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greenfrog
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 Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: |
"‘Crushed the Hopes of a Democratic Establishment Desperate to Stop Him’"
Like I have said, this place needs an eye roll emoticon.
Even in victory, the Bernie as victim (bleep) doesn't stop . . . it'd be comical if it wasn't so ridiculously pathetic. |
Did you even click on the link? That's Chuck Todd's characterization, not a Bernie Bro's. |
Where do you think I copied the quote from?
It doesn't matter who said it, it still exemplifies and perpetuates the infantile attitude of much of the Bernie tribe. |
So the Bernie bros are now responsible for every dumb word that comes out of Chuck Todd's mouth... my god. |
Once again, you miss the point entirely. It's not who is "responsible".
Also, if you don't agree with the message, then why (as a Bernie supporter) would you post it and thus promote it.
See the point? It doesn't matter who said it. The message and intent is the same. |
Well then you missed the point of the post in the context of the discussion entirely. It wasn't to parrot Todd's stupid commentary, but to demonstrate how even the dumbest man in news can see that this thing is essentially over just one week after he was dumbfounded as to how anyone could call Bernie the frontrunner. Did we not know Bernie was going to win big in Nevada a week ago? Of course not. Do we not know now that another candidate doesn't have a chance in hell of hitting the majority or even coming close to winning as many delegates as Bernie? No, as well. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Neoliberal thought of the day: the TPP was (is) good and would have aided US geostrategic interests while boosting a handful of developing Pacific Rim economies.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | I have tried to avoid the unbelievably fatiguing infighting Bernie debate. I am a Never-Trumper, or better stated, a Never-Republican'er.
As such, we, the collective we who see Trump as a virus, need to get our (bleep) together and come together. I won't get my first choice* nor my second, nor my third or fourth, it seems. I will get over this. I wish others could get to this place. We need to put egos, that think our choice is the only good choice, aside, and unite on a candidate soon. We want to avoid a brokered convention--I do anyway. A brokered convention could very well likely create more discord and Trump wins as a result.
If it is Bernie, so be it. We will just have to pray (or whatever it is one may do) that the progressives are right that a progressive candidate will do better than a more moderate one.
*(If I could be god, or Trump as it were, and just put someone in the White House, it would be Liz without hesitation) |
This is what a perceived liberal pundit has to say....
"I'm wondering if Democratic moderates want Bernie Sanders to be President?" said [Chris] Matthews. "Maybe that's too exciting a question to raise. Do they want Bernie to take over the Democratic Party in perpetuity? Maybe they'd rather wait 4 years and put in a Democrat that they like." |
Does anyone take Matthews seriously?
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | I have tried to avoid the unbelievably fatiguing infighting Bernie debate. I am a Never-Trumper, or better stated, a Never-Republican'er.
As such, we, the collective we who see Trump as a virus, need to get our (bleep) together and come together. I won't get my first choice* nor my second, nor my third or fourth, it seems. I will get over this. I wish others could get to this place. We need to put egos, that think our choice is the only good choice, aside, and unite on a candidate soon. We want to avoid a brokered convention--I do anyway. A brokered convention could very well likely create more discord and Trump wins as a result.
If it is Bernie, so be it. We will just have to pray (or whatever it is one may do) that the progressives are right that a progressive candidate will do better than a more moderate one.
*(If I could be god, or Trump as it were, and just put someone in the White House, it would be Liz without hesitation) |
This is what a perceived liberal pundit has to say....
"I'm wondering if Democratic moderates want Bernie Sanders to be President?" said [Chris] Matthews. "Maybe that's too exciting a question to raise. Do they want Bernie to take over the Democratic Party in perpetuity? Maybe they'd rather wait 4 years and put in a Democrat that they like." |
He may have let the truth slip here. The consultancy grifters in the DNC and the media probably have a good thing going being anti-Trump.
Last edited by greenfrog on Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | If as Democrats we say it's not "okay" for Russia to help Trump, then we can't turn around and pretend it's "okay" if they are helping a Democratic nominee. |
But there's no way for the Sanders campaign to stop Russian interference. Trump openly and surreptitiously petitioned Russia for election interference in 2016 (not to mention what he's doing now). |
::sigh::
Okay, here's what Bernie could have differently this time:
Made it known to the public when he found out instead of hiding it for a month.
Not blame the press when it comes out.
Have his surrogates admit the truth instead of calling it fake news.
How's that for a start? Don't act like Trump. How hard is that? Is that too much to ask of our candidate? |
According to Michael Moore, he didn’t reveal it because it was a classified briefing. |
This is an incredibly dishonest and frankly stupid attempt at cya (by Moore, it you surf). The fact that they briefed him or even the topic of the briefing are not what is classified. It is the specific details of the briefing because they include how much is known and sources and methods of attaining the knowledge.
