw income inequality growing. I wanted real change and when it never really came other than a watered down healthcare program it was disappointing because I thought he was a rare personality who might have been able to get true universal healthcare passed. Both Biden and HRC were part of that administration and so I wasn't thrilled when either of them became the main candidates.


I feel you, I despise this two party system but even a 'Stein' or a 'Bernie' would've ran into the same roadblock Obama did and most likely end up with same or worse outcome of legislation. GOP is like that
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:03 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
BILBJH wrote:

I was really excited when Obama became President... but although he's magnitudes better than Trump and a really likeable guy... he still continued the same policies of endless bombing of the middle east... still deported illegals... I still saw income inequality growing. I wanted real change and when it never really came other than a watered down healthcare program it was disappointing because I thought he was a rare personality who might have been able to get true universal healthcare passed. Both Biden and HRC were part of that administration and so I wasn't thrilled when either of them became the main candidates.


I feel you, I despise this two party system but even a 'Stein' or a 'Bernie' would've ran into the same roadblock Obama did and most likely end up with same or worse outcome of legislation. GOP is like that


I give Obama credit for trying... but when he went into his second term he was still playing it safe most of the time. The first term you can understand a politician playing Prevent defense because you want to get that next term... but in the second term... you have nothing to lose so you should be going all out to get your agenda passed. I kept waiting for the oracle of "change" to really do something... but that never really materialized and so I became disillusioned with the party.

I agree Sanders would have gotten less accomplished. What we need is someone with Obama's charisma and Bernie's principles. I would be very frightened if Bernie won this year because we might have ended up with another Carter like Presidency and it would put the Republicans in power for the next decade... but I'm hoping AOC or someone from her generation can carry Bernie's torch in the future. I get that AOC has been so smeared by attacks from both sides that it's hard to imagine she'll ever be a viable candidate but she's shown some ability to compromise so maybe she will grow into that role.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:04 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
governator wrote:
BILBJH wrote:

I was really excited when Obama became President... but although he's magnitudes better than Trump and a really likeable guy... he still continued the same policies of endless bombing of the middle east... still deported illegals... I still saw income inequality growing. I wanted real change and when it never really came other than a watered down healthcare program it was disappointing because I thought he was a rare personality who might have been able to get true universal healthcare passed. Both Biden and HRC were part of that administration and so I wasn't thrilled when either of them became the main candidates.


I feel you, I despise this two party system but even a 'Stein' or a 'Bernie' would've ran into the same roadblock Obama did and most likely end up with same or worse outcome of legislation. GOP is like that


I give Obama credit for trying... but when he went into his second term he was still playing it safe most of the time. The first term you can understand a politician playing Prevent defense because you want to get that next term... but in the second term... you have nothing to lose so you should be going all out to get your agenda passed. I kept waiting for the oracle of "change" to really do something... but that never really materialized and so I became disillusioned with the party.

I agree Sanders would have gotten less accomplished. What we need is someone with Obama's charisma and Bernie's principles. I would be very frightened if Bernie won this year because we might have ended up with another Carter like Presidency and it would put the Republicans in power for the next decade... but I'm hoping AOC or someone from her generation can carry Bernie's torch in the future. I get that AOC has been so smeared by attacks from both sides that it's hard to imagine she'll ever be a viable candidate but she's shown some ability to compromise so maybe she will grow into that role.


S.Abrams
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:09 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
governator wrote:
BILBJH wrote:

I was really excited when Obama became President... but although he's magnitudes better than Trump and a really likeable guy... he still continued the same policies of endless bombing of the middle east... still deported illegals... I still saw income inequality growing. I wanted real change and when it never really came other than a watered down healthcare program it was disappointing because I thought he was a rare personality who might have been able to get true universal healthcare passed. Both Biden and HRC were part of that administration and so I wasn't thrilled when either of them became the main candidates.


