Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 12290 Location: Pasadena, CA
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 6:47 am Post subject:
lakersken80 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Partys over at the UCLA encampment.
Party? I don't know of any protestor who described their time there as a party.
lakersken80 wrote:
Guys getting taken to the paddy wagon don't look like UCLA students.
The people in the encampment were students.
The people who were trying to protect the encampment weren't students.
I watched most of the taking down of the encampment. The first people taken into custody looked far older than UCLA students. They were also the ones that were providing the most resistance when the authorities were trying to take down the wooden barriers.
Exactly. They weren’t all students at all. I would say 1/4 of them students, the rest were rioters, troublemakers, people looking for trouble.
Got to be gullible to think these protests are all “students” - a lot are opportunistic thugs looking to cause trouble.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29648 Location: La La Land
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 6:57 am Post subject:
anth2000 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Partys over at the UCLA encampment.
Party? I don't know of any protestor who described their time there as a party.
lakersken80 wrote:
Guys getting taken to the paddy wagon don't look like UCLA students.
The people in the encampment were students.
The people who were trying to protect the encampment weren't students.
I watched most of the taking down of the encampment. The first people taken into custody looked far older than UCLA students. They were also the ones that were providing the most resistance when the authorities were trying to take down the wooden barriers.
Exactly. They weren’t all students at all. I would say 1/4 of them students, the rest were rioters, troublemakers, people looking for trouble.
Got to be gullible to think these protests are all “students” - a lot are opportunistic thugs looking to cause trouble.
The people in the encampment were students. The people between the encampment and the police were supporters who showed up after the police announced they were raiding the encampment. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 12290 Location: Pasadena, CA
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 7:02 am Post subject:
kikanga wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Partys over at the UCLA encampment.
Party? I don't know of any protestor who described their time there as a party.
lakersken80 wrote:
Guys getting taken to the paddy wagon don't look like UCLA students.
The people in the encampment were students.
The people who were trying to protect the encampment weren't students.
I watched most of the taking down of the encampment. The first people taken into custody looked far older than UCLA students. They were also the ones that were providing the most resistance when the authorities were trying to take down the wooden barriers.
Exactly. They weren’t all students at all. I would say 1/4 of them students, the rest were rioters, troublemakers, people looking for trouble.
Got to be gullible to think these protests are all “students” - a lot are opportunistic thugs looking to cause trouble.
The people in the encampment were students. The people between the encampment and the police were supporters who showed up after the police announced they were raiding the encampment.
How do you know this? I highly doubt they were all students unless you have interviewed all of them and checked ID’s. There are a lot of troublemaker opportunists out there looking to start trouble.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29648 Location: La La Land
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 7:21 am Post subject:
anth2000 wrote:
How do you know this? I highly doubt they were all students unless you have interviewed all of them and checked ID’s. There are a lot of troublemaker opportunists out there looking to start trouble.
I'm sensing goal posts moving. So you are asking are 100% of the encampment students. Are 1 or 2 of the hundreds of students in there not a student? Good question ... I guess?
Just so you know.
I was following this since the encampment was first put up. Long before last night.
I watched the students in the encampment speak to UCLA officials yesterday.
I saw the people supporting the encampment, show up yesterday (they weren't there the night before when vigilantes caused trouble, look at my summary in this thread a couple pages pack).
And most importantly, I'm not working backwards to make events fit a narrative in my head.
This situation is full of nuance.
Not all of the supporters around the encampment were bad people. Not all of the students in the encampment were good people. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 12290 Location: Pasadena, CA
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 7:25 am Post subject:
kikanga wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
How do you know this? I highly doubt they were all students unless you have interviewed all of them and checked ID’s. There are a lot of troublemaker opportunists out there looking to start trouble.
I'm sensing goal posts moving. So you are asking are 100% of the encampment students. Are 1 or 2 of the hundreds of students in there not a student? Good question ... I guess?
Just so you know.
I was following this since the encampment was first put up. Long before last night.
Because I watched the students in the encampment speak to UCLA officials yesterday.