Notice during the congressional hearings they would announce that some subjects would take place in a closed session because it contained classified information. People discuss classified briefings all the time, including the fact that they had one, the general topic, and sometimes even non classified portions.
He didn’t announce it because he didn’t want the press going into the first primaries, pure and simple.
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Does anyone take Matthews seriously? |
That comment tells us that, as this country moves toward authoritarianism, people like Chris Matthews will be just fine. He'll still make his $20 mill per year. For him, waiting another four years is okay. Who cares about the downtrodden, the climate, international relations, etc. Chris Matthews can wait. It's so freaking out of touch and elitist.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Surfitall wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | If as Democrats we say it's not "okay" for Russia to help Trump, then we can't turn around and pretend it's "okay" if they are helping a Democratic nominee. |
But there's no way for the Sanders campaign to stop Russian interference. Trump openly and surreptitiously petitioned Russia for election interference in 2016 (not to mention what he's doing now). |
::sigh::
Okay, here's what Bernie could have differently this time:
Made it known to the public when he found out instead of hiding it for a month.
Not blame the press when it comes out.
Have his surrogates admit the truth instead of calling it fake news.
How's that for a start? Don't act like Trump. How hard is that? Is that too much to ask of our candidate? |
According to Michael Moore, he didn’t reveal it because it was a classified briefing. |
Did Moore explain why the "classified" information became declassified all of a sudden? |
It didn’t, the media reported it and then it was in the open. |
OK. So hiw did this "classified" information that Bernie was forbidden from mentioning suddenly become media fodder and why did that media (besides Moore) not mention that aspect? |
It’s being reported everywhere that he had a classified briefing about this. No need to continue putting it quotes as though it’s not true.
https://tinyurl.com/vy39vw3
“The classified FBI briefing wasn’t of the type routinely given to presidential campaigns about election security, those people said. It was given in reaction to intelligence considered compelling enough that Mr. Sanders needed to be alerted, one of the people said.”
So what possible reason would a story like this leaked to the media the day before another one primary? I’m sure it’s just a “coincidence”. |
If there was conspiratorial intent to release this and harm him, why would they do it right before a rather small caucus, instead of right before, say, Super Tuesday? Or better still, why not before Iowa and NH and submarine him from the start? That’s the problem with viewing everything through the lens of either good for him or part of a conspiracy.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | If as Democrats we say it's not "okay" for Russia to help Trump, then we can't turn around and pretend it's "okay" if they are helping a Democratic nominee. |
But there's no way for the Sanders campaign to stop Russian interference. Trump openly and surreptitiously petitioned Russia for election interference in 2016 (not to mention what he's doing now). |
::sigh::
Okay, here's what Bernie could have differently this time:
Made it known to the public when he found out instead of hiding it for a month.
Not blame the press when it comes out.
Have his surrogates admit the truth instead of calling it fake news.
How's that for a start? Don't act like Trump. How hard is that? Is that too much to ask of our candidate? |
According to Michael Moore, he didn’t reveal it because it was a classified briefing. |
Did Moore explain why the "classified" information became declassified all of a sudden? |
It didn’t, the media reported it and then it was in the open. |
OK. So hiw did this "classified" information that Bernie was forbidden from mentioning suddenly become media fodder and why did that media (besides Moore) not mention that aspect? |
It’s being reported everywhere that he had a classified briefing about this. No need to continue putting it quotes as though it’s not true.
https://tinyurl.com/vy39vw3
“The classified FBI briefing wasn’t of the type routinely given to presidential campaigns about election security, those people said. It was given in reaction to intelligence considered compelling enough that Mr. Sanders needed to be alerted, one of the people said.”
So what possible reason would a story like this leaked to the media the day before another one primary? I’m sure it’s just a “coincidence”. |
If there was conspiratorial intent to release this and harm him, why would they do it right before a rather small caucus, instead of right before, say, Super Tuesday? Or better still, why not before Iowa and NH and submarine him from the start? That’s the problem with viewing everything through the lens of either good for him or part of a conspiracy. |
The problem I had with the conspiratorial angle is that Friday is easily the worst day to release news if the intent is to damage someone. Of course, it's smart politics to trash the WashPo anyway. Distrust of the media is at an all-time high (I just trashed MSNBC). I do like having someone on our side who can play up this dynamic for a change. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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From an upcoming 60 Minutes interview with Sanders:
| Quote: | COOPER: If China took military action against Taiwan, is that something you would—
SANDERS: That's something—yeah. I mean I think we have got to make it clear to countries around the world that we will not sit by and allow—invasions to take place... |
https://twitter.com/RiegerReport/status/1231653841084522498
Good answer.