I feel you, I despise this two party system but even a 'Stein' or a 'Bernie' would've ran into the same roadblock Obama did and most likely end up with same or worse outcome of legislation. GOP is like that


I give Obama credit for trying... but when he went into his second term he was still playing it safe most of the time. The first term you can understand a politician playing Prevent defense because you want to get that next term... but in the second term... you have nothing to lose so you should be going all out to get your agenda passed. I kept waiting for the oracle of "change" to really do something... but that never really materialized and so I became disillusioned with the party.

I agree Sanders would have gotten less accomplished. What we need is someone with Obama's charisma and Bernie's principles. I would be very frightened if Bernie won this year because we might have ended up with another Carter like Presidency and it would put the Republicans in power for the next decade... but I'm hoping AOC or someone from her generation can carry Bernie's torch in the future. I get that AOC has been so smeared by attacks from both sides that it's hard to imagine she'll ever be a viable candidate but she's shown some ability to compromise so maybe she will grow into that role.


S.Abrams


I like Stacey Abrams... but let's see if she can win a state first.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:15 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:

Anyone paying attention to Donald Trump's history knew it would be very, very bad.


Even people who became Trump sycophants like Lindsey Graham knew exactly what a disaster he'd be.

It wasn't hard.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:

I like Stacey Abrams... but let's see if she can win a state first.

she just did
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:17 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:

Anyone paying attention to Donald Trump's history knew it would be very, very bad.


Even people who became Trump sycophants like Lindsey Graham knew exactly what a disaster he'd be.

It wasn't hard.


he not paying Guilani lawyer fees now lol
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:18 am    Post subject:

I know these people are the worst, but something about this story about the way they treat the people who risk their lives to keep them safe is particularly chilling.

Quote:
Jared and Ivanka told the Secret Service not to use ANY of the half-dozen bathrooms in their home, so the federal government has been spending $3,000 a month — more than $100,000 to date — to rent a basement studio, with a bathroom, from a neighbor.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:21 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
I know these people are the worst, but something about this story about the way they treat the people who risk their lives to keep them safe is particularly chilling.

Quote:
Jared and Ivanka told the Secret Service not to use ANY of the half-dozen bathrooms in their home, so the federal government has been spending $3,000 a month — more than $100,000 to date — to rent a basement studio, with a bathroom, from a neighbor.


ugh
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:23 am    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
It's amazing how some of you really believe that voters come up with the ideas of how to vote for themselves as opposed to outside monetized forces combined with data mining.


I have to say, having read your posts over the last couple of pages, this comment is laughable. You have literally parroted every single mindless and baseless cliche there is about Biden and Clinton and the whole "lesser of two evils" etc. nonsense.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:31 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
It's amazing how some of you really believe that voters come up with the ideas of how to vote for themselves as opposed to outside monetized forces combined with data mining.


I have to say, having read your posts over the last couple of pages, this comment is laughable. You have literally parroted every single mindless and baseless cliche there is about Biden and Clinton and the whole "lesser of two evils" etc. nonsense.


I'd go as far as saying Biden might have been the best possible candidate to defeat Trump.

But being a good candidate is different than actually being a good President.

Let's see what Biden does.

Again with the ad hominems. Amazing how otherwise decent people become uncivil if someone says something they disagree with.

Got to go to work... will reply to anything directed at me later.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:33 am    Post subject:

The story of Hillary the hated is a two part saga. Here's the blinkist version:

Part1, the GOP- The GOP just couldn't figure how to beat Bill Clinton. Nothing worked. While he wasn't as progressive as some would like and all of us can make policy and personal critiques with plenty of merit, he was a charismatic, effective, smart politician who enacted policy the GOP hated and they couldn't unseat him. So they decided to poison his legacy. The impeachment and the huge propaganda machine became less about him and about poisoning the well, trying to get his Veep to distance himself from the thing they couldn't beat. It worked. Gore fell for it.