Because the people supporting the encampment, literally starting showing up yesterday (they weren't there the night before when pro-Israel vigilantes caused trouble, look at my summary in this thread a couple pages pack).
And most importantly, I'm not working backwards to make events fit a narrative in my head.
This situation is full of nuance.
Not all of the supporters around the encampment were bad people. Not all of the students in the encampment were good people.
Understood and well said.
But, why now? What sparked things now versus 6 months ago?
Why jeopardize everything you have worked for?
How about the idiots destroying the campus? I doubt devote UCLA students would want to destroy the campus.
Again, I don’t disagree with you but I do think there are some losers among the good students that are make things bad for everyone.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29648 Location: La La Land
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 8:36 am Post subject:
anth2000 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
How do you know this? I highly doubt they were all students unless you have interviewed all of them and checked ID’s. There are a lot of troublemaker opportunists out there looking to start trouble.
I'm sensing goal posts moving. So you are asking are 100% of the encampment students. Are 1 or 2 of the hundreds of students in there not a student? Good question ... I guess?
Just so you know.
I was following this since the encampment was first put up. Long before last night.
Because I watched the students in the encampment speak to UCLA officials yesterday.
Because the people supporting the encampment, literally starting showing up yesterday (they weren't there the night before when pro-Israel vigilantes caused trouble, look at my summary in this thread a couple pages pack).
And most importantly, I'm not working backwards to make events fit a narrative in my head.
This situation is full of nuance.
Not all of the supporters around the encampment were bad people. Not all of the students in the encampment were good people.
Understood and well said.
But, why now? What sparked things now versus 6 months ago?
Why jeopardize everything you have worked for?
How about the idiots destroying the campus? I doubt devote UCLA students would want to destroy the campus.
Again, I don’t disagree with you but I do think there are some losers among the good students that are make things bad for everyone.
I think I addressed alot of your questions when talking to slav in the last few pages of this thread. And I feel bad spamming the thread saying stuff I already said. Just read back in the thread a little.
Gaza wasn't reduced to rubble 6 months ago.
The student encampment have overwhelmingly been protesting peacefully. Despite getting baited by the other side.
The student encampment isolated themselves on 2 lawns. They really didn't try to destroy the campus. They only took up enough space for their tents and their barricades.
With all that said, I'm not saying 100% of the students were good (although it's probably like 95%+) and all the supporters were bad.
The encampment people are different from the supporters who showed up yesterday on the steps and around the encampment. Those supporters were there to defend the encampment. Think of it like if you and I showed up. Cause the police said they were gonna storm Ghandi's house. And we fought the police. You don't blame Ghandi for us taking it to a level he never would.
I don't blame you for the confusion. The students were refusing to talk to the media for most of the day yesterday. So that has left open a gap for people to misunderstand. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
How do you know this? I highly doubt they were all students unless you have interviewed all of them and checked ID’s. There are a lot of troublemaker opportunists out there looking to start trouble.
I'm sensing goal posts moving. So you are asking are 100% of the encampment students. Are 1 or 2 of the hundreds of students in there not a student? Good question ... I guess?
Just so you know.
I was following this since the encampment was first put up. Long before last night.
Because I watched the students in the encampment speak to UCLA officials yesterday.
Because the people supporting the encampment, literally starting showing up yesterday (they weren't there the night before when pro-Israel vigilantes caused trouble, look at my summary in this thread a couple pages pack).
And most importantly, I'm not working backwards to make events fit a narrative in my head.
This situation is full of nuance.
Not all of the supporters around the encampment were bad people. Not all of the students in the encampment were good people.
Understood and well said.
But, why now? What sparked things now versus 6 months ago?
Why jeopardize everything you have worked for?
How about the idiots destroying the campus? I doubt devote UCLA students would want to destroy the campus.
Again, I don’t disagree with you but I do think there are some losers among the good students that are make things bad for everyone.
In many cases it’s not just now, they’ve been asking for colleges to divest for months and haven’t been listened to so it’s escalated to this. The fact that these kids are putting their own degrees, safety and freedom aside for a bigger cause is commendable and selfless.