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Chris Matthews is such a boon for Sanders victimhood. |
How so? |
Are you unaware of the things Matthews has said in recent weeks? |
Oh, I’ve heard. I’m just looking forward to hearing how we should now blame Sanders supporters for being offended when tonight Chris Matthews, arguably the face of MSNBC, compares Sanders victory in Nevada to the German invasion of France. |
Um, I hate to break it to you, but the offense and criticism of Matthews's comments has been pretty universal.
I think BVH's point (and I could be wrong) was that Matthews's has helped to serve the contention that Bernie is unfairly under attack.
But thanks for once again demonstrating the defensiveness that exists amongst Bernie supporters. |
And for the record, Matthews is not the face of MSNBC. He’s a legacy holdover that has a constituency but among myself and many of the other viewers I know, he’s a relic of another era that is painful to watch in the best of moments.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Does anyone take Matthews seriously? |
That comment tells us that, as this country moves toward authoritarianism, people like Chris Matthews will be just fine. He'll still make his $20 mill per year. For him, waiting another four years is okay. Who cares about the downtrodden, the climate, international relations, etc. Chris Matthews can wait. It's so freaking out of touch and elitist. |
He should handle it better like Anderson Cooper.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Surfitall wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Chris Matthews is such a boon for Sanders victimhood. |
How so? |
Are you unaware of the things Matthews has said in recent weeks? |
Oh, I’ve heard. I’m just looking forward to hearing how we should now blame Sanders supporters for being offended when tonight Chris Matthews, arguably the face of MSNBC, compares Sanders victory in Nevada to the German invasion of France. |
Um, I hate to break it to you, but the offense and criticism of Matthews's comments has been pretty universal.
I think BVH's point (and I could be wrong) was that Matthews's has helped to serve the contention that Bernie is unfairly under attack.
But thanks for once again demonstrating the defensiveness that exists amongst Bernie supporters. |
And for the record, Matthews is not the face of MSNBC. He’s a legacy holdover that has a constituency but among myself and many of the other viewers I know, he’s a relic of another era that is painful to watch in the best of moments. |
My understanding is that "Hardball" has been a drag on MSNBC's evening slate for years.
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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But it's not as if his ratings have been incredible. They should have let him go many years ago. He's always been unhinged.
When his own colleagues cringe on air as he is speaking, maybe MSNBC should get the message.
But he apparently gets support from the people that matter there.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| They have two proven liars in Williams and Reid, a professional "Russia-linked" oligarchy soap opera weaver in Maddow, and a neo-con in Wallace on the air. Why would would Mathews not fit in? |
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| For the sake of my sanity I think I'm going to limit my exposure to speculation about the race until after Super Tuesday. People all over twitter are freaking out. It's an emotional roller coaster. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | I have tried to avoid the unbelievably fatiguing infighting Bernie debate. I am a Never-Trumper, or better stated, a Never-Republican'er.
As such, we, the collective we who see Trump as a virus, need to get our (bleep) together and come together. I won't get my first choice* nor my second, nor my third or fourth, it seems. I will get over this. I wish others could get to this place. We need to put egos, that think our choice is the only good choice, aside, and unite on a candidate soon. We want to avoid a brokered convention--I do anyway. A brokered convention could very well likely create more discord and Trump wins as a result.
If it is Bernie, so be it. We will just have to pray (or whatever it is one may do) that the progressives are right that a progressive candidate will do better than a more moderate one.
*(If I could be god, or Trump as it were, and just put someone in the White House, it would be Liz without hesitation) |
Bernie's not my first choice. And oddly enough, despite the fact I dislike much of his personality and his chosen strategy, I like most of his policy. I think Warren is better suited to seeing them actually come to fruition, which is why she is my personal choice.
But I sure as hell will be voting for Bernie in the General. And I will do so happily while supporting his run. Because, like you I realize that regardless of whom we support, Trump is the only actual "enemy" and the force that must be stopped if we hope to have a shred of this Republic left in 5 years.
I do think it is important to note why Bernie and his supporters face the criticisms they do. While they attack the party, they simultaneously play the poor victim card - EVEN in victory and success.