But there was also the Hillary problem. Though not possessed of her husband's charm and charisma, she was his match as a shrewd operator, and she was actually more liberal, and she was connected to him and his vast political machine. So they set about to destroy her as well. There are books worth of the dirty tricks they got up to with Hillary. And while it didn't initially work, someone else was paying attention...

Part 2, the Russians- The Russians' goal in the 2016 elections was part of their larger goal to destabilize and fracture western alliances using psychological warfare, principally through cyber ops.They did not have the economic base to fight a second cold war militarily or state to state via proxies as the first was fought, so their goal was to bring the institutions down to their level. Sow discord and fracture alliances and hope for a radically less stable world where their gangsterism as as a government and economy was quite capable of competing.

The Russians believed Hillary would be president. They hated her more than the GOP did. As part of the Obama administration, she had a record of tough and effective policy, thwarting their objectives. Their number one goal in the 2016 election was to weaken her governing capabilities. So they ginned up their propaganda machine in two parts:

First they supported Trump on the GOP side, because he, as their compromised asset, was a wrecking ball to the GOP institutionalism. His use of naked race and nationalism to take over a base the GOP had been cultivating for other means was masterful and effective. Being anti global alliance and an anti intitution kleptocrat with visions of being Putin, he was perfect to tear the western hegemony oriented foreign policy of the GOP. This was alongside their support for similar ideas in Europe and Britain, including Brexit.

But they expended much of their energy crossing longstanding GOP propaganda over to a new audience, the far left. They, with the (witting or unwitting) help of Bernie's army, spread left wing hate for Hillary and the idea that when she beat Bernie it was rigged, and that they must vote third party in the election and oppose her and "corporate Dems" (the same ones that were hideous socialists in their propaganda to the GOP voters) when she was elected. They sought to squeeze her between the left and right and box her in, limiting her support and tearing at her alliances. They succeeded beyond their goals into the level of their dreams. And boy did they have a field day with the Trump administration. And they now own a huge chunk of our right leaning voters, and continue to foment the grievances of the left as well. They will now seek to limit the effectiveness of Biden.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:38 am    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
ribeye wrote:
BILBJH wrote:


I voted for Stein last time because I couldn't stand the idea of HRC being our first woman President.


Wow, I just saw this referenced. Please explain exactly what it was that caused you to feel this strongly. I have asked many why they hate Hillary and I've never received a rational answer based on facts or her history. I just didn't like her but I can't explain why is a piss-poor answer when the alternative was a mob boss, con-man, egomaniacal, narcissist. So, though your statement may not go quite so far, it does share some or much of the sentiment.


I said unless I lived in a swing state... but you all continue to go off because I disliked the way the DNC ran their campaign.


Sorry I blew up there. . . .

I did not see the swing state comment. My daughter (shame on her) voted for Stein, but when she explained that it did not matter, coming from California, (so no shame on her), I accepted that as a reasonable position.


I beg to differ. The "symbolic" "protest" voter in safe states wasn't happening in a silent vacuum. They were buying, spreading, amplifying, and blessing russian retconned GOP propaganda, and feeling like they were part of a movement, a revolution even. And they helped pass that camaraderie and comfort and support and motivation along to similar people in the battleground states. And that ultimately was just enough...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:40 am    Post subject:

I'm still waiting to hear why it was more important to decide who the most appropriate first WOMAN president should be conceptually than to decide who the actual president should be. There wasn't some third choice. Why is that idea so much easier with Biden?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:41 am    Post subject:

I'm also interested in why people who view everyone else being motivated by propaganda don't see that in their own motivations...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:45 am    Post subject:

Jaime Harrison has been named the new chair of the DNC.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:00 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Jaime Harrison has been named the new chair of the DNC.


Stacey had better be rewarded with something comparable to her accomplishment. This would have been perfect for her until she could run for governor in 2022. Maybe they want someone who could commit longer or maybe she didn't want it or who knows.
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