My favorite sign I saw today was “If the encampment makes you uncomfortable, look away like you do for genocide”
WHY WERE THE PROTESTS AT BROWN UNIVERSITY DIFFERENT?
Simple - the Brown University Corporation (governing board) agreed to meet with the protesters and hear their grievances. No cops. No threats of expulsion. No barricades. No intimidation tactics. What did the students do? They packed up their stuff and went back to their dorms. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29648 Location: La La Land
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 10:13 am Post subject:
Dr. Laker wrote:
WHY WERE THE PROTESTS AT BROWN UNIVERSITY DIFFERENT?
Simple - the Brown University Corporation (governing board) agreed to meet with the protesters and hear their grievances. No cops. No threats of expulsion. No barricades. No intimidation tactics. What did the students do? They packed up their stuff and went back to their dorms.
That's the thing.
UCLA, USC, Colombia. Alot of these other universities you see on the news. Could easily have (1) done what you said and meet with the protestors before the protests/encampments started. And (2) divest.
The issue with the administrations is that they don't want to cede any ground in how they decide things. It's the principle for them. Even if you ignore the fiscal aspect (what their donors want).
Reminds me of the struggle to pay collegiate athletes who generate a ton or revenue for universities. Or how all my professors have a ton to say about administrative mismanagement whenever I grab a drink with them. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Thu May 02, 2024 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Exactly. They weren’t all students at all. I would say 1/4 of them students, the rest were rioters, troublemakers, people looking for trouble.
Got to be gullible to think these protests are all “students” - a lot are opportunistic thugs looking to cause trouble.
Many, if not most of the non-students weren't necessarily troublemakers, I'd wager to guess far from it. The students started the protests and the non-students who want Israel to leave Gaza joined. It wasn't to cause trouble, it was because the campuses have become a focal point of dissent for the media. Numbers attract attention for a cause.
The protesters are not likely "trashing" the campus either. I went through the same propaganda when I protested my school's investments in businesses that conducted operations in South Africa. Students erected shanties to demonstrate the squalid living conditions of ethnic South Africans. This upset some of the alumni during class reunions which were held on campus. One of them threw gasoline on the shanties. Fortunately, no one was sleeping there at the time, including yours truly.
I have no idea what is transpiring at UCLA or the other campuses, but I am wary of complaints that the activities disrupted classrooms, exams, or other campus activities. Furthermore, I am alarmed that the campuses have been once again under attack by the local municipal police force. The very threat of police involvement only escalates a protest into a crisis. This was the same mistake made by college administrators during the Vietnam War, and once again, time will demonstrate that they were on the wrong side of history.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90323 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 10:44 am Post subject:
Hamas attacked Israel on behalf of its controller, Iran, who itself is working with its ally Russia, exactly to foment this type of discord, among many other things. The unfortunate part of this is that Israel is led by a trumpian guy who needs to add accelerant to this fire to stay in power, thus also serving Russian interest. Hamas attacked Israel in large part so Russia could sabotage Ukraine aid and Biden’s electoral coalition. Remember that amidst all the other truths, passions, and misinformation. Our enemies here are Iran, Russia, Hamas, the GOP, and netenyahu, and the far right “settlers”. The rest of us should be on the same side, and that side should include Palestine’s civilians. And Israel’s, and Ukraine’s. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
The university wanted the encampments gone and no way they could do that with university police. Anybody who has been to a UC knows that they are not equipped for this. The students wouldn't leave and were going to stay at least until the quarter ended. I predicted that they wouldn't take down the encampments and let them tire down because after the quarter is over there isn't a lot of people left during the summer so they wouldn't get their media attention. I'm guessing because it became a center of attention for both media and outsiders that they decided to get rid of it because it became a safety issue.
Hamas attacked Israel on behalf of its controller, Iran, who itself is working with its ally Russia, exactly to foment this type of discord, among many other things. The unfortunate part of this is that Israel is led by a trumpian guy who needs to add accelerant to this fire to stay in power, thus also serving Russian interest. Hamas attacked Israel in large part so Russia could sabotage Ukraine aid and Biden’s electoral coalition. Remember that amidst all the other truths, passions, and misinformation. Our enemies here are Iran, Russia, Hamas, the GOP, and netenyahu, and the far right “settlers”. The rest of us should be on the same side, and that side should include Palestine’s civilians. And Israel’s, and Ukraine’s.