While I hope I am wrong, I don't think Bernie will ultimately be successful in the General. But my biggest fear is not that Bernie wins the nomination, It's that he won't. Because while reasonable people like you and I know what is at stake and that ultimately, seeing our own personal choice is far less important than seeing Trump defeated, there is a large contingent of Bernie supporters who are not pragmatic enough to put their personal disappointment aside and suck it up and vote in November for a Dem who isn't Bernie. It's their way or the highway. Which should really be of a concern for everyone who genuinely cares about the future of this country. |
Great posts by both of you. Not a single thing I disagree with.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | They have two proven liars in Williams and Reid, a professional "Russia-linked" oligarchy soap opera weaver in Maddow, and a neo-con in Wallace on the air. Why would would Mathews not fit in? |
That was very Trumpian to lump an entire range of professional journalists into a single bag of rotten apples as if it's completely obvious. Just a terrible, terrible take. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: |
Well then you missed the point of the post in the context of the discussion entirely. It wasn't to parrot Todd's stupid commentary, but to demonstrate how even the dumbest man in news can see that this thing is essentially over just one week after he was dumbfounded as to how anyone could call Bernie the frontrunner. Did we not know Bernie was going to win big in Nevada a week ago? Of course not. Do we not know now that another candidate doesn't have a chance in hell of hitting the majority or even coming close to winning as many delegates as Bernie? No, as well. |
No one is disputing where Sanders sits right now (well except jodeke  ), so if your point was to simply reaffirm what everyone is saying, not sure why you'd link to something that perpetuates one of the most tired tropes of Bernie's campaign if it wasn't something you ascribe to.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | They have two proven liars in Williams and Reid, a professional "Russia-linked" oligarchy soap opera weaver in Maddow, and a neo-con in Wallace on the air. Why would would Mathews not fit in? |
Oh. You're a #Russiagate truther, too.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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For those Sanders supporters in here, when you get together with Bernie buddies IRL, do you folks joke about Chris Matthews "getting the guillotine" in Central Park after Sanders wins or is that just an online phenomenon?
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: |
Well then you missed the point of the post in the context of the discussion entirely. It wasn't to parrot Todd's stupid commentary, but to demonstrate how even the dumbest man in news can see that this thing is essentially over just one week after he was dumbfounded as to how anyone could call Bernie the frontrunner. Did we not know Bernie was going to win big in Nevada a week ago? Of course not. Do we not know now that another candidate doesn't have a chance in hell of hitting the majority or even coming close to winning as many delegates as Bernie? No, as well. |
No one is disputing where Sanders sits right now (well except jodeke ), so if your point was to simply reaffirm what everyone is saying, not sure why you'd link to something that perpetuates one of the most tired tropes of Bernie's campaign if it wasn't something you ascribe to. |
Someone asked if voting for Klobuchar was a waste of a vote (it's a brokered convention vote just like Biden), and there was disagreement about it. That's why I responded.
Btw, I don't think voting for Warren necessarily is a waste of a vote in California where she might earn delegates which she can parlay into a cabinet appointment. |
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greenfrog
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Part of me wants Bernie to win the Presidency and be as lawless as Trump. I want him to expand executive branch powers and implement the most extreme left wing policy possible.
Just so when Republicans complain I can play dumb, downplay things, and use whatabout-isms to defend him. |
I would actually quite enjoy that. Ultimately I think it would be counterproductive, but it'd be fun in the short term. |
Right!
"In the first month, President Sanders through executive orders has outlawed all fire arms, started a program for 'rounding up their guns', started a task force for prosecuting camp guards at the border camps, given everyone with student debt a credit worth twice the amount they owe, freed all non violent criminals in jails and prisons, doubled the sentencing for all white collar crimes, doubled the sentencing for all sexually related crimes, and legalized all drugs."
Republicans: "This is ridiculous. He's not a monarch."
Me: (shrugs)
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| ChefLinda wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | They have two proven liars in Williams and Reid, a professional "Russia-linked" oligarchy soap opera weaver in Maddow, and a neo-con in Wallace on the air. Why would would Mathews not fit in? |
That was very Trumpian to lump an entire range of professional journalists into a single bag of rotten apples as if it's completely obvious. Just a terrible, terrible take. |
"Russia-linked" Maddow. What the (bleep)!?
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | ChefLinda wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | They have two proven liars in Williams and Reid, a professional "Russia-linked" oligarchy soap opera weaver in Maddow, and a neo-con in Wallace on the air. Why would would Mathews not fit in? |
That was very Trumpian to lump an entire range of professional journalists into a single bag of rotten apples as if it's completely obvious. Just a terrible, terrible take. |
"Russia-linked" Maddow. What the (bleep)!? |
There's a strongly held belief among some leftists that Russia's interference in the 2016 election never happened and that it's a hoax made up by "The Democratic Establishment" to cover for Clinton's loss or something.
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