+100 _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
The university wanted the encampments gone and no way they could do that with university police. Anybody who has been to a UC knows that they are not equipped for this. The students wouldn't leave and were going to stay at least until the quarter ended. I predicted that they wouldn't take down the encampments and let them tire down because after the quarter is over there isn't a lot of people left during the summer so they wouldn't get their media attention. I'm guessing because it became a center of attention for both media and outsiders that they decided to get rid of it because it became a safety issue.
Using the police to prevent altercations would have been the high road, rather than using them as shock troops to break up protestor encampments. It was only a matter of time before the protestors would disperse. The school term is coming to an end, which would have eroded the encampments as a focal point for media coverage.
The university wanted the encampments gone and no way they could do that with university police. Anybody who has been to a UC knows that they are not equipped for this. The students wouldn't leave and were going to stay at least until the quarter ended. I predicted that they wouldn't take down the encampments and let them tire down because after the quarter is over there isn't a lot of people left during the summer so they wouldn't get their media attention. I'm guessing because it became a center of attention for both media and outsiders that they decided to get rid of it because it became a safety issue.
Using the police to prevent altercations would have been the high road, rather than using them as shock troops to break up protestor encampments. It was only a matter of time before the protestors would disperse. The school term is coming to an end, which would have eroded the encampments as a focal point for media coverage.
UCLA is on the quarter system and school doesn't end until mid June, unlike USC which operates on the semester system and ends this week. I'm guessing the administrators ran out of patience.
Hamas attacked Israel on behalf of its controller, Iran, who itself is working with its ally Russia, exactly to foment this type of discord, among many other things. The unfortunate part of this is that Israel is led by a trumpian guy who needs to add accelerant to this fire to stay in power, thus also serving Russian interest. Hamas attacked Israel in large part so Russia could sabotage Ukraine aid and Biden’s electoral coalition. Remember that amidst all the other truths, passions, and misinformation. Our enemies here are Iran, Russia, Hamas, the GOP, and netenyahu, and the far right “settlers”. The rest of us should be on the same side, and that side should include Palestine’s civilians. And Israel’s, and Ukraine’s.
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90323 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 12:12 pm Post subject:
Murdock wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Hamas attacked Israel on behalf of its controller, Iran, who itself is working with its ally Russia, exactly to foment this type of discord, among many other things. The unfortunate part of this is that Israel is led by a trumpian guy who needs to add accelerant to this fire to stay in power, thus also serving Russian interest. Hamas attacked Israel in large part so Russia could sabotage Ukraine aid and Biden’s electoral coalition. Remember that amidst all the other truths, passions, and misinformation. Our enemies here are Iran, Russia, Hamas, the GOP, and netenyahu, and the far right “settlers”. The rest of us should be on the same side, and that side should include Palestine’s civilians. And Israel’s, and Ukraine’s.
Where is China in all of this?
China is playing a third path, helping the Russians but not overtly thwarting the Americans. China benefits of Russia can drag down democracy and the west, without China having to do the heavy lifting. China seeks to not be one of two warring super powers but the emerging only one. They have some economic issues right now but that’s their long game. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
UNITED METHODIST CHURCH DIVESTS FROM ISRAEL BONDS!
That is huge! _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
This article by Time magazine is yet another instance of the failure of the mainstream media to report what Trump is planning to do?
The second part of my post answers your question. This will be forgotten in a day. The reporting has to be persistent and has to be the lead story on every network news show, every mainstream cable news show, every freaking day. That's the point I made.
Now compare this to the coverage of Biden's age that went on for months and had a deep impact on his popularity that is probably irreversible.
And the lack of coverage of the many great things he has accomplished during his term.
That's one of my pet peeves. Is there a way to get the media to accentuate his accomplishments? Do they have any influence with entities like CNN, MSN, and YAHOO? I think the administration should explore ways to bullhorn its accomplishments.
Ask and you shall receive.. It's out there you just have to look for it.. The swooning and fawning is a bit much for me, but if it's what you're into.. it's out there.. The comments on the video lead me to believe that it's not going to convince too many people.. but who knows? Also I may be wrong but doesn't Biden's former press secretary still have a show on MSNBC?
Exclusive: Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump
The senator differs with Joe Biden on Israel but says progressives need to live in the 'real world' when it comes to the choice they face in the 2024 election.
Quote:
"We can be extremely upset at the Biden administration for their policies with regard to Israel and Gaza, but the difficulty is that in the real world that you live in, you've got to take a look at a whole lot of things," he said, sitting in the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee hearing room on Capitol Hill. "On the other hand, I would hope that most of the young people and protestors do not want to see Donald Trump, who is a racist, a sexist, a homophobe who doesn't acknowledge the reality of climate change, become elected president of the United States."
He strongly criticizes Biden on Israel, but says:
Quote:
Sanders, the de facto leader of the progressive wing of the Democratic party, who has endorsed Biden says that however disenchanted the voters are the solution is not to elect a president "who admires authoritarian leaders like Putin, who's trying to undermine American democracy."
"The solution is to mobilize the American people, working-class people, Black, white, Latino, Native American, whatever they may be, to come together, to fight for a government, which represents all of us, and not just the few."
He also goes on in the article to mention Biden’s many positive accomplishments in office.
I hope some of these idealistic progressives that want to “send a message” to Biden and Democrats by not voting, protest voting or voting Trump listen to this.
Unfortunately given what I see online from a lot of young people who are raging at Biden, I’m not confident at all they come around.
Professor Allan Lichtman was on CNN. He has correctly predicted 10 of the last 11 elections. He said Biden is in the driver's seat right now. A lot would have to go wrong for him to lose at this point. He won't make his pick official until August. _________________ Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold.
Last edited by 32 on Thu May 02, 2024 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
Exclusive: Bernie Sanders worries young people are underestimating the threat from Trump
The senator differs with Joe Biden on Israel but says progressives need to live in the 'real world' when it comes to the choice they face in the 2024 election.
Quote:
"We can be extremely upset at the Biden administration for their policies with regard to Israel and Gaza, but the difficulty is that in the real world that you live in, you've got to take a look at a whole lot of things," he said, sitting in the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committee hearing room on Capitol Hill. "On the other hand, I would hope that most of the young people and protestors do not want to see Donald Trump, who is a racist, a sexist, a homophobe who doesn't acknowledge the reality of climate change, become elected president of the United States."
He strongly criticizes Biden on Israel, but says:
Quote:
Sanders, the de facto leader of the progressive wing of the Democratic party, who has endorsed Biden says that however disenchanted the voters are the solution is not to elect a president "who admires authoritarian leaders like Putin, who's trying to undermine American democracy."
"The solution is to mobilize the American people, working-class people, Black, white, Latino, Native American, whatever they may be, to come together, to fight for a government, which represents all of us, and not just the few."
He also goes on in the article to mention Biden’s many positive accomplishments in office.
I hope some of these idealistic progressives that want to “send a message” to Biden and Democrats by not voting, protest voting or voting Trump listen to this.
Unfortunately given what I see online from a lot of young people who are raging at Biden, I’m not confident at all they come around.
Most of them aren't in swing states.
But sure, some of them are.
I'm sure Biden will campaign and target the geographical areas he needs to hit. I'm sure he's looked at the internal polling on the stances he's taken and has a plan and path to victory.
He's on the right side of every issue compared to Trump. He has popular policy plans for every demographic.
And even with Gaza. Which he has been horrible on, in my eyes and the eyes of many young people. Trump is still worse.
Also Republicans have been circling the wagons behind Bibi's agenda more and more lately. It'll only increase the closer we get to November. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52713 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 6:32 pm Post subject:
32 wrote:
trmiv wrote:
Which one was he wrong about?
2000. Bush/Gore.
F^€%!#g chads. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
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